Your country in 2015

England: For the first time in ten years there's hope on the horizon with a crop of (hopefully) talented youngsters looks good for the country's prospects. But structural problems in the Jeff seem to disadvantage the sides at the highest (HEC) European level. The wage cap falls between two stools - too high for the lower sides and too meagre to compete with the likes of France and (with no helpful restriction on player game time) Ireland.

France: This is France I'm talking about. So prepare for every conceivable outcome. It is entirely and equally possible that they'll sack everyone in sight at national whether they win the RWC 2011 or fall at the first hurdle. And then appoint a new management team based on le Lotto. At club level they will probably vie with Ireland in the HEC but probably the billionaire syndrome will abate and a more sensible wage cap will emerge. But there again, it may not. The National side will not finish below 3rd in the 6Ns before 2015 (unless they do). Don't firkin ask me. Ask Nostradamus - he was French.

Ireland: The so-called golden generation will be virtually gone after the RWC but there seems to be a useful successor plan in train. And they have all the benefits that England lack - control of players, no wage caps and a structure which the other ML teams would be best advised to emulate if they are convinced of their commitment to franchises.

Scotland and Italy: Controversial to bundle them together. I predict that both will flat-line in all areas. For Scotland because they just don't have the support in it's footy-mad heartlands. They've lost their roots and desire it seems. Italy on the other hand will continue to plod. No chance at side level and the continuance of the odd flash result it national level. By 2015 I wouldn't be surprised to see them both fighting a rearguard action to avoid a multi-tier European national league of 3Ns played home and away.

Wales: Wales will continue to go up and down like a whore's drawers. If they properly and fully integrate on the Irish model, then that would be better. But old club allegiances seem to simmer somehow (and as an Englishman I can empathise). I predict that Wales will win a 6Ns and even an HEC all bracketed with the black clouds of despair. That's Wales for you.

I can't disagree with your summary of Wales at all there!

I'd be over the moon if we won a HC and 6N in the space of the next four years. Add to that at least one win over a big 3 side and I'd call it progress.

Scotland and Wales and England More effort should be put into stadia that ft the fan base.

And that goes as equally to London bonanza give-always as to the mega-stadia in Wales and Scotland.

You'd need to pay people to fill the venues. I know that the phrase is '3's a crowd' but that should not be taken literally.

Lack of incite Portnoys.

Your synopsis of England is like reading an over excited Stuart Barnes blog. You type-cast all the other nations.

Priorities

England: Deal with the salary cap issue.

France: Don't let big money damage the national team and drain the talent from other nations.

Ireland: Sort out Connacht.

Wales: Get people in the gates to the regions games.

Scotland: Revive the domestic game. Big job.

Italy: Get the best Italian players all playing in Italy.

maesteg, don't know about you but to me looks like an honest opinion from an Englishman. If it was me or you writing about Wales I think it'd look similar, no overboard arrogance but nevertheless no bother restraining that glimmer of hope that is in all of us.

Besides, 6N champs and two in a row over Australia does look more promising than anything since 2003 for England

maestegmafia wrote:Lack of incite Portnoys.

Your synopsis of England is like reading an over excited Stuart Barnes blog. You type-cast all the other nations.

That would be the day when I agreed with the pillock Barnes. Tell me an example of when he even remotely challenged the English status quo. You are talking Love sacks*.

*that will get cleaned up by the board software.

By 2015 we'll probably be half full of foreingers...not just quarter full....

GeordieFalcon wrote:By 2015 we'll probably be half full of foreingers...not just quarter full....

Couldn't agree more Geordie. I went when I discovered that Waldrom had been included in the training squad.

We've got our own kids. Pray why don't we use them?

It's not as though we are as badly set up as we were in 2004-8.

England have An influx of young players, something that they haven't had for a long time. Together they have played some decent rugby in patches, usually against Australia. But they steadily looked increasingly ordinary during the six nations, culminating in falling at the final hurdle. There is a good amount of talent progressing from the under 20s, but England will be lacking experienced players in 2015.
They lost track after 2003, they are still rebuilding and will be for another seven years until their current crop of influential youngsters become the experienced core of a very good team. Quarter finalists in 2015, maybe semis or finals again in 2019.

