Scottish Football, What's the point?

First topic message reminder :

With the SPL unable to attract such "superstars" or rather deadbeats as Neil Danns and it looking increasingly unlikely that any Scottish team will ever qualify again for the first round proper of the Champions League, not to mention the deplorable skill levels and poor entertainment returns is there any point in this tinpot and frankly laughable league continuing?

Discuss.

super_realist wrote:Yes, they are still running, but do we really want our league to fall to such part time depths.

You must be the most pessimistic person I've ever come across

I just think it's strange that people accept the diminishing returns that they are getting from the SPL, how long before a team goes to the wall or has to go part time?

I understand that people will always follow their team, but it would be arrogant to expect that things will continue as they are in perpetuity, a few years ago people flocked to see The Hun's and The Tic, now there are plenty seats to be had. Interest is certainly waning.
With both unlikely to get far in Europe this year, perhaps even unlikely to qualify there's bound to be a knock on effect if that trend continues over the next decade for the rest of the league.

hear hear Leak, competition at it lowest level is still competition. You keep talking about the poor way that our teams move the ball and how our play lacks skill but look at Arsenal. When they get the ball moving its a sight that needs to be seen with great fluid passing that can't be rivalled, at least in the PL. But when it comes to putting the ball in the net under pressure their total bottle merchants. And going back to what you were saying about the OF poaching players from SPL sides, just today your own Utd turned down a 1m+ offer on Goodie. If you call 1m poaching then you clearly have a distorted view on how the pound works, or are stinking rich. Teams always have the ability to say no, but the money provided by selling on to the OF gives smaller teams a massive chance to improve their own squad. So people saying that the OF steal all the funding need to realise that as poachers we give most of that money back to the other clubs

Gaelic-Warrior wrote: ...but what I don't get is a certain section of Scottish fans who pop-up every now and then and talk about it as the greatest thing since sliced bread...

That is myth. Have yet to hear anyone saying that these days. Where did you hear these 'Scottish fans' popping up and saying that?

Gaelic-Warrior wrote:
We don't have a great league, never did have imo, and we never will.

Yes we did. The Scottish League in the 60's was a terrific league with a lot of good players, many great and some fine football being played. The champions usually went on to do well in the European Cup. Celtic 2 finals, a semi along with Rangers and Dundee.

Tip, 1 million would be asset stripping rather than helping them out. Teams are aware that United like most other clubs have debts, of course they will offer a derisory offer to begin with in the hope they'll take it to help their situation. He's worth far more than a million and it's a damn cheek if any team offers such a pittance for a player like him. It would be incredibly unambitious if he did move to another SPL club though.

David Goodwillie isn't worth 2million especially after all his off field shenanigans.

Scottish football is getting a bad name recently. Craig Thomson the pedo, David Goodwillie the naughty person and Garry O'Connor the junkie.

He mightn't be worth 2 million but he's certainly worth more than a million even if he is a minky scumbag.

tbh I wouldn't pay 2m for any player in Scotland at the moment. Which is indirectly supporting your opening question I suppose. Plus last time rangers spent 2m on a player it was a little bit dissapointing to say the least

JDandfries wrote:Football as a whole, probably starting with the EPL is probably gonna die.

Players cannot continue to command such high wages, and teh clubs cannot rely purely on TV money.

At present most clubs, apart from the likes of Man U, Citeh and Arsenal, couldn't care less if no one came to watch, such is the huge amount of TV money they receive.

On Chairman said a few years ago, that it was irrelevant how many fans atteneded due to teh vast riches offered by SKY TV - he didnt reduce teh gate prices though!

Its just waiting to go pop, and it will be the EPL that
dies first!

Interesting JD.
I know Arsenal have matchday income in excess of £1m, which equates to between £25m-£30m a year, a figure that has to be crucial to the financial security of a football club (not that many other clubs prioritise financial security of course but that's a different argument).

I share the view football (EPL) is heading for a fall but not to the extent that it wipes out a number of clubs or that the game is soon watched by a fraction of the current attendance/TV numbers.

