Dragons Close in on Andy Tuilagi

Seen in the paper today we are looking to finalise a deal on Andy Tuilagi from Sale. Any Sale fans able to shed some light on this fella?

Not a sale fan but i read up on him when he was released as i thought he could be a potential signing for a magners team, he has scored 3 tries in over 40 games for Sale which isnt really a great return for a centre/winger, but he is still only 25 and given his size he is bound to cause defences problems.

He could well be a good signing and become a crowd favourite but i doubt he would come cheap and think they would be better off spending the money to bulk up there front 5.

OK this guy comes from a healthy pedigree, most of his brothers played for the tigers.
However he only lasted 1 season there then moved onto Leeds where he spent two seasons before playing 3 seasons with Sale Sharks. They ended his contract early.
Not in the same league as his siblings, he plays wing/centre but like all Samoans is a tough tackler, he is 25/6 and he could well fit in at RP maybe replacing Brew when he's away.

mpc28 wrote:

He could well be a good signing and become a crowd favourite but i doubt he would come cheap and think they would be better off spending the money to bulk up there front 5.

Have to say I disagree. Dragons forwards have bee na handful, at least in the lose for a couple of years now but what lets them down is predictable back play. Only Breew has posed a serious threat so getting backs to strengthen their squad makes sense to me.

It has never quite worked for him but he's a decent player and was rated highly in the Tigers academy... and he's still rated by his brothers as being the most talented of the Tuilagi family, he's just not been able to show it playing first team rugby though. At worst he's a good, solid big man in the centres and at best perhaps the Dragons's coaches will be the ones who are finally able to get him playing up to his potential in which case he'll be a very good player

geoff998rugby wrote:

mpc28 wrote:

He could well be a good signing and become a crowd favourite but i doubt he would come cheap and think they would be better off spending the money to bulk up there front 5.

Have to say I disagree. Dragons forwards have bee na handful, at least in the lose for a couple of years now but what lets them down is predictable back play. Only Breew has posed a serious threat so getting backs to strengthen their squad makes sense to me.

I just feel that a weakness of the Dragons is the scrum, i think a few more than just Brew has posed a threat, i thought Adam Hughes had an outstanding season and im hoping he gets a go in the centre soon and i thought Tom Riley and Ashley Smith both had good seasons.

I think it's good in a sense that it allows us to finally be able to alternate our attacking play between hard running and running into space. Ashley Smith and Adam Hughes are good players but neither can really do crash ball. This hopefully will allow this dimension into our attack now.

I just hope we don't do a 'Wales' and rely on him to create everything a la Jamie Roberts, and mix it up with some clever decoy running!

It's one thing we need is a bit of a bosh guy at 12. Ash Smith is not a bad player for us, but we do need more of a presence when we play away from RP. He has to pass a stringent medical on his broken arm first doesn't he.

I remember the Sale game in January (just) and he seemed a handful then. His scoring rate isn't very good granted, but Dragons are building a reputation as a running team, so it'll be interesting to see how he buys into that.

It has to be a good signing. We've been desperate for a ball carrier in midfield and we are also quite weak defensively against teams with big midfield runners. Smiths a great tackler but homer Davies and Riley have been a weak link.
We do need to beef up our front five and are desperate for a top tight head, but according to reports we may have to wait a season.
Our back-line with Tovey 10, tuilagi, smith, Hughes, brew, harries or m. Thomas does now look stronger.
Its going to be small steps with a limited budget, but one area of concern looks like it's being addressed.

snoopster wrote:Perhaps the Dragons's coaches will be the ones who are finally able to get him playing up to his potential in which case he'll be a very good player

Here's hoping so. He'll certainly be coming in to a squad with real camaraderie and enthusiasm. If he really buys in to the Dragons' philosophy he could become a crowd favourite.

The Dragons have a few young props on their books dont they? I know they have Dan Watchurst who captained Wales u-20's last year. How have they been getting on at their clubs?

Lets face it he is a Tuilangi, so you can pretty much tell what he is all about. He will add so extra bulk in the Dragons back line, but will also add another volitile element when it comes to defence and pens.

That said he is not a bad gamble really

I think the dragons are desperate for five or six new players. They definately need some help up front, their scrum has suffered all year and teams that go backwards here generally struggle to win games. I really like the prop Gustafson, has a great work rate around the field but seems to get a bit tuned at scrum time. I would say they need a good hard nosed tight head (maybe look at some of these Argentinian boys who love it), a additional back rower or two. Think the back row at the moment is class but with the world cup and international call ups some strong replacements are needed, along with a pair of cenr=tres to add into the mix to be able to change the game plan and to offer again some support should players like Smith get injured.
Are there any other transfer rumours??

