Its Back! Prem Round 1

Friday:
Falcons v Bristol 19.45
Bath v Saints 19.45

Saturday:
Exeter v Tigers 15.05
Gloucester v Saracens 17.30

Sunday:
Sale v Quins 15.00

Newcastle Falcons v Bristol Bears (Friday, Kingston Park, 7.45pm)

15 Elliott Obatoyinbo,
14 Adam Radwan,
13 Connor Doherty,
12 Sammy Arnold,
11 Ben Stevenson,
10 Brett Connon,
9 Sam Stuart;

1 Adam Brocklebank,
2 Jamie Blamire,
3 Richard Palframan,
4 John Hawkins,
5 Kiran McDonald,
6 Philip van der Walt,
7 Tom Gordon,
8 Callum Chick (captain).

Replacements: 16 Ollie Fletcher, 17 Luan de Bruin, 18 Murray McCallum, 19 Freddie Lockwood, 20 Adam Scott, 21 Joe Davis, 22 Louis Brown, 23 Ben Redshaw.

Not available for selection: Eduardo Bello, Tim Cardall, Sebastian de Chaves, Alex Hearle, Cameron Neild, Pedro Rubiolo, Kieran Wilkinson.



Referee: Anthony Woodthorpe.

Bristol
15 Malins
14 Naulago
13 Van Rensburg
12 Williams
11 Ibitoye
10 Macguinty
9 Randall

1 Genge
2 Thacker
3 Lahiff
4 Dun
5 Batley
6 Luatua
7 Heenan
8 Harding (c)

16 Oghre, 17 Woolmore, 18 Kloska, 19 Caulfield, 20, B. Grondona, 21 Marmion, 22 Jenkins, 23 Lane

Good to see Genge back in action

BATH RUGBY vs NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
Gallagher Premiership, Round 1
Friday 20 September, 2024
Recreation Ground
Kick-off: 7.45pm

15 George Furbank (c)
14 James Ramm
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Tom James

1 Emmanuel Iyogun
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Angus Scott-Young
5 Chunya Munga
6 Josh Kemeny – Saint #2090
7 Tom Pearson
8 Sam Graham

Replacements:
16 Robbie Smith
17 Tom West – Northampton Saints debut
18 Luke Green – Northampton Saints debut
19 Callum Hunter-Hill – Northampton Saints debut
20 Juarno Augustus
21 Archie McParland
22 Toby Thame
23 Tommy Freeman

Bath Rugby:
1 Beno Obano
2 Tom Dunn
3 Will Stuart
4 Quinn Roux
5 Charlie Ewels
6 Ted Hill
7 Miles Reid
8 Alfie Barbeary

09 Ben Spencer
10 Finn Russell
11 Will Muir
12 Will Butt
13 Ollie Lawrence
14 Joe Cokanasiga
15 Tom de Glanville

16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Jacques du Plessis, 20 Guy Pepper, 23 Jaco Coetzee
21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey

Falcons have got a good bench, looks like they might be stacking the bench a bit and looking for an impact in the second half.

Mitchell missing for Saints is a blow and Scott-Young in the second row weakens their tight five which Bath might well take advantage of.

Of the locks, only Tom Lockett was unavailable, so it looks like they chose mobility over bulk, but 110kg is very light for a lock these days, Coles and Mayanavanua, would appear to be available.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Of the locks, only Tom Lockett was unavailable, so it looks like they chose mobility over bulk, but 110kg is very light for a lock these days, Coles and Mayanavanua, would appear to be available.

Isn't Mayanavanua with Fiji? I presume George Smith is injured as I don't think he's featured in pre season and I was interested on he'd get on. Coles not being selected if available would be an odd choice.

Interested to see how Callum Hunter-Hill does on his Saints debut when he comes on because that's a very good signing imho .

I'm going for Bath by +2pts and Tigers by +13pt wins tomorrow night .

Boy am I glad URC and Premiership rugby is back because I've missed it though I've watched bits of the Rugby Championship .

