Ulster squad additions

by geoff998rugby Tue 21 Jun 2011 - 12:27

First topic message reminder :

All of the following will be contracted to Ulster next year - I don't know the nature of each contract though

Niall Annett
Jerry Cronin
Craig Gilroy
Paddy Jackson
Adam Macklin
Luke Marshall
James McKinney
Ian Porter

Will supply a fully list shortly - still no mention of Bryan Young. Also no mention of Gaston yet

by Standulstermen Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:02

Yep, the last thing we need is another Doak screaming at the young players from the sidelines and when they come off.

by Sin é Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:07

Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:You should also bear in mind that I'm no so sure he is great with youth. I think he really messed Sexton up and why he seemingly has to be treated like a very fragile little flower.

a) Don't be so ridiculous. Nobody thinks Sexton has to be treated like a fragile little flower. He's shown a mental edge for Leinster and Ireland at times in his career.
b) You are actually right, Cheika didn't trust him. Cheika was apparently a poor man manager- I personally am not at all enthusiastic about the prospect of him coming to Ulster. I don't think Michael Cheika is the man to take us forward as a club.

We need a good man-manager, a guy who can both give our young players confidence in their ability and command the respect of the senior players. Cheika may well be able to do the latter, not so sure about the former.

Just compare some of the comments that were made about sexton (rog was upsetting him because he knew he was going to be taken off - he should be left on no matter what), to Conor Murray (should be just sent back to Munster and learn how to play rugby Very Happy

) that are doing the rounds of the message boards. The media tippy-toe around him. If he does anything halfway right he gets man of the match. You'd never think that sexton had about 30 caps and murray 5 or 6. Very Happy

Jebus, even Shane Horgan was laying into Murray on the telly (though in fairness, he did backtrack on the radio later).

by Sin é Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:09

Standulstermen wrote:Yep, the last thing we need is another Doak screaming at the young players from the sidelines and when they come off.

You may recall cheika laying into the team after they performed poorly (and lost) in the magners final in the against the Ospreys in the rds. It was his last game with Leinster as well. Not a pretty sight.

by Standulstermen Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:14

I have no issue with him laying into a team collectively but not singling out young guys who need encouraged.

by Sin é Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:16

Standulstermen wrote:I have no issue with him laying into a team collectively but not singling out young guys who need encouraged.

Not in public though. Think it was Mal O'Kelly's last game and he had a great game.

by Standulstermen Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:18

Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:I have no issue with him laying into a team collectively but not singling out young guys who need encouraged.

Not in public though. Think it was Mal O'Kelly's last game and he had a great game.

Well yes. I think you can hint or tell the public they will be getting a bollicking but to do in public. I cant recall the incident. Was it ala Phil Brown at Hull who gave his half time team talk on the pitch?

by **Notch** Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:22

I think you are reading too much into some things there Sin. Outhalves are always easy candidates for a lazy pundits because they are very high profile (especially when their goal kickers as well). Ian Humphreys has gotten MoTM from BBC NI so many times for average games it's like a running joke up here Smile

You're right, it's a similar argument with Murray and Sexton. I was not terribly impressed with Murray. But it was interesting to read Gatlands comments on Priestlands poor game against England- they decided to leave him on because they thought he would learn more from that.

It was the right decision to take Murray off, but I think the right decision to retain him this week too. He needs time to learn and he won't improve otherwise. But Sin, it's the same with ROG and Sexton. What you perceive as people defending his 'mental frailty' and giving him special treatment is only people saying this; you can't have O'Gara coming straight on every single time he makes a mistake because he will make mistakes and thats part of what it takes to develop as a player at this level. He has needed the opportunity to make them and to learn from them; which I think he has done.

The coaches need to show some faith in both of their chosen halfbacks- Murray and Sexton. They'll both develop a lot as players because of that.

by Sin é Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:30

Standulstermen wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:I have no issue with him laying into a team collectively but not singling out young guys who need encouraged.

Not in public though. Think it was Mal O'Kelly's last game and he had a great game.

Well yes. I think you can hint or tell the public they will be getting a bollicking but to do in public. I cant recall the incident. Was it ala Phil Brown at Hull who gave his half time team talk on the pitch?

He read them the riot act in front of everyone. And it was also Cheika's last game with Leinster. It wouldn't have been so bad if he wasn't leaving I suppose or Mal wasn't retiring.

by Sin é Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:36

Notch wrote:I think you are reading too much into some things there Sin. Outhalves are always easy candidates for a lazy pundits because they are very high profile (especially when their goal kickers as well). Ian Humphreys has gotten MoTM from BBC NI so many times for average games it's like a running joke up here

You're right, it's a similar argument with Murray and Sexton. I was not terribly impressed with Murray. But it was interesting to read Gatlands comments on Priestlands poor game against England- they decided to leave him on because they thought he would learn more from that.