I heard from my very reliable source, that we won't be recruiting much more in terms of the pack at least for a while anyway. The dragons had an awful pre-season last year and the main focus this year is to work on areas that were weak, i.e scrum.

I heard that we are also chasing a south african winger, who's had a couple of caps.

I think its good that they will work on the weal areas but surely after releasing 16 players , new faces will be needed. really hope the Dragons get the results they deserve this year, but don't see the need for a winger, money could be spent better elsewhere in the squad.

SkippingPig - Whilst I can see why you think the Dragons should go out and splash the cash looking to bolster the pack, I am not too sure that would be wise. The Dragons appear to be on the road of developing as a unit, and using the feeder teams to fill in gaps that are required (due to injuries/call ups), and I have a feeling that if they started to bring in too many outsiders then they may end up rocking the apple cart. I think that if they can keep their 'we are a team' attitude going, and avoid too many long lay-offs (which has happened this season) that the squad and system the Dragons have in place will pay dividends, if not next season definately for the one after.

Will Harris will be out until the new year and Aled Brew may possibly get called up for the Welsh squad, also Thomas the FB will be out until maybe Jan so we are a bit short on options. We have a couple of academy boys in Pewtner and Poole but neither has had much experience.

I don't think the Dragons expected to get 5/6 players into the Welsh set up and has forced them to change their recruitment policy. Not saying all these will go to NZ but they have to cover just incase.

Even though we have some injuries, Adam Hughes has played a lot on the wing and steffan jones looked more than comfortable at 15, so I too feel we need a TH desperately. Most teams will be short during the WC and will be making do in certain positions and once harries and brew return you would wonder why we would need a wing. Strength in depth Is great, but shoring up our scrum is a necessity.

Scarlet - I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, and they developing very nicely but to release so many players they will need replacing. Now i do think they would have to go abroad to get a good tight head but there are many welsh players on the scene who should fit into the Dragons and their "Us against the world" mentality which i think is great and has worked dividends for the likes of Pontypridd for years. I think if they recruit wisely then they can strengthen well without having to spend money on has been imports, for example the flanker Waters signed from Ponty is a great player who should fit in and develop well.
But for me I don't see why the likes of Daf Hewitt at the blues is happy to play second fiddle in his side when he could go to the Dragons and prove a point.....just an opinion.

Saw him play against the Dragons in the LV= last season. Record suggests he's not quite on the same level as Alesana, Henry, Manu etc but purely from what I saw, still a beast to tackle.

Skippingpig makes a very good point. 16 players is a lot to lose from the squad. I'm of the mind that tighthead is a top priority. The players we've brought in at prop over the past few seasons have not delivered, but then they were never big names in the first place. Ali McKenzie, Nigel Hall, Ben Castle (although a bit better towards the end of the season), Hugh Gustafson (although still time to develop), Peter Bracken sort of did a job but was so slow around the pitch that he left big gaps in defence. The young lads Way and Price look good and will hopefully be the future but I feel we need some experience to bring them on and allow is not to overly rely on them at this early stage in their careers.

Centre is also where I've said we should strengthen so Tuiliagi is a good move for me. 3 tries in 40 odd appearances is a little worrying, but I like the option of a 'basher' if a running game isn't working. When we get the ball out to the wings we look dangerous but are perhaps a bit predictable in midfield.

Just as a side question for any props out there. What affect does a lack of 'grunt' and push from the second row have on scrum power? I've heard that Charteris is unable to get a good pushing position due to his height and so arches his back meaning he has little pushing power in the scrum. You often see him with his butt in the air and his back pointing downwards rather than a straight back. I wonder if this is contributing to the dragons' scrummaging problems, and I think he played the Baa Baas game too and the scrum struggled there also. Could be a coincidence, but it makes sense to me that a lack of power from 1 second row could destabilise the scrum.

IMO it's wasted money. We don't need another winger/center we need a top class T/Head or a dog of 2nd row.

bedfordwelsh wrote:IMO it's wasted money. We don't need another winger/center we need a top class T/Head or a dog of 2nd row.

I agree. Where the dragons need to invest is in a classy forwards coach and a top notch defensive coach. They play great rugby but their set piece and defence are weak.

Don't see it as wasted money, as long as we strengthen at prop and like Bedford said in the 2nd row. We are weak in midfield. Thank the lord gormless Davies has gone and riley's too lightweight at the top level. Just look at the blues game. Brew was constantly coming off his wing to make tackles in midfield. We got away with it, because dai young is too inept to take advantage of the space brew was leaving while he was at the bottom of a ruck.
We do need and have needed a tighthead for a while now and surely we can't have another season where we don't have an advantage in the scrum against anyone. How many pen tries do we concede?

