UEFA Euro 2024

First topic message reminder :

It's coming up. Who are you supporting? Who do you think will win? Who gets the golden boot?

How you feeling for your teams chances? I'm not massively into international footy but a tournament is always a laugh.

I have France winning the lot. Maybeee Kane for golden boot. Yeah that'll do. I'll be supporting The Netherlands I reckon.

GSC wrote:The only player in this team who doesn't receive the ball, stand still then pass backwards is pickford

I'd rather he did pass backwards because it would be a vast improvement on the f*cking sh*te forward passes he 'attempts'.

Well that was fun. Not.
Same old same old, score a goal then sit back and hope to defend it. Denmark better team and draw a good result for England.
Ok should hopefully qualify but confidence even among players must be low let alone us fans

Watched Spain and Italy : surprised it didn't end up about 8-nil , Spain so totally dominant. Took an Italian to put the ball into his own net for the only actual goal ; but if not for some wayward finishing, and the excellence of the Italian keeper, this would have been a massacre. Which probably indicates Italy will now go on to win the whole thing

Have seen too many WC and Euros to get too excited about what happens in the group games. Knockouts are where it starts to really mean something. That said , I was seriously impressed by Spain (bar the finishing) ; think Germany at home are likely to give this a real shake : and so far slightly bemused as to why so many people seem to have had England as nominal favourites before the tournament.

Which brings me to the inevitable questions of what the devil was wrong with England last night ? Leaving aside all the predictable "Southgate out !" stuff (can mount valid criticisms of the manager ; but does anyone seriously think he instructs his players to play in that nervous and untidy fashion , avoid attacking the goal and continually lose the ball in midfield ?) If you can't string three passes together it matters not where players are positioned : sooner or later the side with the ball will likely make you pay. End of the day they're fortunate to concede just the one equalizing goal ; but a better opponent would surely have buried them on that showing.

Now I haven't seen as much of England recently as most on here ; but after hearing so much talk of what wonderful attacking options they have I am seriously wondering what I'm missing. Apart from the actual early goals in each match they've hardly looked capable of scoring. The much hyped Foden got plenty more ball in this one but apart from one good strike that hit the post he just wasted scoring opportunities (think there was one time he could have supplied Kane but chose to shoot himself and was again off target) Bellingham had a shocker , as did Rice ; Kane mostly invisible and even Saka less effective than in game one. I get they were a bit frustrated with the sub-standard pitch but it really can't account for that awful display. To be fair , should give some credit to Denmark for a very good defence but still...

Think the TAA experiment is probably over . So either Gallagher comes in from the start or Bellingham moves and one of these miracle workers comes in off the bench to solve all the problems up forward Will be interested to see how it all goes but if I am getting up at 2am for these games have to hope for something rather more inspiring !

I'd start with that England had 3/4 players marking Rasmus Hojlund. Saw him play for United last season, looks a fine prospect but if Stones and Guehi can't handle him as a lone striker what's gonna happen when we run into some of the attackers the best teams can unleash?

Leaves Rice and TAA pinned to the edge of their own area and then invited both Serbia and Denmark to push players up field, cut off the options and force England to either go long or attempt something risky. And going long was Kane against 3 big CBs. Gotta take the handbrake off and push Rice etc higher up field. This approach barely worked against Serbia, didn't work against Denmark and absolutely won't work against top teams.

Even for the Denmark goal, England have a throw in inside their own half and Trent ends up stood next to Stones/Walker on the edge of the area when their player has a free shot from 30 yards.

I really thought France at the world cup would've taught Gareth to win these games he has to be prepared to lose it. But we're back to ultra cautious, safety first and to be honest scared approach.

Kane hinted post match that those were to tactics, to defend rather than attack.
England again really poor, OK pitch was terrible but same for both teams but passing accuracy was woeful at times.
After scoring earlish, pretty much any other team would press on and attack to get another but every time England go into shells and try and hold on.
They then become nervous which totally affects confidence and hence start making errors.
Only bright light was Guehi who again had a good game. TAA no, Foden slightly better(not hard) from Serbia game but again not good.
Stones doesn't look fully fit. Bellingham unfortunately spends more time on his backside than feet and going over far too easily looking for a free kick.
All through his tenure I have defended Southgate but even I am now having doubts. How can this much talent not be playing better?

