Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

All of the following will be contracted to Ulster next year - I don't know the nature of each contract though

Niall Annett
Jerry Cronin
Craig Gilroy
Paddy Jackson
Adam Macklin
Luke Marshall
James McKinney
Ian Porter

Will supply a fully list shortly - still no mention of Bryan Young. Also no mention of Gaston yet

The Munster site does say 2 years - typo ??

Cant see what the advantage would be to the irfu that they sign 3 year contracts. If they don't want to declare for Ireland after 2 years, they sure as heck are not going to do it after 3 years of being forced to stay!

It would be in the player's interests though to get a 3 year contract, particularly if they are a bit of an unknown quantity.

Bet Munster and the IRFU are delighted that Borlase doesn't have a 3 year contract now!

If they don't want to declare for Ireland, then they shouldn't be "project players". The ENTIRE point in making a distinction between them and other NIQ players is that they will qualify for Ireland.

Have any other project players had a contract for less time than they need to qualify? If he doesn't re-sign, then Munster have effectively had an extra NIQ for two years.

Don Alfonso wrote:If they don't want to declare for Ireland, then they shouldn't be "project players". The ENTIRE point in making a distinction between them and other NIQ players is that they will qualify for Ireland.

Have any other project players had a contract for less time than they need to qualify? If he doesn't re-sign, then Munster have effectively had an extra NIQ for two years.

+1

Don, they may change their mind and get homesick or something. Sykes didn't last very long, did he? Munster also had Jeremy Manning as a project player, was resident for the required amount of time and he was never wanted. Do you think diack will be capped? I don't see Jarad Payne collecting too many caps because its not a position Ireland are short of players.

I figure there are a few like that who will be filed under the qualfied, but not capped category.

Sykes didn't last long, but he was on a 3 year contract none the less.

Sin have you ever actually seen Payne play? He would walk onto the Ireland side at outside centre and push for a full back spot too.

I can't seem him playing for us though, I'd imagine he still has ambitions to be an all black.

All I know about Payne is that a lot of journo’s had him in their team of the season for the S15 last year.

That’s not bad going at all.

Sin é wrote:Don, they may change their mind and get homesick or something. Sykes didn't last very long, did he? Munster also had Jeremy Manning as a project player, was resident for the required amount of time and he was never wanted. Do you think diack will be capped? I don't see Jarad Payne collecting too many caps because its not a position Ireland are short of players.

I figure there are a few like that who will be filed under the qualfied, but not capped category.

Diack - No.

Payne - Perhaps, but three years is a long time in any sport.

Personally I am not in favour but dem de rules.
There will be massive discussion in a few months over Best/Strauss.

Strauss is in the Ireland training squad now right?

Cronin has really come on so Strauss will have a fight on his hands to earn his caps.

Payne is certainly a player with the ability to play international rugby (if he gets back to the level he was at prior to his injury) but the idea of him lining out in a green jersey doesn't seem right to me, even though he's a very nice bloke and a great player.

You mention the "qualified but not capped" category. That's fine. There'd have to be something seriously wrong if Diack got an Ireland cap, for example.

But at the end of his contract, Borlase will be UNABLE to play for Ireland. Not much of a project player. He will be in the "unqualified, and not capped (for Ireland)" category, much like Pienaar or BJ Botha, having seen out the full terms of his contract.

The Jared Payne who played Super 15 last summer would have been in the current Ireland side - my guess would be at 13.

His performances then were superior to any Irish back who has played this year - only Kearney in the Internationals comes close.

He was on fire last year.

Borlase no longer has to be a 'project player' surely, as Connacht are under a different set of rules regarding NIQ players?

But he has been a project player at Munster for almost two years, and is at Connacht on loan.

I though Connacht were allowed 5 NIQ + 3 project players?

Lads, Borlase is shoite, would you just let it go!

It's true. He's as much chance of playing for Ireland as any number of journeyman props who are nowhere near good enough.

Wee Tommy is defnitely coming home.

It seems like Matt Sexton + 1 other (initial thoughts were Aaron Mauger but this has gone quiet) will be the coaching ticket

We are ex[ected to sign 1 more player (after Roger and Tommy) but it is not anticipated that this will be a marquee name (in fairness we do have enough of those1)

Notch - you left out "and who aren't eligible".

Shafted - is it an NIQ signing in P3's absence? Is it a backrower, do you know?

I dont Don. its not definite that P3 is on his way, but another 1 or two IQ'd are likely to depart.

Whitten and Faloon potentially, but i do not know for definite

Rava wrote:

Sin é wrote:Don, they may change their mind and get homesick or something. Sykes didn't last very long, did he? Munster also had Jeremy Manning as a project player, was resident for the required amount of time and he was never wanted. Do you think diack will be capped? I don't see Jarad Payne collecting too many caps because its not a position Ireland are short of players.

I figure there are a few like that who will be filed under the qualfied, but not capped category.

Diack - No.

Payne - Perhaps, but three years is a long time in any sport.

Personally I am not in favour but dem de rules.
There will be massive discussion in a few months over Best/Strauss.