Maesteg. Our scrum is weak. Our line-out is prob the strongest of all the regions. Surely tuilagi will help defensively. Our forwards are great defensively but weve struggled playing Riley or gormless at 13 as they are constantly targeted for their poor defense. But as all dragons fans know we need a tighthead and maybe that was a bigger priority.

To be fair to Nigel Hall, if we can keep him fit then he's not too bad as a scrummager. Phil Price generally does well on the loosehead side, so there's no problem there. I think the point raised about the height of our locks is fair.

One thing I noticed when watching away games on the box is that our props try to take the scrum down very low, but to me it looks too awkward. Obviously doing that isn't going to help Long Dog either.

Cheers Risca. I'm no scrum expert (except when I'm shouting from the sidelines or shouting at the TV!) so hadn't really noticed the low scrum position of our boys. Is it a tactic for a smaller front row over a larger one (as in height) so they can put the opposition into a weaker angled down position? I think I've heard that taking the scrum down low against Sheridan is a tactic as it means he's got to bend over as opposed to scrummaging straight or upwards. Like I say, I'm not expert but sound plausible!

Scarlet. On Hewitt I couldn't agree more. The guys nearly 26 and what's he achieved. Another player in the comfort zone and I doubt will reach his potential. I always slated sowden Taylor for doing the same, but he eventually left when warburtom came through and showed what I'd always thought. It was all hype and he wasn't up to much. Look at players like mustoe. He was 1st choice at the dragons, but is happy to be a bit part player for the blues. Daf Hewitt is talked about being a welsh centre, but just like bishop, they're no more than decent regional players and I wouldn't be fussed on signing either of them. Just look at Ashley smith. He's played a load of games for the dragons and is only about 23. IMO he'll end up captaining the dragons and will be our record appearance maker.

manofgwent wrote:Maesteg. Our scrum is weak. Our line-out is prob the strongest of all the regions. Surely tuilagi will help defensively. Our forwards are great defensively but weve struggled playing Riley or gormless at 13 as they are constantly targeted for their poor defense. But as all dragons fans know we need a tighthead and maybe that was a bigger priority.

Your line out isn't better than the Ospreys or Scarlets MoG.

None of the regions have particularly decent lineouts though the above mentioned are all better than they were. Room for improvement all round.

it is not just a leaker center that is the issue with the Dragons defence, they rely far too much on the back row for support.

Griff, it is generally yeah. The way we do it just seems wrong though. Instead of being set low, our front row bends over pretty late. It looks so unnatural.

I'm sure the Dragons will do a lot of scrummaging practise this summer, but I remember Ben Castle saying the same thing last year. I'd love for us to get hold of a decent tighthead, but I think we are stuck with what we have. Dan Way is young enough to be developed and as I said, I think Nigel Hall is solid enough if fit (that's a big problem though).

One of the dragons strength is their line-out. The scarlets line-out is their Achilles heal. Nigel Davies more or less admits as much and as for the ospreys?!?!
Dragons v ospreys
Burns (cross keys hooker) v Bennett (rubbish but numerous caps)
Adam jones (npt lock) and Andrew Coombs (npt back row) v
Ryan jones and AW jones.
Result. Dragons dominated.
Charteris may not be used much in the line for Wales but as I said our line outs just fine.
You're right though the blues line out ain't up to much with Gareth Williams throwing in.
I'd love to see some stats on success rates for the regions if anyone has them.

Also how worrying that prem players out performed what could possibly be the welsh line-out in the WC. Says all you need to know about the welsh game. Reputations are everything. Anyone else think AW Jones still has a he'll of a lot to prove?

manofgwent wrote:Also how worrying that prem players out performed what could possibly be the welsh line-out in the WC.

What are you on about ?

Read the first post. The dragons dominated the ospreys line out. Bennett throwing to sideways jones and AWJ. Those 3 could represent Wales when they couldn't get the better of 3 prem players in the same position. That's what's worrying!

manofgwent wrote:Anyone else think AW Jones still has a he'll of a lot to prove?

I certainly think he's overrated by some (but not by as many as overrate Bradley Davies). He'll improve as time goes on, but then he'll need to.

Bradley Davies. They call him an impact player. The only thing he impacts on are the handling error stats. Some players can do no wrong. Can't imagine the stick big bird charters would have taken If he threw that shocking pass against Italy. As somebody posted a while back. You wouldn't trust him to hold your baby!

Man of Gwent, it's true - and some players, Charteris among them, can do no right.