UEFA Euro 2024

by Lee Mon 10 Jun 2024, 10:56 am

First topic message reminder :

It's coming up. Who are you supporting? Who do you think will win? Who gets the golden boot?

How you feeling for your teams chances? I'm not massively into international footy but a tournament is always a laugh.

I have France winning the lot. Maybeee Kane for golden boot. Yeah that'll do. I'll be supporting The Netherlands I reckon.

by **owen10ozzy** Tue 25 Jun 2024, 9:48 pm

Its mental isnt it....

149 goals between Kane, Saka, Bowen, Foden, Watkins, Palmer last season (thanks randomer on bbc) and this is what we produce.

Southgates man management cant be questioned; his tactical nous, ability to read & change a game can and always has as far as im concerned. As i said earlier....overall its all very ordinary and very easy to play against. Netherlands may have lost to Austria but i expect them to deal with us ...as have most of the "bigger" teams have whenever we've come up against them under Southgate.

by **owen10ozzy** Tue 25 Jun 2024, 9:53 pm

If Southgate chooses to go into the next game just changing 1 player then he deserves to be sacked on the spot and it would confirm he's watching completely different thing out on the pitch to what everyone else is.

by Jimmy Moz Tue 25 Jun 2024, 9:54 pm

England got out of the group I guess so job done. Didn't quite look like the mighty all powerful conquering world beaters they say they are.

by Duty281 Tue 25 Jun 2024, 9:58 pm

Just dreadful stuff. A little bright spell between 45 and 60 minutes which soon evaporated.

Southgate, utterly clueless once again. A bench of that quality and he only makes two changes in 80 minutes?! Bellingham, Kane, Foden absolutely knackered and ineffectual past 70 minutes. I can see it, you can see it, but Southgate can't. Let's bring Gordon on in the 90th minute, because that's definitely time enough to change things!

England have topped the group, which says more about the group than anything else.

And Southgate is once again the God of Luck. Avoided all of France, Spain, Germany and Portugal just like that. Probably going to get a p!ss easy route of Ukraine, Switzerland and Turkey to the final, avoiding all the heavyweights just like Euro 2020, England will scrape through every single game and we'll have to hear sh!te about how Southgate is the best since Sir Alf...before the inevitable loss to a top team.

A true golden generation of talent being squandered under this clown. Should have been sacked long ago, but he's luckier than a horseshoe.

by Duty281 Tue 25 Jun 2024, 9:59 pm

Jimmy Moz wrote:England got out of the group I guess so job done. Didn't quite look like the mighty all powerful conquering world beaters they say they are.

I don't recall anyone saying they're 'mighty all powerful conquering world beaters', or anything close.

by Duty281 Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:04 pm

Denmark finishing above Slovenia thanks to their qualifying record, which is quite something. Shocked

England will play third place in Group E (any of Romania/Belgium/Slovakia/Ukraine) if the third placed teams from C, D, E and F are the ones who make it. That requires, most probably as I'm discounting Georgia, a Czech Republic win over Turkey by one or two goals. Anything else and it's England v Netherlands. I think.

by Jimmy Moz Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:09 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Jimmy Moz wrote:England got out of the group I guess so job done. Didn't quite look like the mighty all powerful conquering world beaters they say they are.

I don't recall anyone saying they're 'mighty all powerful conquering world beaters', or anything close.

Never mind. Throw a couple of plastic chairs, sing anti-Scottish songs and that German bomber song and that will cheer the nation after a few pints of Carling.

by GSC Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:15 pm

Well it's typical Southgate ball in the groups. Feels a much bigger ask to raise it from this base than they have before

This was fine-ish, very end of season international friendly against a side that set up for a point. But rather damned themselves by the standards of the last 2 games.

by Duty281 Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:30 pm

Jimmy Moz wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Jimmy Moz wrote:England got out of the group I guess so job done. Didn't quite look like the mighty all powerful conquering world beaters they say they are.

I don't recall anyone saying they're 'mighty all powerful conquering world beaters', or anything close.
Never mind. Throw a couple of plastic chairs, sing anti-Scottish songs and that German bomber song and that will cheer the nation after a few pints of Carling.

