Next season for Welsh regions, Should we be optimistic ?

Who else is looking forward to watching the Welsh side's next season ? It seems as though, that there are big changes in the air as with regards to the regions. It seems as though all four regions are going to be using their younger players rather than relying on southern hemisphere counterparts. Also we have the Dargons with their shiny new stadium, Cardiff Blues will be looking for a new director of rugby, and will the Ospreys be looking at their academies to replace Hook, Burne, Collins, Holah ? I for one cannot wait to see how the next season unfolds, what with the World Cup, and who the regions will the gaps with. Hopefully some of the younger players like Matthew Morgan, Tuperic, Aaron Shingler, Scott Williams, and many other's that I could go on about. For me the fact that our regions are more or less having their hands forced due to financial restraints is the reason why this will make next season very interesting, all be it very long as our younger player cut their teeth but we could see the making of four very decent regions brimming with Welsh qualified players which was what the whole point of regionalism was about in the first place, so whilst I am not expecting any trees to be turned over in europe the league could be well within reach for our young players to aspire to achieve. What does everyone else think ?

Theres nothing wrong with optimism but it must be balanced with a bit of realism.

The O's have lost a lot of big names so it will be good to see how their youngsters go - that said there shouldn't be as much expected of them.

Us Dragons will need to make a strong start to the season unlike last where we were playing catch up most of the season. Will be great to see the new Dave up and running but again strength in depth will be our problem. If (hopefully) Lydiate, Faletau,Brew and Charterris (not think Burns will make it) all go to the WC then we could struggle when they are rested upon return.

The Scarlets need to sort their scrum and defence out, whilst they play some great attacking rugby the seem to leak tries quite easily.

The Blues - Really not know what to expect from them this season as they have the squad but again seem to have lost something. If they get a new Director/Coach in then that always seems to focus players and results in some good performances

To be honest i can't see it. but stranger things have happened

All the new changes to personnel at the Ospreys and Blues are positive, and the appointment of Darren Edwards at the Dragons was a great move.

Cardiff Blues have needed a new coach for a while, Dai Young was never up to the job, their success was due to the players not the set up. With the talent available to them over the last four years they should have more regularly gone further.

The Ospreys could possibly also do with a shake up in the coaching staff, but one step at a time. This year sees all the big names in the backline leave in one fell swoop. This should give them a new fresh line of attack. Without the creative responsibilities falling on the same few shoulders. Good for the players who have left too.

The Scarlets will build on the good stuff they did last year, great squad, young fresh enthusiastic and they play for each other.

I'm looking forward to next season - Scarlets scrum and defence got steadily better throughout the season. Looks like Simon Gardiner could be a useful tight head in years to come - the look of shock on Leicester fans faces as he locked out their scrum in the PYS match was a beauty!

Not that I think next season will be the one for us - VERY tough HC pool - but I can see us finishing top 4 in the League ... maybe even top placed welsh region.

TBS mate,

It would be great to see the Scarlets rise to their former glories.

I am a big fan of Gardiner too, unlucky injury during a great season, and for such a young player too.

To be honest I think that next season should be the most interesting season since regionalism. So far we have always had one (or two) stand out regions, and one (or two) no hopers. It has always been a case of the Ospreys will be in the HC joined by the Blues and Scarlets (or Dragons). This season however I have a real feeling that the balence of power amongst the regions has shifted somewhat. I honestly think that come the back end of the season we will be sitting there (all four regions) biting our nails about the different, mathematically possible, ways we can still qualify for the automatic HC spots.

I'm glad the situation is the way it is.
Firstly Welsh regions are at the point where they can no longer compete for big name Tri Nations players who wish to make move to Europe or Japan. Welsh regions can at most afford £250k a year for star players and top players are looking for 400-500k a year, that they can get in France and Japan. It's clear most regions aren't willing to put themselves in financial difficulties by paying silly money.
Being honest Mike Phillips, Lee Bryne and Jerry Collins best days are behind them and all 3 appear to be on the slide. Craig Mitchell wanted an international players wage when he was second choice tight head at the region so letting him go was sensible especially since we already have the third choice tight head in Paul James anyway. Hook is a big blow, but he seems to have a cob on that Johnson wont play him at fly half, though when he has been given chances he hasnt delivered. Seeing as we have Morgan coming through we don't really need him. As an Ospreys supporter I'm pretty happy with how everything has panned out, we have talented young players coming through in the backline and the internationals werent performing anyway.
The Ospreys last season lacked energy, creativity, and adventure last season. Hopefully the Likes of Matthew Morgan and Rhys Webb will be given a chance next season and we can redress these problems.