"Hopefully that is the "bad game" out of the way !" - well it's two bad games, actually. England just got away with it v Serbia because Serbia lacked creators and finishers, unlike Denmark.

"and so far slightly bemused as to why so many people seem to have had England as nominal favourites before the tournament." - Not sure about favourites, I thought/think the French are, but England have perhaps the second best squad overall in the tournament. Main issue is being led by Southgate, a Championship manager.

"but does anyone seriously think he instructs his players to play in that nervous and untidy fashion , avoid attacking the goal" Yes. Because Southgate is almost always negative, and safety first. See also, England v Croatia 2018 (England go one up and hang on for dear life). England v Denmark 2021 (England go one up and hang on for dear life). England v Italy 2021 (England go one up and hang on for dear life). England v Serbia 2024 (England go one up and hang on for dear life).

England's best tournament performance under Southgate was v France in 2022, but that was likely only because England never took the lead in that game.

"but after hearing so much talk of what wonderful attacking options they have I am seriously wondering what I'm missing." You're not missing anything, this is just England under Southgate. Badly coached, negatively instructed, tactics all wrong. Confidence likely shot to pieces by being led by someone so negative.  They need to be led by a manager of PL quality who knows how to get the best out of his players, not someone who thinks playing Trippier or Trent out of position is viable, or that taking a one goal lead is the signal to dig a trench and defend.

Southgate has been the luckiest England manager I've ever seen. An amazing squad, has had the best injury free run related to any key players of any England manager I can recall, has had some astonishingly generous draws (Sweden and Ukraine in QFs! Tunisia and Panama and Iran and Wales in group stages!), a very kind press, the penalty dice have fallen his way, plus he had a (mostly) home tournament. And from all of that, who has Southgate managed to beat in 90 minutes at major tournaments...Panama, Tunisia, Sweden, 2020 Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany (those last three all at home), Ukraine, Iran, Wales, Senegal, Serbia. What a list.

If the penalty win over Colombia doesn't happen, the bizarre love in with Southgate doesn't happen, and England move on to someone better for Euro 2020. And it's a much better world.

GSC wrote:I'd start with that England had 3/4 players marking Rasmus Hojlund. Saw him play for United last season, looks a fine prospect but if Stones and Guehi can't handle him as a lone striker what's gonna happen when we run into some of the attackers the best teams can unleash?

Leaves Rice and TAA pinned to the edge of their own area and then invited both Serbia and Denmark to push players up field, cut off the options and force England to either go long or attempt something risky. And going long was Kane against 3 big CBs. Gotta take the handbrake off and push Rice etc higher up field. This approach barely worked against Serbia, didn't work against Denmark and absolutely won't work against top teams.

Even for the Denmark goal, England have a throw in inside their own half and Trent ends up stood next to Stones/Walker on the edge of the area when their player has a free shot from 30 yards.

I really thought France at the world cup would've taught Gareth to win these games he has to be prepared to lose it. But we're back to ultra cautious, safety first and to be honest scared approach.

Yes, I allowed myself to believe it as well. I thought with this likely being Southgate's last tournament, he was taking the handbrake off, a belief bolstered by some strong squad calls in omitting names like Grealish, Rashford, Maguire and Henderson. Forgoing reputation and picking on form, in many cases.

But here we are. Oh well.

I've always thought Maguire been good in an England shirt, he gets so much abuse but I'd love him to be back in side now!
Grealish too much of a luxury player I think, looks fantastic at times but doesn't produce consistently enough.
Rashford a tricky one as I rate him and would he have been worse than what we're seeing now?
Henderson past it.

Anyway, none of those in squad so that's it.

Just have to see what team picked for Slovenia game. Hopefully not same!

Not picking a fit left back does look like a glaring omission. Grealish and Rashford didn't deserve to make the squad on merit so I don't really fault that. ideally get Wharton in the team and tell Rice to stop playing CB and I think we move the ball better and further upfield

If and when Luke Shaw is fit to play that will/should make a big difference. Aside from his ability it would make for better balance in team. Issue is lack of football.

To be honest the only change I would make is getting an actual centre mid in for Trent. I don't like Trippier at LB, but if Shaw isn't fit, there's nothing that can be done. I'm fine with the other personnel. Foden was improved yesterday, though lacked an end product.