Neither am I. Don't think he'd get ahead of Best. He might make the bench ahead of Cronin though (who is playing well at the moment).

We would want to sign another backrower or two. We're chronically light in the depth stakes.

Sure Ferris, Henry and Wilson is a very credible starting trio but I really don't rate Faloon, McComish or Diack very highly. Maybe the new coach can light a rocket under their backsides. Diack and Faloon have potential but seem to have utterly stagnated recently.

To be honest, I just really hope Wannenburg decides to sat on for just one more year.

Don Alfonso wrote:But he has been a project player at Munster for almost two years, and is at Connacht on loan.

Maybe munster is looking to do a swap or something with one of their players

Fair enough. We really need to shore up the backrow.

And now, the ultimate Ulster vs. Munster bunfight:

http://whiffofcordite.blogspot.com/2012/03/your-coaches-give-them-to-me-now.html?m=1

I feel a bit faint at the idea of this one running and running. For what it's worth, I think there's still a great deal more cachet to being the Munster coach, hich the author has overlooked. Good analysis, though.

the process of appointing our coach is almost over, whisle Munsters is just beginning!!

Shafted wrote:the process of appointing our coach is almost over, whisle Munsters is just beginning!!

If that (and the post above about sexton +1) is indeed the case then sexton as head coach and forwards along with Muller looks likely. The +1 i would pray is a backs coach. Leaves us short of a defence coach unless Jonny Bell is being retained.

If we retain Pedrie we only need one more backrow (provided we lose one that is). I think all bets are off with the new coaching ticket. Its a great chance for the faloons and Stevesons of the squad to really impress. Whether they can or not is another matter.

Another IQ backrow would be very very difficult to sign, unless he would qualify through the granny rule.

Can anybody really see EOS coming to Ravenhill let alone as one of the specialists rather than head houncho?

MrsP wrote:Can anybody really see EOS coming to Ravenhill let alone as one of the specialists rather than head houncho?

Has anyone suggested that might be the case? I find it highly unlikely MrsP.

Edit; sorry MrsP, just read that blog. I think we are looking to the SH for our inspiration

How do I answer that in various Eddie metaphors?

Heading to Ulster would be a potential banana skin, it's a real sobering moment,it shouldn't happen, there's no place in the game for things like this. You know you can't unring a bell.

What about that?

It was that "Whiff of Cordite" thing Stand.

Maybe he was trying to be funny.

Thomond wrote:How do I answer that in various Eddie metaphors?

Heading to Ulster would be a potential banana skin, it's a real sobering moment,it shouldn't happen, there's no place in the game for things like this. You know you can't unring a bell.

What about that?

I was hoping for a bag of spanners reference Thomond!

Eddie responds to a journalist asking why he wouldn't join Ulster:

You know, it would be a different bag of spanners if they could get all thier ducks in a row.

Shafted wrote:

It seems like Matt Sexton + 1 other (initial thoughts were Aaron Mauger but this has gone quiet) will be the coaching ticket

So, what do Ulsterfans think about Sexton? Under or overwhelmed. Would you have preferred a bigger name? Does this mean that Humphreys is now going to take on a role similar to conor O'shea and Kidney.

Shafted wrote:Wee Tommy is defnitely coming home.

It seems like Matt Sexton + 1 other (initial thoughts were Aaron Mauger but this has gone quiet) will be the coaching ticket

We are ex[ected to sign 1 more player (after Roger and Tommy) but it is not anticipated that this will be a marquee name (in fairness we do have enough of those1)

Hey shafted! Are you sure on Tommy??

I saw that Sexton/ Mauger thing in UAFC.... One of the Tigers fans on here said that Mauger has been linked with them. Perhaps thats the hold up?

To be honest I'd rather we went with someone proven like Chieka, I don't like the that we've replace BM with someone else inexperienced.

Edit: just saw your post sin..think I've answered it above.

Sin é wrote:

Shafted wrote:

It seems like Matt Sexton + 1 other (initial thoughts were Aaron Mauger but this has gone quiet) will be the coaching ticket

So, what do Ulsterfans think about Sexton? Under or overwhelmed. Would you have preferred a bigger name? Does this mean that Humphreys is now going to take on a role similar to conor O'shea and Kidney.

No idea. happy enough depending on us getting a backs coach. I saw a few names mentioned. Like anyone he has to be given time. I think the big issue is getting some pattern to our backplay. Has Sexton not been in charge of thw Crusaders academy. If he can bring the same success in terms of developing players as the crusaders have i will be delighted.

Thomond!

MrsP wrote:It was that "Whiff of Cordite" thing Stand.

Maybe he was trying to be funny.

Trying being the operative word.

That blog appeals to a certain demographic big time in the east of Ireland!

Whats with "radge" - is it some sort of joke or some strange spelling ?

He bangs on about ROG retiring being a major issue, not realising that outhalf is the one position that Munster can get the cheque book out for when he does retire if need be. I think a combo of Hanrahan & Keatley might just work, though.

I do think he does play down Munster's attractiveness. If the new coach can't handle foley, he won't handle the rest of the job. If you look back at the previous coaches, all have gone onto international coaching.

