How does Dylan Hartley qualify for England?

I've heard loads of different versions. some say he came over at 14, some at 16 and some at 18. I've heard that he has an english grandparent and others have said he has an English parent.

Could someone please give a definitive answer with (and this is the key point) some form of reference as proof.

Either that or can we find out how many versions have been written in the papers.

Cheers

Stop this flagrant racism!

Engerland! Engerland! Engerland! Engerland!

That's a good question actually, I've read loads of different reports on it myself. Not sure it really matters too much though as even if he did only come over at 18, he'd qualify on residency anyway, wouldn't he?

TheGG - behave yourself please

Does it matter what age? He's been playing in England for years.

According to Wiki, moved to England in 2000 (aged 14), attended Beacon Community College in Sussex.

Not sure his parentage, but by now he qualifies by residency. I thought he came over in his late teens, but I know it was before his twentieth.

Oh, thats interesting. He came over earlier than I thought. Good for him. Is there anything indicating why he came over when aged 14? At that age, I find it hard to think it was for Rugby. Maybe his parents has business?

Wiki says he has been in England since he was 14

greybeard wrote:Does it matter what age? He's been playing in England for years.

It doesn't "matter" as such. It's just I've heard conflicting things and wondered what the truth is.

English mother - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/6608096/Englands-Kiwi-hooker-Dylan-Hartley-relishing-first-haka-at-Twickenham.html

He came here when he was 16.

Unfortunately the wiki page doesn't have any references for that piece of information

Cheers snoopster, a quoted line from Hartley that says he left at 16 (see what I mean about wiki?)

That's really confusing as Wiki (i know...) says he came over in 2000.

Who is this man of mystery, what's he hiding? I demand an investigation!!

Yeah, just read an interview from The Independent saying 16 also. And with the English Mum, to boot. Shouldn't be an issue - came over as a teenager, not as an adult suddenly finding his roots (cough, cough).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/dylan-hartley-a-saint-and-a-sinner-who-feels-right-at-home-2219926.html

Dylan had moved from his native New Zealand to England eight years ago, initially played for Worcester Warriors and at the early age of 19 became a member of the England Under 21 squad, showing the innate football ability and competitive attitude to succeed.

He had been initially called up for England Under 18s while staying with relatives in Crowborough and being involved with the local Sussex club. Educated at Rotorua Boys High School, he went on to cover all three England front row positions during the 2005 IRB World Championship in Argentina.

Source: http://www.rfu.com/SquadsAndPlayers/EnglandElite/DylanHartley.aspx

Doesn't give definitive answers. He has relatives in Crowborough, but that doesn't mean his parents are English, or even that he has any English blood-relatives.
However, he must have been in England before he was 18 to have played for England U18s. He went to Worcester when he was 19, but played club rugby in Sussex before then. I'm from Sussex, and Crowborough aren't a massive club. They wouldn't be bringing in 14-16 year olds from New Zealand, more likely he came over for other reasons.

http://www.crowboroughrugby.com/the-club/3/147/past-players.html

Crowborough say he played in their Under 16 team, meaning he was probably 15 when he came over here, possibly 16 if he just caught the back end of the season.

The wikipedia article mentions twice the fact that he was born in New Zealand but doesn't mention at all that he is half English. Not exactly the key fact about his life but let's face it there are those who make a huge song and dance about his apparent non-Englishness it so it should really be on there.

Actually it's a ridiculously negative article about him focusing almost entirely on eye gouging. I'm not saying that incident and ban should not be duely recorded just that I would have thought more of a balanced article would for instance include his well noted performance against Wales in the 2011 6Ns.

Who knows how to modify the Wiki articles? Juggler, where are you now?

Anyone can amend Wiki articles, just click on Edit.

doctor_grey wrote:Not sure his parentage,

Are you suggesting he looks a bit like the milkman?

His middle name's Ernie, isn't it?

red_stag wrote:According to Wiki, moved to England in 2000 (aged 14), attended Beacon Community College in Sussex.

I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

Maesteg,

I checked Crowborough RFC and it says he played for Crowborough RFC, Beacon Community College and Rotorua.

maestegmafia wrote:
I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

Not Grannygate. That only applied to Wales and Scotland. Dylan has an English mother.