Right, so it wasn't said then.

by Duty281 Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:32 pm

GSC wrote:Well it's typical Southgate ball in the groups. Feels a much bigger ask to raise it from this base than they have before

This was fine-ish, very end of season international friendly against a side that set up for a point. But rather damned themselves by the standards of the last 2 games.

It was probably the worst I've seen of England in the groups under Southgate. The other three tournaments generally had something going for it in at least one of the games, and there was usually one rubbish performance thrown in (Belgium, Scotland, USA). This has been three rubbish performances.

If it is the Netherlands it's going to be a big struggle. Maybe England will be better against more expansive opposition, but with the disjointed state of the defence and the lack of energy in the press...maybe not.

by Jimmy Moz Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Jimmy Moz wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Jimmy Moz wrote:England got out of the group I guess so job done. Didn't quite look like the mighty all powerful conquering world beaters they say they are.

I don't recall anyone saying they're 'mighty all powerful conquering world beaters', or anything close.
Never mind. Throw a couple of plastic chairs, sing anti-Scottish songs and that German bomber song and that will cheer the nation after a few pints of Carling.

Right, so it wasn't said then.

No it wasn't said. Same as the King who the English sing about in the national anthem. His brother never met that 17 year old girl even though he paid her millions of pounds while staying with a convicted sex offender that he knew was a convicted sex offender laughing

by GSC Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:41 pm

Maybe. Be struggling to tell you the Dutch have been much better in truth. Gakpo a handful but not a lot else

by GSC Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:42 pm

I dunno what you're trying to achieve, but much like Scotland, I think it's time for you to vacate the euros thread having offered nothing of value

by Jimmy Moz Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:46 pm

GSC wrote:I dunno what you're trying to achieve, but much like Scotland, I think it's time for you to vacate the euros thread having offered nothing of value

I'll decide when I leave this thread. Anyway, "It's only a bit of 'bantz'" as the English would say.
Hug

by Jimmy Moz Tue 25 Jun 2024, 10:51 pm

Just saw a video on Facebook of England fans trying to pelt Gareth Southgate with plastic cups. He should be grateful. The only cups he is going to get his hands on Wink

by Duty281 Tue 25 Jun 2024, 11:03 pm

Big incentive to win Group E tomorrow. Runners up get to go in the nightmare top half with France awaiting you in the L16. But a group win gets you a nice third placed team, followed by a QF against either Austria or Turkey or the Czechs.

All four teams tied on three points in Group E going into tomorrow.

by Soul Requiem Wed 26 Jun 2024, 8:15 am

Jimmy Moz wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Jimmy Moz wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Jimmy Moz wrote:England got out of the group I guess so job done. Didn't quite look like the mighty all powerful conquering world beaters they say they are.

I don't recall anyone saying they're 'mighty all powerful conquering world beaters', or anything close.
Never mind. Throw a couple of plastic chairs, sing anti-Scottish songs and that German bomber song and that will cheer the nation after a few pints of Carling.

Right, so it wasn't said then.
No it wasn't said. Same as the King who the English sing about in the national anthem. His brother never met that 17 year old girl even though he paid her millions of pounds while staying with a convicted sex offender that he knew was a convicted sex offender

Not taken getting knocked out at the group stage very well I see.

by Duty281 Wed 26 Jun 2024, 8:38 am

"I understand the narrative towards me and that's better for the team than it being towards them," he added.

"But it is creating an unusual environment to operate in. I've not seen any other team qualify and receive similar. "

Southgate talking his usual rubbish. Seems baffled as to why supporters would be unhappy with a team of this quality scoring just two goals in 270 minutes.

'But we've qualified, lads!' retorts Southgate, who seems to think he's in charge of some minnow nation and should be warmly applauded for leading England through the group. Southgate then had the audacity to claim he's made England fun to watch again, when the majority of games under his leadership have been a painful watch. Especially the last three.

England's 2.26 expected goals from the three games ranked 19th among the 24 teams at the competition and they have only mustered the 17th most shots.

The Three Lions misfired again in Cologne against Slovenia, yet a defiant Southgate insisted "things are starting to come together" for his side.

