pet hates - in particular, course condition and attention to detail

my pet hate is poorly maintained bunkers. there's just no excuse. with a little care the presentation of certain elements such as bunkers, tee areas, paths etc can give a course something more ...

i was lucky to spend a couple of summers as a lad working as a labourer on the green staff of our club and there was a consistent and fair-minded philosophy behind how each bunker was presented. the bunkers were generally pretty deep, and all had at least a yard and a half of sloping sand the whole way round so every ball would roll away from the edge meaning you always had a fair stance at your shot. also this meant there was no danger of anyone destroying the riveted edge by being plugged 6 inches away from the face. sand was raked twice during the week and twice at the weekends in a very particular fashion and the base always properly levelled to avoid the wave effect. the rake was positioned on the rough side, tip of the handle resting on the edge [no unfortunate bounces off the rake into the bunker, if you hit the rake you were already in!] and teeth pointing in the general direction of play into the bunker so as to minimise gathering or sticking. rivets were burned/repaired where necessary twice through the summer, and grassy tops were mown every week. the rigour shown in this programme showed pride in the presentation of the course, and this transmitted through to other duties.

i used to be on the weekend shift regularly, raking 58 bunkers in time for the 7.30 competition start. i used to nip down at 4.30 and enjoy the always stunning moray firth sunrise, bliss! [though less so if it was pis-sing!]

Our bunkers have a poor reputation in comparison with the rest of the course but i'm of the opinion that it is a hazard and a such you shouldn't winge about its condition... if you don't like it, don't go in it

never go in them myself, other than to properly rake up the odd one which has been left in a mess by some dunderheed!

i think a lack of attention to detail can, in some circumstances, highlight a lack of pride in caring for the course.

I'm with you there BanBam, Golfers who rake bunkers badly annoy me.

Are you going to the Scottish Open?

I know it's a pain when a bunker is a mess but we all have to remember, it's a hazard and we are mean't to be punished for going in it.

For some reason, we all seem to expect a perfect lie and a simple up and down to save par. Sorry guys, it ain't like that. If you go in a bunker, expect a bad lie and a dropped shot. Anything better is a bonus.

My pet hate at my home course is the holes not being properly sunk. In fairness to the green staff, I have a suspicion that they rise up over (a relatively short) time, but whenever I see less than the regulation inch of soil above the rim of the cup I immediately lose all faith that a well struck putt will drop. I played a match against a chap from another club a week or so ago, and he hit a solid 4 foot putt that bounced out simply because it hit the plastic; very embarrassing.

I hate seeing guys pulling a trolley that is designed to be pushed.the bunkers at my club are raked every morning before the days play

Two of my local courses feature large bunkers. Now i don't mind the fact that the bunkers are large and that i seem to find them on a consistet basis(!), but what i do hate is the fact that they plug in the slopes too often. I understand that the groundskeepers at Earth have gone through an exercise of thinning the sand on the faces of the bunkers and hardening the undersoil, to make sure that balls collect at the bottom. Remember, some of these faces are over 10ft high and if you plug in them you'll be lucky to recover your ball, let alone be able to play a shot. At Yas, the sand is far too soft in some places and you often find the ball 90% buried, and there's no local rule for relief in those circumstances. It's ok to say that we should avoid bunkers and that they ought to be punishing, but i don't expect to have to take an unplayable. Bunkers should at least give you some sort of shot.

Without fail the bunkers at my club are raked once a week...whether they need it or not!

drive4show wrote:I know it's a pain when a bunker is a mess but we all have to remember, it's a hazard and we are mean't to be punished for going in it.

For some reason, we all seem to expect a perfect lie and a simple up and down to save par. Sorry guys, it ain't like that. If you go in a bunker, expect a bad lie and a dropped shot. Anything better is a bonus.

Maybe, but the accepted norm for a sand trap is that it'll have a reasonable surface i.e. not full of un-raked footprints and divots. If they're going to take the approach that anything goes re. lie in a bunker then get rid of the stupid, expensive, inconsistent things and let some decent rough grow in the remaining depression .

So, I'm with b_b on bunkers. I also hate, with a passion, visiting Societies. What should be a good thing is almost always ruined by the fact that they inevitably contain at least a few morons who don't rake bunkers and don't repair pitchmarks. Inconsiderate morons as a rule p**s me off.

