England's Summer of Cricket 2024

First topic message reminder :

Now the County Championship has begun, it is officially summer once more. Don't let the rain tell you otherwise!

We can talk about promising county performances, the build up to the World T20, and Ollie Robinson's latest injury when it happens. Then, in just under two months, England start playing games:

England v Pakistan, four T20s, 22nd May-30th May
World T20 in June
England v West Indies, three tests, 10th July-30th July
England v Sri Lanka, three tests, 21st August-10th September
England v Australia, three T20s, 11th September-15th September
England v Australia, five ODIs, 19th September-29th September

It's a bit of a pressure summer for England. The ODI side made the most disappointing defence of a World Cup crown since France in the football in 2002, so there's pressure on the T20 side, and Mott in particular, to deliver something decent in the Caribbean.

For the test match side, it's been three series without a series win for England, so the expectation is on for England to get back to winning ways against the West Indies and Sri Lanka. The West Indies often cause England a few troubles, but England have won their last seven home series v the West Indies, dating back to 2000, and you have to go back to 1988 for the last time the West Indies won a series in England.

Sri Lanka are visiting for the first time in eight years for a test series, so it's well overdue. They've certainly managed to upset England in the past, very famously in 1998, but also in 2014, so it's a series that cannot be taken for granted.

And to round off the summer the ECB are making a dash for cash, with eight limited overs games against the Aussies in the fading September light, in games that will probably be forgotten in no time at all.

Broad and Anderson leaving within the space of a year is 1,300 wickets worth of experience gone.

Shame to see another test not last three days. The mostly inexperienced West Indian top order has been rather overwhelmed.

Yeah. Inexperienced and a bit under prepared. No match for England on a pitch that gave the bowlers a bit to work with. They improved in Australia so might be better next week - especially as England will be relying on a bit less experience in their attack ! But you'd think they are going to struggle after watching this display.

Sixth wicket going down last ball of the day...so back tomorrow...

But not for long.

Nice wicket to end. Atkinson one way from ten in the match.

Probably just one session left in this. Jimmy's last.

Hope the West Indies can show some fight for the next, as in 2017, otherwise this will be a terminally dull series.

Probably a bit early to jump to it after one test, and after the WI stunned Aus, but the disparity in test cricket continues to get worse

A tame game for a neutral spectator.
Good for Eng, but dunno how much can be counted for against this abysmal Windies show..
Atkinson & Smith did what anyone can dream of on debut.
Hope WI show up & make a match out of the next game.
Little I saw of Smith his stance is weird, bat hidden behind pads, looked compact primarily front footed batter,crouches low, will do well on subcontinent pitches, might struggle on Aussie type bouncy pitches.

Just caught up on the highlights - the only thing that caught my eye was Brook’s dismissal. Trying to force a short, wide ball through mid wicket and getting a top edge. He was dismissed in a very similar way in the second innings at Edgbaston in the Ashes last year. Starc bowled one across him - short and wide - and it went up in the air trying to shovel to leg.

Only two dismissals, but wonder if it will become a ploy as Brook is unlikely to turn down playing them.

Not to diminish their performances, but some players really are lucky who they debut against. This is a very poor Windies team allowing Smith and Atkinson to ease in to Test cricket. So many players were thrown in to away Ashes, failed and were never seen again

VTR wrote:Not to diminish their performances, but some players really are lucky who they debut against. This is a very poor Windies team allowing Smith and Atkinson to ease in to Test cricket. So many players were thrown in to away Ashes, failed and were never seen again

Is a good point ; though I suppose it cuts both ways. Sometimes players impress against weak opponents and then fail to live up to it when they meet the tougher tests - so we end up with a feeling of "team
development time" being wasted. But on balance I think I'd prefer that a new prospect gets a chance to "ease in" rather than be thrown to the lions first up. Have indeed been a few one or two cap wonders who might have done better had they been given more of a chance after being smashed by a dominant force on debut.