Exeter Chiefs:

15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Ben Hammersley
12 Joe Hawkins
11 Olly Woodburn
10 Harvey Skinner
9 Niall Armstrong
1 Scott Sio (c)
2 Dan Frost
3 Ehren Painter
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Richard Capstick
6 Ethan Roots
7 Ross Vintcent
8 Greg Fisilau

Replacements:
16 Jack Yeandle
17 Will Goodrick-Clarke
18 Josh Iosefa-Scott
19 Jack Dunne
20 Christ Tshiunza
21 Tom Cairns
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Paul Brown-Bampoe

STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [88]
14 Josh Bassett [15]
13 Izaia Perese *
12 Solomone Kata [19]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [22]
10 Jamie Shillcock [26]
9 Jack van Poortvliet [73]
1 Nicky Smith *
2 Charlie Clare [95]
3 Joe Heyes [141]
4 Harry Wells [199]
5 Ollie Chessum (C) [56]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [107]
7 Olly Cracknell [43]
8 Kyle Hatherell [20]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Finn Theobald-Thomas [9]
17 James Cronin [34]
18 Dan Cole [323]
19 Côme Joussain *
20 Tommy Reffell [114]
21 Ben Youngs [314]
22 Ben Volavola *
23 Dan Kelly [81]

Half time...not sure what to make ...

HT at Kingston Park.  3-5 to Bristol.

Falcons been camped on the Bristol line four times and come away with nowt, until the stroke of half time.  Don't know what they've been working on in preseason, but it certainly isn't catching...

Really should have been kicking the points, could have been more than a score ahead now.

Scrum really is the worst. Who pays £30-£40 to watch 10 portly fellows throw themselves at each-other's feet (after the obligatory 90 seconds of arsing around). Get it in, get it out and bloody get on with it!

Falcons seem to have loaded the bench, particularly with the props. I suspect Diamond is probably delighted with only being behind by 2 points at half time. He'll fancy taking on the second half Bristol pack where the subs aren't as good as the players they are replacing and with the tempo Bristol play at those forwards can't last the full 80.

Bath 21-10 up against Saints. Saints losing out in kick battle, kick chase and bluntly the physicality stakes.

Freeman surely won't sit on the bench for much longer, Hutchinson has been particularly average. Hunter-Hill to add some weight up front is surely only a matter of time as well.

It is frustrating having two games on at the same time, I am half watching both, it means I can't properly get invested in either one.

I find myself getting frustrated, but they are trying their best. We're just not good enough.

At the same time, it is kind of hard to watch Guy Pepper come on for Bath on the other channel and see Hodge lining up for Exeter, or Saracens not even using Brantingham or Johnson.

We've the bones of a decent team playing for other sides.

Lost the fourth lineout, at least two of those were knock ons under no pressure.

Falcons look pretty good in parts but there's just a lack of precision in attack. Falcons are just a few percent off and it's costing them points. You can't leave that many chances out there and expect to get a result.

Saints were underpowered and poor. The substitutions were also baffling. Saints removing the physicality of Sleightholme and defensive nous of Dingwall but leaving on the the flaky Hutchinson and Ramm who was hit and miss, bizarre.

Ramm wants stood down for next week for that pointless push that he got penalised for.

Bristol sadly are a good side which hurts as they're the team I hate most in the prem.  
We'd have lost that by 40 - 50 last season so improvements.  

Ita all about games now..getting used to each other and the tactics. We have some bruisers now though so won't be the push over we have been.

@Geordie How did Scotsmen Tom Gordon and Oliver Leatherbarrow get on ?

I hope Rhys Carre has a good season at Sarries. Is he considered first choice now?

That's some result for Tigers, away win at Exeter Chiefs
The Chieka effect maybe.

mountain man wrote:That's some result for Tigers, away win at Exeter Chiefs
The Chieka effect maybe.

Main difference is the fitness looks much better. Tigers physical and tenacious throughout. Discipline wasn't great but defence was excellent.

Paul Bampoe-Brown on the wing for Chiefs is going to be a star. A combination of him and IFW is going to terrorise defences when they have a functioning midfield.

Big game from Joe Heyes, played really well few more like that and he might start to edge the battle for the shirt with Cole. England could do with that.

Snatching the game at the death is a sweet feeling.

I'd forgotten how slow the Premiership is to post highlights on YouTube.

Rugby Fan wrote:I'd forgotten how slow the Premiership is to post highlights on YouTube.

What about ITV, are they showing a weekly highlights show? They have done for last few years although cannot find anything about it for 2024-2025 season. Used to be ITV4 Sunday or Monday nights.

Solid game at Sale... rather than spectacular.

