Challenges for new SRU regime

Excellent article in the Scotsman today: 10 key areas

In summary, they identify 10 key areas for the SRU's new chief exec (tba) and the new chairman (Sir Moir Lockhead) to tackle:

1. Professional club future - deliver their autonomy & support commercial development;
   
2. Edinburgh's home ground - consider alternatives;
   
3. Edinburgh clubhouse - give the fans somewhere to go in the interim prior to a decision re 2 above;
   
4. Glasgow's home ground - Scotstoun over Firhill;
   
5. Murrayfield car park - picnics;
   
6. Matchday ticket sales - allow last minute purchases;
   
7. Player drain - find correct balance between creating space for the development of youngsters and retaining experienced talent;
   
8. Marketing - do some;
   
9. National team - appoint a DoR;
   
10. London Scottish - get involved.

All very sensible stuff, altho tbh I couldn't give a toss about point 5!

Anything else that you would consider adding to the list?

In a separate article, Jim Telfer urges a return to having pro teams based on the old district set-up in Scotland: Districts - good news for the Borders and the North & Midlands

"Matchday ticket sales - allow last minute purchases"

You mean they don't at the moment That's nuts!

"Marketing - do some"

Sorry but I did at this, but only at the phraseology!

littleswannygirl wrote:"Matchday ticket sales - allow last minute purchases"

You mean they don't at the moment That's nuts!

Yup, absolutely barking - the old regime believed that the cost of employing staff for a small-ish number (c.2-3,000) of additional ticket sales wasn't justified!

Quite a lot to be done then, However trying to deal with all the points at the same time is just going to be disasterous.

Of all your points I would prioritise the following.

First Priority
1. Professional club future - deliver their autonomy & support commercial development.

For me this is priority number 1. Get wealthy rugby fans to invest money in the club to improve their competativeness. This could be bolstered by intergrating 8. Astute marketing could generate greater interest for the pro teams and lead to profits to the business' who are sponsoring the teams or investing money in them.

Second Priority
2. Edinburgh's home ground - consider alternatives
4. Glasgow's home ground - Scotstoun over Firhill

These 2 Items are in a way related. I would have thought with the Commie games coming to Glasgow next some form of Stadia may have been required to host some form of events. I am kind of fumbling in the dark on this one because I don't know. However perhaps it could be argued that the SRU were a little shortsighted when planning for the Scotstoun training HQ and perhaps should have developed it into proper home for Glasgow Rugby.

As for the Burgh, I don't see anything wrong with using some of the pitches at the back of Murrayfield with Temporary Seating like at th Reccie or the RDS in Dublin. Using Myreside is a good alternative and it can generate a great atmosphere, I'm just not 100% convinced it should be a permanent move. Investing in a shared Stadium with Hearts is also a good shout but football fans (in particular the Jambos) have always been opposed to moving from Tynecastle, citing their history is there, Nonsense I say especially when considering the volume of teams that get new stadiums these days where they can write a new history.

The loacation would be critical however, Murrayfield is in a great position very close to the heart of Edinburgh, shipping a new stadium to the outskirts of Edinburgh would not have my backing.

Third Priority
10 London Scottish - get involved.

It was a travesty when the SRU more or less hung LS out to dry. Let's get that remedied pronto, and see if LS can take on some of our promising youngsters like Alex Blair or Mark Bennet (If he had not gone to Clermont).

Sort that out and you also tackle point number 7.

I should also add, match day ticket sales should not be regarded as a challenge, just do it FFS!

<< 10.London Scottish - get involved. >>

How necessary is this? Surely there are bigger fish to fry. Surely player drain and the professional teams in Pro12 are the priorities.

red_stag wrote:<< 10.London Scottish - get involved. >>

How necessary is this? Surely there are bigger fish to fry. Surely player drain and the professional teams in Pro12 are the priorities.

I disagree Staggy.

The reason Vernon went to Sale is because he would struggle to displace Beattie for the no8 jersey at Glasgow.

The reason Bennet went to Clermont is he would be trying to Dicplace Morrison or DHT to get into a Centre or Wing Berth at Glasgow.

Alex Blair was released from his Contract at the Burgh due to a longish injury.

Instead of Scrapping player like youn Blair or Bennet moving to Cermont surely it would be better to have them playing very competative Rugby at a place like London Scottish?