France need to blood a lot of youth over the next four years, they also need to encourage their clubs, as Leivremont keeps requesting, to raise the amount of French players regularly selected in their domestic league. It is 65% French at the moment.
French youth rugby is not spectacular, though French players have a history of maturing in their mid twenties. Quarter Finalists maybe worst!

Ireland, the golden generation will gradually retire during the next few years but they have spurned a massive development in Irish rugby that sees phenomenally talented players take the stage almost annually. Just think about how influential or impressive players like sexton and O'Brien are. There will be more. Irish rugby is on the rise. Semi finalists.

Italy have some talented young players, actually Italian born too. Benvenuti, canavosio ( i think thats the correct name) the under 20s scrum half, their current under 20s front five are impressive too.
They won't set the world alight but every year they become mire and more impressive. I expect them to overtake Argentina by 2015.

Scotland don't need huge resources, the SRU are a canny bunch who, though they have made bizarre decisions over the last ten years are starting to work out how they can operate in the modern era. The youth set up in Scotland is good, under pinned by good rugby schools mentoring good talent.
I don't see Scotland changing the world but I do see them becoming a better side. Quarter Finalists.

Wales have displayed a hood ability to inject new youth talent into an evolving senior squad. 70% of their current squad are under 26. They have some talented young players in their current group and the senior players are looking to move on. Welsh rugby fell to pieces in the eighties and nineties and we are still recovering, we still will be in four years time. But there are huge signs of optimism in welsh rugby, there is structure and the sctructure is improving, and proving dividends. Quarter finals in 2015, semis in 2019.

Right an indepth (ish) look at Ireland. Also given I need to look 4 years down the line please bear in mind much of this is gut feeling.

Prop - I expect in 4 years for Paddy McAllister and Cian Healy to both be excellent options on the loose. Hagan will no doubt have developed into a worthy tight head under the pupilage of Mike Ross and Greg Feek at Leinster. However we lack depth after him. Stephen Archer, Stewart Maguire and possibly even Peter Borlase look the most likely options at backup.

Hooker - I would expect to see Sean Cronin as our first choice with Niall Annett, Mike Sherry, Damien Varley and possibly Richardt Strauss in or around the squad too.

Lock - the loss of so many experienced locks will be telling. Munsters Donnacha Ryan will lead the charge along with Dan Tuohy. I also think Andrew Browne will develop into an excellent player possibly moving to Leinster in a season or two. Ian Nagle at Musnter as well as Ulsters Stevenson remains an option. the postion with most rebuilding needed.

Flanker - Young as he is very hard to see Ferris fit in 4 years. O'Brien and Faloon are likely possibilities though O'Mahony, O'Donnell, Ryan, and Gallagher remain options. A 33 year old Shane Jennings is a dark horse.

Number 8 - I expect the experienced Jamie Heaslip to be in the driver seat. Maybe even Sean O'Brien. Paddy Butler at Munster doesn't look the man to me and I don't see the options in our current U20 crop.

Scrumhalf - O'Leary, Murray and O'Donoghue. Hard to tell who is will be starting.

Flyhalf - I know having finally displaced ROG the smart money is on Sexton but Jackson and Keatley are other possibilities.

Left Wing - I see Keith Earls keeping his 11 shirt. Simon Zebo is a maybe.

Inside Centre - its a toss up for me. Fergus McFadden versus Luke Marshall. Hanrahan is a possibility but hard to see him out stepping these boys.

Outside Centre - a left field suggestion. Luke Fitzgerald is my dark horse pick here. Nevin Spence, Keith Earls and the likes of Griffin, O'Malley, Macken and the other untested options remain.

Right Wing - Craig Gilroy of ulster is an extremely impressive player who runs fantastic lines and I'd back him for here.

Fullback - looks like a mix of Andrew Conway, Rob Kearney and Felix Jones.

My proposed squad of 22 in 2015:

Healy, Cronin, Hagan
Ryan, Browne
O'Brien, Heaslip, Faloon
Murray, Sexton
Marshall, Fitzgerald
Earls, Jones, Gilroy

Annett, McAllister, Archer, Tuohy, Ryan, O'Donoghue, Keatley, Conway

I won't either agree nor disagree with you Maesteg,

I broke one of my own rules in posting the article.