Baxter v Fordjour
Anwanyu doing well in the basic 12 requirements...
Some bit hits going in...

Highland Shaun wrote:@Geordie How did Scotsmen Tom Gordon and Oliver Leatherbarrow get on ?

Gordon was good. Leatherbarrow was solid.

Geordie wrote:Solid game at Sale... rather than spectacular.  

Baxter v Fordjour
Anwanyu doing well in the basic 12 requirements...
Some bit hits going in...

Didn't Tom Curry just fold his like a Christmas Card?

Scrappy and physical affair so far. Both teams feeling each other out.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:Solid game at Sale... rather than spectacular.  

Baxter v Fordjour
Anwanyu doing well in the basic 12 requirements...
Some bit hits going in...

Didn't Tom Curry just fold his like a Christmas Card?

Scrappy and physical affair so far. Both teams feeling each other out.

Ben....
And? What relevance is that?

mikey_dragon wrote:I hope Rhys Carre has a good season at Sarries. Is he considered first choice now?

I'd be very surprised if he's ahead of Mawi when the Fijian returns. A lot of Sarries fans felt that Mawi had probably pushed ahead of Mako last season. He's been a classic bit of Sarries recruitment and development. Plucked from the Drua at 22, presumably for not much. He was a very talented athlete but raw. They've gradually developed him into a solid scrummager who's so dynamic around the park. He was quietly one of the most impressive LHs at the RWC for Fiji last year.

Brantingam is also highly rated and currently injured. So I'd guess he's either second or third choice currently.

Carre's best rugby was at Sarries though. He'd be another typical bit of McCall work if he gets back to his best. Due to Carre's frame he has high potential. The guy is massive and can get over the gain line. His conditioning has frequently been laughable since leaving Sarries though.

He's one of many interesting players for Sarries this season. It's a new look squad full of potentially very good players given their coaching.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Big game from Joe Heyes, played really well few more like that and he might start to edge the battle for the shirt with Cole. England could do with that.

The best I've seen from Heyes for a long while. I've made no secret of how underwhelmed I've been with him since his fantastic form in the title winning season. Hopefully he can finally kick on again. Other than scrummaging too long there isn't any obvious reason he wouldn't have by now. That's such a common flaw for taller props too. Marler did it early on. Heyes has just seemed to take an age sorting it out. His technique seems better now, hopefully the rest of his game rebounds with it. His fringe defence and carrying as a bench option behind Coley were so impressive in '21/22.

OHC impressed me too. I think his positioning and tackling are massively improved on when he first arrived. He marshalled IFW well. I still think his cannon of a boot needs better honing and utilising though. Ireland built just about the best exit game in rugby off the back of Lowe being able to kick a ball an absurd distance. He wasn't even that accurate when they first started using that tactic either. He could just hoof it absurd distances. Which made the opposition back three set deeper, then JGP and Sexton could hang kicks in the space that created. It was the kicking strategy equivalent of Forrest Gump playing American football. Worked beautifully though.

Sometimes the simplest plans are the most effective.

carpet baboon wrote:Sometimes the simplest plans are the most effective.

A coach I worked with when doing analysis used to say, "Simple plans are brilliant, but executing simple plans is rarely simple".

Ireland's exit strategies being a case in point. Lowe hoofing it a mile is simple and brutally effective. The relentless efficiency of Ireland's kick chase is anything but simple though. Everything about their chase game is designed to minimise energy spend getting out their own half, so they could maximise energy spend going through phases in the opposition half. Getting key carriers into chasing positions that require less exertion. Funnelling opposition runners and kickers to respond where they want. Using the ideal players in ideal roles. It's a brilliant machine that Schmidt then Farrell drilled painstakingly through trial and error to get where they are.

The way they use field position to pressure and manipulate the opposition into situations where they have to kick in field, then run what are basically set-piece plays without needing a set-piece to launch it is one of the best examples. It's a beautiful bit of tactical development. They'll force the opposition to exit by keeping it in play, someone like Doris will be set in the backfield to run it back, setting up a centre field ruck, then they instantly run single phase strike moves without needing a scrum or lineout to launch it. Poetry for an analyst to watch!

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:Solid game at Sale... rather than spectacular.  

Baxter v Fordjour
Anwanyu doing well in the basic 12 requirements...
Some bit hits going in...

Didn't Tom Curry just fold his like a Christmas Card?