AlynDavies wrote: top players are looking for 400-500k a year, that they can get in France and Japan.

You don't have to pay that much - Ulster have Pienaer, Payne, Afoa and Muller and none are on that sort of money and nor was BJ Botha before them

What's going on here !!!, I know it might be old news to most people but I have only just found out that Aaron Shingler has been released from the Scarlets and is joining London Irish. What is that all about ? I thought he was one for the future and a potential Wales player. What with the Blues allowing their youngsters to sign for Connacht, we should be keeping all our players with potential here, in Wales, where they belong.

geoff998rugby wrote:

AlynDavies wrote: top players are looking for 400-500k a year, that they can get in France and Japan.

You don't have to pay that much - Ulster have Pienaer, Payne, Afoa and Muller and none are on that sort of money and nor was BJ Botha before them

Thats the sort of money that Japan and some French clubs are offering.
Payne is reportedly on 350K a year.

Steven Shingler, the No.10, has signed for London Irish, Aaron Shingler is the lock whose still at the Scarlets.

It is a shame that Steven is gone as he does look very promising, but as he was behind Jones, Priestland and was battling Newton and Evans for the 3rd spot he decided to look for more regular rugby and LI offered him a lot more money than we could.

The thing I can't understand is why the Blues didn't go for him...

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The thing I can't understand is why the Blues didn't go for him...

Matthew Morgan and Priestland have approached the Blues this season with a view of moving to them and both were turned down. Either the Blues have lost faith in Dai's ability to judge players potential or they haven't got 2 pennies to rub together.

I'm not overly optimistic about next season from a Scarlets point of view. We have a young team who have potential but its too early for them to make a big impact especially so far as the HC goes. Think we'll be finishing close to the play-offs or if we are lucky we might sneak in. If the squad sticks together and continues to show the development it has then, with the addition of one or two players, we could be a very good team in 2-3 years.

The Ospreys' youngsters may struggle a little this season although there are a good few old heads there as well, it may be a question of whether they can play as a team instead of individuals, with some of the 'stars' gone you never know.

The Dragons are going to struggle if they lose a few players to the WC squad but then nobody likes to play against them at Dave Parade. Will probably be Scarlets and Dragons fighting it out again for the 4th Welsh region.

The Blues are I think the best placed region to do something this season. They have a good squad and a new coach coming in often takes the team to the next level, the players seem to wake up a bit when there is a change of boss. The Blues may do well this year.

Oh well, my mistake, sorry smirnoff, but he is still a young WQ who is now leaving Wales, as for players going to the Blues, they will not sign a new no. 10 until Parks has gone. he still has a year left on his contract and he is on to good a wage to warm the bench and lets be honest who would want to sign him anyway.

AlynDavies wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The thing I can't understand is why the Blues didn't go for him...

Matthew Morgan and Priestland have approached the Blues this season with a view of moving to them and both were turned down. Either the Blues have lost faith in Dai's ability to judge players potential or they haven't got 2 pennies to rub together.

Priestland hasn't approached the blues, this conversation happened on here last week as well, were you the one who spread this rumour then as well?

Yeah it would be madness for Priestland or Morgan to approach the blues - especially as you can see Priestland is poised to take the mantle from Jones.

As for SubsBench, I disagree and think the Blues will be fighting for HC qualification as they have an aging squad with many players best years behind them, with few youngsters coming through and no balance to the team (for example Parks at 10, a good kicker, but with a poor scrum and not great lineout). I can see them struggling when asked to perform without their internationals.

(although I'm not trying to insinuate that the Scarlets or Dragons will have fantastic seasons)

AlynDavies wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

AlynDavies wrote: top players are looking for 400-500k a year, that they can get in France and Japan.

You don't have to pay that much - Ulster have Pienaer, Payne, Afoa and Muller and none are on that sort of money and nor was BJ Botha before them

Thats the sort of money that Japan and some French clubs are offering.
Payne is reportedly on 350K a year.

THe reports are wrong

Maybe you should get D: Ream to reform and rerelease "Things can only get better" yet again.

Joking aside world cup year n that its always hard to say, but can anyone see past the Irish provinces for the Magners?

Lord Dulais - I just figured if the Blues signed Shingler then he, as a young up and coming player, would be perfect to fight it out with Parks and give him some competition. He would also allow the Blues to change their style for certain games, or change the tempo as a sub.

And I don't rate Sweeney at all, too inconsistant and not enough range to his game.

Turkster wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The thing I can't understand is why the Blues didn't go for him...