You just can't guess what will happen in four years' time.

I can however confidently predict that there will be a number of influential stars that no-one will have heard of yet.

maestegmafia wrote:England have An influx of young players, something that they haven't had for a long time. Together they have played some decent rugby in patches, usually against Australia. But they steadily looked increasingly ordinary during the six nations, culminating in falling at the final hurdle. There is a good amount of talent progressing from the under 20s, but England will be lacking experienced players in 2015.
They lost track after 2003, they are still rebuilding and will be for another seven years until their current crop of influential youngsters become the experienced core of a very good team. Quarter finalists in 2015, maybe semis or finals again in 2019.

France need to blood a lot of youth over the next four years, they also need to encourage their clubs, as Leivremont keeps requesting, to raise the amount of French players regularly selected in their domestic league. It is 65% French at the moment.
French youth rugby is not spectacular, though French players have a history of maturing in their mid twenties. Quarter Finalists maybe worst!

Ireland, the golden generation will gradually retire during the next few years but they have spurned a massive development in Irish rugby that sees phenomenally talented players take the stage almost annually. Just think about how influential or impressive players like sexton and O'Brien are. There will be more. Irish rugby is on the rise. Semi finalists.

Italy have some talented young players, actually Italian born too. Benvenuti, canavosio ( i think thats the correct name) the under 20s scrum half, their current under 20s front five are impressive too.
They won't set the world alight but every year they become mire and more impressive. I expect them to overtake Argentina by 2015.

Scotland don't need huge resources, the SRU are a canny bunch who, though they have made bizarre decisions over the last ten years are starting to work out how they can operate in the modern era. The youth set up in Scotland is good, under pinned by good rugby schools mentoring good talent.
I don't see Scotland changing the world but I do see them becoming a better side. Quarter Finalists.

Wales have displayed a hood ability to inject new youth talent into an evolving senior squad. 70% of their current squad are under 26. They have some talented young players in their current group and the senior players are looking to move on. Welsh rugby fell to pieces in the eighties and nineties and we are still recovering, we still will be in four years time. But there are huge signs of optimism in welsh rugby, there is structure and the sctructure is improving, and proving dividends. Quarter finals in 2015, semis in 2019.

You don’t think four years is enough time for young players to become experienced? The problem after the 2003 world cup was that there was nobody to bring the young players through with continuity.

England do have a core of players in place for after the world cup. By 2015 the following players will be:

02. Dylan Hartley (will be 29/ currently has 28 caps)
03. Dan Cole (Will be 28/ currently has 16 caps)
04. Courtney Lawes (Will be 26/ currently has 8 Caps)
06. Tom Croft/ Tom Wood 29/ 24 Caps)

09: Ben Youngs (25/ 12 Caps)
10. Toby Flood (29/ 39 Caps)

11. Chris Ahton (29/ 9 Caps)
15. Ben Foden (29/ 15 Caps)

If you consider the average number of international games a season, quite a few of these players are going to be in their late 20’s and have around fifty caps by 2015. These guys should help bringing through the younger players. Perhaps they won’t be as good as we would hope, but there won’t be a repeat of post 2003.

red_stag wrote: ... All that stuff you wrote ...

I'd have a small wager that Sean O'Brien becomes World Player of the Year in the next two years. Maybe even RWC best player this year.

He is something seriously special.

Cumbrian wrote:
You don’t think four years is enough time for young players to become experienced? The problem after the 2003 world cup was that there was nobody to bring the young players through with continuity.

England do have a core of players in place for after the world cup. By 2015 the following players will be:

02. Dylan Hartley (will be 29/ currently has 28 caps)
03. Dan Cole (Will be 28/ currently has 16 caps)
04. Courtney Lawes (Will be 26/ currently has 8 Caps)
06. Tom Croft/ Tom Wood 29/ 24 Caps)

09: Ben Youngs (25/ 12 Caps)
10. Toby Flood (29/ 39 Caps)

11. Chris Ahton (29/ 9 Caps)
15. Ben Foden (29/ 15 Caps)

If you consider the average number of international games a season, quite a few of these players are going to be in their late 20’s and have around fifty caps by 2015. These guys should help bringing through the younger players. Perhaps they won’t be as good as we would hope, but there won’t be a repeat of post 2003.