A lot of Scottish Talent has been stifled by being behind strong players with big reputations. Edinburgh alone I could give lots of Examples of players who are equally as good as their peers but can't break into the squad in their favoured positions.

A third pro team in Scotland is a step too far at this stage, using London Scottish in a similar way that Ireland use Connacht would be an Ideal scenario for Scottish rugby where young talent can be nurtured and developed in a very competative league.

Hope that makes sense.

red_stag wrote:<< 10.London Scottish - get involved. >>

How necessary is this? Surely there are bigger fish to fry. Surely player drain and the professional teams in Pro12 are the priorities.

I agree with this, London Scottish have done really well on there own to climb back up to where they were without the SRU's help. Sounds like they are in a better footing than Glasgow or Edinburgh are.

I'd say lend London Scottish support (not necessary financial) if they need it, but let's get our own children in order before we start looking after one of the neighbour's kids.

could glasgow use Broadwood?

Great parking and I guess right size? And no guys looking after your car for £5

Hobo wrote:could glasgow use Broadwood?

Great parking and I guess right size? And no guys looking after your car for £5

Its a decent size stadium and car parking but it's in Cumbernauld which would really take the Glasgow out of the name.

Also I'm worried by it's nickname "The Ice Station"... Not appealing going into the winter months.

Though interestingly the current tenants, Clyde F.C., have told the owners, North Lanarkshire Council, that they wish to leave the stadium, which would leave the stadium sitting empty.

Hobo,
The Warriors have always been regarded as a Glasgow West End team i.e. supporters usually meet in Byres Road hostelries pre- match and retire there postmatch. I would hazard a guess that 75% of their support comes from the West End/Milngavie/Bearsden and so a move to Cumbernauld would not be accepted by these fans. Plus have you ever been to Cumbernauld ? A truly awful place with no redeeming features apart from the road out !

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Hobo,
The Warriors have always been regarded as a Glasgow West End team i.e. supporters usually meet in Byres Road hostelries pre- match and retire there postmatch. I would hazard a guess that 75% of their support comes from the West End/Milngavie/Bearsden and so a move to Cumbernauld would not be accepted by these fans. Plus have you ever been to Cumbernauld ? A truly awful place with no redeeming features apart from the road out !

I live there!
(I dont - I actually live in Lenzie but its not far!)
Whats the Stadium in Milngavie but the homebase called and could that be extended in some way?

Hobo, Is that not Burnbrae where West play?

Actually just checked - it is where West of Scotland Play!

its ironic, glasgow have the stadium but not the pitch, while edinburgh have the pitch but not the stadium. Surely Myreside or Meggetland would be better?

I'm Welsh but I guess my solution would be to:

1) Close Glasgow and Edinburgh and transfer the coaches and professional players to Watsonians (Edinburgh) and Melrose (Borders), and allow them to play in the Magners League. Glasgow Warriors have failed and havent made in roads into the football fan base, clearly its a big population centre but if the population don't give a toss then maybe it's time to move back to the real Scottish heartlands of rugby, which is the borders.

2) Restructure Scottish club rugby.
Contact the Welsh rugby Union and seek to have a new joint Premiership created. the WRU are currently in the process of selecting 8 super clubs (2 for each of the 4 regions), and ask them if they can include 8 of their clubs sides to go with Wales 8 to form a new 16 team league. The Welsh clubs want a 8 team semi pro league below the Magners however the fear is that 8 clubs in the league will not be enough games a season to make it sustainable. With 8 Scottish teams it would make it competitive and provide tougher opposition. Wales has always been more than willing to accomodate Scotland and generally speaking these 2 Unions are closer than any other in the world game.

Boroughmuir RFC - Edinburgh
Currie RFC - Edinburgh

Dundee High Rugby - Dundee
Aberdeen GSFP RFC - Aberdeen

Glasgow Hawks - Glasgow
West of Scotland F.C. - Glasgow

Selkirk RFC - Borders
Hawick RFC - Borders

Swansea - Ospreys
Bridgend - Ospreys

Cardiff - Blues
Pontypridd - Blues

Llanelli - Scarlets
Carmarthen - Scarlets

Newport - Dragons
Cross Keys - Dragons

littleswannygirl wrote:"Matchday ticket sales - allow last minute purchases"

You mean they don't at the moment That's nuts!