Yeah, such as my old friend Ravi Bopara, who was a good number 3 against the Windies, but terrible in the 2009 Ashes. It wasn't his debut series, but I always felt that Carberry did not disgrace himself in the 2013/14 Ashes and deserved a few more caps

VTR wrote:Yeah, such as my old friend Ravi Bopara, who was a good number 3 against the Windies, but terrible in the 2009 Ashes. It wasn't his debut series, but I always felt that Carberry did not disgrace himself in the 2013/14 Ashes and deserved a few more caps

Didn't Carberry finish 2nd highest scorer in that series after KP? Albeit not a massive weight of runs in an awful series. And they both got jettisoned after?

Memory could be playing tricks on me though so could be completely wrong there.

Duty will know, he was in his mid 20's in 2014.

I think that's correct, and also tough runs opening the batting. You could even make a case for an unfit Boyd Rankin being unlucky to be selected in that series

alfie wrote:

VTR wrote:Not to diminish their performances, but some players really are lucky who they debut against. This is a very poor Windies team allowing Smith and Atkinson to ease in to Test cricket. So many players were thrown in to away Ashes, failed and were never seen again

Is a good point ; though I suppose it cuts both ways. Sometimes players impress against weak opponents and then fail to live up to it when they meet the tougher tests - so we end up with a feeling of "team
development time" being wasted.  But on balance I think I'd prefer that a new prospect gets a chance to "ease in" rather than be thrown to the lions first up. Have indeed been a few one or two cap wonders who might have done better had they been given more of a chance after being smashed by a dominant force on debut.

Like poor Haseeb Hameed. All ten of his tests were against India or Australia, seven of them away from home! He'd have loved to start out with a gentle home series run against the West Indies and Sri Lanka.

Gorgeous dismissal from Jimmy.

Travesty that he's being let go. He can do the whole summer and eclipse Warne, instead he's going to end up just short.

Two more for a fivefer ... my boy Smith, who you thinking about?

This seems like a nonsensical decision to me. He's either good enough to play or he's not, giving someone a test out of sentimentality is just absurd.

I think on the balance of it, the previous years of Jimmy being pretty ineffective against top opposition probably outweigh some fairly cheap wickets against an inexperienced lineup at home.

Think there is certainly room to send off our greatest ever test player though

Duty281 wrote:Gorgeous dismissal from Jimmy.

Travesty that he's being let go. He can do the whole summer and eclipse Warne, instead he's going to end up just short.

That is a shame actually. I've already said it's about time to move on, this is woeful opposition and cheap wickets. But the overall record, that will probably never be beaten, it would have been good for him to get that

And we can always argue Jimmy has more test wickets against actual countries (world XI never happened)

I think reports of Jimmy's demise are greatly exaggerated, in truth.

OK, he had a bad Ashes series, yes. But he's never done well against Australia. Career wise, he averages between 19-25 against seven test nations. 30 v South Africa. 35 v Australia.

He had the second best bowling average of any English player on the India tour (of the regular bowlers) and was the cheapest of the six regular bowlers. I think England are really going to miss the control element.

I still think he can do a full job this summer, maybe a bit over the winter, and then assess if he's got anything left for the India home series. I certainly wouldn't look to take him to Australia. But he's got more to give.

I think even visually he's just not the same bowler. It's probably time to take a look at the next group.

8 down and 10 for Atkinson in the match coincidentally

Guess Joseph must be ok, not really much point sending him out in this situation if he wasn't

Atkinson with 11! Only six people in test history have better match figures on test debut.

Swing hard Jayden

Atkinson sending those down the leg side, allowing Jimmy at least one more over.

Dropped his own chance

Nooo, Jimmy spills a caught and bowled.

That's made up my mind. Disgrace, drop him.

6 more down the leg side Gus

No big ending for Jimmy but another fifer for Atkinson. Easy this test stuff huh

Fourth best match figures for a test debutant. Fair play to Gus Atkinson.

The end for Jimmy.

Career figures of 6672.5-1730-18627-704. An average of 26.45. 32 five wicket hauls. 83 victorious tests.

But it was from 2014 that his career was truly great. Since the start of 2014 he took 364 wickets @ 22.57. He overcame early difficulties in his career to become truly great.

There will never be another like him. We can say it with fair certainty. England's greatest.

As much as anything the endurance for a fast bowler has been insane. Having Jimmy and Broad barely miss any games was an advantage England will miss immeasurably

Just a slight anti-climax as Jimmy didn't get the last wicket - oh that dropped C&B

But a thumping win ; and Atkinson has had an absolute dream debut. Though England still didn't take the tenth wicket quickly ! Some things never change...