Matthew Morgan and Priestland have approached the Blues this season with a view of moving to them and both were turned down. Either the Blues have lost faith in Dai's ability to judge players potential or they haven't got 2 pennies to rub together.

Priestland hasn't approached the blues, this conversation happened on here last week as well, were you the one who spread this rumour then as well?

spot on turkster. All this 'Priestland/Morgan approached the blues and they turned them away' talk needs to end because it isn't true. Priestland will likely be Scarlets #1 for future seasons so why move now? And Morgan, he was linked (through rumours) to the blues but there has never been anything more than that

I'm torn between optimism and worry for the Scarlets.

If it wasn't a world cup year, I'd be feeling very happy. We've got a good balance between experience and youth in our squad,, with players fighting for places and more imprtantly they are playing as a team.

I think we're going to struggle the first 2 months and will then always be on the back foot next season, but I think come the end of the season we'll be fighting it out for a play off spot again, which I think right now is all we can expect. I'll be happy with a top 2 welsh region placing I think.

Looking forward to seeing what other youngsters we can blood as well.

gcBlues - Nice to see a Blues fan come out and say that it is all just rumour. Priestland is likely to be the first choice Scarlets fly half by the end of the coming season, with Steve needing to be rested post RWC, and also Steve is getting older and may well need to be managed carefully to allow him to be availlable for the crucial games.

Priestland would be mad to move from PYS as Steve won't be around much more than 1 season after the WC.

Morgan should stay put to IMO and push for regulat bench slots first then push Biggar as first choice.

That sain Holley and Co will most probably think Biggar is better at T/head or somewhere next season move him and chuck Morgan straight in

Surely their should be a half decent outside half in and around the Blues "REGION". They should be identifying this position as a problem and do some decent scouting and find one. I have an idea, it might sound mad, but why can't they look outside Cardiff and try to find players, somewhere like the Valley's, after all it is their region.

sounds a bit of an outrageous idea to me Dowlais, look outside Cardiff? you must be having a laugh...

"Next season for Welsh regions, Should we be optimistic ?"

I always am at the start of the new season. It's like New Years Day, the old one has passed, time to move on. A fresh start, new faces and hopefully some improvement.

"Who else is looking forward to watching the Welsh side's next season ? It seems as though, that there are big changes in the air as with regards to the regions. It seems as though all four regions are going to be using their younger players rather than relying on southern hemisphere counterparts."

Looking at some of the signings of Ospreys and Scarlets it appears that is not the case. Although in fairness to the Scarlets they have developed a lot of and are clearly the best at bringing through the future players lately.

Dragons backline hopefully: Thomas/Jones, Harries, Hughes, Tuilagi, Brew, Tovey, Evans.
Back row: Lydiate, Evans, Faletau.

Front 5 might still get bettered by the likes of Stade Francais and Exeter. Their backline is a very potent weapon and I'd like to seem them make full use of it.

Exactly, rugbydreamer, I always thought that the Blues were supposed to building bridges with the valley's but I hardly see any representatives around Merthyr. Also a season or two ago the club where we run the youth wanted someone from the Blues to come up and do a little talk for our presentation night but everyone at the Blues were to busy. On the other hand we asked the Scarlets and they sent Marc Jones. Makes you wonder why they are struggling for support anywhere north of A470.

LordDowlais wrote:A season or two ago the club where we run the youth wanted someone from the Blues to come up and do a little talk for our presentation night but everyone at the Blues were to busy. On the other hand we asked the Scarlets and they sent Marc Jones. Makes you wonder why they are struggling for support anywhere north of A470.

That's not good at all, is it?

LordDowlais wrote:Exactly, rugbydreamer, I always thought that the Blues were supposed to building bridges with the valley's but I hardly see any representatives around Merthyr. Also a season or two ago the club where we run the youth wanted someone from the Blues to come up and do a little talk for our presentation night but everyone at the Blues were to busy. On the other hand we asked the Scarlets and they sent Marc Jones. Makes you wonder why they are struggling for support anywhere north of A470.

Blimey that really is bad going by the Blues then. They can't afford to ignore the valleys. There's such a huge scope for talented players up there. I'd say that should be their priority over the next couple of seasons, to really look to promote themselves up there. They'd soon start getting more youngsters coming through the ranks I reckon, not to mention more support.

That's what I mean. If they just tried to help more with clubs around the Rhondda, Merthyr, Aberdare area then the supporters would travel down for the region, even if it were to see one of their "own" boys playing. The only recent player I know have to come from the valley's was Tim James and he came from a valley that is not even in their "REGION" he came from Rhumney which is in the GWENT DRAGONS region. Anyway this is all for another thread. So if anybody wants to get it started we can all have a moan on there instead.