"Marketing - do some"

Sorry but I did at this, but only at the phraseology!

You know those two things- the fact that the previous incumbent 'didn't believe' in marketing the Scottish professional sides, and that you couldn't buy tickets at the last minute- really sum the previous regime up for me!

Although, is the matchday ticket sales a new thing? I went to Edinburgh vs Cardiff in the winter of 2009 and I got a ticket from the ticket office at Murrayfield about an hour and a half before the game.

Hobo,

there is no way on this earth that Lenzie is part of Cumbernauld -c'mon man !

AlynDavies,

would never have guessed you are Welsh. Your knowledge of Scottish rugby is zip! Why are you fixated on Watsonians - a second rate public school FPs side ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Hobo,

there is no way on this earth that Lenzie is part of Cumbernauld -c'mon man !

AlynDavies,

would never have guessed you are Welsh. Your knowledge of Scottish rugby is zip! Why are you fixated on Watsonians - a second rate public school FPs side ?

Feel free to contribute your solutions to the Scottish rugby problem instead of be-littleing everyone else contributions to this thread.

My basic reasoning is this, Edinburgh is the home of Scottish rugby and Watsonians are one of it's biggest and most famous sides, which have produced many of Scotlands most famous players.

Secondly the Borders is to Scotland what the Ospreys are to Wales. The Ospreys represent Bridgend, Pencoed, Neath, Aberavon, Maesteg, and Swansea and it's valleys, basically the heart of our rugby, yet simply because Glasgow is a city and has more population the SRU choose to give Glasgow a professional team based on long term potential not common sense.
England, Italy and France could make a new 6 Nations with Russia, Germany, Spain based on long term potential but it wouldnt be better and the new teams certainly arent stronger...
I selected Melrose because their Scotlands most successful club.

As,
David Furgeson does lay out a good set of priorities. The challenge is that some of them need to be done in parallel.

match day tickets - not the most important, obviously, but can be fixed immediately by the stroke of a pen. How this was allowed to happen is unbelieveable, and is probably the best illustration of how isolated the SRU have become.

professional team's future - I would separate the three professional clubs from the SRU altoghther. Completely independent. Responsible AND accountable for their own performance, results, and P&L. Ah, you see I said three pro teams, eh? Thats also part of the point here.

marketing - If it wasn't for the 6N, outside of us hard-cores, almost no one would know what is gojng on. And, even worse, what are the names of the pro teams? The Edinburgh Whats? The Glasgow Who? The teams need names which represent their cities/regions. Build an identity for these teams, not just pulling names out of a hat. The sport and entertainment marketplace is extremely conmpetitive, even more so now that people's money needs to go further. So this requires serious investment, targeted plans, and consistent positive image across all Scottish Rugby, top to bottom, not just the pro and national teams.

home grounds - totally unacceptable for Edinburgh to play in an empty stadium. The three (remember?) pro teams need decent places to play which will actually allow for growth. Needs to be sorted quickly.

Those would be my top priorities from his list. I would forget London Scottish for the moment. To me, that appears to be more of a distraction that its worth, at least for now.

AlynDavies,

I reiterate your knowledge of Scottish rugby (and grammar apparently !) would barely fill the back of a postage stamp.

Using your reasoning Pontypool should become a Welsh pro -team i.e. famous and have produced some internationals. Glasgow Warriors have a higher average gate than Edinburgh -and incidently, create a far better atmosphere within the limits of Firhill Stadium than the National Library at Murrayfield.

Your argument re Melrose is also somewhat flawed as Ayr could make a case that they are the most successful club in Scotland at present.

How many times do people have to tell you that Watsonians are pants?!

Not that im supporting your proposals, and im sure weve told you this before, but Ayr, Currie, and Melrose are the powerfull clubs, especially Ayr.

Imperialbigdave wrote:How many times do people have to tell you that Watsonians are pants?!

Not that im supporting your proposals, and im sure weve told you this before, but Ayr, Currie, and Melrose are the powerfull clubs, especially Ayr.