"We have created some good openings and, at the moment, it is hard work for us," he told ITV Sport. Doh

This campaign is so far reminding me of 2010, exact same scores and results this year as 2010 so no real surprise, but this time England have avoided Germany in the L16.

by Marky Wed 26 Jun 2024, 9:09 am

Duty281 wrote:"I understand the narrative towards me and that's better for the team than it being towards them," he added.

"But it is creating an unusual environment to operate in. I've not seen any other team qualify and receive similar. "

Southgate talking his usual rubbish. Seems baffled as to why supporters would be unhappy with a team of this quality scoring just two goals in 270 minutes.

'But we've qualified, lads!' retorts Southgate, who seems to think he's in charge of some minnow nation and should be warmly applauded for leading England through the group. Southgate then had the audacity to claim he's made England fun to watch again, when the majority of games under his leadership have been a painful watch. Especially the last three.

England's 2.26 expected goals from the three games ranked 19th among the 24 teams at the competition and they have only mustered the 17th most shots.

The Three Lions misfired again in Cologne against Slovenia, yet a defiant Southgate insisted "things are starting to come together" for his side.

"We have created some good openings and, at the moment, it is hard work for us," he told ITV Sport.

This campaign is so far reminding me of 2010, exact same scores and results this year as 2010 so no real surprise, but this time England have avoided Germany in the L16.

And even that was only because Denmark couldn't beat Serbia.

by alfie Wed 26 Jun 2024, 10:02 am

Yes a pretty underwhelming three games - to say the least ! But : 5 points , 2 scored 1 conceded and top of the group ...

As Duty says , they've generally been rather better , even if starting slowly , in the group stages in the previous three tournaments. So it surely can't be just the manager's failings that are hobbling them this time...after all this is supposed to be the most talented squad England have put out for years. So what is wrong ?

Theory one : weight of expectation after previous underachievement has them feeling too much pressure - seen in some very nervous play for much of these three games. And also lack of confidence which is maybe causing most of their (fairly rare !) more promising attacks to just fizzle out without much real assault on the opposition goal. Hopefully a marginally more aggressive second half in this one will help the one ; and being faced with a knockout instead of a cagey group encounter the other...

But theory two : much of the pre-tournament fan optimism - and I think probably much of the team plan - revolved around Bellingham. Reasonably enough perhaps ; but in fact apart from one fine header and a few nice touches against Serbia he has been totally ineffective. Is he tired from a busy season or what ? Can't all be down to a couple of other players maybe not in their best positions as you'd surely expect way more from him no matter how anyone else performed. Obviously no one else has been able to compensate for the lack of drive from England's main weapon so better hope he finds his mojo next up. (Though the English representative on the local Australian TV panel is advocating dropping him for the round of 16 !)

Any good points ? Not a lot ; but I guess the fact that the defence was seen as the most suspect part of the team coming in yet has so far held up despite a few hairy moments. Apart from that one long range strike Pickford hasn't been asked to make many difficult saves ; and the way Guehi has settled into his spot is promising. Mainoo when he came on made a difference in midfield - and helped Rice - so hope he starts the next one , and Palmer looked quite assured in his time on the field - probably could have been introduced a little earlier.

Hey they're still alive so can only hope they are saving the goals up for the knockouts. Ironically playing a third placed team might not be the world's best result if the opponent turns out to be Netherlands : but at the same time that should also remind us that it isn't only England who haven't exactly fired in the group stages here ...

by Marky Wed 26 Jun 2024, 10:12 am

I just feel like they're being badly coached.

A lot is being made of the players being in the wrong position, but it's the style of play that isn't working.

by Duty281 Wed 26 Jun 2024, 10:31 am

The defence for me is a big concern, but it hasn't been properly tested yet so has survived largely undamaged. Trippier is not a LB, despite Southgate's insistence, and the only other option is Shaw, who hasn't played since February, or an unusual option like putting Gomez or Trent or Walker out there. It's definitely a weak spot.