As for SPL, of course it will survive and continue in its current format, if Dunfermline can avoid relegation next season they'll celebrate just as Wolves did in the EPL, football is not all about building the best team around and monopolising the trophies usually through carefree spending, it's about being part of a community and a community that lasts forever. There's a level of passion in the lower English leagues that probably isn't fully appreciated and I have no doubts it's the same North of the border.
Not every football club can accomodate 60-70k fans and spend £35m on squad players, I can't help thinking this thread may have had a little more credibility had the OP not been a supporter of one of the worlds most successful clubs in history

Grizzly wrote:
As for SPL, of course it will survive and continue in its current format, if Dunfermline can avoid relegation next season they'll celebrate just as Wolves did in the EPL, football is not all about building the best team around and monopolising the trophies usually through carefree spending, it's about being part of a community and a community that lasts forever. There's a level of passion in the lower English leagues that probably isn't fully appreciated and I have no doubts it's the same North of the border.
Not every football club can accomodate 60-70k fans and spend £35m on squad players, I can't help thinking this thread may have had a little more credibility had the OP not been a supporter of one of the worlds most successful clubs in history

Summed up perfectly mate

Think he meant Dundee Utd mate good points though

For heavens sake, I'm not suggesting every club be a huge commercial success with millions of fans and superstar players, however I do believe that the SPL is routinely failing and getting worse as a product as the standard of football played within it is getting gradually poorer by the year (just look at the players in it now, very few players of noteable class), resulting in the credibility of Scottish teams on a European stage to be correspondingly diminished.

What I'm asking is A) Why nobody seems to be bothered by this B) Why people seem to put up with it and continue paying their money as if nothing has changed without question and C) Why they think the SPL will survive in it's current state despite the financial implications of a less attractive and lucrative product diminishing in value by the year the more and more it loses it's European standing.

And yes, I was referring to Dundee Utd, not Man Utd.

What I don't understand is that you support Dundee United, and from what I have seen in the past you play pretty dam good football. You are one of the only clubs that when you face the OF you are always in with a chance of beating them.

This is what gripes me, Scottish fans expect so much more from their clubs than they can actually produce. It's these fans that are destroying their clubs. These are ones that don't turn up to matches because what they are watching isn't of the standard that they supposedly expect their club to play. Our league has no money, and therefore isn't going to be going anywhere fast. If fans start to turn away do you really think they are going to get better? Our clubs need to us to continually turn out week in for their to be any possibility of us getting out this hole.

GeeMonkee wrote:

Gaelic-Warrior wrote: ...but what I don't get is a certain section of Scottish fans who pop-up every now and then and talk about it as the greatest thing since sliced bread...

That is myth. Have yet to hear anyone saying that these days. Where did you hear these 'Scottish fans' popping up and saying that?

Gaelic-Warrior wrote:
We don't have a great league, never did have imo, and we never will.

Yes we did. The Scottish League in the 60's was a terrific league with a lot of good players, many great and some fine football being played. The champions usually went on to do well in the European Cup. Celtic 2 finals, a semi along with Rangers and Dundee.

Perhaps I should've put it another way, I don't particularly like the section of fans that expect Scottish football to be among the world's elite and start moaning as if they had the ability to be there in the first place when their club or the national side don't live up to their obviously unrealistic expectations. And before you say that's another myth then you should listen to some of the fans I've spoken to in the past.

Fair enough on the second point, it was far better in the 60's with some European success, but, they were hardly going to compete consistently with what was then Europe'e elite. It was a golden era of homegrown Scottish talent that had some decent success like beating England at wembley in 67. But we weren't winning the European cup every few years or in contention for winning the world cup with the national side.

Finnish football, Swedish football, Icelandic football, Estonian football, Norwegian football, Peruvian football, Ecuadorian football, Ivorian football, Egyptian football, Bulgarian football, Canadian football, North and South Pole football..what's the point?

Armageddon will come before the collapse of Scottish football.

JDandfries wrote:It is no different to any other league,

The quality isnt great, but like the leagues in GErmany, England, Spain, Italy etc, there are basically only two teams who are going to win the league.

So the Premier League, despite Sky dressing it up as the best league in the world, isn't any better, Stoke are never going to win the league, neither are 75% of the whole division, which is pretty much how it is in Scotland

Good point, a lot of people say that there is no point because it's always a two horse race between the old firm, but like you say it's the same everywhere.

'And yes, I was referring to Dundee Utd, not Man Utd.'

My apologies - the thread subject is at least something you have a degree of knowledge in.

Celtic just got beaten by the Central Coast Mariners 1-0 in some 'friendly' match here in Sydney last night before about 17,000 spectators.