Nope I think it took England two world cups, 95 and 99 to build towards the squad that won it, you could even say that the success in 2003 started with a big change of attitude by England in 1987, England started to finally, regularly punch their weight at the top table, beating the top international teams home and away.

I think the examples in your post prove exactly what I said, the talented core of young England players wont be experienced enough to lead England to a decent world cup performance. It will be similar to the performance in 1999. Undercooked.

Portnoy wrote:

red_stag wrote: ... All that stuff you wrote ...

I'd have a small wager that Sean O'Brien becomes World Player of the Year in the next two years. Maybe even RWC best player this year.

He is something seriously special.

Not while Jerome Kaino is playing in the same position he wont.

Great player but there are some cracking blind sides out there at the moment.

Portnoy wrote: I'd have a small wager that Sean O'Brien becomes World Player of the Year in the next two years. Maybe even RWC best player this year.

He is something seriously special.

He offers us something amazing - momentum and ball on the front foot. Like O'Connell, Spies or Chabel used do a bit. Thats something that really allows Leinsters backs to shine even with a fairly slow scrum half like Reddan.

The Wales team could have barely changed in 2015

1. Gethin Jenkins (34)
2. Matthew Rees (34)
3. Adam Jones (33)
4. Alun Wyn Jones (30)
5. Bradley Davies (28)
6. Dan Lydiate (27)
7. Sam Warburton (26)
8. Toby Faletau (25)
9. Rhys Webb (26) / Lloyd Williams (26)
10. James Hook (31)
11. George North (23)
12. Jonathon Davies (27)
13. Jamie Roberts (28)
14. Leigh Halfpenny (26)
15. Morgon Stoddart (30)

red_stag wrote:
My proposed squad of 22 in 2015:

Healy, Cronin, Hagan
Ryan, Browne
O'Brien, Heaslip, Faloon
Murray, Sexton
Marshall, Fitzgerald
Earls, Jones, Gilroy

Annett, McAllister, Archer, Tuohy, Ryan, O'Donoghue, Keatley, Conway

Stag I'd imagine Best, Bowe, Reddan, O'Leary and Trimble will still be going strong in 2015. Also no mention here of Kevin McGlaughlin and Rhys Ruddock. I'm surprised that you think Fitzgerald will be 13, especially with Spence and O'Malley and also Barnes.

I'd have thought Nagle would be higher up the pecking order too.

Healy, Best/Strauss, McCallister
Nagle, Tuohy
O'Brien, Heaslip, Ryan/Faloon
Murray, Sexton
Marshall, Spence
Earls/Conway, Jones, Bowe/ Gilroy

O'Brien has the potential to be even better. Work on his lineout, work on his breakdown work- he could be sensational. A really sensational player. Right now he's brilliant- I want him to push on to the point anyone from any nation would love to have him. The way Ferris would if he could stay fit. I want the Aussies and Kiwis casting envious glances North. He has the ability, ho good does he want to be? The Heineken Cup was just the start.

Also, the competition for spots in the Irish back three come 2015 will be staggering. We'll be having real debates about experience and whether it's time to move on. The generation of Gilroy, Conway etc. is coming in fast. Dave Kearney and Simon Zebo, Nevin Spence could end up there, Conor Gaston, Tiernan O'Halloran.

But the likes of Trimble, Earls, Bowe and Fitzgerald will all still be around. Trimble and Bowe would be the oldest of them at 30/31. Could still have plenty left to offer.

In 2015 some very good wingers won't be able to make the 22 for Ireland.

Shame I'm not as confident about our tight five. We have plenty of fantastic backs coming through but we have big problems at lock and not the same depth at prop, hooker or even scrum-half.

red_stag wrote:

Portnoy wrote: I'd have a small wager that Sean O'Brien becomes World Player of the Year in the next two years. Maybe even RWC best player this year.

He is something seriously special.

He offers us something amazing - momentum and ball on the front foot. Like O'Connell, Spies or Chabel used do a bit. Thats something that really allows Leinsters backs to shine even with a fairly slow scrum half like Reddan.