Main thing is to have a higher defensive line (there's no Maguire to accommodate) and press more. When in possession, don't be afraid to narrow the shape in your own half if the opposition are pressing high as a means to retain the ball. I'd like to see Stones and Rice coming out with the ball a little more. It's fine if Kane drops deep, but he needs to remain central. There were times yesterday when his position was as a wide player. And there needs to be more players gambling with runs in behind when Kane drops deep. Saka makes those lateral runs down one flank, but there's no reason why he can't make diagonal runs when Kane is luring a central defender out.

Slovenia are not as good in attack as the Danes, but they are a well organised unit with a top quality keeper and will be tough to break down. England barely created a chance yesterday. The goal came from a deflected cross. Have to be loads better.

If the worst happens and England lose, they should still go through as the 3rd placed team (possibly against Portugal or Belgium in the L16). A draw opens it up for Denmark to pinch first place, and if that happens then England are running headlong into a last 16 game with...Germany.

Need to win. Need to do better.

Be tempted to drop Foden for Eze. Not having genuine width on the left is making us predictable. Trippier at LB is fine with a genuine winger ahead of him but Foden wants to start wide and drift into the 10 spot. And Jude is a better 10.

Pickford
Walker-Stones-Guehi-Trippier
Rice-Wharton
Saka-Bellingham-Eze
Kane

Be my XI. Possibly play Watkins for Kane if we think some rest will do him good before the knockout ties

I'm all for resting a few big players for the Slovenia game seeing as we pretty much qualify as group winners with a draw, but assuming we don't, our best (available) side is this;


And have Kane, Bellingham and Saka off the bench if needed

Marky wrote:I'm all for resting a few big players for the Slovenia game seeing as we pretty much qualify as group winners with a draw, but assuming we don't, our best (available) side is this;

Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi Trippier
Bellingham Rice
Saka Foden Gordon
Kane

I'd play;
Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi Trippier
Mainoo Rice
Bowen Foden Gordon
Watkins

And have Kane, Bellingham and Saka off the bench if needed

Bellingham alongside Rice is a waste of time, he's competent as a genuine central midfielder but he's world class playing further up the field. Anthony Gordon prefers cutting inside from the left so ends up taking the same space that the man in the centre does and without Shaw overlapping makes it easy for a team to defend their right flank.

The major issue the team has is the lack of a genuine left back who can overlap.

It's great seeing just how incompetent our refs are shown up on an European stage

Cagey game. Means that if both Netherlands and France win their final game then 1st place will be settled on goal difference (Currently tied). If France come second in their group they'll go in the top half of the draw. And England's path if they finish second in the group will be a truly monstrous Germany/Spain/France/final in that scenario.

So, no talk of resting players. England need to beat Slovenia and win this group.

Belgium v Romania is an interesting match up tomorrow. Belgium bidding to bounce back, while Romania were very impressive v Ukraine in the first game. Also got Turkey v Portugal, which is going to be utter filth.

“We are not pressing well enough, with enough ­intensity,” Southgate said. “We have limitations in how we can do that with the physical condition. We can’t press as high up the pitch as we might have done in the ­qualifiers, for example. And we are not keeping the ball well enough. We have to keep the ball better and build with more control.”

Southgate whinging about the physical condition of his players. You'd think England were the only team whose players had a long club season.

GSC wrote:It's great seeing just how incompetent our refs are shown up on an European stage

Clear offside, if you're that close to the keeper you are always interfering with play.

Big game for Scotland tonight.

Win and they should be through to the KO stages for the first time ever. Lose and it's another tournament of falling at the first hurdle. Draw and they're probably out, but not definitely (highlights what a nonsense of a format it is, if a team gets two points from nine and advances).

Scotland Hungary set up for some last 10 minutes carnage since neither team looks capable of scoring

Got the 10 minutes of carnage and Hungary won it in the 99th minute. Might be enough for them to go through. Had probably the better chances (such that Scotland had many at all).

Think the ref got the penalty decision right tbh. Armstrong goes looking for contact rather than shooting weirdly imo.

Deserved for Hungary. Scotland had a lot of the ball, but no creativity or incision. The only time they looked like scoring was when Hungary started to come out aggressively as both teams searched for a late winner (great to see for a neutral!).

