Why are the Blues Written Off?

The general conscenus it seems from many on 606 is that the Cardiff Blues simply don't have the players to compete and could/should suffer for it next season. Looking at their squad I would say that I think they although they lack some depth, they have a very competant starting XV and good talented reserves in some areas.

To me their best XV is:

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Rhys Thomas
03 Scott Andrews
04 Bradley Davies
05 Mike Paterson
06 Andreus Pretorious
07 Sam Warburton
08 Xavier Rush
09 Richie Rees
10 Dan Parks
11 Tom James
12 Casey Laulala
13 Jamie Roberts
14 Leigh Halfpenny
15 Dan Fish

16 Gareth Williams
17 John Yapp
18 Taufa'ao Filise
19 Paul Tito
20 Martyn Williams
21 Lloyd Williams
22 Ceri Sweeney
23 Dafydd Hewitt

To me that team is certainly capable of topping a Heineken Cup pool with London Irish, Edinburgh and Racing Metro. They wouldn't be favourites nor would it be easy but they are capable of 5 victories in that group.

It is a fairly strong and very experienced bench in many areas and in addition players like Deniol Jones, Ben Blair and Maama Molitika can be called upon outside that. The trouble is that compared to other Welsh regions, in fact compared to other Magners League teams there just doesn't seem to be a functioning conveyour belt of young players coming into the team. I think developing the promising Dan Fish is something that needs to be looked at, as does giving young Welsh players the chance at playing in the Magners Leauge. The Blues have not recruited this year so I am really hoping to see more young players like Warburton and Fish get game time.

You may have noticed I have Roberts and Laulala at 13 and 12 instead of the other way around. I can never figure out why they have the creative Laulala playing off the more abrasive Roberts. Yes, Roberts earned his crust back in 2009 as a very good 12 but I think the Blues best chance of success is having Laulala creating chances for Roberts to explode onto from deep and at pace.

Although Parks has talents the Blues need to consider if they are compatible with the team. He is written off by many but I think if the grizzled Blues pack can keep him on the front foot he will be able to compete. Developing younger options especially at flyhalf is a must especially with Parks away most of the season opener due to World Cup committments.

This Blues side are capable of a 4th place finish and Heinken Cup quarter finals. They may not make it there but they are capable of doing it.

Pretty sure both Martyn Williams and Tito are gone.

Martyn Williams isn't Munster. He's signed an extension.

Are they gone or just gone from the starting team?

Newspaper suggests a 1 year extension for Williams was signed - http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/rugby-news/2011/03/22/former-wales-flanker-martyn-williams-to-end-his-career-at-cardiff-blues-55578-28383565/

I can find nothing to say that Tito has left them.

Perhaps because you've got Dan Parks at 10. Although he is a very good tactical kicker you are never going to utilise the backs you've got with him at 10. It's no coincidence that The Blues look a far more dangerous prospect when Sweeney plays...

Didn't they say that Williams was being let go? Why the U-turn?

He was, but in the end they changed their mind and offered him an extension. Obviously a Blues fan would know more. He was rumoured to be Rodney Parade bound (Idle Western Fail gossip), but then after a slight gap they announced he was being signed on.

Despite all the stick he has taken over the years Sweeny IMO is a fra better option than Parks at 10. Any idea of an attacking game is gone sson as Parks is picked.

Also pretty sure Blair would still be first choice XV. The same could be said for the O's when you list their team as to why they have under achieved on the big stage - Is it down to coahcing or are the players just not as good as people think.

Red_Stag I can only go by what I see but of all Ulster's opponents this year they seemed to lack heart more than anyone else. Is everything well in the camp ?

With Warbs and probs Nugget going to the WC it'll leave a big gap for Nividi to fill during the start of the season. Which hopfully he'll step up to the mark and do a good job. With regards to Tito and Deniol, i think they're past their best and where everyone is talking about Dan Fish, i think that the big up and comer this season will be Macaulay Cook. Would be nice to see him geting some regional rugby at the start of the season. Sam Hobbs too.

But on track with the OP's point. I think if we sort out our coaching and play Ceri over Parks. Then we'll do well.

Lloyd Williams looks like he could really challenge for the starting job next term.

To be honest I think the Blues are getting written off on the grounds of the poor showing they had last season. There seems to be some sort of complacency in the Blues at the moment, as if after winning the Amlin they believe that they are truely leagues above the other welsh competition, and are amongst the european giants. Also I would say that the fact the Scarlets and Dragons have improved last season has made the slight slump in the Blues appear far worse than it actually is.

I think if they get a new coach next season that things will pick up, but i have a feeling that if they don't the Dragons, Scarlets, Blues and Ospreys may well all be going into the final week of the League wondering if they will be playing in europe the following season.