He's so dangerous that he'll probably get spear tackled at the first opportunity. (Don't tell Kiwi I said that )

roddersm wrote:
Stag I'd imagine Best, Bowe, Reddan, O'Leary and Trimble will still be going strong in 2015. Also no mention here of Kevin McGlaughlin and Rhys Ruddock. I'm surprised that you think Fitzgerald will be 13, especially with Spence and O'Malley and also Barnes.

Ruddock!!! Thank You. I knew I was forgetting someone

Best will be 34
Reddan will be 34
O'Leary I have listed but I think will be 3rd choice
Trimble is behind the guys listed and I think Bowe who will be nearly 32 years old may lose out to a younger guy.

Fitzgerald is I admit a very strange selection but I can see it happening. Barnes no way.

. . . . .Also there is no player called McGlaughlin

red_stag wrote:
. . . . .Also there is no player called McGlaughlin

Yeah sorry no matter how hard I try I just can't get that one right , you know who I mean!

34 is not that old sir!

Notch wrote:O'Brien has the potential to be even better. Work on his lineout, work on his breakdown work- he could be sensational. A really sensational player. Right now he's brilliant- I want him to push on to the point anyone from any nation would love to have him. The way Ferris would if he could stay fit. I want the Aussies and Kiwis casting envious glances North. He has the ability, ho good does he want to be? The Heineken Cup was just the start.

Also, the competition for spots in the Irish back three come 2015 will be staggering. We'll be having real debates about experience and whether it's time to move on. The generation of Gilroy, Conway etc. is coming in fast. Dave Kearney and Simon Zebo, Nevin Spence could end up there, Conor Gaston, Tiernan O'Halloran.

But the likes of Trimble, Earls, Bowe and Fitzgerald will all still be around. Trimble and Bowe would be the oldest of them at 30/31. Could still have plenty left to offer.

In 2015 some very good wingers won't be able to make the 22 for Ireland.

Shame I'm not as confident about our tight five. We have plenty of fantastic backs coming through but we have big problems at lock and not the same depth at prop, hooker or even scrum-half.

That don't excite me much. England are parading as much talent as anyone.

And as I say, there will be stars in '15 that none of have heard of yet.

England to retain the 6Ns in '12 anyone?

No, I'm not bragging. I just think we'll have lots of good wingers. We'll be weaker in other areas. England and France will always have that same depth we'll have in the back three across the pitch.

Even if the Celtic Nations do well, England and France will always be there or thereabouts as the teams to beat

Four years time every side will probably have a sprinkling of players who are not even on the radar yet.

Time will tell Notch. Time will tell. But it will be a sad day if sheer numbers and cash made the difference.

Did you ever see that film Rollerball?

Squad could look like this..?

1. Gethin Jenkins (34) Paul James (32) Lewis Smout (23) Rhodri Jones (23)

2. Matthew Rees (34) Ken Owens (32) Kirby Myhill (23)

3. Adam Jones (33) Craig Mitchell (29) Simon Gardiner (25) Will Taylor (24)

4. Alun Wyn Jones (30) Aaron Shingler (28) Macauley Cook (24)

5. Bradley Davies (28) Damien Welch (27) Cory Hill (23)

6. Dan Lydiate (27) Rob McCusker (30) Ed Siggery (24)

7. Sam Warburton (26) Justin Tuperic (25) Tom Young (23) Josh Turnbull (27)

8. Toby Faletau (25) Ben Morgan (24) Ben Thomas (24)

9. Tavis Knoyle (24) Rhys Webb (26) / Lloyd Williams (26) Jonathan Evans (22)

10. James Hook (31) Rhys Priestland (28) Jason Tovey (24) Matthew Morgan (22) Steven Shingler (23)

11. George North (23) Harry Robinson (24) Dale Ford (23)

12. Jonathon Davies (27) Gavin Henson (32) Rhys Llewellyn (24)

13. Scot Williams (25) Jamie Roberts (28) Owen Williams (23)

14. Leigh Halfpenny (26) Iolo Williams (23) Eli Walker (23)

15. Stephan Jones (25) Dan Fish (25) Liam Williams (24) Tom Prydie (24)

Impressive looking welsh squad there but you left out Henson, Phillips and Dan Biggar...... :run2:

roddersm wrote:Impressive looking welsh squad there but you left out Henson, Phillips and Dan Biggar...... :run2:

I didnt leave out Henson

At which time I believe he will actually be 33.

