Wlad Was There For The Taking - Haye Gave Too Much Respect

Well I'll hear a lot about what a great fighter Wlad is and how his long arms are an impenetrable defence but to be honest I don't believe it.

Tyson would have chopped Wlad down in a couple of rounds. Wlad may be trained by Manny Stewart but he ain't no Lennox Lewis.

I thought it was a poor display from both men particularly Haye who wasn't able to see that Wlad really did not like being hit. Haye will complain he couldn't get past Wlads long left arm but are we seriously happy to think that Haye's only effective punch was going to be a looping overhand right thrown from 8 feet away. Where was the variety of punches and lateral movement we heard so much about.

As for Wlad he is a big guy, hard to hit, that will frustrate a lot of fighters but he is fragile and doesn't like it when it is put up to him. If Haye had followed up his odd bit of good work he could have taken Wlad out of there. I spent the whole fight waiting for Booth to give the order for Haye to throw caution to the wind but it never came. I suppose a broken toe is a better excuse than wearing the wrong socks but really it falls in the same bracket i.e weak as pee excuses.

There will be a consensus that Wlad did a great job in handling Haye but I don't buy it. I have never felt so strongly that Wlad is a dominant champion in a very very very poor era of HW boxing. Wlad would be murdered by the contender of the 80's and 90's in my view. He would only serve as cannon fodder to the champions of those decades.

A younger Evander Holyfield, hell even an older Evander, would have shown how a 6' 2 cruiser weight should take Wlad down, right down to Chinatown.


My residing feeling after watching the fight: Hyped up garbage.

He may well have been beaten by past champions but that isn't really the point here is it? The point is Haye talked and talked and talked, he was going to do this, he was going to do that. Klitschko is a robot with no chin. Klitschko took one or two big right hands. He was simply better all round and would have won whatever Haye tried in my view.

I think you're being far, far, far too harsh on Wladimir there, Strongback. Tyson wasn't his opponent. Nor was Holyfield. Haye was, and Klitschko absolutely shut him out.

Personally, I don't think his performance can be described as 'poor' at all, even though his fans will rue the fact that he didn't let his hands go more towards the latter stages. Working behind the jab and negating Haye's right hand may not be the flashiest tactics, but it was exactly what was required to win the fight.

I agree that many other Heavyweights who have gone before (the great ones) would have put the gun-shy and tentative version of Haye we saw tonight away inside the distance. But ultimately, Wladimir handled him handsomely; and this was, supposedly, the toughest challenge out there for him and, given that Haye held a portion of the title, certainly the most significant one.

Haye was all mouth and no trousers.

Wladimir schooled him good and proper.

Haye can go join Fraudley now

When Haye landed Wlad backed off fairly quickly and the the couple of occasions Haye landed a power punch such as the 3rd and 12th Wlad was trying to hold on.

A strong combination puncher who has the chin to mix it would beat Wlad. There just aren't any decent fighters around. Haye put in a rudey poo performance and was still able to take Wlad 12 rounds. Haye blew it.

I've never been more convinced that Vitali would murder his little brother.

Bottom line for me is that I watched a dross fight that did nothing to honour the memory of the great HW champions.

Chris, now that Haye has been disposed of there will be talk of Wlad's legacy and how great he is. I am comparng that legacy to the fighters of previous decades which I am sure a lot of people will be doing.

I was honestly disappoint by Wlad. Why didn't he take that version of Haye and punch him around the ring.

Wlad is not a natural fighter. He is too much of a thinking man. A good fighter would have waited for Wlad to start thinking and at that point would have unleashed the fury.

Haye will spend the rest of his day kicking himself that he did not get into trading distance. Wlad looked good blocking Hayes over hand right because he knew that was the only punch, other than a jab, that Haye threw all night.

Strongback, how do the grapes taste?

I have been a Hayes detractors for a long time. I have recorded quite a few articles on my dislike of Haye/Booth and have argued over this with Ben Dirs and Steve Bunce.