This thing about bunkers allowed to be in a poor condition comes up again and again. It is worth remembering the following:

The tour average for getting up and down from bunkers in 2011 so far is a mere 51%, bear in mind this stat is related to professional golfers from a well groomed and maintained bunker.
If this is the tour average for guys who make their living at being able to play bunkers then an ordinary club golfer clearly does not need to be hindered further by a size 9 footprint or poorly raked sand. Therefore a bunker is already punishment enough without making the surface more difficult.

Maintaining bunkers is not at all difficult or time consuming, so there is no excuse.

As an aside, the second best bunker player (or the one who has the highest sand save percentage) on the European Tour ( Bjorn) only has a success rate of 73.9%, the top player has a 100% record but has only been in one bunker.

My personal pet hate is poorly maintained tees, and long grass on the tees. Also holes that are not recut often enough and so have poor quality edges and whose placings are not very well thought out.

MY pet hates are cats. People who keep them as pets are depriving the homeless of cheap and easily available food source.

Speaking of cats, Mac's been away for a while now, as a man who despises moggies maybe he's got a job clearing the Edinburgh streets of the feline vermin with the sharp end of his hickory shafted niblick.

LondonJonnyO wrote:MY pet hates are cats. People who keep them as pets are depriving the homeless of cheap and easily available food source.

Hah! I'll set my two moggies on to you. Personally, I like them a lot better then many people I have the misfortune to know.

Unrepaired pitch marks!

Why, why, why?? It only takes 2 secs to repair and the ones that complain the loudest are usually the the biggest culprits.

Something else that annoys me at my club is old divots lying around on the fairways. We have a small number of holes where you get a lot of people playing wedges from. The birds pick at the divots to look for worms so there are a scattering of them all over the place. I think the greenkeepers should be collecting these up first thing in the morning to make the place look smarter. We have the sand/seed bags to fill in divots so the condition of the fairways isn't too bad, just the visual side of things that annoys me.

To be honest, I have very few pet hates on the golf course. I generally think that you get what you pay for on golf courses so if a pay and play has awful bunkers, unrepaired pitchmarks and unreplaced divots then that sadly is what is expected.

The one thing that does annoy me is poor use of the opportunities with a golf club. A BBQ after 9 offering bacon/sausages in the morning and burgers in the afternoon would make fortunes at most golf clubs but you rarely see things like this. Poor pro shops are also inexcusable and these types of missed opportunities seem baffling when there are a lot of businesses struggling financially.

D4S

In my time looking after golf courses I can strongly agree with you that the ones who complain the most are the biggest culprits.
Slow play
Divots
Pitchmarks
Cheating

Probable exception is the dress code('')

My pet hate is golfers who say, when someone complains about a bunker, 'well it is a hazard' !!

That is true, but that is no excuse for them to be unraked or badly maintained!!

I'm with harrison. A bbq is a great idea. Throw a cat on there and invite a tranp and its ideal

JD

in 'ye olde days' there was no such thing as bunker rakes, you got what you was gived in a bunker.

Are you a man or a mouse?

drive4show wrote:JD

in 'ye olde days' there was no such thing as bunker rakes, you got what you was gived in a bunker.

Are you a man or a mouse?

At least wait until his mrs is back so he can ask her

Im all man, I aksed you boyfriend LJ - he says I am!! (sorry the reply was a bit obvious)

Anyway, Of course in the old days there were no rakes, but now there are, and they should be used.

The people who use the 'it is a hazard ' line, are usually the same ones who say (when the greens are garbage) 'it's the same for everyone'!!

My reply to that, is that 'NO it isnt' - and point out that the top players make their scores on or around the greens, and bad/slow greens actually are a huge disadvantage to better players.

I compare this too the bunker thing - for people who are happy just to get out, the state of the bunker is irrelevant, whereas to me, hoping to get up and down, I at least expect a chance to do so.

The great Jack Nicklaus advocated removing every other tooth from the rakes so that pro's don't get perfect lies every time. In fact, didn't he do this one year in his tournament at Muirfield?

drive4show wrote:The great Jack Nicklaus advocated removing every other tooth from the rakes so that pro's don't get perfect lies every time. In fact, didn't he do this one year in his tournament at Muirfield?

that seems like a lot of effort, surely he could just buy wider rakes...

NedB-H wrote:

drive4show wrote:The great Jack Nicklaus advocated removing every other tooth from the rakes so that pro's don't get perfect lies every time. In fact, didn't he do this one year in his tournament at Muirfield?

that seems like a lot of effort, surely he could just buy wider rakes...