Celtic - CC Mariners

Apparently 9 men and 2 women also got arrested after jumping the fence at ANZ...27 people were ejected for being intoxicated and some 47 folks were refused entry because of drunkeness.

Green Man escorted off

Scottish football is Alive & Well.

Linebreaker wrote:Celtic just got beaten by the Central Coast Mariners 1-0 in some 'freindly' match here in Sydney last night before about 17,000 spectators.

Celtic - CC Mariners

Apparently 9 men and 2 women also got arrested after jumping the fence at ANZ...27 people were ejected for being intoxicated and some 47 folks were refused entry because of drunkeness.

Green Man escorted off

Scottish football is Alive & Well.

Embarrassing, the usual small minority of idiots that ruin our game.

Yes Steve, we're pretty isolated (and insulated) from that extreme football fan culture - in fact, we don't really have any football rivalries in the true sense. Everybody knows that there are fairly large $ penalties that apply if you run on the field.

The guy in the green suit must be a temporary visitor from the looks of things, lol. Classic.

I think Everton may be here too...but would you believe the media coverage is pretty poor. Must be a 4th team too somewhere. Maybe there'll be more about it in the papers tomorrow...or later today. Sheesh, 4am!

There's been relatively no coverage of it over here either mate. I knew they were going over to Australia but I never realised it was for a tournament.

There are quite a few rivalries over here mate, but like I said earlier there are a small number of fans at each club that enjoy giving Scottish football a bad name.

Any idea if the Celtic manager behaved himself?

AberdeenSteve wrote:There's been relatively no coverage of it over here either mate. I knew they were going over to Australia but I never realised it was for a tournament.

There are quite a few rivalries over here mate, but like I said earlier there are a small number of fans at each club that enjoy giving Scottish football a bad name.

Any idea if the Celtic manager behaved himself?

No 'News' is good news I suppose...

(everyone here is in State of Origin / S15 mode - so maybe he's passed under the radar!)

Its a conspiracy!!

AberdeenSteve wrote:There's been relatively no coverage of it over here either mate. I knew they were going over to Australia but I never realised it was for a tournament.

There are quite a few rivalries over here mate, but like I said earlier there are a small number of fans at each club that enjoy giving Scottish football a bad name.

Any idea if the Celtic manager behaved himself?

He was probably one of those arrested

Still no news on him - maybe you're right!

super_realist wrote:With the SPL unable to attract such "superstars" or rather deadbeats as Neil Danns and it looking increasingly unlikely that any Scottish team will ever qualify again for the first round proper of the Champions League, not to mention the deplorable skill levels and poor entertainment returns is there any point in this tinpot and frankly laughable league continuing?Discuss.

You clearly don't know very much about Champions League qualification. The winners of the SPL will be seeded in the 2nd qualifying stage and in the champions pot for the 3rd. This is the same way Unirea Urzicena and Bate Borisiov qualified.

I know perfectly well how it works, I just don't think Rangers (or Celtic) for that matter are good enough to qualify, even against teams ranked lower. Lets not forget what unirea did to Rangers at home. Pumped 4-1.

You still slavering on, in the hope folk agree with you?

super_realist wrote:I know perfectly well how it works, I just don't think Rangers (or Celtic) for that matter are good enough to qualify, even against teams ranked lower. Lets not forget what unirea did to Rangers at home. Pumped 4-1.

Rangers were a small squad competing in the league the Champions League for just for financial gain. The Champions pot means their is a good chance that more often than not their will be a Scottish team in the Champions League.

The good thing about when a Scottish team is knocked out of the Champions League is that we no longer have to endure the insufferable Scottish coverage.

Archie "Is he going to let fly" McPherson is intolerable.

Honestly, why watch it if you hate it so much?

SPL - The only senior league in the world in which teams play each other 4 times.
SPL - The only senior league in the world that's been dominated by the same 2 teams for the past 25 years
SPL - The only senior league in the world which has a 'split'.
SPL - The only senior league in the world in which the team finishing 6th can finish with fewer points than a team ( or possibly 'teams' ) that finish below them.
SPL - The only senior league in the world in which the team that finishes 2nd from bottom guarantees themselves safety
SPL - The senior league that almost certainly has more glory-hunting 'supporters' than anywhere else.
SPL - A national embarrassment.

If I was Craig Levein I would insist on picking NO players who played for SPL teams.