Scrappy and physical affair so far. Both teams feeling each other out.

Ben....
And? What relevance is that?

Was more the comedy of timing. He's having a good game isn't he, SMASH. Anwanyu had a tidy game. He wasn't Andre but he isn't going to be, against a physical Sale side in poor conditions it was anything but an easy assignment. Be interesting to see what comes from him with a run of games.

king_carlos wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Big game from Joe Heyes, played really well few more like that and he might start to edge the battle for the shirt with Cole. England could do with that.

The best I've seen from Heyes for a long while. I've made no secret of how underwhelmed I've been with him since his fantastic form in the title winning season. Hopefully he can finally kick on again. Other than scrummaging too long there isn't any obvious reason he wouldn't have by now. That's such a common flaw for taller props too. Marler did it early on. Heyes has just seemed to take an age sorting it out. His technique seems better now, hopefully the rest of his game rebounds with it. His fringe defence and carrying as a bench option behind Coley were so impressive in '21/22.

OHC impressed me too. I think his positioning and tackling are massively improved on when he first arrived. He marshalled IFW well. I still think his cannon of a boot needs better honing and utilising though. Ireland built just about the best exit game in rugby off the back of Lowe being able to kick a ball an absurd distance. He wasn't even that accurate when they first started using that tactic either. He could just hoof it absurd distances. Which made the opposition back three set deeper, then JGP and Sexton could hang kicks in the space that created. It was the kicking strategy equivalent of Forrest Gump playing American football. Worked beautifully though.

Yeah Heyes has been a real frustration, the potential is there to be a cracking tighthead and go onto win a load of caps. Hopefully this is the start of a season where he kicks on and Cole comes on to do 25 minutes and see out the game.

Agree re OHC, we've barely used him. Good to see him being more involved, coming off his wing and chasing kicks hard. Hopefully Hewat has some ideas about how to get the most out of hkm. I liked how we used Steward in attack as well. Didn't have enough ball to see enough of it but him running down the 10/12 channel, from either deep or the blindside got decent results. Bassett was a disappointment though, he might be lucky to keep his shirt after Satala's good pre season and the news that Watson might be available for next week.

George Martin is set to return next week as well. Chessum Jnr rumoured to be another four weeks away with a nerve issue in his shoulder though Joussain looked like he might develop into a handy option.

mountain man wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:I'd forgotten how slow the Premiership is to post highlights on YouTube.

What about ITV, are they showing a weekly highlights show? They have done for last few years although cannot find anything about it for 2024-2025 season. Used to be ITV4 Sunday or Monday nights.

ITV4 on Wednesday at 1145am . It sounds like there won't be David Flat man/Topsy Ojo analysis/banter though .

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/pr-tv

Highlights

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Big game from Joe Heyes, played really well few more like that and he might start to edge the battle for the shirt with Cole. England could do with that.

The best I've seen from Heyes for a long while. I've made no secret of how underwhelmed I've been with him since his fantastic form in the title winning season. Hopefully he can finally kick on again. Other than scrummaging too long there isn't any obvious reason he wouldn't have by now. That's such a common flaw for taller props too. Marler did it early on. Heyes has just seemed to take an age sorting it out. His technique seems better now, hopefully the rest of his game rebounds with it. His fringe defence and carrying as a bench option behind Coley were so impressive in '21/22.

OHC impressed me too. I think his positioning and tackling are massively improved on when he first arrived. He marshalled IFW well. I still think his cannon of a boot needs better honing and utilising though. Ireland built just about the best exit game in rugby off the back of Lowe being able to kick a ball an absurd distance. He wasn't even that accurate when they first started using that tactic either. He could just hoof it absurd distances. Which made the opposition back three set deeper, then JGP and Sexton could hang kicks in the space that created. It was the kicking strategy equivalent of Forrest Gump playing American football. Worked beautifully though.

Yeah Heyes has been a real frustration, the potential is there to be a cracking tighthead and go onto win a load of caps. Hopefully this is the start of a season where he kicks on and Cole comes on to do 25 minutes and see out the game.

Agree re OHC, we've barely used him. Good to see him being more involved, coming off his wing and chasing kicks hard. Hopefully Hewat has some ideas about how to get the most out of hkm. I liked how we used Steward in attack as well. Didn't have enough ball to see enough of it but him running down the 10/12 channel, from either deep or the blindside got decent results. Bassett was a disappointment though, he might be lucky to keep his shirt after Satala's good pre season and the news that Watson might be available for next week.

