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Bath RFC	InTheFastLane
Exeter Chiefs	Driver - RIP 606
Gloucester	Anonmattyt
Harlequins	Steven_Sharks
Leicester Tigers	LukeLovesLuka
London Irish	stnick88
London Wasps	Arry
Newcastle Falcons	Sgt_Pooly
Northampton Saints	Dammit_Chris
Sale Sharks	SirJohnnyEnglish
Saracens	LDCPete
Worcester Warriors	prop_lyd

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Waiting List
1. Sam
2. pullthestrings
3. Bathite

Mvovo is dire I agree. Picked due to his colour and nowt else. I would not use Joc as a stick to beat other players. Joc is a one off talent and not many people have his skill set.

Its interesting what you are saying here Mat, and I agree with you completely with it. The same thing happened when Union went professional in England, we concentrated on making 'athletes' instead of rugby players, particularly between 2001-2004 (not including the players that were already in the England setup) - focused on fitness, power and speed e.g. guys like Erinle, Noon etc. No skill, just power.

It was a huge problem and massive mistake in approach, as it just seemed we lost a lot of talented rugby players who were tossed out for power, strength and no skills. This was obvious as soon as the 2003 players started to retire...

It seems like the southern hemisphere are starting to unearth some real 'freaks' of rugby players like Ioane, who are just power, speed and strength - but lack a lot of rugby basics and dont have the greatest rugby brains as they can rely on their power to do a lot of their work for them. Be interesting to see whether defence coaches will work out a way to stop guys like Ioane from playing at their best, seems to happen a lot now and they can get marshalled out of changing a game.

Read a really good point in the Times today in that they said if you can stop Genia playing then you stop Australia - main emphasis was on Genia as the Aussies best player, and said that whilst Cooper was brilliant he is still a liability and if you harass Genia you can stop Cooper playing as well. Genia best no9 going by some distance I think.

Genia makes them tick, think we had this discussion the other day. Been really impressed with him lately, stepped up a level.

Noon gets a real bad wrap, he was twice the rugby player Erinle is. Had a great all round game just outstanding defence. Played outside Tindall at 12 so never seen much attacking ball.

Its easy to stay thats how to beat Australia its another thing doing it.

Everyone knows you can beat barcelona if you stop Messi, Xavi and Iniesta but its not an easy job doing it.

Say you do stop Genia, you still have Cooper, AAC, JOC, Ioane and Beale to stop.

I always liked noon but don't rate him as a player as I feel he's declining. he was just a less talented Tindall unfortunateley

The way to beat the Aussies is give them a good beating up front and prevent them from setting out a platform to attack. That way the only ball they have is scrapy and you can get to and close down people like Cooper and Beale as they have no space to operate in.

Just sounds like normal lazy journalism. Pretty easy to see most things start at Genia, similar with Du Preez with SA.

Arry

Genia spent large parts of the Super 15 dealing with scrappy ball. He is excellent on the back foot and thats why he is so special. Crusaders battered reds up fronts twice last season but the Genia/Cooper combo still managed to create chances and win the games.

Oz are the best equipped side to deal with scrappy ball on the back foot.

not sure where scrum.com are going with this article. Not even i can argue Cooper was better than Genia/JOC et al yesterday.

http://www.espnscrum.com/tri-nations-2011/rugby/story/144737.html

Thing is yesterday's game was a non-event, same with all the tri-nations games, cant see a single squad that travels away being a first team. Can see lots of similar scorelines all throughout this years Tri-Nations.

You can mark Genia out of games, England have played him exceptionally well in their last 4 test matches, he can still do amazing things, but if you put him off his natural game then you can stop Cooper getting a free ride. Putting pressure on Cooper is absolutely vital to stopping the Aussies flow. Personally I dont rate their centres as being outstanding, and would like to see O'Connor used in a much more central role - out on the wing and he's wasting a talent - anyone see him as an int class 10 in a few years?

"Oz are the best equipped side to deal with scrappy ball on the back foot"

I'm with that, they are so explosive in attack. Not even NZ have the counter attacking of Aus.

Watching JOC at 10 this year for the force I think he'd walk into a fair few sides at FH. Needs a little work but he was generally very ipressive there. He's just one of those players that is just a talent with ball in hand, could play him anywhere.

I think Joc would be wasted at 10. Think at 12 or 13 he would flourish

Just feel bad that Aussies play him out on the wing - he's an unbelievable talent, pretty certain that he's still just 20 too? He's just got a natural ability and is very intelligent. Just very tough for him to settle in a position, where does he play week in week out for his club team?

He flitters for the Force. 10 12 and 15 are his positions. With the Rebels I expect he and Beale will play 10 and 15 in some order

Nalaga could be moved on to improve on Perugini?

Good news
http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/fit-again-barnes-shows-selectors-his-credentials-20110723-1hudi.html

good news for you, bad news for arry!

barnes was always going to come back - just think he will play fewer games and be better managed / protected.

Posted that on Saturday Matt, must have slipped you by

Driver I am away Tuesday - Wednesday

No bother mate

Just post your team on my exeter page as I won't be able to get thread up until tomorrow

lads am after a WC fullback, an english winger and a WC centre....have alot of players available.

Looks like Ollie le Roux isn't pulling any punches, must be some serious pressure on P Div at the min:

http://www.espnscrum.com/southafrica/rugby/story/144777.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

I said similar at the weekend Pooly. Smit is a legend, but he is struggling now at international level.

I must admit, I thought he was ok. Gotta play TH though if they want their captain in the team. I wouldn't drop Beast and nobody is shining at TH.

TH is a problem shirt for them for sure.