Playing in such an awful league, at such an atrocious standard can be no good at all for the national team.

This never gets old

If it so bad, stop watching. Simple as. We all know the league is in decline but it is people like yourselves that only bring it down further.

Super, if you have a problem with the standard of the SPL then why do so many guys from the SPL continue to go on to bigger and better things at other leagues in England? If the standard was so bad then Levein should just not pick any player who has ever played in the SPL. Get a grip man.

AberdeenSteve wrote:This never gets old

If it so bad, stop watching. Simple as. We all know the league is in decline but it is people like yourselves that only bring it down further.

Super, if you have a problem with the standard of the SPL then why do so many guys from the SPL continue to go on to bigger and better things at other leagues in England? If the standard was so bad then Levein should just not pick any player who has ever played in the SPL. Get a grip man.

Those that move are too good for the SPL, however I can barely think of anyone (Arteta, Larsson, Duncan Ferguson,Van Bronkhurst perhaps) who went on to real success although they were all a very long time ago. Certainly those who are Scottish (Barry Ferguson, Kenny Miller etc) have rarely set the heather alight.)

Anyway, that isn't the point I'm making and them coming from the SPL to the EPL isn't the issue. There are some decent players in the SPL, (Brown, Naismith, Forrest) but I just can't see the point in picking them for Scotland as there are other players like Jordan Rhodes, MacKail Smith, Charlie Adam etc who are playing at a higher standard and who are playing truly competitive football and more skilled opposition.
Surely they are better placed to play against better quality opposition on an international level? Aren't those type of players more likely to succeed when the level of International football is more closely related to the better leagues of the EPL and Championship than the SPL?

It's not an anti SPL thing, it just strikes me as an idea to pick a more competitive and successful Scottish International team of you exclude the poor quality and lack of competitive football that takes place in the SPL and pick from better leagues.

The SPL is no-where near as bad as you like to think it is, we've got plenty of problems but so do other countries, we can't help the fact our game is skint but teams like St Johnstone, St Mirren and Motherwell are ano inspiration to other clubs in what can be achieved on a shoe string, even Celtic who sold Aiden McGeady for £10m bought Hooper, Stokes, Izaguirre, Commons, Ledley and Kayal for less than half of the fee McGeady brought in

Rangers in 1986 brought great change to the face of Scottish Football and along with the Taylor report done some serious damage to the face of Scottish Football as teams had to spend money they didn't have to firstly keep up with Rangers and secondly seat their stadiums at great expense

The Scottish League has took big hits over the lasr few years but it's far from dead, the biggest problem isn't the lack of quality, you often see our players heading to the Championship and excelling where they perhaps didn't quite do it up here or you see guys from the Premiership or Championship come up here and struggle, so no, the quality isn't the problem, the problem is the lack of competitive edge that our league has, I've no problem with the 4 games a season structure but the SPL has to be more open to one off Relegation and European play off games at neutral venues

To say Craig Levien should cap Celtic and Rangers playerss though is beyond moronic, like them or not these guys have a winning mentality that players who player for other clubs simply don't have, if teams draw most are happy with it but the only time a draw is deemed acceptable for an Old Firm player is ano away day in Europe or ano away Old Firm tie, Scotland simply can't afford to ignore that kind of mentality, the only other player in the Scotland squad you can say has that drive and mentality is Darren Fletcher who has the same need to win beliefs installed into him at Old Trafford

Craig Gordon, Christophe Berra and Gary Caldwell aren't better players now because they play in the EPL, Steven Fletcher is, David Goodwillie would have been far more use to Scotland playing week in week out scoring goals for Rangers than pottering about at Blackburn Rovers

You're rants are completely over the top but expected from a fan who has just given up on his team, the beauty about the SPL is that it wouldn't cost a fortune for a team to genuinely compete, all you need is a good manager, a decent fan base and a chairman that's willing to invest a couple of million over a year or two

Hibs had a tremendous chance, if they invested in contracts for the players they actually had and gave Tony Mowbray £1m to re-invest in the team they could easily have challenged for the title, they where getting 17,000+ at home games, they where not only competing but beating the old Firm and where highly rated by rival fans and the media, Hibs cashed in though, they decided a new stand was more important than the on field contribution, you have to speculate to accumulate though and if they used the money on the team the potential rewards could have paid for the new stand on it's own

The Hearts side in 97/98 had a real chance, they had a triffic team, Adam, McCann, Cameron, Naysmith, Weir and still had John Robertson, they where two or three players short of having a really good side that could easily have compete in Scotland for the title but they choose to cash in during a time SKY where pumping money into clubs up here

We also need to start doing Football specials so fans can get the trains for a cheap fee, prices are also way out of sync, those are things that are wrong with the SPL

You seem like the kinda guy who has an English team

Also just to add to the points that gaffer has made - Celtic and Rangers players have experience of European ties. They have the experience of travelling to foreign countries and the hostile atmospheres that you can encounter.