I like Guehi, but he's made two big errors in defence in two games. The first one he recovered from, against Denmark, and the second one yesterday he had to rugby tackle the attacker and pick up a yellow. Stones is not sharp. The strongest point of the defence is Walker. I also noted that England lost runners from two Slovenian crosses yesterday. It didn't end badly against Slovenia, but a step up in opposition it will.

If/when England play a better technical team, it's difficult to envisage them getting 40% of the ball, on what we've seen so far, because they can't press, and they notably struggled to retain it when pressed by the Danes.

Mainoo needs to start on Sunday. I liked seeing Rice getting forward a little more when the situation allowed. Foden is trying quite hard, but his end product is completely lacking, and I understand it's difficult because he gets little to no attacking support from Trippier, but I would drop him for, most probably, Gordon. Foden can be an excellent bench option with 30 to play in a tight game (as long as Southgate realises subs are allowed).

Saka has been largely ineffectual thus far. Walker hasn't been getting forward much to assist, although he did come forward more in the second half. I'm OK with Saka continuing to start, but Palmer is very close to his spot.

Bellingham and Kane aren't working as a 10 and 9. It's getting close to the point where you need to remove one to allow one to flourish, a bit like Gerrard/Lampard. Kane continues to drop deep, however Bellingham doesn't push forward when this happens, so it creates a situation where Bellingham is crowded out and England have no striker. Bellingham's movement has to be more fluid. Defences are all over him with cynical play at this Euros. I'd like to see him burst into the box more, and making runs beyond Kane when the situation allows; but Bellingham can equally drop deep to pick the ball off Rice and launch an attack.

Overall, the attacking movement has to be loads better. England have barely created a chance in 270 minutes v average opponents and it's largely because they're so static and because they take so long to move the ball. The period from 45-60 yesterday was the only bright spot, the only flicker of intensity in the whole 90.

I doubt the players are nervous, but conditioning might be playing a part. But it's a weak excuse.

Apparently a 61% chance that England play the Netherlands, and a 39% chance England take on a team from Group E, according to Nielsen Gracenote's analytics.

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 10:55 am

Bringing one LB who is crocked looks like a pretty glaring omission still.

Coaching, kinda, feels like team selection has largely gone down the route of getting the stars in the team, as opposed to previous teams when Southgate has been somewhat more ruthless than his reputation to protect the collective (Foden benched for the Germany game after a pretty mediocre group stage). Trent in midfield didn't work, Foden and Bellingham feels increasingly like only one of them is going to impact the game at a time. Kane looks like the back injury is still affecting him. Mainoo presumably will now start, think there's an argument for Trent at RB and Walker at LB if Shaw isn't fit. Possibly one of Foden/Bellingham drops out and Gordon offers genuine pace on the left. Cole Palmer waiting to game 3 to get minutes looks another error.

Does seem like as the talent available to Gareth has increased massively, he's now struggling to work out how to put it together.

That also said, you can't really hide behind the coaching for the number of elite level footballers that struggled to make basic passes or control the ball. Walker was a disaster last night

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 10:58 am

Denmark finished above Slovenia because Slovenia's assistant got a yellow Laugh

by Marky Wed 26 Jun 2024, 11:23 am

I've seen Ian Wright has suggested Saka goes in at left back, I'm not against him at LWB if we changed system, but as an out and out LB it's asking for trouble.

But then I thought about it, and I think I'd actually like to see how it played out if we changed to a 3-4-2-1

Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi
Trent Mainoo Rice Saka
Foden Bellingham
Kane

by **owen10ozzy** Wed 26 Jun 2024, 11:46 am

Lots of talks this morning about Bellingham/Kane not working. Dont think thats anything to do with either of them tbh. If anything that combination is the epitomy of how a badly set up side/coached side will be ineffective regardless of what world class players are in it.

For Bellingham/Kane to work and for them to be at the top of their game they absolutely must have runners either side (be it wingers or wing backs)...need only look at how Tottenham set up when Kane was at the club & more importantly how Real Madrid set up for Bellingham to have the impact he has had. Both of these guys needs space to maruade into. As it stands England have no one doing it and i include Saka in that. Both he & foden like to come inside...which is fine it you have a full back on one side overlapping. It pulls the defence wider and naturally the oppositions 6/8 have to cover off space left by the defenders. Without it, easy for the opposition to just sit in with essentially 2 narrow banks of 4. Where on earth do we expect Bellingham/Kane to go at that point.