It was the right decision to take Murray off, but I think the right decision to retain him this week too. He needs time to learn and he won't improve otherwise. But Sin, it's the same with ROG and Sexton. What you perceive as people defending his 'mental frailty' and giving him special treatment is only people saying this; you can't have O'Gara coming straight on every single time he makes a mistake because he will make mistakes and thats part of what it takes to develop as a player at this level. He has needed the opportunity to make them and to learn from them; which I think he has done.

The coaches need to show some faith in both of their chosen halfbacks- Murray and Sexton. They'll both develop a lot as players because of that.

I have no issue with Murray being taken off when he was. He was having a poor game (but the poor team performance up to then was not all his fault).

My point is that a lot of the commentary is that Murray should be dropped and sent home to Munster. But in a similar situation when Sexton was coming through and he was having poor games, rog was the one who should have been sent up to Munster because Sexton apparently found the competition difficult to deal with and was the reason he could perform for Leinster, but couldn't perform for Ireland.

edit: incidentally, I think Murray is a good competitor and won't have confidence issues if dropped.

by **Notch** Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 22:47

This thing about people saying ROG should be dropped because Sexton wasn't playing well is a bit of an exaggeration/fiction I haven't heard anywhere else. I also haven't heard anyone say Murray shouldn't be in the 22 or dropped from the squad.

You have a gift for taking offence/finding the most extreme interpretation of someones comment Smile

by Sin é Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 23:12

Notch wrote:This thing about people saying ROG should be dropped because Sexton wasn't playing well is a bit of an exaggeration/fiction I haven't heard anywhere else. I also haven't heard anyone say Murray shouldn't be in the 22 or dropped from the squad.

You have a gift for taking offence/finding the most extreme interpretation of someones comment

Here is a sample of the criticisms doing the rounds on Murray at the moment:

Originally Posted by MungBean View Post
If Kidney was to start Marshall on Sunday it would be more warranted than his starting of Murray in the world cup. Thats how utterly stupid his selection was.

I dont think my issues with his world cup selection are clouding my judgement at all, its clear and has been since he was originally selected by Kidney that he's not capable of playing to an international level. He will be in future but he's not currently, I'm basing that on his entire international career to date. He has had an opportunity that virtually no other player has ever had. He was taken and started at the world cup on a whim and allowed remain as first choice since despite not stepping up and being out performed by his bench cover both at club level and international level.

Starting doesnt show his ability it only shows his lack of competition. Stringer going to england as a last resort makes that all the more impressive ? Despite him being shown up over there ? If anything it showed how little Murray had to do to get ahead at Munster, Stringer over the hill and TOL making a show of himself. Boss, Reddan and Marshall all have to compete with international standard SH's for position. Murray doesnt, he has had a clear path to the top and nobody within a hundred miles of taking that off him. The fact is he wouldnt be a starting SH for Ulster or Leinster and you know it so his starting at Munster isnt grounds to have him in the Irish squad at all let alone starting.

PODGE_ I don't think anyone is disputing that. The issue is that he should be getting the game time at Munster first. He's struggled in quite a lot of games for Munster (as well as having some very good games). It's unfair to the guy himself to be having him adjust to professional rugby on the international stage. The guy has started 22 professional games in his career - and 5 of them were internationals.

by **Notch** Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 23:33

I have no idea who those people are- are they just random people from some other forum?

Don't you think you take comments by random fans on the internet a lot too seriously?

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 1 Mar 2012 - 23:36

I have never seen those posters either. On either the club or the international forums. I wouldn't be surprised if you wrote those yourself sin Wink

by Sin é Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 0:02

Notch wrote:I have no idea who those people are- are they just random people from some other forum?

Don't you think you take comments by random fans on the internet a lot too seriously?

They post on a rugby forum on one of the busiest message boards in europe.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056563519&page=22

I don't post there - I was banned years ago over some european treaty by some mad moderator who had his own opinions and dare anyone disagree with him Very Happy

I do look in every now and then though. Odd poster from here posts there.

by Sin é Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 0:05

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I have never seen those posters either. On either the club or the international forums. I wouldn't be surprised if you wrote those yourself sin

Check out the thread i've supplied a link. You'll see a lot worse than what I've posted here. A couple of Ulsterfans post there. I'd advise you to stay well away Rory, some of them are downright nasty.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 0:20

I'm more curious to know what you said to get banned Sin Very Happy

by BelfastDickVet Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 0:34

just had a gander on a couple of pages on that site, pretty poor reflection of ulster fans on there!

lets just be thankful that the Ireland and provincial fans on here talk sense at least some of the time! Hug

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 0:40

Sin é wrote:
That blog appeals to a certain demographic big time in the east of Ireland!

Whats with "radge" - is it some sort of joke or some strange spelling ?