Dunno...I've never googled 'wide tooth rakes' to see what comes up

Wouldn't it come up with a picture of Leslie Phillips?

d4s,
Pros hated it, one or two stopped playing Memorial . . . . .

kwini

I'd say that's a bit of a result then? Sorts out the men from the boys, those that fancy their skills against the rest of the field?

doon, may go on the sunday. playing th open at f&r on the saturday, but depends how i'm feeling after a week of golf and a 36er on sat. might just put my feet up and watch it from the clubhouse!
yourself?

15 of the holes are good on my course; 3 are not so good. The second hole is about 380yds second shot into a narrow raised green, gert big bunkers at front and side. I think the turf on the green must have a concrete base, because no-one (even LJ would struggle with one of his high wedges) can get the soddin ball to stop on the green; which means you inevitably go over the back and have a deft chip to try and save par. The fourth is kidney-shaped par 3 with another gert big bunker dissecting the green. There are a couple of pin possys where you can be on the green and unable to putt to the hole. Seems a bit odd. The 13th (par 5) is a 3-tiered dog-leg green. Again you can be on it and unable to putt anywhere near the pin. Some would call this imaginative course design but I think these 3 holes are poor and let my home course down slightly.

I dont buy this view of "well you shouldnt go in them anyway" - just nonsense.

Bunkers are an important part of the course and course design. Shots to greens are sometimes inches from being amazing but end up in bunkers. if the bunker is poor and the ball rolls/stops under the lip then its not just a case of saying dont go in them. Its a case of saying it needs to be at least fair!

A well maintained bunker is still a hazard and you have to make a good shot and work hard to get out of them - up and downs are still hard to do from a good bunker. A badly maintained bunker makes a challenging par almost unplayable. Thats not the spirit of golf is it? Just like 5 hour rounds due to huge rough and US open style beliefs club golfers should be tested...golf is hard enough and thus should be at least fun for all. Read the R&A website about improving pace of play. Clubs need to listen more to them and not idiots trying to make open qualifying courses for the saturday roll up crowd.

Im a low handicap golfer...i can get out of most rudey poo i find myself in...watching a 17handicap golfer struggle to get out of a bunker when all he/she did was slightly hit off line is not fun. Wading through knee deep rough on a saturday medal for the same 17 h/cap golfer is not fun and just means long rounds of searching for balls.

I might hit the fairways and miss the badly maintained bunkers but i still have to take 5 hours for a round as the average golfer struggles. Where is the fun and enjoyment?

Im sure some idiot though will still say "dont go in the rough/bunker, play short, course management blah blah" - but the point is with over 100 golfers playing in a medal going off in 8min slots etc even a small number going into the rough/bunkers will have a huge impact to everyones enjoyment not just thier own.

Onetoanother....


I agree with you, at least someone has got the point, but sadly there is always a smart bum who knows better!

"Well don't go in the bunker, rough, water, trees,etc"

If only golf was that easy.

onetoanother - excellent post.

our new course used to be vicious. it's hard enough but with waist deep rough a few yards off the fairways, it was brutal. thankfully the light was seen a few years ago and it is now a much fairer test of golf.

re the original post. we have 2 teams of greenkeepers, one for each course and the competition between them as to whom has the best kept course is fantastic for us gowfers!

Pet hates on the course are pretty clear.
Un-repaired pitch marks, unreplaced Divots and yes unraked bunkers.
I don't expect a good lie and an easy shot in a bunker but by the same token I don't expect to have to play out of a 3 inch deep heelprint either. All of the 3 above are sheer bloody laziness and very poor form.

Lack of awareness of fellow golfers also grates a bit. Worst manifestations being
Slow play and not letting groups behind play through.
Being excessively loud when another group are driving/putting.

Finally, being dealt an excessive amount of bad luck in a round and it not balancing out with an equal amount of good luck

Why pick on 17 handicappers??

JDandfries wrote:Onetoanother....


I agree with you, at least someone has got the point, but sadly there is always a smart bum who knows better!

It's debatable who has got the point, there are always two sides to any argument.

I maintain that if you go into a bunker, you should run the risk of being punished. But this opens up a whole new discussion about the merits of good course design. Take somewhere like Chart Hills, bunkers everywhere you look. Might look dramatic to the eye but does that make it a good design?
Courses should have bunkers positioned to add risk/reward elements to a hole. If you want to take on a tight pin position behind a bunker then fine, do so at your own risk. If you are a high handicapper, play to the wide part of the green then 2 putt. You get your nett birdie that way. If you want to try for a gross birdie and it doesn't come off then fine, that is your choice. If you want to take the challenge and strategy out of the game then golf would be a lot worse off.