I wanted Wlad to do a number on Haye. Both fighters were just too conservative. A skilled fighter with an up and at him style would give Wlad nightmares, it's just there aren't any half decent HW's around.

Just to add SugarRay, Dave667 is the man to talk to on the sour grapes issue.

When you talk as much as Haye and when it comes to walking you can only exaggerrate falling over football style and hunt for excuses that makes you out to be a rather unsavoury individual.

My stream cut at the last minute but from what I could hear via radio Haye was outclassed and as bitterly disappointed by the result as I am I can find no reasonable way of defending him.

Wlad was not there for the taking as his jab again proved to be immense. He also did not collapse when he was hit like people said he would..

For a large man he is very quick with his punches and his movement. Haye could not get close enough and had to lunge at him and as a result could not really put much power in...

The broken toe is a load of Love sacks, and a bit of a PA disaster if you ask me... Sure it did not help, but your telling me he can take some bombs from this guy but would not throw a big right because his toe hurt? Did not hear him complain about it in the corner and it did not stop him from being cocky leading up to the fight..

WK out boxed him and Haye was never going to beat him from the first round you could see this.

Strongback wrote:

Wlad is not a natural fighter. He is too much of a thinking man. A good fighter would have waited for Wlad to start thinking and at that point would have unleashed the fury.

People can have their views on him but the bottom line is he has fought the best around and beaten them easily. simple as that.

There for I think its safe to say that he is doing something right and is a very good boxer.

Strongback wrote:When Haye landed Wlad backed off fairly quickly and the the couple of occasions Haye landed a power punch such as the 3rd and 12th Wlad was trying to hold on.

But any boxer facing a quick puncher would and should do the same..

on both occasions he came back and landed some bombs on Haye as well so he cant of been that badly hurt.

You dont open up and trade with a guy who is lighting fast when he has just thumped you, you hold him and wait till the throbbing stops and get your jab working again.. in the 12th I think he was shook from one but it was a hard punch and he still came back at Haye... Every time Wlad opened up at Haye he just fell over and tried to make out Wlad was pushing him down...

Think your being a bit harsh on Wlad Stronback but I share long term dislike for Haye. I thought Haye would make a better show of it than that though I didn't expect him to win. I agree that Wlad isn't a natural fighter and faced with a guy he couldn't bully quite so easily then he'd be in trouble.
For me, Haye was too light tonight and not strong enough. He was also too catious but it's perfectly understandable to be nervous of a guy with Wlad's skills and size/strength advantage.
In a sense it's to Wlad's credit though that he's not a natural fighter and has done so well. It takes no less courage for him to get in the ring and keep winning.
I thought he dealt with the pressure brilliantly well (and there was a tonne of it) as his whole legacy was on the line tonight. Thought Haye looked nervous going into the ring and he took a while to settle down.
For me it was a decent fight (not great) and Wlad's went up in my estimation a bit. I do think it is probably deceptive how hard he is to deal with. I'm also glad that Haye has been put in his place after some awful behaviour. At least he finally got in ring though.

Wlad was pushing him to be fair but Haye's only response of milking it like a pathetic footballer showed how little response he had to the better man.

I tipped Haye to win and on this performance Wlad should have knocked him out. I don't think David gave Wlad too much respect but more of a case that Haye throws very few punches a round anyway.

Wlad won thr fight no arguments and the poor excuse about the toe angered me!

If it is not big enough of an issue tom pull out then it is not big enough of an excuse to cost you the fight!.

The better man won on the night even if I don't think he is the best out there.

Strongback wrote:Just to add SugarRay, Dave667 is the man to talk to on the sour grapes issue.

Easy now Strongy, you wanted Wlad to win and yet you STILL aren't happy with the result.

Me? I thought Haye was very disappointing. Like many others I was waiting for him to commit himself more. He'd taken a couple of shots from Wlad in the early rounds and didn't seem overly troubled by the power issue. I thought he'd be a bit more pro-active after that but it wasn't to be. Both fighters left with a slight mark under each eye which suggests there wasn't a great deal of leather being thrown by either man.