You've been living in Dublin too long.

by Sin é Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 0:56

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I'm more curious to know what you said to get banned Sin

I can't even remember now - it was more I used to disagree with one of the mods. We battled away for about 6 months (over the Lisbon Treaty), then he got fed up arguing with me and I got a six months ban and I never bothered going back. We had some right humdingers over EU fishing rights in Irish waters, mind Very Happy

Basically, he felt we should be on our hands and knees to the EU and I reckoned they did very well from our fishing rights.

I wasn't the only one he banned that he didn't agree with. He was a total looney. Think he is gone now. He was far too excitable to be moderating a politics board. Very Happy

by Sin é Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 0:58

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Sin é wrote:
That blog appeals to a certain demographic big time in the east of Ireland!

Whats with "radge" - is it some sort of joke or some strange spelling ?

You've been living in Dublin too long.

Don't I know. Very Happy

Do you know what the 'Radge' thing is? Is it the way ROG is pronounced in a DART accent?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 1:13

Sin é wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Sin é wrote:
That blog appeals to a certain demographic big time in the east of Ireland!

Whats with "radge" - is it some sort of joke or some strange spelling ?

You've been living in Dublin too long.

Don't I know. Do you know what the 'Radge' thing is? Is it the way ROG is pronounced in a DART accent?

Stop taking the pi$$. As you well know (but I'll say it for the benefit of the Ulster contingent) It's a massive Limerick/Tipp bog monster accent. I should know, I've relations down that way god help me. Laugh

by Sin é Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 1:16

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Sin é wrote:
That blog appeals to a certain demographic big time in the east of Ireland!

Whats with "radge" - is it some sort of joke or some strange spelling ?

You've been living in Dublin too long.

Don't I know. Do you know what the 'Radge' thing is? Is it the way ROG is pronounced in a DART accent?
Stop taking the pi$$. As you well know (but I'll say it for the benefit of the Ulster contingent) It's a massive Limerick/Tipp bog monster accent. I should know, I've relations down that way god help me.

I'm from tipp and I've never heard that pronuciation before (born 20 miles from Limerick and went to college there).

by geoff998rugby Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:35

BelfastDickVet wrote:just had a gander on a couple of pages on that site, pretty poor reflection of ulster fans on there!

lets just be thankful that the Ireland and provincial fans on here talk sense at least some of the time!

Not the only place, the Ulster supporters site has become a sad parady of a forum with a lot of pathetic middle age men trying to be funny and failing.

It really is inane - I haven't posted there in a long time.

by geoff998rugby Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:38

To further stir the rumour lill.

I am now at the point where if what I have heard is correct there is no reason I can think of why Tommy has not been announced as an Ulster player. Some strange timing issue no doubt - maybe tie in with th coaching appointment.

One thing that Logan said was they want a coach who fits the Ulster way. Now I assume this doesn't mean he has to be a long distance walker laughing

What it does suggest is that someone who was part of the Ulster set up in the past would be a good fit - that suggests Sexton.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:38

Peel back all the layers of sophistication you have acquired up here. Pretend you are in a small pub in east limerick watching munster win the hc. Now reach down inside yourself and issue a throaty roar....... g'wan radge. Smile

by Rava Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:40

geoff998rugby wrote:To further stir the rumour lill.

I am now at the point where if what I have heard is correct there is no reason I can think of why Tommy has not been announced as an Ulster player. Some strange timing issue no doubt - maybe tie in with th coaching appointment.

One thing that Logan said was they want a coach who fits the Ulster way. Now I assume this doesn't mean he has to be a long distance walker
What it does suggest is that someone who was part of the Ulster set up in the past would be a good fit - that suggests Sexton.

Or Mark McCall

by geoff998rugby Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:43

True but I suspect he is happy where he is and also the rumour mill suggest a SH coach.

by Mickado Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:54

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Peel back all the layers of sophistication you have acquired up here. Pretend you are in a small pub in east limerick watching munster win the hc. Now reach down inside yourself and issue a throaty roar....... g'wan radge.

sher radge's a ligind.

by Standulstermen Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:56

geoff998rugby wrote:
BelfastDickVet wrote:just had a gander on a couple of pages on that site, pretty poor reflection of ulster fans on there!

lets just be thankful that the Ireland and provincial fans on here talk sense at least some of the time!

Not the only place, the Ulster supporters site has become a sad parady of a forum with a lot of pathetic middle age men trying to be funny and failing.

It really is inane - I haven't posted there in a long time.

ThAt does come across on the supporters site.

by **Notch** Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:58

The UAFC used to be good. Now it's just a waste of time.

That said, I keep an eye on it. Someone said the News Letter reported the Bowe deal could be announced next week.
.

by Thomond Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:58

geoff998rugby wrote:
BelfastDickVet wrote:just had a gander on a couple of pages on that site, pretty poor reflection of ulster fans on there!

lets just be thankful that the Ireland and provincial fans on here talk sense at least some of the time!

