Premiership Rugby Round 2 - Now Things Get Interesting

Round 2

Friday 27 September
Bristol v Gloucester, Ashton Gate, Bristol, Kick-off: 7.45pm BST

Saturday 28 September
Harlequins v Newcastle, Der Schtup, London, Kick-off: 3pm BST
Saracens v Sale, StoneX Stadium, London, Kick-off: 3.05pm BST
The Northampton Saints v Exeter, Franklin’s Gardens, Northampton, Kick-off: 5.30pm BST

Sunday 29 September
Leicester v Bath, Mattioli Woods Welford Road, Leicester, Kick-off: 3pm BST

It's crap weather here (OK crap for New Jersey which is more like a typical autumn day in England). So likely staying in and watching. To be fair, Bristol-Gloucester would not be my first choice watch, but there are a few good storylines here.

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS vs EXETER CHIEFS
Gallagher Premiership, Round 2
Saturday 28 September, 2024
Kick-off: 5.30pm

15 George Furbank (c)
14 James Ramm
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Tommy Freeman
10 Fin Smith
9 Tom James

1 Emmanuel Iyogun
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Chunya Munga – 50th Premiership appearance
5 Alex Coles
6 Josh Kemeny
7 Tom Pearson
8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements:
16 Robbie Smith
17 Tom West
18 Luke Green
19 Angus Scott-Young
20 Sam Graham – 50th Saints appearance
21 Archie McParland
22 Toby Thame
23 Ollie Sleightholme

Not available for selection:
Emeka Atuanya, George Hendy, Callum Hunter-Hill, Tom Lockett, Alex Mitchell and Burger Odendaal.

Exeter Chiefs:
15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Olly Woodburn
12 Joe Hawkins
11 Paul Brown-Bampoe
10 Harvey Skinner
9 Sam Maunder
1 Scott Sio (c)
2 Dan Frost
3 Ehren Painter
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Christ Tshiunza
6 Ethan Roots
7 Richard Capstick
8 Ross Vintcent

Replacements:
16 Jack Yeandle
17 Will Goodrick-Clarke
18 Marcus Street
19 Jack Dunne
20 Martin Moloney
21 Tom Cairns
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Will Rigg

STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [89]
14 Anthony Watson [18]
13 Izaia Perese [1]
12 Dan Kelly [82]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [23]
10 Jamie Shillcock [27]
9 Jack van Poortvliet (c) [74]
1 Nicky Smith [1]
2 Charlie Clare [96]
3 Joe Heyes [142]
4 Harry Wells [200]
5 George Martin [66]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [108]
7 Tommy Reffell [115]
8 Olly Cracknell [44]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Finn Theobald-Thomas [10]
17 James Cronin [35]
18 Dan Cole [324]
19 Côme Joussain [1]
20 Kyle Hatherell [21]
21 Ben Youngs [315]
22 Ben Volavola [1]
23 Mike Brown [27]

Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Ross Molony (debut), 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer , 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville

Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Vilikesa Sela (debut), 19 Charlie Ewels, 20 Ted Hill, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee

Starting XV:

1. Fin Baxter (52)
2. Nathan Jibulu (14)
3. Titi Lamositele (1)
4. Joe Launchbury (21)
5. Stephan Lewies (71 – Captain)
6. Jack Kenningham (50)
7. Will Evans (91)
8. Chandler Cunningham-South (17)
9. Will Porter (23)
10. Marcus Smith (161)
11. Cassius Cleaves (8)
12. Lennox Anyanwu (23)
13. Luke Northmore (69)
14. Nick David (50)
15. Leigh Halfpenny (1)

Impact Players:

16. Jack Walker (64)
17. Wyn Jones (Debut)
18. Simon Kerrod (104)
19. Irne Herbst (48)
20. Dino Lamb (94)
21. Danny Care (377)
22. Jarrod Evans (18)
23. Oscar Beard (56)

Not available for selection (injury/international): Alex Dombrandt, Cadan Murley, Tyrone Green, Joe Marler, James Chisholm, George Head, Rodrigo Isgro

Newcastle Falcons team to face Harlequins (Saturday, 3pm, Twickenham Stoop)

15 Elliott Obatoyinbo, 14 Adam Radwan, 13 Connor Doherty, 12 Sammy Arnold, 11 Ben Stevenson, 10 Brett Connon, 9 Sam Stuart; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 Jamie Blamire, 3 Richard Palframan, 4 John Hawkins, 5 Kiran McDonald, 6 Philip van der Walt, 7 Tom Gordon, 8 Callum Chick (captain).