Mainoo was a huge plus last night & absolutely must start. Outside of that still think changes are needed.

Personally I would look at moving Saka to left back at this point (actually think he is a better defender than Trent hence wouldnt be shoehorning him into opposite side) I would then keep Foden wide left but bring in Palmer or Gordon to play out right.

The other option is revert to 3 at the back...

Walker/Stones/Guehi

Trent Mainoo Rice Bellingham Saka

Foden
Kane

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 26 Jun 2024, 12:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:The defence for me is a big concern, but it hasn't been properly tested yet so has survived largely undamaged...

If/when England play a better technical team, it's difficult to envisage them getting 40% of the ball, on what we've seen so far, because they can't press, and they notably struggled to retain it when pressed by the Danes.

I couldn't believe how often England were dispossessed / gave the ball away against Denmark. They were lucky Slovenia were playing for the draw and didn't press them, because they're an accident waiting to happen in defence.

by dummy_half Wed 26 Jun 2024, 12:35 pm

I'm not so sure it's a change of personnel or formation that we need (other than having someone who can actually play left back), more a change of mindset - so risk-averse and slow moving the ball through midfield. We don't need Rice and Gallagher falling back into the defensive line when Stones or Guehi have the ball - get bit further forward and take the ball on the half turn to feed either the wide players or forward runners. Kane's fine doing what he's doing as long as others are prepared to run past him, which has happened maybe twice in 3 games.
Of the starting attackers, Foden's probably been the best, although there've been too many cases of him nearly but not quite getting the threaded passes through. Saka looks off form and not sure what's going on with Bellingham after a decent first half of the first game - been totally anonymous.
Though Cole Palmer showed up well in his 20 minutes last night, as the tempo improved when the ball went near him. Couldn't quite find the killer ball, but it at least looked more likely to happen.

by Duty281 Wed 26 Jun 2024, 3:58 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/26/englands-problems-increase-as-phil-foden-heads-home-due-to-family-matter

Foden's gone home due to a family matter, so it might be an enforced change for Southgate on the left.

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 4:45 pm

Apparently it's a few days leave to see his pregnant partner and he's expected back before the last 16 tie

by mountain man Wed 26 Jun 2024, 5:37 pm

Well it's top of group so objective achieved although entirely unconvincing. Bellingham looks tired to me and first game aside been shadow of his club self. Foden was good last night I thought but yet again Guehi best player by a long way. Kane is not really justifying inclusion although dropping him be a sesimic call. Palmer and Mainoo brought way more energy, can't say Gallagher is doing a lot.
Overall very poor considering potential of players. After criticism post Denmark game I thought we'd see a much better performance specially as they were already through but was lack lustre. OK, Slovania parked the bus but still pretty average.

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 6:56 pm

Belgium somewhat fortunate to survive Ukraine and finish second

Their prize is France in the L16.

by Duty281 Wed 26 Jun 2024, 6:56 pm

The most even group you'll ever see ends, fittingly enough, with two draws. Belgium and Ukraine both missing great chances at the end.

Means Romania top the group and get the easier bottom half. Belgium in 2nd and the crowded top half, starting with a game v France in the Last 16 (tie of the round). Slovakia 3rd and are England's potential opponents. Ukraine out.

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 7:01 pm

No idea how Uefa work this out but I'm fairly sure if the Czechs or Georgians win England will play Slovakia or the third place from group F

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 7:07 pm

From that it's the Dutch if both fail to win.

Otherwise Slovakia

by Duty281 Wed 26 Jun 2024, 7:16 pm

Basically, if the third placed team from Group F qualify, England will play Slovakia. If the third placed team from Group F doesn't qualify, England will play the Netherlands.

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 8:03 pm

Well Georgia lead after 2 minutes...

by Duty281 Wed 26 Jun 2024, 9:19 pm

Georgia have doubled the lead thanks to a penalty (Called on VAR).