Fair enough, neither have a great record in Europe, but that experience still counts when you jump to the international stage. So to stop picking players just because they come from a certain league would be laughable.

Do you honestly think that would help the standard of Scottish players? Youngsters would look at the SPL and say "If I play there, I will never get picked for my national team - I'm going down South". They go to a team in England and perhaps don't get as much game time as they would at the likes of St Mirren, Aberdeen, Hibs etc. That hurts their progression and the national team suffers further as a result.

[quote="the-gaffer"]

Craig Gordon, Christophe Berra and Gary Caldwell aren't better players now because they play in the EPL, Steven Fletcher is, David Goodwillie would have been far more use to Scotland playing week in week out scoring goals for Rangers than pottering about at Blackburn Rovers


Errrrr, yes he would have bee far more use to Scotland, but in hindsight not really. He would be walking goals in week in week out in the SPL against the teams with part-bit players in probably the worst league in Europe if not the World. At Blackburn he does not score because he is either not good enough to get ahead of proven goalscorer Yakubu, he is injured or because the EPL is so much harder then playing pub teams on a Sunday up in Inverness.

But when Scotland come up against Brazil or someone of that class, you would want a striker who has played week in week out against proven class opposition. If Goodwillie was up north then he wouldnt be doing that, whether he scores 10 million a season or not.

Having him score 10 goals a season at Blackburn is more of an achievment then scoring 500 goals a game for Rangers against a team like St Mirren or Kilmarnock.

I looked at the league table the other the day and the difference in class is beyond me. The Championship and probably league one teams could keep up in that league!

Celtic Warrior wrote:Also just to add to the points that gaffer has made - Celtic and Rangers players have experience of European ties. They have the experience of travelling to foreign countries and the hostile atmospheres that you can encounter.

Fair enough, neither have a great record in Europe, but that experience still counts when you jump to the international stage. So to stop picking players just because they come from a certain league would be laughable.

Do you honestly think that would help the standard of Scottish players? Youngsters would look at the SPL and say "If I play there, I will never get picked for my national team - I'm going down South". They go to a team in England and perhaps don't get as much game time as they would at the likes of St Mirren, Aberdeen, Hibs etc. That hurts their progression and the national team suffers further as a result.

They go down south to try and progress just like any other footballer would! It CAN hurt their progression dont get me wrong, but its what the footballers want to do! Why wouldnt they want to prove themselves against in the best league in the world (or one of)? If, and its a big IF, they can go down south and succeed and make a statement, they get picked and become a better player for it, ala Darren Fletcher, Kenny Miller, Steven Fletcher.

Why would you want them stuck at joke teams such as St Mirren playing week in week out against other joke teams apart from Rangers and Celtic? Yes they would get good game time, but with regards to progression as a player, no chance.

Have you even watched any of the recent matches in Scotland? You mentioned looking at the league table the other day...that is stats. It doesn't tell you anything about the quality on offer. Teams can play good football and still lose.

St Mirren are playing free flowing, passing football right now. They beat Rangers just a few days ago. Are you telling me that playing in these games doesn't help develop players?

Your exagerations in your response to Gaffer show your obvious disdain for Scottish Football. 500 goals a game. Even as a tongue in cheek comment, that proves your opinion of the Scottish game will NEVER be changed.

The point I was making was more regarding the National Team cap that Super_Realist suggested. Undoubtedly, playing against better opposition will improve a player, so I have no qualms about players going down South to prove their talent. What I would have a problem with is players going down South purely based on the fact that playing IN Scotland means they can't play FOR Scotland. If you take away the opportunity for players to represent their national side just because of the league they play in then you will, without question, damage that league.

Youngsters need game time and experience to develop in to good/great players. They will have more opportunity to do so if they stick to SPL sides for their earlier years.