Don't get the fuss about the potential Scotland penalty. Armstrong gets himself into an awkward position trying to shield the ball from Orban, and then falls over. A much clearer penalty shout was in the first half when a Hungarian got a full on forearm/elbow in the face after a corner kick.

More disappointment for Scotland. I think that's 12 group stage exits out of 12 tournaments now. Astonishing record. But they just didn't do anything at this tournament and only scored one goal themselves in three matches, so they can have no complaints. There should be questions about why they fail to produce more top class players, and I hope qualifying for the last two Euros (due mainly to tournament expansion rather than Scottish improvement) doesn't delude their FA into thinking everything is rosy.

Hungary might make it through to the last 16, I think it looks probable after a quick look at the groups, but are unlikely to get much further. Germany secured top spot in the group, though only after a 92nd minute equaliser. Would have upset the draw's balance if they came second! Switzerland v Italy is looking like the first Last 16 game we can confirm.

When Grant Hanley is your most effective attacking threat, it's for the best for everyone that you head home and stop embarrassing the competition

The week of 2pm kickoffs was too short

Gallagher for Trent apparently. More energy but gotta play higher up the pitch than we have

Gallagher was a bit headless off the bench v Denmark, but it's absolutely right to get him (or anyone) in for Trent.

Just want to see England play well. It's not too much to ask for with this team. Move the ball a bit quicker, more movement from Bellingham, Rice or Gallagher to advance up the pitch during an attack, some diagonal runs in behind from Foden and Saka, and Kane to remain central.

Most importantly, if England go one up, please don't sit back. Go and get a second. Don't be afraid to press the opposition.

A win is very important. Finish second, as is probable with a draw, and it's Germany in the L16 and a very tough fixture. Win and England get a third placed team, so a little more time to find their way into the tournament. Get through that and it's a probable QF against Italy.

Wild minute between Croatia/Italy. Donnarumma saves from a Modric penalty, Italy fail to clear, a glanced poke at goal from a subsequent cross is denied by another great save from Donnarumma, only for Modric to get instant redemption on the rebound.

1-0. Croatia in 2nd with 33 minutes to play.

Two bang average sides honestly. Italy get out of jail in the 98th minute. Hard to take from Croatia but can't really argue they've ever looked good enough to progress. 2 points and -3 GD unlikely to be enough. Good news for Hungary though, and Scotland that the draw was never enough anyway.

Italy rescue it with a last minute equaliser, probably sending Croatia out. Very nice finish for that equaliser.

It was a quite pedestrian, error-strewn game. Croatia bungled numerous promising positions to double their advantage, which they'll be regretting now. Italy will play Switzerland in the last 16, and the winners of that might face England, if England can top the group and win their L16 encounter.

Would also add there was a very basic error by the referee. Italy scored with 40 seconds of the added time remaining, but the referee blew for full time as soon as Croatia kicked off. Croatia should have had a chance for a speculative punt up the field.

That was probably Modric's last game at a major international tournament, also.

In fact Croatia are pretty much guaranteed to be out unless Denmark or Slovenia get pumped and the Czech Republic/Georgia both lose. From what we've seen of England it feels unlikely on at least one front

Duty281 wrote:Italy rescue it with a last minute equaliser, probably sending Croatia out. Very nice finish for that equaliser.

It was a quite pedestrian, error-strewn game. Croatia bungled numerous promising positions to double their advantage, which they'll be regretting now. Italy will play Switzerland in the last 16, and the winners of that might face England, if England can top the group and win their L16 encounter.

Would also add there was a very basic error by the referee. Italy scored with 40 seconds of the added time remaining, but the referee blew for full time as soon as Croatia kicked off. Croatia should have had a chance for a speculative punt up the field.

That was probably Modric's last game at a major international tournament, also.

I thought that the ref was supposed to add the time for the goal celebrations and teams to get back into position, so yes Croatia should have had one last 'cavalry charge' attack from the kick off.

I have Italy in the sweep stake, so glad they got through, but God they were a dull watch at least until Chiesa came on. Good finish for the goal, but why did the Croatian central defender follow the Italian into midfield, meaning the right back had to cover in and leave the space out wide? Last minute of the game, just hold the two lines in defence.