Replacements: 16 Ollie Fletcher, 17 Luan de Bruin, 18 Murray McCallum, 19 Freddie Lockwood, 20 Adam Scott, 21 Joe Davis, 22 Ben Redshaw, 23 Ethan Grayson.

Not available for selection: Eduardo Bello, Tim Cardall, Sebastian de Chaves, Alex Hearle, Cameron Neild, Pedro Rubiolo, Kieran Wilkinson.

Bristol side;
15. Max Malins (34 apps), 14. Siva Naulago (36 apps), 13. Benhard Janse van Rensburg (26 apps), 12. James Williams (43 apps), 11. Gabriel Ibitoye (42 apps), 10. AJ MacGinty (38 apps), 9. Harry Randall (127 apps); 1. Ellis Genge (45 apps), 2. 16. Gabriel Oghre (18 apps), 3. George Kloska (44 apps), 4. James Dun (35 apps), 5. Joe Batley (64 apps), 6. Steven Luatua (131 apps), 7. Jake Heenan (110 apps), 8. Fitz Harding (c) (73 apps).

Subs: 16. Will Capon (87 apps), 17. Jake Woolmore (151 apps), 18. Max Lahiff (88 apps), 19. Josh Caulfield (25 apps), 20. Benjamin Grondona (2 apps), 21. Kieran Marmion (25 apps), 22. Joe Jenkins (12 apps), 23. Rich Lane (36 apps).

Unavailable: Harry Thacker, Steele Barker, George Taylor, Santiago Grondona, Viliame Mata, Sam Worsley, Kalaveti Ravouvou, Noah Heward.

Glaws;
15 George Barton
14 Christian Wade
13 Chris Harris
12 Seb Atkinson
11 Max Llewellyn
10 Gareth Anscombe
9 Tomos Williams (C)
1 Mayco Vivas
2 Jack Singleton
3 Kirill Gotovtsev
4 Freddie Thomas
5 Matias Alemanno
6 Jack Clement
7 Harry Taylor
8 Zach Mercer

16 Seb Blake, 17 Jamal Ford-Robinson, 18 Afo Fasogbon, 19 Freddie Clarke, 20 Ruan Ackermann, 21 Albert Tuisue, 22 Caolan Englefield, 23 Charlie Atkinson

Referee: Tom Foley
Assistant Referees: Matthew Carley & Simon Harding
TMO: David Rose

A bit of a shock to see that Smith is the most experienced player in that Quins starting XV, and Baxter is 5th.

Poorfour wrote:A bit of a shock to see that Smith is the most experienced player in that Quins starting XV, and Baxter is 5th.

Most experienced with Quins.   I think the number next to the names are the number of Quins caps.  Joe Launchbury has a few more matches under his belt than Marcus.  Halfpenny too.  But the disparity in the number of Quins caps from Smith to everyone else in the XV is huge.  To be fair Care's 377 Quins appearances shows how unusual for someone to play so many matches for his club.

Bristol-Gloucester is starting pretty up tempo. Smart try by Wade.

Surely that was a forward pass in the lead up to the second Gloucester try.

And now Bristol have two players in the bin with yellow fever.

Forward pass for the try and then a min later Forward pass noth by Tomos Williams

doctor_grey wrote:

Poorfour wrote:A bit of a shock to see that Smith is the most experienced player in that Quins starting XV, and Baxter is 5th.