I agree with your opinion to an extent. But my view still stands. I watched on BBC Iplayer just yesterday. I saw the St Mirren game and when they managed to play some free flowing football i was actually, generally shocked. I couldnt believe my eyes and i am by no means exagerating. However, i really cant see it developing a player THAT much by playing in a couple of games against Rangers and Celtic. Players are better off playing the same level opposition as Rangers and Celtic in the EPL or Championship WEEK IN WEEK OUT. Rangers and Celtic are probably the equivalent in terms of quality as Aston Villa/Liverpool/Everton. There are a number of better teams in the EPL. Playing week in week out for a mediocre team down south is better than playing for a really poor team up north against other poor teams, especially when the only time to test yourself is only a few times a year against only 2 teams in the whole league.

I think the decent Scottish players that come through the ranks should be shipped out to better leagues. S.Fletcher at Wolves (First Team), Fletcher to Man Utd (Was First Team for a while), Goodwillie to Blackburn, Robson to Middlesbrough. Even Kenny Miller and Ferguson at Birmingham etc etc. I think they would develop more going on LOAN to mediocre teams in a much better league. Guaranteed first team football if they pick the right team, and if its in the Championship or EPL then it HAS to be better then playing footy first team on a regular basis up in the SPL.

It is ridiculous to instantly think that people will improve more going down south than staying in the SPL. Just look at the likes of David Goodwillie & Chris MacGuire. They've both gone down south and have done absolutely nothing since doing so. They are both players that would have both been much more better off staying in Scotland for another couple of years, showing just how good they were so that when they eventually moved they would be walking straight into a championship or lower PL side.

Aberdeen,

Putting my prejudices and your liking of the SPL aside, can playing within the SPL really help the national team?

Would David Goodwillie have improved by signing for Rangers? No, of course he wouldn't. Sideways move at best.

Celtic Warrior, Old Firm players have experience of getting humped in Europe. That's it.

I can't see any reason why a player in the SPL who is rated highly enough shouldn't join a Championship side. It can't do them anymore harm than staying on an Old Firm bench. Which is what would have happened to Goodwillie, and will happen to Scott Allen if he's stupid enough to go to Castle Grayskull.

Playing in a league which is A) More competitive than the SPL and B) Of a higher skill level and against better opposition on a weekly level cannot do anything but good for the National team.


Ironically though, perhaps things are beginning to level out. With both halfs of the Old FIrm diminishing in quality and unable to sign players of true quality the league might actually be becoming more competitive, even if neither half of the Old Firm will ever play in the Champions League again, which looks unlikely.
If only they wouldn't try and cherry pick the decent players left in the league and then turn round imediately after and say they want to join the EPL becuase the SPL isn't competitive enough then things might improve.

Realist, have you been living in a dark hole the last couple of years?

How on earth can David Goodwillie improve as a player if he is at Blackburn and sitting on the bench? The simple answer, he can't. Yes, the EPL is a more competitive league but you are going to improve if you are watching it from the bench and getting a rare 20 minutes here and there.

Goodwillie would have been far more better off moving to Rangers - where he would have played week in and week out - or stayed at Dundee United. A player can only improve unless he gets to play 90 minutes or so each week. He'll just become lazy and be happy to pick up his 10k plus a week wage packet like so many other professional footballers today do.

The SPL may have two teams that run away with the league each season and on a few occasions a season there are dire 0-0 games but at the same there are teams trying to put on exciting football. Just look at St Mirren, Motherwell and St Johnstone. They are all shoe string budgets but have more than coped with what the OF have thrown at them. They may never challenge for the league but they make an interesting watch for the battle to 3rd.

It seems that you'll never agree as your view on the SPL is that it is far gone saving but if you actually watch a game of football rather than just looking at the European games then you might see differently.

Steve, He's probably playing better quality football playing in the reserves at Blackburn. What makes you think he'd be in the Rangers team anyway behind Jelavic and Naismith? He might well be no better off than he is at Blackburn.

My view wasn't in this case aimed specifically at bashing the SPL directly, I was merely questioning whether the national team might be improved by not picking people who played in the SPL and picking those from the EPL and Championship.