Netherlands and France should be sorting out 1st and 2nd place between them today. Both currently tied on four points, and tied on GD, Netherlands are ahead by goals scored. The Dutch play Austria, while the French have the easier game against Poland.

Whoever comes second in that group will be joining Spain, Germany and Portugal in a very crowded top half, and it's the same situation for England's group also.

Actually, maybe Austria want to take first place? They're one up against the Dutch at HT. A messy game with not much midfield play, and both teams have spurned numerous good chances since the own goal.

France currently 0-0 v Poland.

Means Austria on 6 points, France on 5 and Netherlands on 4, as things stand.

Austria top the group and hard to say it isn't on merit.

The Dutch will be England's last 16 tie if they top the group, haven't looked up to much more than we have in this tournament

Wow, France draw and Austria win in a hectic game.

Means France go to the congested top half. Austria the bottom half. If England top their group, it's opened up again for Southgate. Probable routes:

Win the group = 3rd placed team, Switzerland/Italy, Belgium/Austria SF, F
Second in the group = Germany, Spain, France/Portugal, final

Win tonight, it's another great chance for Southgate. It's like Euro 2020, with one half stacked and the other half a lot lighter. And England can be in the lighter side, just like three years ago.

GSC wrote:Austria top the group and hard to say it isn't on merit.

The Dutch will be England's last 16 tie if they top the group, haven't looked up to much more than we have in this tournament

Is that confirmed? Wiki saying it could be D, E or F's third placed team. Dutch would be the toughest prospect, most likely.

Austria!! Wowsers

Maybe not confirmed, saw it mentioned but can't find it now

Yeah, I've just looked on wiki again and there's five scenarios left possible if England top the group. Two of them involve England playing the Dutch, two of them involve playing the third placed team in Group E, and one where England play the third placed team in Group F.

What a daft system it is. At least the inevitable expansion to 32 teams will make the format clearer!

Until it expands to 48 and England play either the third best team in group AD or the 4th placed team in their own group

Honestly...5 mins in and you had Pickford screaming to push out his defensive line....having had a throw in 20 yards from Slovenia goal within 20 seconds it was back on our 18yrd box...then 2 mins later Kane is 40yards deeper than striker should be, trying to spray a nothing ball across to right wing. 3 mins of everything thats wrong with this England team.

Slovenia better chances & look like an actual team!

And im sick of hearing about "Southgate has brought many great moments"..."this team has shown how they can play".....when?! He brought the nation together and the team absolutely no doubt. But the football throughout his tenure has been turgid!

Lot of angst in this England team. Lot of gesturing and shouting at each other. A sign of an unhappy, disjointed team.

Has been a crap thirty minutes, again. So much ball, but so much of it is slow. Lot of play down the left, however Trippier's presence slows it all up. Gallagher's positioning is atrocious. Bellingham and Walker, a lot of substandard passing.

Slovenia look smoother when in possession. Wonder if they'll back themselves a little more?

Maybe a little harsh? Some wayward passing the biggest threat so far. Perked up since the disallowed goal. playing higher up the pitch. Slovenia happy to sit in and frustrate

That said Kane looks like a man with a bad back

Well considering Foden and Bellingham are meant to be the greatest human beings ever to kick a football...they haven't done much this tournament

Pedestrian, turgid stuff once again. Foden the only one with his head up and looking to influence proceedings. Otherwise it's just static, sideways passing. So many basic errors being committed. Rice and Gallagher failing to link up with the attack. Gallagher is often just standing still surrounded by four Slovenians, and when he does get the ball he's always looking for the safe option.

Walker providing no support to Saka. Kane frequently in the wide areas. Bellingham's passing has been so poor.

When Slovenia have had possession, England, yet again, don't press and instead sink very deep. Slovenia look better in possession. You see a better tempo, players trying diagonal runs, moving into little pockets of space....then you see what England do. They've hit some nice crosses as well, have Slovenia, just not got on the end of one just yet.

Good change from Southgate, getting Gallagher off for Mainoo and doing it instantly, rather than waiting ten minutes.

Much better since the break. Mainoo adding so much already.

Who knew playing a more forward thinking natural midfielder rather than defensive/work horse...and then natural wide man/winger would help balance team & make them look better

Southgate just two changes in 83 minutes with that bench.

Great, bring Gordon on in the 90th minute.