Most experienced with Quins.   I think the number next to the names are the number of Quins caps.  Joe Launchbury has a few more matches under his belt than Marcus.  Halfpenny too.  But the disparity in the number of Quins caps from Smith to everyone else in the XV is huge.  To be fair Care's 377 Quins appearances shows how unusual for someone to play so many matches for his club.

Fair points. But it was more a reaction to seeing a 25 year old with over 150 appearances and a 22 year old with over 50.

Fun fact, because I am a sad specimen: since 2007/8, Quins have only had two primary fly halves, with Nick Evans putting in 9 seasons' tenure and Smith now starting his 9th. In that time, they've had 13 other fly halves listed on their books, with the longest 22ure being 5 years.

Owen Farrell was on the books at Sarries for all but the first and last of those seasons, though he was only the primary fly half from about 2010.

I can't think of another club that even comes close in terms of long term fly halves, though move one position closer to the scrum and Care has been the primary scrum half for the whole Evans/Smith era. That said, I think Will Porter is on track to end the season as the starting 9.

Geordie wrote:Forward pass for the try and then a min later Forward pass noth by Tomos Williams

And Gloucester are up three tries to one. The way the game started I thought Bristol was going to run Gloucester off the park. I got that about 500% wrong....

doctor_grey wrote:Surely  that was a forward pass in the lead up to the second Gloucester try.

Looked like it on the first replay but his hands went back for the pass.

Both teams looking to play but Bristol's discipline has been poor.

9 and 10 are the key spots and quins have been very lucky to have outstanding players for so long there.

They checked both and were clear that it wasn't clear and obvious enough. I thought the Williams one was forward relative to the lines on the pitch on replay - but as we've done to death on here, they're looking at the angle of the hands and not the movement relative to the pitch.

Wade looks like he's lost all his pace. Looks like he's running in sand !

Geordie wrote:9 and 10 are the key spots and quins have been very lucky to have outstanding players for so long there.

I was resigned to the idea that there was no way we could find a player to replace Nick Evans, only to find that we'd been readying one for years. Well, minutes, given how quickly he went from "rookie who will get a few minutes here and there for experience" to "owner of the Quins 10 shirt for as long as we can keep him".

Geordie wrote:Wade looks like he's lost all his pace. Looks like he's running in sand !

He was quick enough for his try, but he's visibly bulkier than he was before going to NFL and hasn't yet shown any sign of the agility that made him so dangerous.

I stand by my statement lol.

Yup, the top end speed is still there. Good read for the intercept, too.

Ben Kay seems to have lost his ability to accurately describe back play, though.

Poorfour wrote:
Ben Kay seems to have lost his ability to accurately describe back play, though.

To be fair not something he was exactly known for in his playing days

Poorfour wrote:Yup, the top end speed is still there. Good read for the intercept, too.

Ben Kay seems to have lost his ability to accurately describe back play, though.

two tries for Wade, though. Malins, for all his obvious talent, just does things like that horrible pass (5 on 1 or something like that). Certainly cost Bristol a try and was a gimmee for Wade (who outran....Malins).

Poorfour wrote:

Geordie wrote:Wade looks like he's lost all his pace. Looks like he's running in sand !

He was quick enough for his try, but he's visibly bulkier than he was before going to NFL and hasn't yet shown any sign of the agility that made him so dangerous.

Yeah he doesn't look as lethal as before but he's had a good half and he's still stepped a couple of defenders.

Ooh Elis will be getting fired up after that!

Waving Genge off...ouch.

Don't get cocky kid. I still don't rate you over being huge

Geordie wrote:Ooh Elis will be getting fired up after that!

Little bit of dark arts from the youngster as well. Binds on the arm and pushes Genge's elbow down then drives straight through his ribs. I like the confidence. Genge was fuming. I suspect after the game Genge will get on well with Fasogbon he likes a character. Game needs them as well.

It's funny, I thought this match would be a hard watch. This is fun.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:Ooh Elis will be getting fired up after that!

Little bit of dark arts from the youngster as well. Binds on the arm and pushes Genge's elbow down then drives straight through his ribs. I like the confidence. Genge was fuming. I suspect after the game Genge will get on well with Fasogbon he likes a character. Game needs them as well.