[quote="d260005p"]

the-gaffer wrote:

Craig Gordon, Christophe Berra and Gary Caldwell aren't better players now because they play in the EPL, Steven Fletcher is, David Goodwillie would have been far more use to Scotland playing week in week out scoring goals for Rangers than pottering about at Blackburn Rovers


Errrrr, yes he would have bee far more use to Scotland, but in hindsight not really. He would be walking goals in week in week out in the SPL against the teams with part-bit players in probably the worst league in Europe if not the World. At Blackburn he does not score because he is either not good enough to get ahead of proven goalscorer Yakubu, he is injured or because the EPL is so much harder then playing pub teams on a Sunday up in Inverness.

But when Scotland come up against Brazil or someone of that class, you would want a striker who has played week in week out against proven class opposition. If Goodwillie was up north then he wouldnt be doing that, whether he scores 10 million a season or not.

Having him score 10 goals a season at Blackburn is more of an achievment then scoring 500 goals a game for Rangers against a team like St Mirren or Kilmarnock.

I looked at the league table the other the day and the difference in class is beyond me. The Championship and probably league one teams could keep up in that league!

Over the top hyperbole nonsense, lets worry about Scotland strikers being good enough to play Brazil if that time ever comes again, first and foremost though the goal is to get to that stage

I don't even know why I bother replying to such a bitter guy, 'realist' is the exact opposite from what you are, I get annoyed with no nothing hyperbole specialists like you who probably don't go to football yet have ano opinion on all that's wrong with it

super_realist wrote:Aberdeen,

Putting my prejudices and your liking of the SPL aside, can playing within the SPL really help the national team?

Would David Goodwillie have improved by signing for Rangers? No, of course he wouldn't. Sideways move at best.

Celtic Warrior, Old Firm players have experience of getting humped in Europe. That's it.

I can't see any reason why a player in the SPL who is rated highly enough shouldn't join a Championship side. It can't do them anymore harm than staying on an Old Firm bench. Which is what would have happened to Goodwillie, and will happen to Scott Allen if he's stupid enough to go to Castle Grayskull.

Playing in a league which is A) More competitive than the SPL and B) Of a higher skill level and against better opposition on a weekly level cannot do anything but good for the National team.


Ironically though, perhaps things are beginning to level out. With both halfs of the Old FIrm diminishing in quality and unable to sign players of true quality the league might actually be becoming more competitive, even if neither half of the Old Firm will ever play in the Champions League again, which looks unlikely.
If only they wouldn't try and cherry pick the decent players left in the league and then turn round imediately after and say they want to join the EPL becuase the SPL isn't competitive enough then things might improve.

The fact you choose to ignore my points clearly directed at you show you're nothing but a WUM with the Hugh Keevans syndrome and have no serious answer to my points, glad you ignored it though as I can now put you on the blocked list along with the rest of the WUM's

(No-one quote this guy if you can help it gents, I can't be bothered seeing anymore of his nonsense)

Gaffer, the Scottish boards on 606v2 are dead without a bit of gentle ribbing. (with the exception of this thread which I started to provoke a bit of movement there have only been 8 posts since December the 4th, almost as dead as the interest in the SPL)

At the very least making sensationalist comments and suggestions does at least get the board moving a bit.

I asked a question as to whether the national team would be better by not picking players who play in the SPL.

I think that's a reasonable question to ask, you don't think it's a good idea, fair enough. I think it would be worth a try.
It might to an idea to provide other ideas which might help the national team instead of just backing the league all the time though.

The squad picked to face Cyprus...

Pos. Player Club
GK Matt Gilks Blackpool
GK Allan McGregor Rangers
GK Craig Samson St. Mirren

DF Phil Bardsley Sunderland
DF Christophe Berra Wolverhampton Wanderers
DF Gary Caldwell Wigan Athletic
DF Stephen Crainey Blackpool
DF Grant Hanley Blackburn Rovers
DF Gary MacKenzie Milton Keynes Dons
DF Steven Whittaker Rangers

MF Craig Conway Cardiff City
MF Don Cowie Cardiff City
MF Darren Fletcher Manchester United
MF James McArthur Wigan Athletic
MF James Morrison West Bromwich Albion
MF Barry Robson Middlesbrough
MF Robert Snodgrass Leeds United
MF Ryan Stevenson Heart of Midlothian

FW David Goodwillie Blackburn Rovers
FW Craig Mackail-Smith Brighton & Hove Albion
FW Jamie Mackie Queens Park Rangers
FW Kenny Miller Cardiff City
FW Jordan Rhodes Huddersfield Town

DAMN THAT SPL BIAS!