Bit of a wash out both figuratively and literally but I had a nice evening with my wife so I can't complain.

Think this fight really marks the death of HW boxing though. Let's face it, we were hoping and praying for new life to be breathed into the division but sadly it looks like it's going to be more of the same for the next couple of years. Can't see me getting excited about the possibility of a Klitschko/Fury/Chisora/McDermott bout

I think that Chisora is a good prospect if he got himself into a bit better shape

Morning lads. I don't venture on to these boards too often, my knowledge of boxing is a bit on the thin side.

However, last night was a total waste of money. Sure, I got 12 rounds for my money but I'd rather not pay £20 to watch Haye stand there while Wlad jabs him.

As the OP said, Haye had no variety and he didn't ever really look like he wanted to take Wlad on.

BS every time Haye even thought about throwing Wlad was either gone or hit him with the jab, Haye was schooled.

Tyson would be too quick, 46 yr old Foreman lands once all over!!, Lewis easy night, Holy's triple jab gives him nightmares...

But haye was worried he might get his looks changed..

no rematch necessary.....119-109 for me..

Can't agree with the OP. Wlad was just too good for Haye.

I didn't see Haye's fight with Valuev, but I can only guess that being a lot less mobile, Haye's tactic of jumping and swinging was probably more effective. He caught Klitschko a couple of times that way and landed a coupe of good conventional punches, but the stats say Wlad landed 3 times as many.

I also wasn't impressed with the way Haye kept falling over all the time. Surprised the ref didn't deduct a point from him for that. Can only think his toe must've been bothering him, because Wlad didn't look to be pushing him that much.

After all the hype it was a big anticlimax when David spent most of the fight dancing around, waiting for an opening that never came. The only times he really went for it were after Wlad had caught him.

About the only good thing you can say about Haye after that is that at least he proved he can take a punch and came back at Wlad (if only in brief bursts) for the full 12 rounds.

I don't think Haye did himself justice, but even fully fit I'm not sure he's got the technique or shots to beat Wladimir. The only thing "robotic" about him is his relentless pressure and solid defence. He may not move around the ring quickly, but his hand speed looked as good as Haye's.

Truss, I reckon Bruno would have been a big problem for Wlad.

A few stiff lefts from Big Frank...........

Agree, I would have backed Bruno to get Vlad out of there.

LivinginItaly wrote:Agree, I would have backed Bruno to get Vlad out of there.

Maybe, if you gave him a shotgun.......

I'm afraid I have to echo the thoughts of many on here, I'm disappointed in Haye.

The toe excuse stands up to a point but where was the gunslinger attitude, where was the commitment to go for it.

I was waiting and waiting for Haye to throw caution to the wind, this was his big opportunity and I feel he will regret how he lost it.

Full credit to Wlad, he boxed well and used his advantages superbly but he is surely there for the taking...

re the toe. If it was killing him from throwing the right hand, how come he only threw right hands all night. He could have lived on the edge and thrown a left hook of his left foot. Or is he just a one trick pony?

Wlad's whole fight plan was to nullify the right hand, would kind have hoped that the master strategists at team hayemaker might have had a plan b, when the right hand wasn't working.

LivinginItaly wrote:Agree, I would have backed Bruno to get Vlad out of there.

The thing is, many people congratulated Haye for the way he fought Valuev and said he did what he had to do to get the win. Fair enough in my view. But, though Valuev was a huge, lumbering guy, he was NOT a big puncher. So when you consider that Wladimir was facing a guy touted by himself and many others as being the biggest puncher in the heavyweight division, surely he can be forgiven for adopting and adhering to the tactics necessary to nullify Haye's assets??

I still think Wlad's performance was more exciting than Haye's was versus Valuev but I knew, should he win, he'd get yet more criticism. As for Haye, I always had my doubts about him facing the Ruiz's, Barrets and Harrison's and then facing Wladimir and expecting to destroy him easily. Watching Haye's flaws in those fights, I really did'nt believe he would be versatile enough and he was'nt. Personally, I hope he goes back down to cruiser - There are some good fights for him there - Huck, Afolabi, Cunningham... If he really did weigh 208lbs last night, he should go back down.