Which is a very sad waste of a once great potential.

Portnoy wrote:At which time I believe he will actually be 33.

Which is a very sad waste of a once great potential.

Why is 33 "a very sad waste of a once great potential" ? ? ?

I remember it being a fruitful age for myself...!

maestegmafia wrote:
Nope I think it took England two world cups, 95 and 99 to build towards the squad that won it, you could even say that the success in 2003 started with a big change of attitude by England in 1987, England started to finally, regularly punch their weight at the top table, beating the top international teams home and away.

I think the examples in your post prove exactly what I said, the talented core of young England players wont be experienced enough to lead England to a decent world cup performance. It will be similar to the performance in 1999. Undercooked.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I personally don’t believe that something has to work a certain way because it has happened before. The rugby world is a lot different place than it was in 1999. The English set up is a lot more professional than it was then and the academies are producing a better standard of player.

I’m not saying that we will win the world cup in 2015. I am saying that I don’t think experience will be such an issue. We are more likely to lose it down to there being better teams, than because of a lack of personal experience. I mean, like I said before, there is going to be a good 50% squad playing in their prime, with upwards of fifty caps. That is enough experience at the right time, for me.

wales606 wrote:The Wales team could have barely changed in 2015

1. Gethin Jenkins (34)
2. Matthew Rees (34)
3. Adam Jones (33)
4. Alun Wyn Jones (30)
5. Bradley Davies (28)
6. Dan Lydiate (27)
7. Sam Warburton (26)
8. Toby Faletau (25)
9. Rhys Webb (26) / Lloyd Williams (26)
10. James Hook (31)
11. George North (23)
12. Jonathon Davies (27)
13. Jamie Roberts (28)
14. Leigh Halfpenny (26)
15. Morgon Stoddart (30)

true would be a very experienced side that could just grow however i think there is a lad who most people wont know about who may not be in the wales set up but i think he will develop into one of those special players. RHYS WILLIAMS- capped at u16 can play anywhere in the backline and is going to the leicester acadamey next year-he is seriously good, i have played with him since the age of 8 or so and he is something special, however at 20 i think 2015 he will be a bit too young for wales but he is a future star.

but anyway that back row would be amazing, lydiate, warbuton and Toby F all have the capabillities to be world class and that would be a strong unit by 2015

maestegmafia wrote:
Nope I think it took England two world cups, 95 and 99 to build towards the squad that won it, you could even say that the success in 2003 started with a big change of attitude by England in 1987, England started to finally, regularly punch their weight at the top table, beating the top international teams home and away.

I think the examples in your post prove exactly what I said, the talented core of young England players wont be experienced enough to lead England to a decent world cup performance. It will be similar to the performance in 1999. Undercooked.

Cumbrian wrote:You’re entitled to your opinion, but I personally don’t believe that something has to work a certain way because it has happened before. The rugby world is a lot different place than it was in 1999. The English set up is a lot more professional than it was then and the academies are producing a better standard of player.

More professional not necessarily working better, England do rely a hell of a lot on talent, coached and educated abroad.

Cumbrian wrote:I’m not saying that we will win the world cup in 2015. I am saying that I don’t think experience will be such an issue. We are more likely to lose it down to there being better teams, than because of a lack of personal experience. I mean, like I said before, there is going to be a good 50% squad playing in their prime, with upwards of fifty caps. That is enough experience at the right time, for me.

When England won the world cup in 2003 the backrow alone had 194 Caps the second row 127... Wilkinson and Dawson had 109 between them...

welshy824 wrote:true would be a very experienced side that could just grow however i think there is a lad who most people wont know about who may not be in the wales set up but i think he will develop into one of those special players. RHYS WILLIAMS- capped at u16 can play anywhere in the backline and is going to the leicester acadamey next year-he is seriously good, i have played with him since the age of 8 or so and he is something special, however at 20 i think 2015 he will be a bit too young for wales but he is a future star.