They’re probably going to be England team mates at some point, so it’s only sensible to get along.

Loved that from Fosogbon, Genge tried to intimidate him and he gave him the send off. He may need to work on his scrummaging , but at 20 you have to love the confidence and edge.

doctor_grey wrote:It's funny, I thought this match would be a hard watch.  This is fun.  

Can you positively jinx few more games this weekend please.

A try within the next five minutes for Bristol and this is set for a massive finish.

Gloucester's defence has got very narrow, they are looking tired.

Do people rate Fasogabon as a real potential or is he just big?

I'm still not sold over say Fordjour or Sela...

Do you really think that was a yellow?

Pet hate that, he knocked on which is fair enough, but then he clearly played it on the floor. It just gets ignored so often.

Thought yellow was harsh, penalty at most. They were both bent at hips.

Geordie wrote:Do people rare Fasogabon as a real potential or is he just big?

I'm still not sold over say Fordjour or Sela...

Fasogbon is big, mobile and strong. He's a massive rough diamond for me. He could be an absolute monster of a tighthead or just another solid option at a high level ala Will Stuart. Time will tell, Ehren Painter was rated more highly than Joe Heyes at under 20s level. Marcus Street was highly rated. Doesn't always pan out as expected.

doctor_grey wrote:Do you really think that was a yellow?

I thought it was a bit harsh. There was contact, but “he can get lower” is a tough call to make on a short player who was already pretty low, and his opponent does have a sudden change of height.

Anyway, are Bristol going to have their own Bristanbul moment here? It’s getting tense.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Gloucester's defence has got very narrow, they are looking tired.

You just called that last Bristol try. Was exactly that.

Geordie wrote:Do people rate Fasogabon as a real potential or is he just big?

I'm still not sold over say Fordjour or Sela...

Could be both!

It is so hard to say with young props, I think the best you can say is that they both have the ingredients to be successful, whether they are depends upon application and the ability to avoid serious injuries.

Saying that, three prominent England U20s props involved this weekend with Billy Sela on the bench for Bath on Sunday, got to be a encouraging, no?

Yeah he's young so I shouldn't be critical. But I'll be interested to see how they go with him. I don't think he's a good scrummager but he can carry. ..but looks knackered after one big carry..

So...give him a season or probably two hammering his scrummaging technique and fitness and we'll see where he is.

Cumbrian wrote:Saying that, three prominent England U20s props involved this weekend with Billy Sela on the bench for Bath on Sunday, got to be a encouraging, no?

Hugely marra..but I rate Sela and Fordjour quite a bit over Fasogabon...

I hope he proves me wrong as a good one his size is a huge plus for an international side.

I think the positive for English rugby is just how many young talented tightheads are in match day squads currently. Fasogbon, Harper, Heyes, Sela, Fordjour. It's good to see.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think the positive for English rugby is just how many young talented tightheads are in match day squads currently. Fasogbon, Harper, Heyes, Sela, Fordjour. It's good to see.

Oh I totally agree Sam, and good to see Hayes having a huge game last week. Let's see if he follows it up...he needs a big season.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think the positive for English rugby is just how many young talented tightheads are in match day squads currently. Fasogbon, Harper, Heyes, Sela, Fordjour. It's good to see.

It’s definitely encouraging. The critical question is how soon a couple of them can be ready for international duty.

Good finish to a highly entertaining game. Nod to the officials who did a good job at keeping the carnage flowing.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think the positive for English rugby is just how many young talented tightheads are in match day squads currently. Fasogbon, Harper, Heyes, Sela, Fordjour. It's good to see.

It’s definitely encouraging. The critical question is how soon a couple of them can be ready for international duty.

If Heyes plays like he did last week then he's ready. Fantastic performance from him against the Chiefs. We've got some time as Will Stuart is still in his twenties.

As an aside great to see Genge and Fasogbon having a laugh at the end of the game, I thought they'd get along.