Beast would be dropable but only if Steenkamp was fit. can't see him being dropped currently

beast, bdp are almost nailed on for me....then its between jdp and botha i guess, neither are outstanding though. mujati and nel are always options.

Mujati should be the SA TH going on ability alone but he simply isn't popular with selectors. Good news for me

Mujati was never that great in SA, he's either improved massivley over the last year or Tonga & Hartley make him look better than he is.

I'd have Beast well ahead at LH, think Connie is better than Steenkamp too, think he's average.

Beast is streets ahead of Steenkamp.

Steenkamp was best lh in the world until injury and was incredIble last year. Prefer him to beast by quite a bit.

Apparently steenkamp will be fit for home tri nations games. For
Me he is best lh in south Africa by a distance. COonie has it all but is too young currently

Steenkamp was never best LH in the world, maybe in SA when Beast was in exile. I'd personally rate Beast higher and Coonie too, never like Steenkamp as a scrummager, really struggles every time I've seen him in the NH.

Seen steenkamp dismantle the kiwi font row that included woodcock and franks.?

Who would call there kid guthro though ???

Seen beast get hammered quite a few times this year but also seen him hand out a few also. Does not help that jdp has a tough time this year.

Bdp defo hit the best deal gene wise

To be fair at present I don't think any of the top props in the world have really stood out over the last 12 months. All have had some good games, but also taken a couple of hidings.

Real opportunity for someone to put their hand up to be acclaimed the best in their position at the World Cup.

I've done this weeks fixture thread as it hadn't been done...

https://www.606v2.com/t10249-fixtures-6#309911

LDCPete wrote:To be fair at present I don't think any of the top props in the world have really stood out over the last 12 months. All have had some good games, but also taken a couple of hidings.

Real opportunity for someone to put their hand up to be acclaimed the best in their position at the World Cup.

Think that is a really good point pete. Every prop has had his hammerings and handed out a few it seems. The real top dogs like Castro, Woodcock, Mas, Jones, Steenkamp,Murray, Sheridan etc have been up and down or injured.

It has meant other players have emerged but still have to prove themselves. Look at crockett. he was dreadful a year or so ago but scrummages well now. That said i do think the overall strenght of the Crusaders team makes certain players look better than they are. Thats always the arugment with Freauan on most forums and a few other players like whitelock

That's a fair one about Crockett. Crusaders have a great spine and some true world class players which allows others in the team to look better at times than they are. Someone like Ryan Crotty for example is a good club player, but looks fantastic in the Crusaders midfield outside Carter and behind an awesome pack.

would he look as good in the Chiefs midfield? I seriously doubt it.

Crockett has done well, but I don't see him ever being World Class. Will do a job, but can't see him really dismantling a top tighthead in a big game.

Nicely done sneaking Steenkamp in there Matt
Personally dont see him as one of the best based on just 1 good season.
Will be interesting to see how the world cup goes and how much of a difference there will be from game to game in reffing the scrum with NH and SH refs taking a different view point.

I've heard that argument about the likes of Crockett, B Franks, G Whitelock before all decent players made to look better but not Freuen considering he was a junior world player of the year in his stint for the u20s and one of the best players at ITM cup level for the last 2 years

Must have missed that dismantling Steenkamp done of Franks. Agree with the rest but Steenkamp have just never been in that top bracket, many better props.

Has been a odd year for props. Castro has had the poorest year I've seen him have, Mas has been dismantled many times and I used to think those two were strongest TH's about.

No-one massively stood out for me.
Castro and Mas were below par but still decent. Tigers scrum was still pretty solid.
Don't think Steenkamp is in the top bracket, but on form is a great loosehead. Wouldnt say him or Franks are world class scrummagers though.

There are lots of people who reckon SBW makes him look good. For me he runs good lines and is a decent player. I dont think he would let people down at international level. would i have him above smith or Kahui?? No but then again Kahui is so rarely fit that you have to look at the next raft and i would then probably take Freaun as the next best.

he would walk the England side for sure.

Think the reffing in the scrum will be a massive challenge in the WC Johnny. Saw coonie complaining the other day about the LH Getting penalised more. To be fair 90% of scrums that collapse are due to the TH. if you are TH and you get the hit wrong you are in problems so its in your interest to try and get it reset.

Cole tended to start over Castro, I'd personally have Franks in that bracket. Crusaders have smashed all this season with Franks the lynchpin, be an interesting WC for scrums.

Based on Freuens form this year I'd have him ahead of Kahui. Been playing better then Smith as well. Only Fourie has been better in the super 15

Having never had to play in the scrum (thank christ), wont say i know the ins and outs but would think it will be very difficult for front rows dealing with two different sets of interpretations from game to game. Going to be very interesting

disagree with that pooly, Castro started much more, Cole tended to come off the bench in the big games.

Franks and Crockett had a great season but I think the NH scrumagging is stronger than SH. All Blacks scrum was dominated by England in the Autumn. Cant remember how they fared against Ireland and Wales scrum, seem to recollect Wales dominating it too.

I would have Freuan above Kahui but not Smith.

Your maybe right Nick but they've obliterated every scrum in the S15 by some way. I remember Cole getting at Woodcock a few times but don't remember AB's having any other problems throughout the series.

Kahui is a real player, just tends to get injured at the wrong time.

I need to see Franks really dominate on an international level before he is world class. By the same reasoning Mujati is close to the top bracket as he has been the Tight Head in a scrum which has also obliterated every opponent it has faced this year.

Franks has a big world cup and he will be right up near the top of the list.

Wish he'd have played last week Steve...reckon I could have done a job on Greyling!

Who are we talking about here Pooly? Is Greyling not the SA Loosehead from last week? I thought he was great in the Loose but not much in the scrum. Similar to Healy, Dickinson and others.