Certainly looks like a talent. Looks like there will be an abuse of the previously untapped Gog in Wales Rugby future?

i hope so, would benefit welsh rugby if north wales was utilised more.
This probably makes me as overrating him just because he is a mate,and i am probably being a bit biased but the wales caps etc does back it up.
BUT he is really talented at the age of 9 or so when most of us would turn up for training and a match and thats it, his dad made him do drills like carrying sandbags back and too and weaving in and out of objects. But i hope he does make it, would be nice to see a mate playing proffesionally (and also with the cost of tickets atm maybe a few free tickets every so often

[quote="welshy824"]

wales606 wrote:blah-de-blah ... but i think he will develop into one of those special players. RHYS WILLIAMS- capped at u16 can play anywhere in the back line and is going to the Leicester academy next year-he is seriously good... blah-de-blah

Thanks for the heads-up.

Always nice to have advance notice for the Tigers.

U16 is an early call, but if he's been spotted by the stripy ones, we might be able to make a decent England player of him.

[quote="Portnoy"]

welshy824 wrote:

wales606 wrote:blah-de-blah ... but i think he will develop into one of those special players. RHYS WILLIAMS- capped at u16 can play anywhere in the back line and is going to the Leicester academy next year-he is seriously good... blah-de-blah

Thanks for the heads-up.

Always nice to have advance notice for the Tigers.

U16 is an early call, but if he's been spotted by the stripy ones, we might be able to make a decent England player of him.

Thought you only did that to South Sea Islanders, Kiwis and South Africans?

Nah. Just like Wales nicking English kids mate.

Portnoy wrote:Nah. Just like Wales nicking English kids mate.

Hmmm...! I noticed English Kids recently turning down England offers whilst almost being able to qualify for Wales.

Simple really. If you wanted to get an easy cap, you'd chose Wales.

If you wanted to ....

No. I can't finish that. It's distasteful.

Night mate.

Portnoy wrote:Simple really. If you wanted to get an easy cap, you'd chose Wales.

If you wanted to ....

No. I can't finish that. It's distasteful.

Night mate.

Wales havent capped him, he just chose not to play for the saxons. You'll have to wait and see. Why England see ageing Easter and Kiwi Waldrom as their future rather than a dynamic young Englishman like Ben Morgan is a mystery.

My 30 man World Cup squad:
Sheridan, Corbisiero, Stevens, Cole
Hartley, Thompson, Chuter
Lawes, Palmer, Deacon, Shaw
Croft, Wood, Haskell, Moody, Easter

Youngs, Care, Simpson
Flood, Wilkinson, Hodgson
Hape, Tindall, Tuilagi
Ashton, Banahan, Cueto, Simpson-Daniel, Foden

I think the most crucial thing for England is not to lose all of the older players at once. Palmer and Wilkinson might go after the World Cup due to playing abroad, while Chuter and Shaw will probably retire from International rugby or be politely moved on. I wouldn't change much more than that. In the immediate future, Attwood and probably Botha to come into the second row, Mears at hooker and Twelvetrees to come in as a 12 who covers 10 in place of Wilkinson. If Deacon's injury worries persist, then Kitchener can come in. We can then add a back-row (Crane please, not Waldrom) and a full-back (Alex Goode please, not Armitage) to make a 32 man EPS.

Then, as Sheridan, Thompson, Deacon, Moody, Easter, Hape, Tindall and Cueto lose their place in the first team (as they eventually will over the next 4 years) and their replacements establish themselves they can be dropped out of the squad and younger form choices can be brought in. Players will be trialled in the Saxons and in extended tour squads to replace these guys, although it's hard to guess to far into the future.

The policy can't be that players x, y and z aren't going to make the 2015 World Cup so they need to be replaced. The team has to evolve naturally. So if we finish the World Cup with Corbisiero, Stevens and Cole as our 3 matchday 22 props and then over the 2011/12 season someone like Joe Marler has a storming season, he'll probably tour South Africa in the summer and could find himself in the 2012/13 EPS. However if Sheridan holds down a first team spot for a couple of years or there is no-one knocking on the door, then we can carry on with him. The same thing for all the other players on the list.

Personally I have high hopes for Banahan (as a winger) and Tuilagi and I also really rate our props, and hope they can break into the first team sooner than later. That would mean Cueto, Tindall and Sheridan (2 of whom spend a lot of time injured, the other [Cueto] who has never torn apart International defences) could quickly be moved on. The sooner Twelvetrees gets regular game time the better, as I would say Hape is the weakest link in our first team. Still, I'm sure Cockerill would love an England back-line of Youngs, Flood, Twelvetrees and Tuilagi!