As for knee high penal rough, don't get me started on that one! My old course was like that, if you went off the fairway it was a lost ball. Would have been better off having water all down the sides of every fairway, at least that way you could drop out to the side.

Holes not moved regularily and getting crowned.Simple common sense stuff like tee markers not moved.makes me so angry

Im all for risk and reward - but badly maintained bunkers is what we were kinda discussing (i brought rough into it a bit as its a bug bear of mine as its increasing time per round). To me thats about the ball plugging in faces, not rolling to the bottom of bunkers, badly raked, too much sand, not enough sand etc.

Go for a pin and end up in bunker - fair enough. But end in bunker in unplayable lie? Bonkers. greens coms and staff should be setting the course up for regular play for those members to have fun. Not to have shoddy bunkers that create unplayable golf. Proper risk reward means once in a bunker being able to get up and down or at least a chance for par.

Sorry not picking on 17h/cap but i beleive its around the average UK H/cap for golfers.

Yes, I would agree that 17 is a pretty average handicap and would agree that a typical player of that ability won't be the best bunker player in the world.

I don't have a problem with bunkers in the sense that if I go into them, I expect to be punished. I'm a reasonable bunker player, not the best but not the worst. Most of the time, we get a reasonable lie in the bunkers but the issue seems to be that we all expect a GOOD lie every time we go in one.

I firmly believe that shouldn't be the case. If we are going to make it easy to escape unpunished, may as well fill all the bunkers in and replace them with nicely mown chipping areas.

I think my pet hate re bunkers is a bit more specific, if you know that bunkers are poorly maintained on your own course (lack of sand, poor sand type, inconsistency in depth of sand etc) then you know what to expect. What you don't expect is a big lazy ignoramus 3 groups in front trudging and hacking his way through bunkers and having no idea why a rake is placed by each bunker!!

I think all anyone wants from a bunker is consistancy...not consistantly rubbish though. Not a case of escaping unpunished...you still have to play a good shot from a well maintained bunker. Its the quality of the shot i think we all want to achieve out of a bunker...not the chance of a lucky break or not. Go in bunkers normally means you ahve to play a good shot to recover. Thats what golf is about.

total nonsense saying should fill them in. I normally respect reading your posts D4S but thats just a flippant remark i would expect from my son...sorry if that offends.

drive4show wrote:

JDandfries wrote:Onetoanother....


I agree with you, at least someone has got the point, but sadly there is always a smart bum who knows better!

It's debatable who has got the point, there are always two sides to any argument.

I maintain that if you go into a bunker, you should run the risk of being punished. But this opens up a whole new discussion about the merits of good course design. Take somewhere like Chart Hills, bunkers everywhere you look. Might look dramatic to the eye but does that make it a good design?
Courses should have bunkers positioned to add risk/reward elements to a hole. If you want to take on a tight pin position behind a bunker then fine, do so at your own risk. If you are a high handicapper, play to the wide part of the green then 2 putt. You get your nett birdie that way. If you want to try for a gross birdie and it doesn't come off then fine, that is your choice. If you want to take the challenge and strategy out of the game then golf would be a lot worse off.

As for knee high penal rough, don't get me started on that one! My old course was like that, if you went off the fairway it was a lost ball. Would have been better off having water all down the sides of every fairway, at least that way you could drop out to the side.

Don't miss the fairway then!!!!

Only joshing about the 17 handicapper thing Onetoanother

I'm a 17 and i definitely am not the best bunker player!!
Oddly i don't spend too much time in them, which is lucky!!

MustPuttBetter wrote:Only joshing about the 17 handicapper thing Onetoanother

I'm a 17 and i definitely am not the best bunker player!!
Oddly i don't spend too much time in them, which is lucky!!

Must be one of those rare 17 handicappers sensible enough to pick up the ball before taking enough shots to get greenside.

I can get to the green, it's getting off them that's the problem

MustPuttBetter wrote:I can get to the green, it's getting off them that's the problem

Degreening is easy. Just hit putts harder.

But what if it rolls into a poorly manicured bunker?

Easy. Pick it up as a bad job and go to the bar. Depending of course on the length of the walk. I also carry a hipflask for such eventualities. Or a hamlet. Either way you're onto a winner.

d4s, the problem for the high handicapper is that whilst they may aim for the safe side of the green, that's not always the end result!

also, for high and mid handicappers, picking the ball cleanly off the surface of a fairway bunker/ sandtrap is tough enough without the bunker being in a rubbish state too.