Good point Dowlais, I may start one later.

With regards to next season though, there is a huge scope of optimism for the majority of a lot of the regions. The only issues I see facing the scarlets and Dragons really is squad depth. If we both pick up the same number of injuries we had last season, on top of our key players being missing through things like the RWC, we could soon go from optimism to complete doom and gloom!

I'm hoping the Scarlets won't have too many injuries, as we've had a hellish 2 years - so have the Dragons come to that, and with more youngsters coming through for both hopefully they're be more squad rotation, particularly with the internationals coming back 'freshish' around Christmas time to give the youngsters a break.

If that happens then i'm optimistic of being around the play off area/just outside and being within the top 2 welsh regions...

nottins,

Ashley Smith has to be in our backline, it was eveidently clear last season how much we missed him when he didn't play.

He doesn't HAVE to be. Dragons have lacked a solid rock in midfield for quite some time. Smith's a good player but it seems he was missed only because his replacement was half the player he is. Tuilagi would go well especially with Hughes on his outside. Smith could even be moved over and Hughes back on the wing.

it seems like years since i last saw the blues play. next season we should have a new coach and some young players stepping up and making a mark on the league.

it should be a good season for the welsh regions. we might not win anything but it will be the start of a few years of rebuilding all round.

LordDowlais wrote:Exactly, rugbydreamer, I always thought that the Blues were supposed to building bridges with the valley's but I hardly see any representatives around Merthyr. Also a season or two ago the club where we run the youth wanted someone from the Blues to come up and do a little talk for our presentation night but everyone at the Blues were to busy. On the other hand we asked the Scarlets and they sent Marc Jones. Makes you wonder why they are struggling for support anywhere north of A470.

Cardiff have NEVER pretended to be any kind of a region. They use Pontypridd simply because they can access their academy which along with Bridgend has historically been their best place to take their players from. At least Bridgend were smart enough to fight to be in the Ospreys region when the Celtic Warriors went títs up!
I think All of Cardiffs players are shares out randomly to clubs in the lower leagues, regardless of what division their in (not 100% sure of this).

nottins,

Late reply I know but I disagree with you from that point.

Tuilage over Hughes in the centre ok I can agree with you but not Hughes over Smith.

SubsBench wrote:I'm not overly optimistic about next season from a Scarlets point of view. We have a young team who have potential but its too early for them to make a big impact especially so far as the HC goes. Think we'll be finishing close to the play-offs or if we are lucky we might sneak in. If the squad sticks together and continues to show the development it has then, with the addition of one or two players, we could be a very good team in 2-3 years.

Feeling any better after the last few games sub?

I'd say that's about right as we've had a rocky time so far and although our youngsters have shown up well and we'll be a lot more potent with a decent halfback pairing I think the other teams will improve as well, and we are mid table so have a lot of ground to make up (and remember we were top this time last year.

I agree with subs bench and rugby dreamer

rugbydreamer wrote:I'm torn between optimism and worry for the Scarlets.

If it wasn't a world cup year, I'd be feeling very happy. We've got a good balance between experience and youth in our squad,, with players fighting for places and more imprtantly they are playing as a team.

I think we're going to struggle the first 2 months and will then always be on the back foot next season, but I think come the end of the season we'll be fighting it out for a play off spot again, which I think right now is all we can expect. I'll be happy with a top 2 welsh region placing I think.

Looking forward to seeing what other youngsters we can blood as well.

I'm torn between optimism and worry for the Scarlets.

That's called being a Scarlets fan isn't it?

So true unfortunately!

It makes winning all the sweeter.

oooo I'd forgotten about this thread.

that was quite an insightful comment from me reading back

and Glas, aye that does pretty much sum up being a Scarlet!


I shall move this to the club section now.

It's still early days in this season Dreamer, but I feel a lot better about the set up at PYS now. I even think attendances may improve.

attendances are already up comparing like for like games last season Glas. Big test will be if we can beat the crowd of 8,900 we got for Perp when we play Castres. If we manage to beat the O's on Sat, that'll be a big help towards that happening.

The Ospreys are our bogey side, especially at the Library. They will be wanting to bounce back after a disappointing loss in Glasgow. It will be tough.

Aye it will, again a LBP is what I'll be hoping for - or anything that is better then the showing we put in last year! Rumours abound though that Adam Jones AND Paul James are out. I reckon this is a load of bull Poopie though personally to try and throw the Scarlets off balance.

It's in the forwards that the game will be won and lost.