Wlad may have been there for taking but Haye didn't have the punch variety or tactics to trouble him

Interesting point about Tyson, I was expecting Haye to throw some early close up Tyson-esque uppercuts and hooks, I thought Haye would win the fight up close and take Wlad out of his comfort zone with speed angles footwork and power, how wrong I was!!

It was an awful performance from Haye, perhaps in the end he was beaten by his own mouth, because of what he'd said in the build up he was too conscious of being made a fool of, but hes made himself look stupid enough now anyway

Thought Wlad looked very nervous before the fight also, he def had the more nerves of the 2

Haye should retire now, can't see how he can expect people to take him seriously again

To be honest for me complaining about Wlad not taking risks or sticking to his jab straight right tactics is like watching a Merchant Ivory film and complaining there weren't enough car chases. He has a method that works for him and judging by the crowds he draws in Germany it seems to work for his target market . Is for his opponents to get him out of his routine and doing something he is uncomfortable with. Haye just joins the long list of guys completely incapable of doing this. Also given in the build up so may people were telling us how much quicker and heavier handed Haye was than anyone Wlad has faced before surely he can be forgiven for not choosing last night to throw caution to the wind.

Welcome aboard by the way Strongy

Solid, effective, nullifying display from Wlad.

Pretty much what we've come to expect from him. No knockout this time round as Wlad was possibly too cautious and Haye's chin is better than I had anticipated.

Instead, Haye just got the Ibragimov treatment.

I can understand that many people will view it as a nightmare to watch. However, I'm sure its an even worse nightmare to face.

I agree that the ATG heavies of recent years such as Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe would probably have too much for him.

However, he'd mop the floor with the other "contenders" (Moorer, Bruno, Morrison, Tua, Old Foreman etc) just as he's doing with the current crop.

rowley wrote:
Welcome aboard by the way Strongy

Thanks Jeff, good to see so many familiar names.

J.Benson II wrote:
However, he'd mop the floor with the other "contenders" (Moorer, Bruno, Morrison, Tua, Old Foreman etc) just as he's doing with the current crop.

Heres a list of 80's HW fighters I quickly googled. No dominant champs from an initial glance. Many of these guys would give Wlad serious problems.

Tyrell Biggs 30(20)-10-0

James Tillis 42(31)-22-1

Greg Page 58(48)-17-1

Tim Witherspoon 55(38)-13-1

Tony Tubbs 47(25)-10-0

Trevor Berbick 49(33)-11-1

Renaldo Snipes 39(22)-8-1

Buster Douglas 38(25)-6-1

Frank Bruno 40(38)-5-0

Jerry Cooney 28(24)-3-0

Bonecrusher Smith 44(32)-17-1

Pinklon Thomas 43(34)-7-1

Razor Ruddock 38(29)-5-1

Mitch Green 19(12)-6-1

Tony Tucker 57(47)-7-0

Carl Williams 30(16)-6-0

None of those would be any more effective than Haye.

Wlad vs Tyson would have been an incredibly one sides affair in Wlads favour. just too small. tyson wasnt fast enough to do damage because Wlad isnt slow at all.

as much as we dont like to admit it, no one is big enough or good enough to beat him and rose tinted glassed for the fighters of the 80s isnt doing anyone any good.

fact is, vitali and Wlad would have given any heavyweight a run for their money, at any point in history.

the earlier smaller heavyweights would have been chewed up and spat out if they decided to stand and fight. otherwise it'd be survival mode and easy points win for the brothers.

vitali especially could knock anyone out that ha ever stepped into a ring. if he was average size - 6ft 2, its not the same story, but hes not, hes very big and very, very strong

Bob wrote:None of those would be any more effective than Haye.

You don't think Gerry Cooney would do better than Haye against Wlad?


I think Cooney would be a strong favourite.