To be fair Irish have gone backwards a bit (like Blues) and are only at a similar level . Racing are obviously the class act in the group, but you never know with French clubs and the HC.
Endinburgh were pretty dire last seaosn and are always no mark sin Europe.

So yes its not impossible for Blues to qualify form their group, but thats not because they are a good side or likely to suddenly improve next season.

I think the Blues' problem is that their pack didn't really perform this season (they really missed Geth Jenks I think), and I think most of their starteres in the forwards are now the wrong side of the age line, I think they're really going to struggle there next season.

The next problem is who they play at 10. Dan Parks just doesn't seem to suit them. Whether that's because he isn't getting good enough ball to work with I dunno.

Blues need to sort out their front row and 10, then I think they could be a good, if not very good, side.

Their pack is no great shakes. If they had a stronger pack they could get away with Parks at ten playing ten-man rugby. But they're not good enough.

If Josh Navidi is a success in the Pro 12, I'll eat my dreadlocks.

dreamer, spot on, I think the issue is that pretty much the same team (ex-Gethin) underperformed last year given the expectations around what they were capable of, particularly after a decent showing the season before.

Why Yapp and Andrews are in the Welsh squad is beyond me. Both have been found wanting in the Magners and its this area that Welsh Regions as a whole are struggling in.

I cannot believe how easy Mitchell was allowed to go to Exeter and that no one has made genuine bids to get Gill and Lewis Roberts into one of the Regions.

Scarlets couldn't afford to bid for Mitchell bedford, and to be fair we've got enough props on our books as it is.

We have: no1: Iestyn Thomas, Phil John, Rhodri Jones then no3: Deacon Manu, Rhys Thomas, Peter Edwards and Simon Gardiner.

Manu may or may not be leaving, but with the wages R Thomas is already on, no way we could have bought Mitchell. It is annoying he's left Wales though.

Agree with you about Yapp and Andrews though, they just aren't good enough. Blues really need to get some better props in if they want to be competitive.

Injuries really took there toll on the Blues this season,

Gethin, Roberts, Halfpenny, Rush, Blair, Rees and L.Williams have all missed large sections of the season.

The really problems are shown in that team - 3, 10 and 15

"in addition players like Deniol Jones, Ben Blair and Maama Molitika can be called upon outside that" - If Ben Blair recovers from his injury (which is unlikely) he WILL be 1st choice at 15, his absence is one of the reasons our backs were so poor this year - Blair is one of the best counterattacking FBs with great running lines, he is also one of the top goal kickers in all competitions. Also, if Blair plays, we can play Sweeney.

I also think Filise is still a better option at 3, although I have been impressed with the improvement of Andrews this season.


Anyway, even if we dont achieve anything next year, ill just be watching this on repeat....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7996656.stm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmS0m45IYS4

I suggest everyone watches that first clip before underestimating us

If the blues can get in z coach that can get their talented back-line firing then they could have a decent season. Last season they weren't very expansive and a lack of tries cost them as they won more ML games than any other region but didn't get the bonus points.
I do think that it's an ageing squad and I can't see them making the ML play- offs or the HC quarters and I agree with scarlet that the race to make the heineken next year will be a very tight 4 horse race and if it's the blues that miss out, that will be another financial blow to a team that aren't spending this summer.
I think they're being written off, not just because they blew the play-offs, but more the manner of their performances.
I think dai young has allowed the team to grow old and hasnt introduced new faces where it's been necessary.
2 fly halves in their 30's. Filise, molitika, Blair, Tito, rush all all over 30 and are all overseas. It would be good to see the youth given more of a chance.

MOG

Molitika has been replaced by Pretorious
Williams has been replaced by Warburton
Blair has been replaced by Fish/Czechaj
Filise is being replaced by Andrews
Tito is being replaced by Paterson
Rush was going to be replaced by Powell, then Delve - but....

Molitika, filise, Tito and rush were all part of the squad that played the dragons and 3 of them started. So did parks. Blair would have but he's injured. It's an ageing team with more NWQ than any other region and the blues rely heavily on their overseas stars.
You even like welsh players with foreign sounding names like czekaj!!!!
Those foreigners will gradually be replaced, but they'll all feature heavily next season. Even more so with it being world cup year. Gareth Williams another in his 30's and he was dreadful at the end of last season. Deinilo jones another in his 30's. I hope whoever comes in to coach the team will Resnais the blues style and bring through more welsh players like San fish and warburtom.

Molitika didnt start - Warburton and Williams played at 6 and 7 for the first time

Moitika wouldnt have been in the 22 if Pretorious was fit.

Filise is soon to be replaced by Andrews as Andrews is improving all the time and Filise is declining with age - the natural progression of Talent vs Experience.