Wouldn't matter anyway as he was here for more than 3 years before playing. So far it's only Wales and Scotland who have played illegal players (as far as I'm aware)

luckless_pedestrian wrote:His middle name's Ernie, isn't it?

And a lot of people have suggested hes a righ b' stard at times.

Maybe the IRB should start basing qualification on what it says on wikipedia rather than the extensive documnetation it requires now (thanks to the welsh )

Crowborough is a town, not a school. Beacon Community College is a secondary school in Crowborough. He played for the school team (Beacon Community College) and his local club team (Crowborough), as well as his club in New Zealand (Rotorua).

Do you think he learned the off the ball stuff post 16 years of age, or before?

The good things in England, the bad things in New Zealand. Of course.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Do you think he learned the off the ball stuff post 16 years of age, or before?

Before. Some good teachers of that in NZ.

Do you have the exact same number of posts as me, because you just follow me around being antagonistic?

TheGreyGhost wrote:Do you have the exact same number of posts as me, because you just follow me around being antagonistic?

No.

You asked the question about "off the ball" being pre or post 16. I just answered you. Also you were the one who started being antagonistic on this thread, I just replied in kind.

I hope you have evidence to back up your assertion then. I'd hate you to have to retract your post.

Pack it in the pair of you.

Get a room. Can't you just feel the awkward tension between them

If there's ever a topic thats had the bum kicked out of it, it's qualification rules and residency.

Probably qualifies because he has been selected

Breadvan wrote:If there's ever a topic thats had the bum kicked out of it, it's qualification rules and residency.

You've obviously never done time on an Irish anthems debate.

greybeard wrote:

Breadvan wrote:If there's ever a topic thats had the bum kicked out of it, it's qualification rules and residency.

You've obviously never done time on an Irish anthems debate.

anyone care to start of a short, polite discussion about the haka?

Is Henson eligible to sing the Irish anthems (while doing the Haka) or does he have to wait until Phil Vickery retires?

nottins wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:
I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

Not Grannygate. That only applied to Wales and Scotland. Dylan has an English mother.

back up your statements with facts...

if he has an english mother, why dont you prove it with a link to something that clarifies your statement?

There are numerous links that state he has a English mother called Caroline

Cymroglan wrote:There are numerous links that state he has a English mother called Caroline

Here's one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/6608096/Englands-Kiwi-hooker-Dylan-Hartley-relishing-first-haka-at-Twickenham.html

"His parents, father Guy and English mother Caroline, will be watching the match from their home town of Kaharoa, a suburb of Rotorua, along with many childhood friends who have yet to see him play professional rugby"

maestegmafia wrote:

nottins wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:
I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

Not Grannygate. That only applied to Wales and Scotland. Dylan has an English mother.

back up your statements with facts...

if he has an english mother, why dont you prove it with a link to something that clarifies your statement?

If you'd read the thread, you would have realised there were already several links on this thread that prove that his mother Caroline is English. Or did you want me to provide the links for Grannygate that involved Scotland and Wales ?

Please stop attempting to troll.

Cymroglan wrote:There are numerous links that state he has a English mother called Caroline

I noticed, my post was in response to the manner in which the above poster tries to incite argument rather than enjoy forum debate and discussion.

And you weren't trying to incite an argument by mentioning Grannygate ?

Hey guys, I think we've firmly established now that he has an English mother. Let's leave the grannygate stuff alone eh? It's not going to add anything productive here, I think we can all agree with that. Thank you.

Dreamer, I got what I wanted (the quote from Hartley saying he was 16 and the article saying he had an English mother). Close the thread if you want/can. Nobody can really add anything constructive now

http://gb.zinio.com/browse/publications/index.jsp?productId=500216249

the answer is in this months Rugby World.

Just thought I would point that out!

Over at 16 on a school exchange and stayed!

thanks to Paul Morgan Rugby who told me!

Just had a tweet from Dylan Hartley himself to clarify! What a top guy!

at 16 unofficial school exchange, stayed with relatives in crow. attended and played for beacon alongside crow rfc. mother is fully english

Hopefully that clears it up for you all.

Thanks to Dylan for taking the time.

Just to be on the safe side could you tweet Jeremy Kyle just to get confirmation on parentage,

@jeremykyle go fuhfuh yourself cymroglan

Well I never! What a potty mouth!