Thirty minutes away from making the KO stage at their first ever Euros as an independent nation.

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 9:56 pm

Famous night for Georgia, albeit against a team of reserves who would've struggled to give less of a Poopie. Not many playing their way into the starting XI. But Georgia were excellent nonetheless.

So England will play Slovakia on Sunday

by GSC Wed 26 Jun 2024, 9:58 pm

I make that Spain Georgia, Romania Holland and Portugal Slovenia to complete the set?

by Duty281 Wed 26 Jun 2024, 10:02 pm

Georgia have done it. Phenomenal. They've achieved something that Scotland have never done. And well done to the referee for sorting out the usual embarrassing behaviour from Portugal.

Turks also downed the Czechs with a last minute winner. The Czechs played most of the game with ten men.

Means England have Slovakia, not the Netherlands, in the Last 16. Southgate the God of Luck as we know.

Last 16 draw (predicted winner in bold)

Spain v Georgia
Germany v Denmark

Portugal v Slovenia
France v Belgium

Romania v Netherlands
Austria v Turkey

England v Slovakia
Switzerland v Italy

It's certainly a bit lopsided. England have the strongest squad in that bottom half, but aren't showing it with the current form. But, then again, Netherlands and Italy aren't exactly playing as you'd expect, so could be a decent chance for one of the lesser heralded sides.

Huge battle to make the final in the top half, fatigue could be a big issue for the team that does get to Berlin.

by alfie Thu 27 Jun 2024, 2:52 am

England probably won't mind getting Slovakia instead of Netherlands next...though having struggled to break down two "S" teams in the group it may not be such a great omen Smile

Get through this and they could even get another "S" if the Swiss can account for Italy...and while I am being silly , could end up with Slovenia again or Spain...

Sorry about that...back to the cricket while it lasts.

by mountain man Thu 27 Jun 2024, 7:51 am

Slovakia probably best England could have hoped for. Most pundits agree it'll be siilar game to Slovinia, packed defence and having to try and unpick it. Could be another grim 0-0 then pens!

by GSC Thu 27 Jun 2024, 8:31 am

Not wholly convinced the Dutch wouldn't have been a better option. Name value sure but they really haven't been very good

by Marky Thu 27 Jun 2024, 8:34 am

alfie wrote:England probably won't mind getting Slovakia instead of Netherlands next...

2016 England fans wrote:England probably won't mind getting Iceland instead of Portugal next...

by Mind the windows Tino. Thu 27 Jun 2024, 8:42 am

Duty281 wrote:Georgia have done it. Phenomenal. They've achieved something that Scotland have never done. And well done to the referee for sorting out the usual embarrassing behaviour from Portugal.

Turks also downed the Czechs with a last minute winner. The Czechs played most of the game with ten men.

Means England have Slovakia, not the Netherlands, in the Last 16. Southgate the God of Luck as we know.

Last 16 draw (predicted winner in bold)

Spain v Georgia
Germany v Denmark

Portugal v Slovenia
France v Belgium

Romania v Netherlands
Austria v Turkey

England v Slovakia
Switzerland v Italy

It's certainly a bit lopsided. England have the strongest squad in that bottom half, but aren't showing it with the current form. But, then again, Netherlands and Italy aren't exactly playing as you'd expect, so could be a decent chance for one of the lesser heralded sides.

Huge battle to make the final in the top half, fatigue could be a big issue for the team that does get to Berlin.

Be surprised if Turkey beat Austria.

by sirfredperry Sat 29 Jun 2024, 7:00 pm

That was easily the worst Italian team I've seen.

by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 7:05 pm

Didn't see it, but seems Switzerland won pretty comfortably? Not surprised based on what I've seen from Italy this tournament. That 2021 win sticking out as an anomaly for the Italians in a pretty rubbish ten years (by their standards).

Swiss get England or Slovakia.

by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 11:12 pm

Very smooth win for Germany, looking very much like potential winners.

by alfie Sun 30 Jun 2024, 5:41 am

Duty281 wrote:Very smooth win for Germany, looking very much like potential winners.

Got a bit lucky with those marginal VAR calls but yes they looked rather good.

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