I did state you'd put the players from Glasgow and Edinburgh and their coaches into Melrose and Watsonians, just to give the fans more of a history and legacy to identify with. It doesnt matter if the current Watsonians team are pants they will still be amateur. the profseeionals at Glasgow and their coaches would replace them.
Secondly you only have the money to support 2 professional teams, so I'd assume you's take the biggest and most famous one in the Borders. Using my "limited" knowledge of Scottish rugby Id assume this would be Melrose because in my lifetime they seem to be the ones who win the most trophies.
I was just trying to put suggestions forward to advance the debate or get people talking, Id certainly love to see Scottish rugby get back up to where it was when I was younger. Some of the easy games Wales of had against you in the last 10 years have been shocking. the regression of such a proud country is very sad.

As for the Pontypool question that was posed earlier, if I had my way they'd be the Dragons second team not Cross keys but the Dragons prefer Cross Keys for some reason...
I'm just assuming Pontypool refuse to play ball with the Dragons.

Personally I don't think we should be tearing up the two professional sides. We're too far down the line with those and I think we should work with them rather than against them. They tried a 3rd region in the Borders and it didn't work. Mistakes were made when setting up the professional sides, but we can't go back in time.

Getting Edinburgh and Glasgow on a firmer footing are the key points in the list 1-4 and 8. They need grounds and facilities that are suitable and appropriate, and far more sophisticated and targeted marketing campaigns are needed to get the crowds up at these two clubs. This is the top priority for Scottish rugby. The national set-up is actually pretty good, with the right men in the right jobs. There is also good control over a number of key players. What is now needed is a focus on the two professional sides. They need to grow by any means possible. I'm all in favour of an increased focus on London Scottish in order to provide a home for Exiles in a different league, but not at any expense of the two professional sides north of the border.

McKie did some good things. He brought some hard nosed professionalism to the organisation, and most crucially made a stab at tackling the debt. However, as with all debt reduction programmes, the key is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and harm the possibilities for future growth. In this regard I think McKie has gone too far in shrinking the rugby capabilities and focusing too much on what should really be side track ventures (e.g. Murrayfield non-rugby usage). His replacement has an extremely tough balance to strike. Spending on increasing the revenue generating capabilities within Scottish rugby, but at the same time making sure SRU debts continue to shrink.

Despite McKie's objectionable nature, we need another strong man at the helm. I don't think Steele (despite the name) is that man. Baron in the Sunday Times this weekend made it quite clear that Steele has some qualities, but is generally more an amiable behind the scenes worker rather than an upfront strong leader. The SRU remains to a certain extent a carpeted domain for tweet clad old timers chocked full of vested interests. I'd be quite open to a non-Scot heading the organisation personally, a rugby man certainly, but someone without preconceptions.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Excellent article in the Scotsman today: 10 key areas

In summary, they identify 10 key areas for the SRU's new chief exec (tba) and the new chairman (Sir Moir Lockhead) to tackle:

1. Professional club future - deliver their autonomy & support commercial development;
   
2. Edinburgh's home ground - consider alternatives;
   
3. Edinburgh clubhouse - give the fans somewhere to go in the interim prior to a decision re 2 above;
   
4. Glasgow's home ground - Scotstoun over Firhill;
   
5. Murrayfield car park - picnics;
   
6. Matchday ticket sales - allow last minute purchases;
   
7. Player drain - find correct balance between creating space for the development of youngsters and retaining experienced talent;
   
8. Marketing - do some;
   
9. National team - appoint a DoR;
   
10. London Scottish - get involved.

What's missing explicitly from this list that will make it a whole lot easier to deliver is increase revenue! New Grounds, marketing, keeping our best platers in Scotland all cost money, and while we seem to have had enough money to waste on expensive carpets, funds are still limited.

I'm also not sure that many of the Glasgow fans would thank you for moving them from Firhill to Scotstoun! There have been numerous discussions around this on the Glasgow fans forum and the the most recent suggested that people would prefer to stay at Firhill. It's not just the fact it would put a running track between supporters and the game but the "pitch" does not have undersoil heating, drains poorly and has a concrete discus ring in what would be the dead ball area. While it does have a car park, there is not the on street parking that there is around Firhill. Boadwood, which has been suggested is not an option for the reasons already given, but also because according to info in the web its pitch is even smaller that that at Firhill! So the priorities for Glasgow may not be the same as for Edinburgh, and that's why more autonomy needs to be given to the teams.