George Martin is set to return next week as well. Chessum Jnr rumoured to be another four weeks away with a nerve issue in his shoulder though Joussain looked like he might develop into a handy option.

Yeah, I liked the different use of Steward in attack too. It does kind of sum up why I'm in the camp that he'd be better at centre though. His best strength after taking high balls is getting over the gain line. Those lines he's being used to run there seem so much better suited to the midfield. Either way, it's good to see Cheika and Hewat installing some simple changes to last years dire attack so early on.

Bassett is solid but his strike rate at Tigers has been rubbish, if being brutal. It's a reason I really hoped that Porter might shift back to wing before he sadly had to retire due to the concussions. I think we need more attacking threat on the wings with Steward at fullback - who isn't a significant playmaking or counterattacking option. When Kata returns from a likely ban, I'd be happy to see Kata or Perese tried out there for more punch.

Martin and Watson both potentially back next week according to Cheika. Which would be huge boosts if so. Then Montoya and Pollard shouldn't be far behind. Hopefully Carnduff and Ilione are available soon too.

Availability plays such a huge role. Part of that is planning, rotation, recruiting good depth, blah blah. A big part is also luck though. In that '21/22 title winning season Tigers had a ton of luck. Ford getting dropped by England made him available early on. Similar with Cole having already been dropped. Great injury fortune generally. It led to such a strong start and momentum to carry through.

A fun stat I learnt recently. Martin, Chessum and Henderson have only featured in the same match once. In 2021!

Beets shouldn't be far from arriving in Leicester either. Bulls are out of the Currie Cup, he was back for their last couple of fixtures and impressing.

As said several times, I'm far more optimistic about Tigers with Cheika and Hewat coming in, McKellar gone. It does feel like the league as a whole isn't as strong though, which makes judging improvements tough. An ebbing tide lowers all boats perhaps...?

I think the league has lost some higher profile players and then replaced them with younger players with potential. If those players achieve their potential then the league will be stronger in the long run, in the short term it might hamper us.

I'm still undecided on Steward at 12, I see the logic but I still think he could be a far greater threat from 15, particularly for Tigers. He has got the potential to be a creative player at the back and whilst not to the level of the likes of Furbank certainly enough to open up space. I like his variation in bringing the ball back, his short range kicking game has clearly been a big work on and he found space a couple of times with chips. It doesn't help that with Kelly and Woodward Tigers should be sorted at 12 for years.

I think Kata on the wing would be good in attack and a gaping hole defensively, I think he'll end up an impact player for us this season. Kelly at 12 opens up the distribution to the wingers and Perese at 13 can be a great focal point to attack from further out once others start to read his offloads. We've got some interesting wing options with Will Wand at 6ft2 and 15 stone capable of playing there as well as at 13. Satala looked good in pre season, Simmonds is quick and hopefully back soon. Ant Watson should offer us a lot more out there if he can stay fit.

Beets arriving will be good, will take him a little while to adapt though you'd have thought. He's not played much Currie Cup and the Prem is a step up. We definitely need some more mobile physicality in the backrow though at least the academy seems to be producing it, fingers crossed selection brings it through.

It wasn't clear from the highlights, but did Gloucs manage to get the ball into Wade's hands at any point? Be interesting to see how he gets on there.

Mr Bounce wrote:It wasn't clear from the highlights, but did Gloucs manage to get the ball into Wade's hands at any point? Be interesting to see how he gets on there.

He got a couple of carries, but never in enough space to do much with it. He didn't seem able to dance his way open, either, and there were a couple of occasions where he should have passed but didn't. Defensively he seemed a bit more disciplined than I remember. Still, early days yet and Gloucester as a whole did not perform well.

Poorfour wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:It wasn't clear from the highlights, but did Gloucs manage to get the ball into Wade's hands at any point? Be interesting to see how he gets on there.

He got a couple of carries, but never in enough space to do much with it. He didn't seem able to dance his way open, either, and there were a couple of occasions where he should have passed but didn't. Defensively he seemed a bit more disciplined than I remember. Still, early days yet and Gloucester as a whole did not perform well.

Thanks Poorfour. I figured Gloucs weren't playing well from the highlights but needed confirmation that it wasn't just those bits.