Rush is a talisman, just like Lyons at the Scarlets and Collins at the Ospreys

Tito slipped out of the starting 15 at the end of the season, so has already been replaced

Deniol Jones hasnt played for the Blues for ages, he might make the bench next season, but I imagine Cook will take his place pretty quickly.

Blair has been out for the whole season and is likely to retire so has been replaced by Fish/Czecaj - No NWQ problem here

Parks only plays because we need a kicker - Halfpenny has been kicking all season (when Parks isnt playing) and will probably replace Parks next season, so Sweeney can play - as for 30 year old FHs, there isnt much we can do about that with no money.

"You even like welsh players with foreign sounding names like czekaj!!!!" - How is that relevant?

Gareth Williams is 2nd choice behind THThomas (who was injured) who was excellent at the start of the season



Also, "San fish" "Warburtom" and "Deinilo" - I think you need a new keyboard...

606. I know you hate people critising the blues.
Molitika came on against the dragons and so did deiniol. Do you even watch your region??????
If these players have been replaced why have none of them been released. Filise also started!!'
Do the blues gave the oldest squad with the most nwq out of all the regions? Yes! Simples!!!
Sorry about the spelling I'm on my phone. But my spelling is the only thing I've got wrong because everything else I've said is correct.
It's not a personal attack it's there for all to see.

As for the czekaj comment. For gods sake man get a grip. It was a joke!!!!
Much like you!!!!

debate is fine, and we've got a great one going here. Personal digs or whatever are not fine so if everyone could leave them out that would be fab. Thank you.

MOG - Molitika came on - as I said, he was in the 22 - But only because Pretorious was injured. The Dragons game showed that even Warburton is prefered at 6.

Just because they have been replaced doesnt mean they should be released! - Its a phrase called STRENGTH IN DEPTH - As happens in ever team in the world, the older player who are not first choice stay on to help the youngsters and provide cover if anyone in the 1st team is injured.


Next years 1st team

1. Gethin Jenkins (30)
2. TRThomas (29)
3. Scott Andrews (21)
4. Bradley Davies (24)
5. Mike Paterson (26)
6. Andreus Pretorious (25)
7. Sam Warburton (22)
8. Xavier Rush (34)
9. Lloyd Williams (22)
10. Ceri Sweeney (31)
11. Tom James (24)
12. Jamie Roberts (24)
13. Casey Laulaula (29)
14. Leigh Halfpenny (22)
15. Dan Fish (20)

Average age - 25.5

Hardly an old team?

Number of NWQ - 3

Molitika 37. Don't you think he's stayed a little too long. And if you really think that team will start you are deluded.
What's the point arguing over guess work?
Let's wait til next season and see what happens.
Anyone could put out 15 welsh players, even the i's but it wont happen.
I'd be as delighted as anyone if the team you selected plays and I mean that. I just want to see as many talented welsh players exposed to top level rugby as i's possible.
I admire how you back up your region but you have to admit things aren't right at the blues and performances show as much.

"And if you really think that team will start you are deluded. "

Really?

Who is that team wouldnt?

Czechaj may replace Fish
Dan Parks may start, but I doubt it.
L.Williams will replace Rees by Christmas.

Wales 606, what do you make about the point I raised about the centre pairing?

"You may have noticed I have Roberts and Laulala at 13 and 12 instead of the other way around. I can never figure out why they have the creative Laulala playing off the more abrasive Roberts. Yes, Roberts earned his crust back in 2009 as a very good 12 but I think the Blues best chance of success is having Laulala creating chances for Roberts to explode onto from deep and at pace."

They have major weaknesses for me at 3 and 10, which are arguably the two most important positions on the pitch. Also I would say their coaching has been a weakness, they've failed to deliver a coherent gameplan consistently across the course of any season and they have no resources to strengthen the side.

But if their coach changes it may arguably work in their favour. Most sports teams enjoy a bounce in form when a new coach comes in, regardless of who it is. The order being shaken up tends to increase competition for places and give everybody a point to prove.

They are dark horses for me this year. They have plenty of good players and could do well, I just think that the don't have the nous in key position to deliver a trophy. I can't see them running away with a Top Four spot and expect them to be in the same position they were in this season; fighting for a playoff spot with a few other teams with a few weeks of the regular season left.

Topic. Why are the blues being written off?

Manofgwent.
I'm not writing them off at all.
I see them in the shake up for the HC.
Definates to make the play-offs in the Celtic.
a young vibrant welsh squad and the bench mark for all other regions to follow.

I give up 606. You wore me down. I'm off to buy the pink kit now and gonna treat myself to a blues season ticket.