I'm not convinced by the arguments for investing in London Scottish. At the moment we have the situation where some of our players choose to play in the English Prem or Championship. This has three downsides to it (1) it can weaken our pro-teams, (2) with weakened pro-teams crowds fall (3) the SRU loose control over when these players play and cannot call them into camp when they want. I don't see how adopting London Scottish as out third pro team would change any of that. Furthermore there's the problem that is London Scottish are to qualify for the payout from the league then they require to fulfil the requirements for English qualified players.

I think increasing revenue is behind the proposals to increase marketing (i.e. increasing crowd sizes thus ticket sales and merchandise sales increase) and the ground switching proposals (i.e. move to grounds of a suitable size or in a location more likely to increase crowd sizes - i.e. increase ticket sales).

Player drain isn't something I think you can directly address upfront. You have to improve the support and therefore the financial standing of the professional sides first. Spending the money it would take to develop those franchises on wages now would be short termist. There's certainly chicken and egg arguments here, but personally I have faith that players would be encouraged to stay if they felt that the clubs were improving and growing off the field. That's what ultimately leads clubs to generate revenue and accordingly be able to increase their spend on players. I'm not saying slash wages, what I'm saying is that if (for example) a player like Richie Gray were to demand huge wages (quite legitimately) above and beyond the other members of the squad, then I personally could forgive Glasgow and the SRU were they to say that they'd rather focus that cash on the club generally, rather than solely on one player. We've a long way to go in getting the pro sides more sustainable, so I think we just have to accept that an element of player drain is going to be inevitable.

I'm with you on London Scottish, whilst I'm a big fan of the project and I can see it's potential significance, we're not rolling in money and there have to be priorities, and for me the domestic game - the two professional sides - has to be the priority.

Just to let you know, I'm following this conversation with interest. Particularly so since I was accused of having a downer on the Scots (which I don't)

https://www.606v2.com/t7587-your-country-in-2015

Out of interest, how much pull does Scotland have on the exiles team?*

But the heart-searching and gnashing of teeth going on here doesn't encourage me to revise my view that Scotland is flat-lining.

Is the franchise route really the way forward? Overall Scottish rugby seemed in much ruder health when it was the clubs that produced the players and the interest.

*don't bother to answer that I'll write an article.

Franchise route? Dont forget that Scotland has long had district teams (Glasgow, Edinburgh, North & Midlands, & Borders), so the move to 4 pro teams based on our districts wasn't that radical. However, it wasn't entirely successful as we have now seen borne out over the best part of a decade. What was interesting about the district teams was that there wasn't an exact mapping from club to district, from memory it was based on player characteristics ie a player in Edinbrurgh playing club rugby for Heriots could appear for North & Midlands. But our real problems were mainly financial in nature

Names have a lot to do with it too, hence we say The Scarlets instead of Llanelli Scarlets

That's why the borders team folded, there were too many club loyalties to the likes of Jed, Kelso, Gala and Melrose that coming together and forming the Borders did not work. People felt loyalty more to their club rather than their district.

There was the bones for 4 Pro Teams in Scotland and we have had them in the past. Cally Reds, Border Reivers, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

If I were to go down that route again I would have the same sort of Structure.

Northern : Everything north of the Tay River
Lothains/Fife : Self Explanitory
West of Scotland : Self Explanitory
The Borders : Self explanitory.

Keep the club structures in Place playing regularly and promote from clubs in the designated catchment area to populate the pro teams.... simples

(I think)

As Asbo pointed out it's cash that is the killer. The SRU would need a cash injection of millions to pull it off. Rest assure should I win the Euromillions on friday I'll be sure to invest.

The problem Radge for me is that even if we could find the dream investor to set up the structure you suggest, would the support be there to make the ventures sustainable in the long-term? If Edinburgh can't turn a profit, I'm not sure I'd hold out much hope for the Caley Reds. I'm just not sure we'd get the week in week out support needed for four sides, let alone be able to pay the sort of wages to entice the exiles home and make the sides competitive.

As for the clubs, yes, things were better then, but that was back in the amateur days. It's a different world now, and regional pro sides were frankly the only way forward in the professional era. The problem wasn't the concept, it was the execution, which made very little linkage from the old to the new, and thus carried very little of the key support with it.

On a side to Portnoy, our pro sides have generally been a mess for the last decade, and yet I'd argue our national XV is better than it was at the start of the decade, and we certainly have a larger pool of players to pick from. So domestic troubles don't always lead to failure at the international level. There are enough exiles now playing top rugby to act as a hedge against the implosion of our domestic game.