I am with those sorry to see Jimmy finish in this rather artificial way. Understand why they did it : want to trial the next generation etc : but would prefer them, to have rotated him with Woakes through the summer , along with a couple of the next generation. Suppose they felt they would need a number eight bat ; but watching them both bowl in this game I wonder if the choice looks a bit debateable now ? Anyway , all done and I am at least glad he finished with a win and some good figures. Should have a fine future as the bowling coach if he wants it : for now , relax and enjoy the applause for a great career Jimmy

Nice tribute at the end by various players and family.

Graeme Swann looks like a maths teacher now. Pietersen hasn't changed.

Numerous fantastic dismissals, but my favourite is the one that dismissed Clarke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpEhjPftFYw

guildfordbat wrote:Two more for a fivefer ... my boy Smith, who you thinking about?

In all seriousness, I thought Smith had a fine game, albeit against very poor opposition and thus in undemanding circumstances. His ability to start calmly with the bat and up the tempo later was what I've witnessed for Surrey and was hoping with more than some belief that he could transfer to the Test arena. However, I was surprised and impressed by his tidy keeping. Lovely catch off an inside edge to get started in the West Indies' first innings.

He's 24 today as it happens. Nice birthday for him.

Jimmy Anderson is the best seamer I have seen, at par with Richard Hadlee.
Best not on swing, not not on pace, but seam movement, the precision & control of it.
Going further back might throw some names but the discount for "uncovered era" applies.

Among his contemporaries Zaheer khan, Shami, Mohd Asif, Hazelwood and a few other have had purples patches of seam movement skill.....but none came close to accuracy & skill for such a prolonged period.

Is it right to push him out with an eye on future & Ashes where he is predicted to be ineffective?

I think many countries discount home wins...more than they should.
I think there can be home specialist bowlers and give an odd game overseas in seaming conditions.

This Reduces the home workload on other "faster, hit the deck bowlers" who are deemed suited for overseas conditions.

I think if an athlete is fit, performing in FC & internationals, he should be allowed to play as long as he can perform.

It was a joy watching Anderson, India's most dreaded opponent, wish him well in life beyond

guildfordbat wrote: ...

He's [Jamie Smith] 24 today as it happens. Nice birthday for him.

Alfie (in particular) and all - And Larry Gomes has his 71st birthday tomorrow. How the West Indies could do now with some
of that batting application he regularly displayed in his prime years.

Shame it was a fairly low key ending, over tame opposition, compared to Broad. Perhaps could've rotated with Woakes as the home specialist but guess they wanted a send off now rather than risking fitness/weather

In truth not really a lot England can take away from this given how the WIs performed. Hopefully a bit more competitive at Trent Bridge

A moving post match interview there, Jimmy just about keeping it together. Emotional stuff. One of the great constants of sport through my life has gone. Seems very surreal.

Pennington and Potts in for the second test, Woakes and Anderson out?

Was guessing Woakes might be retained just to keep it from being Stokes as the lone experienced seamer. Pennington might have a chance at his home ground

Was looking at the list of top wicket takers.
Anderson and Warne are almost identical in Balls / wkt SR.......means Warne bowled almost same overs as Anderson did in 40 more tests.

The freak 3 in the list of top wicket takers with ~270 or more are
Steyn SR 42, Waqar SR43, Rabada SR39

Then you have Marshal SR 46, Cummins SR 46, Starc SR 48, Donald SR 47
also quite dominant

Bottom-line.....if they looked menacing, they were a menace.

KP_fan wrote:Was looking at the list of top wicket takers.
Anderson and Warne are almost identical in Balls / wkt SR.......means Warne bowled almost same overs as Anderson did in 40 more tests.

The freak 3 in the list of top wicket takers with ~270 or more are
Steyn SR 42, Waqar SR43, Rabada SR39

Then you have Marshal SR 46,  Cummins SR 46, Starc SR 48, Donald SR 47
also quite dominant

Bottom-line.....if they looked menacing, they were a menace.