I think we are going to open a can of worms with that (It has also been more than covered in the England squad thread), but one of the reasons I think a lot of England fans are upset is because they believe that the foreign born players aren’t needed.

Although it is worth noting that a lot of the foreign born players in the squad came through the English academy system like Alex Corbisero, Manu Tuilagi, Paul Doran-Jones, Delon Armitage and Dylan Hartley. The ones who didn't being Botha, Fourie, Flutey and Hape. Stevens came here at 18 to study and his father is English.

The academies were only set up in 2002 and the first successful generations came through in 2006 with Tom Croft, they are really starting to bare fruit now.

Regarding the number of caps.

When England won the world cup they were on the wane, a year before, that final wouldn’t have gone to extra time. I still don’t think experience is everything. Take the SA team that won the last world cup. I can’t be bothered searching for how many caps they had at the time. But the following are the current number of caps of the team that started that day. Baring in mind that this was four years and many games ago.

Bakkies Botha, (74 Caps)
Victor Matfield, (105 caps)
Schalk Burger (63 Caps)
Juan Smith, (69 Caps)
Danie Roussouw. (54 Caps)

Fourie Du Preez (55 Caps)
Butch James (40 caps)

Even if you are conservative about how much these players have played in the last four years you’d have to say that at the time of 2007 they wouldn’t have had masses of caps in the way England did.

I don’t want to completely underplay the importance of experience, I just don’t think that is the be all and end all.

Portnoy wrote:England: For the first time in ten years there's hope on the horizon with a crop of (hopefully) talented youngsters looks good for the country's prospects. But structural problems in the Jeff seem to disadvantage the sides at the highest (HEC) European level.

Wasn't there an English side winning at halftime in the HC final? If the AP is such a disadvantage it will be a pretty boring HC if we ever get things fixed.

maestegmafia wrote:When England won the world cup in 2003 the backrow alone had 194 Caps the second row 127... Wilkinson and Dawson had 109 between them...

England had a lot of experience in 2003 and were probably a side in slight decline. They just about had enough ability left to win the tournament, but you certainly don't need that much experience to win a WC. We'll have plenty of players in their late 20's by 2015 and that is enough experience.

Obviously just a guess at this stage, but I can currently imagine a starting line-up of:

Foden, Ashton, Trinder, Twelvetrees, Benjamin, Farrell, Youngs, Marler, Hartley, Thomas, Lawes, Kitchener, Croft, Kvesic, Gray

Although it could be:

Ransom, Sharples, Tuilagi, Daly, Banahan, Flood, Simpson, Corbisero, Gray, Cole, Attwood, Gaskell, Wood, Johnson, Fearns

Or,

Goode, Strettle, Joseph, Guy Armitage, Homer, Ford, Care, Vunipola, Hayward, Stevens, Launchbury, Robson, Gibson, Clark, Narraway

And there are other highly gifted players like Burns, May, Brookes and Mercer. By 2015 there will be huge competition for places, and an excellent balance of youth and experience. Even this far out I can say that England, with home advantage, will be expecting to at least make the final.

Portnoy wrote:U16 is an early call, but if he's been spotted by the stripy ones, we might be able to make a decent England player of him.

na mate his dad would kill him if he did that, you see us welshmen/women have a thing called allegiance

i say all this now i hope he actually suceeds not just because it would be good to see him do so but i will feel like a complete fool if he doesnt

Yes no Welsh player has ever defected to play for another country. Not ever.

https://www.606v2.com/t7312-ireland-take-wales-to-irb-over-loxton-and-jarvis-eligibility-row

NZ in 2015
NZ will be ranked no.1 in rugby after winning the 4 nations 8 -0 and completing a Grand Slam
Cruden will be the best no.10 of all time.
Sonny Bill will be the best no. 12 of all time.
Matt Todd will be the best no.7 of all time
Richie McCaw will be the best no. 6 of all time.

NZ will then lose to France in the RWC semifinal and England and the Celtic countries will call us chokers and poachers.