I can't be bothered to argue about something I don't really care about. Let's bring on the new season and we'll see for ourselves what happens. I was only expressing my opinion. In truth I'd love it if you missed out on HC qualification and get knocked out in the group stages. Id also be over the moon if howley gets the job and your stadium caves in.
Sorry but you made me say that.
Call me sad but my brothers coming round on the weekend as he's been living away and still hasn't seen the dragons v blues game. I'll be getting in the beers and the munchies and kick back and watch us destroy your rabble.
Frankly I frigging hate the blues with a passion and supporters like yourself!

606.

red_stag wrote:Wales 606, what do you make about the point I raised about the centre pairing?

"You may have noticed I have Roberts and Laulala at 13 and 12 instead of the other way around. I can never figure out why they have the creative Laulala playing off the more abrasive Roberts. Yes, Roberts earned his crust back in 2009 as a very good 12 but I think the Blues best chance of success is having Laulala creating chances for Roberts to explode onto from deep and at pace."

Im not sure to be honest.

I noticed at the end of the season that Laulaula was standing in at 10 a lot when Parks was unable to (when really the 12 should step in), Laulaula is probably a better distributer than Roberts.

But at 13, Laulaula has more time to open up defences, he isnt exactly small either and is excellent at breaking a tackle when he gets up speed, he is also excellent at getting the ball away to the back 3

I think perhaps we should try Laulaula at 12 to see as he has all the skills and we need a 13 for Wales.
If Roberts can time his runs off Laulaula and Parks he could be devistating in midfield and Laulaula would be able to clean up any bad ball from 10, but wouldnt be able to use his speed and ability to link with the back 3 so....

Its certainly an interesting idea, I think Roberts only ever started at 12 because Shanks was at 13. Did Laulaula play at 12 or 13 for the Crusadors?

manofgwent wrote:Topic. Why are the blues being written off?

Frankly I frigging hate the blues with a passion and supporters like yourself!

.

Am I hated for supporting my region? Or just for supporting the Blues?

Did Peter Thomas do something to you as a child?

You are simply a numpty.
Yes Peter Thomas did do something. I ate on his pies! Haven't been the same since.
I don't hate you coz your a blues fan.

606. Do you dress up in the pink kit and pretend your Alfie??? Ha ha!!!!

Im arrogant for argueing my point?

Also, homophobia is gay...

You're hilarious!

enough of the insults please people. I did put a politer request in earlier. This thread has got a great debate going without the need for the mud slinging. Thank you.

One person is behaving like a tool here - and it pretty clear who

Geoff, leave rugbydreamer alone, she's only doing her job!

He started it!!!!

606 that i's a joke!!!!!!

??? How did I start it? By supporting my team?

back on topic please everyone.

Wales606 - as 10 seems to be a bit of a problem position for the Blues at the moment, do you know of any youngsters coming through in the region Both the Scarlets and O's have got players coming through there, but I've not heard much coming from the Blues?

Dont see Blues doing much next season and the reasons have already been mainly pointed out. Top 4 in the Magners is very unlikely for me as I think Leinster, Munster and Ulster will all be there again.

The Blues tight 5 looks very lightweight, teams with a big scrum will hurt them which is what happened a lot last season. The other predicament is how to get the ball to the centres and back 3 with Parks at 10. On top of this they have made almost no signings and are losing their head coach. So new coach coming into a team that struggles for physicality upfront and a backline that isnt scoring tries.

Where are the signings??

All in all I see a poor season ahead for the Blues despite the luck of the draw theyve had with their HC group.

Dodge, no signings at all it seems. I wonder is it a money decision or a stubborness that the current lads are good enough,

Money decisions Stag. They've had trouble financially for the last couple of seasons.

dreamer,

Thats what I am most frustrated about - Our academy has produced some props, locks, backrowers, centres, wingers, fullbacks, SHs - but not a single 10!

The Blues academy 10s are fairly average and there are no promising youngsters that I have heard of.

However, for next season Gareth Davies, the CRFC FH and Wales 7s player is being given a proffessional contract. He has been good in LV games, although he is about 28 so wont be the solution some fans are hoping for. It looks like it will be Parks and Sweeney for another year, but hopefully whoever the new coach is will be given some money to buy a 10 and THP (since I imgaine more players will leave/retire next year - Parks, Molitika, Filise, Rush, Martyn and probably some others will be off next year so that should be a large part of the wage bill dealt with and we will be able to bring in some players - and will have quite a young squad infact )

Does anybody think, what if Nicky Robinson had never left for Gloucester....?

Stag I think it's a lack of money, mainly down to how much the blues spend on renting the CCS. I know they say they average 10,000, but a he'll of a lot of those tickets are given away.
If the blues do struggle to qualify for the HC next year then surely that problem will get a whole lot worse.