Rabada's record is outstanding, but in only 62 tests. I suspect Waqar's record was that good if you exclude the last 20 tests of his career (where he was somewhat diminehed by injury). The other player whose career stats don't quite show how good he was when fully fit is Botham, who was only half the bowler when he came back from his serious back injury - OK, a slight cherry pick as his stats tailed off somewhat even before the injury, but at the end of the 81 Ashes, Beefy had taken 202 wickets at 21. and a sr of 48.

Duty281 wrote:

There will never be another like him. We can say it with fair certainty. England's greatest.

Absolutely, Dooty.

We can argue over our greatest batsman, greatest team, greatest captain etc but one argument is done. Our finest ever bowler. Wonderful player, wonderful human and genuine inspiration. Legend gets bandied around too much but Jimmy deserves that accolade.

Hearing all the lovely comments after, the ovations, his families happiness when he took his final wicket was a beautiful thing.

If I wasn't northern, I may well have shed a tear or two.

Duty281 wrote:A moving post match interview there, Jimmy just about keeping it together. Emotional stuff. One of the great constants of sport through my life has gone. Seems very surreal.

Pennington and Potts in for the second test, Woakes and Anderson out?

Think they'll keep Woakes in - will want at least some serious experience , and a number eight bat. Have heard some thoughts that Potts could bat eight ; seems a bit high to me. Pity Bashir is a 10/11 , unlike Hartley or Rehan , who would be alternate spin options.

Yes was "moving" in more ways than one yesterday. Baton passed to Atkinson ; Jimmy leaving the stage for the last time. Think he'd have preferred to get off a bit quicker and be with his family ; but he doubtless appreciated the honours being accorded him , and handled it very well. Class right to the end

Duty281 wrote:I think reports of Jimmy's demise are greatly exaggerated, in truth.

OK, he had a bad Ashes series, yes. But he's never done well against Australia. Career wise, he averages between 19-25 against seven test nations. 30 v South Africa. 35 v Australia.

He had the second best bowling average of any English player on the India tour (of the regular bowlers) and was the cheapest of the six regular bowlers. I think England are really going to miss the control element.

I still think he can do a full job this summer, maybe a bit over the winter, and then assess if he's got anything left for the India home series. I certainly wouldn't look to take him to Australia. But he's got more to give.

Kind of weird his record against the Aussies - he had that magnificent and key role in the away series win down under in 2010/11, and then never really had another memorable moment after that against them, in fact more painful ones (like missing 2019!).

Tend to think Broad has the more memorable moments and spells (mainly because of what he did vs Aussies) whereas Jimmy was just more relentlessly and consistently world class. Lucky to have witnessed both, and losing them in back to back home tests is going to present a huge hurdle for England to overcome.

One thing that will help and was evident this test - Stokes bowling again. Thought he looked as good as ever, maybe a mph or two down on his younger days…but his ability to form a true four man seam attack will be huge over the next two years

Woods been added to the squad for TB, odd because I wouldn't figure he's got much chance of playing ordinarily

GSC wrote:Woods been added to the squad for TB, odd because I wouldn't figure he's got much chance of playing ordinarily

Pace bowler to replace pace bowler ? If conditions are anything similar you'd wonder if there is much point in picking the spinner against this West Indies line-up. But I would also expect Wood to be held back for the time being while they try Pennington or give Potts another (deserved !) go.

Yeah it's a shame we didn't see Bashir at Lords. Motie was the pick of WI bowlers so would've been interesting to see what Bashir could've offered on the same track

This was one of the most depressing Tests I've seen at Lord's in the last 50 years and that includes some thrashings by Australia and others.

It gave me the blues due to its utter predictability and uncompetitiveness. There was no tension at all. Whisper it, but even with the emotional Jimmy send-off it was....boring.

Let's hope for better in the SL Tests later.

sirfredperry wrote:This was one of the most depressing Tests I've seen at Lord's in the last 50 years and that includes some thrashings by Australia and others.

It gave me the blues due to its utter predictability and uncompetitiveness. There was no tension at all. Whisper it, but even with the emotional Jimmy send-off it was....boring.

Let's hope for better in the SL Tests later.

I agree, but I'm hopeful that the West Indies show fight in the second test. In 2017, they were blown away in the first test by an innings and 209 runs, but they came back in the second to win at Headingley, chasing down 322.