Standulstermen wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Shafted wrote:

It seems like Matt Sexton + 1 other (initial thoughts were Aaron Mauger but this has gone quiet) will be the coaching ticket

So, what do Ulsterfans think about Sexton? Under or overwhelmed. Would you have preferred a bigger name? Does this mean that Humphreys is now going to take on a role similar to conor O'shea and Kidney.

No idea. happy enough depending on us getting a backs coach. I saw a few names mentioned. Like anyone he has to be given time. I think the big issue is getting some pattern to our backplay. Has Sexton not been in charge of thw Crusaders academy. If he can bring the same success in terms of developing players as the crusaders have i will be delighted.

Thomond!

I think its a good plan to get someone who has some experience of Ulster. Has he any senior coaching experience? (I don't know how the academy system works in Nz - they could have a league for all I know).

I'd be really happy to get Matt Sexton involved- he knows the club, he knows the system and the challenges we face. He understands the culture he's coming into and he is bringing the experience of working within the winning culture of the top provincial side in World Rugby, so in that sense it's the best of both worlds. His experience as a coach bringing Academy players through to the top level bodes well for his ability to bring through a host of promising young talents who are knocking on the door at Ulster.

The only major downside is his lack of top-level experience as Head Coach. The other coaches on staff would have a major impact on whether or not it's a good set-up. I would like to see Matt Sexton get the job, but it's a sort of cautious approval.

Sin, it's my understanding that Sexton currently coaches the Crusaders/Super Rugby equivalent of our 'A' teams as well as his Academy role. So not exactly massive experience but a bit, yeah.

Notch wrote:Sin, it's my understanding that Sexton currently coaches the Crusaders/Super Rugby equivalent of our 'A' teams as well as his Academy role. So not exactly massive experience but a bit, yeah.

It's exciting though. When you look at how the crusaders play the game it is based on a really solid platform up front but their youngsters throw it about. I know the calibre in canterbury will be higher but when you consider what Schmidt has done in Leinster you would hope a kiwi coach can develop our game.

No guarantees mind you

I suppose what worries me guys is that Sexton is unproven as a coach whereas Cheika has that experience of winning the HEC.

Schmidt came into a club that was already successful in terms of silverware and had good foundations, in part layed by Cheika.

We are still a work in progress and its a big ask for someone inexperienced to come in and be successful.

Schmidt totally changed the way Leinster played thou. McLaughlin has done well and for the most part established a meritocracy (certainly in the beginning) regarding the ulster team that we haven't seen in a while. Form and performance was rewarded.

To some extent he became more settled in selection but he still makes big calls like dropping humph recently. Yes, aren't HEC winners but a good platform has been laid by mclaughlin but he just lacked theextra nous to take us to silverware. Who knows rodders

Cheika was unproven when he arrived in Leinster. And he did have a few hickups along the way. Knox might have made Leinster look brilliant, but he was trouble and Leinster won nothing with him around.

The Leinster players from what I hear were delighted to see the back of him as well. Rumour has it he knocked Felix Jones out with a box when he told him he was going to Munster and put him into coventry (by not giving him any gametime which was fairly mean as he was off that summer with Ireland A to the churchill cup). So much for a provincial coach doing his bit for Irish rugby.

Totally agree that Schimdt has taken Leinster to a new level but the steel and winners mentality was already in place. Thats a big difference.

We are on an upward curve but until we win silverware we aren't the finished article.

I really hope Sexton is the man to take us to the next level and I suppose I'll just have to trust Humph and Logans judgement.

roddersm wrote:Totally agree that Schimdt has taken Leinster to a new level but the steel and winners mentality was already in place. Thats a big difference.

We are on an upward curve but until we win silverware we aren't the finished article.

I really hope Sexton is the man to take us to the next level and I suppose I'll just have to trust Humph and Logans judgement.

Cheika was responsible for Leinster eventually having a pack, which was what they were really missing for years.

True Sin and I suppose we already have a really strong pack.

roddersm wrote:True Sin and I suppose we already have a really strong pack.

What he would bring is a hard edge - do Ulster need a hard edge?

You should also bear in mind that I'm no so sure he is great with youth. I think he really messed Sexton up and why he seemingly has to be treated like a very fragile little flower.

I'd say we do need a hard edge yes... certainly more mental strength to get to that next level. A bit more composure in the big games.

Sin é wrote:You should also bear in mind that I'm no so sure he is great with youth. I think he really messed Sexton up and why he seemingly has to be treated like a very fragile little flower.

a) Don't be so ridiculous. Nobody thinks Sexton has to be treated like a fragile little flower. He's shown a mental edge for Leinster and Ireland at times in his career.
b) You are actually right, Cheika didn't trust him. Cheika was apparently a poor man manager- I personally am not at all enthusiastic about the prospect of him coming to Ulster. I don't think Michael Cheika is the man to take us forward as a club.

We need a good man-manager, a guy who can both give our young players confidence in their ability and command the respect of the senior players. Cheika may well be able to do the latter, not so sure about the former.