Not the only place, the Ulster supporters site has become a sad parady of a forum with a lot of pathetic middle age men trying to be funny and failing.
.

How is that different to here? Wink

by Standulstermen Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 8:59

We arent middle aged for the most part thomond.

by Thomond Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:06

We all try to be funny and fail though.....

by **Notch** Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:21

That's true. Here there's always a risk some rugby chat might break out amidst the man sausage-waving and BS though Smile

by geoff998rugby Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:23

Thomond trust me the debate here is class by comparison

Yes it really is that bad on our supporters site - scary I know Very Happy

by **rodders** Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:25

The UAFC is cringeworthy for sure. Never signed up for it myself.

Not sure you could compare Cheika to Doak, Cheikas a HEC winning coach so he can't be that bad. BOD in particular spoke very highly off him and considered leaving Leinster to join him at Stade.

I've no problem with a coach giving his players a good bollocking, in fact I think its a great thing if they deserve it. If players can't deal with criticism then they are in wrong proffession. Its not always the way to handle things but players can't be wrapped in cottonwool either.

Maybe hes not the right guy for us so I'm willing to trust the Ulster management. Don't know enough about Sexton to comment but if we wanted a coach who knows the Ulster way then we could have stuck with BM?

Sin the Sexton v Murray thing is totally different. Murray has no issues with confidence but may have a lack of tactical nous and ability to read the game which will only come with experience. Sexton has that experience but some have argued that his confidence may be less for Ireland because Kidney doesn't have the same faith in him as Schmidt does. Its not a fair comparison because there is much more pressure on the fly half than any other player.

by MrsP Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:29

Ah hem!!!!!

Some of us are outside all the parameters mentioned and I think you'll find the place is all the better for it!

On the timing thing, remember when Boss moved to Leinster? We all knew ages before it was announced. I think they waited till they had announced their new coach first too.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:32

MrsP wrote:Ah hem!!!!!

Some of us are outside all the parameters mentioned and I think you'll find the place is all the better for it!

by **rodders** Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:39

Notch wrote:That's true. Here there's always a risk some rugby chat might break out amidst the man sausage-waving and BS though

Man sausage waving??...I think you might be confusing this site with some others you frequent Notch! ... Whistle

by **Notch** Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:40

Touche...

by **Notch** Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:46

Another article referring to Bowe signing for Ulster;

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/bowe-desperate-to-seize-initiative-and-end-paris-horror-run-3037815.html

Apparently this is a done deal? But in terms of official confirmation censored

Is it at 'Open Secret' status now?

by Don Alfonso Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:47

I lurk a bit on boards.ie. I signed up a couple of years ago and tried a couple of posts, but it wasn't worth it. Never bothered again.

The number of Ulster posters must have doubled to about... six. But if Ulster are being discussed at all, it's an improvement. It used to be that Ulster could have been in an HEC final, and there would be fourteen posts on the live game, and there would be 634 posts on a thread about some boy's knock-on five yards from the line in an important Leinster Schools Cup game. That's just who the majority pf posters are - that's absolutely fine, of course. It's just not really what I want to read.

The amount of posts saying "I saw Luke Fitzgerald against St Pickled Herring when he was eight and I knew then that the game of rugby would be re-defined by his talent" got pretty tedious. I think most of these guys are contemporaries of the younger players.

by Don Alfonso Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 9:49

I see the Freudian car crash that is Notch replied "Touch" to a post about man sausage waving...

[I'm naturally presuming the final "e" is a mis-type]

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 10:10

Don Alfonso wrote:I see the Freudian car crash that is Notch replied "Touch" to a post about man sausage waving...

[I'm naturally presuming the final "e" is a mis-type]

As was the inital 'T', I believe, Don - he meant a 'D' Whistle

by Don Alfonso Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 10:16

Boom! That's how he rolls!!

[As he would no doubt have it.]

by The Great Aukster Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 10:52

geoff998rugby wrote:I am now at the point where if what I have heard is correct there is no reason I can think of why Tommy has not been announced as an Ulster player. Some strange timing issue no doubt - maybe tie in with th coaching appointment.

Isn't the answer obvious? Tommy is the new player coach.

by clivemcl Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 11:22

Is there any substance to the discussions on terblanche remaining as a coaching role? Or is this highly unlikely?

I wish someone would announce something. UR do tend to forget tehres fans out here who like to know stuff. We don't even ever hear much detail about injuries and progress.

by MrsP Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 11:23

clive?

by clivemcl Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 11:35

Serious? I missed that MrsP, Thank You So much! Just reading it now. There will not be much work done on Monday morning then! And if anyone talks to me I may scream at them!

by clivemcl Fri 2 Mar 2012 - 11:48

Also, could you know delete that post before other people see it? lol

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