Welsh Squad may have a very youthful look about it...!

flyhalffactory wrote:

manofgwent wrote:You can argue with the stats and say, 7 six nations wins in 15. Thank the lord italy are in the tournament! Oh and we've been dire in the autumn tests.

Totally true

Why do posters look back over say 6 seasons when they know two GS's skew the figures, more importantly are the two 4ths and 5ths.

You can count yourselves lucky that England inexplicably changed tactics when having the upper hand in your 2005 & 2008 GS years

Also the 2009 win against us was a travesty of justice, also Italy are ruing some missed opportunities over the last 3 seasons

TBH in most Scottish eyes (opinions) we have progressed as a national team, and see us just ahead of the Italians, on par with the Welsh but just behind Ireland, and a bit behind England and France

Unfortunately both our ML teams were pants this year, so we are erring on caution

Barry John III wrote:With respects, chaps, do you genuinely believe we will revert to type tactically when it comes to the next 3 games and onto the RWC?

My own theory is based on the fact that Wales have played nothing but predictable rugby for a little over 3 years. What does that tell you? We've reverted to playing the type of rugby that simply doesn't suit the nature of the quality of players we have. If anything, it's essentially against the ethic of what these players are good at doing and where that might seem like a ''problem'', what I actually believe is happening is the assimilation of game plans that Wales were never capable of standing up to.

My evidence is the kick and defend tactic deployed quite regularly during this years' 6N campaign. The moves throughout some games i.e. Italy looked hideously predictable and over-coached. Why? It's a simple measure of stick to the plan. Kick for territory, improve the set piece (even if it was shakey) and attack only when it's on. To me it was blatantly obvious.

This is undeniably a coached system being deployed on field. In moments where we saw strange events, you only need look at the tiny percentages over the France and Scotland games of 2010 where Wales actually decided to embark on their own instincts and attacked. It paid off in 1 game but not the other - but the real telling factor was what happened in a short space of time when play wasn't following the coached system.

Gatland isn't so much ''holding Wales back'', he's just stubbornly drilling a type of rugby capable of sustaining a better defensive unit against better opposition and enforcing the ability to cope under higher defensive pressure. Something Wales have never been capable of in the professional era until now. OK, granted, we have very limited resources in Wales and that does play a large factor in how you approach newer caps and how they fit into your system, but it's all relevant. We very, very rarely get a solid hiding from teams these days and that's because we've been working on a model of rugby that is able to keep us within a reasonable chance of a win.

Consider the larger losses, I mean, every team has a really bad day when they ship points like they were passes, but that's part of rugby and what the opposition want to do to you.

Our current systematic and predictable model will not work in the RWC and that's why I completely agree why public opinion in Wales is low on our chances and why people are losing faith, but I offer you this; Gatland has yet to instruct this team to simply go out and play their way (having now been well drilled on defensive systems, forward strength improved set-piece organisation) and while it might not pay off, it's the only thing I think he left under his sleave.

He's coached them on being a more resilient defence outfit capable of being within a shout of the SH teams, but now he might just say: ''Use that and do what you do best''

Thanks for reading my essay, fellas!

flyhalffactory wrote:
Bazzer
I would say your comments represent naivety personified

1. Rugby style v Quality of players - Do you believe in the myth of "the welsh way"
2. The Italian game - you do realise a perceived "creative" was in at the 10 slot due to public pressure and the game was so predictable it was untrue
3. The Scotland game - if you understood our persona as a nation, you would realise we ALWAYS hit the ground crawling, it wasnt so much Wales playing the "welsh way" more of Scotland playing the "Scottish Way", once (after 30 mins) we actually got into 2nd and 3rd gear ............. we never actually got in 4th, you reverted to the "real welsh way"
4. The French game - let be honest the French put their foot off the gas, otherwise you would have been on an all-time pasting, by the way the "creative" 10 was again in control
5. The telling factor was you did play as Mr G stated playing what was in front of you but when the opponents suddenly upped the ante you didnt have the players who could change the game
6. Limited resources - come on man, in any sport you can see people succeed on limited resources, why havent England football won more than one WC, or had a Wimbledon champion, why are NZ so good at rugby in both codes, it can be argued you have much more resources than Italy/Scotland/Argentina/Canada etc but you struggle against these teams

Smell the coffee young man
Wales and the Welsh Way............... if you attempt to run at Fiji or Samoa or SA you will ghet destroyed, what you have to say is Gatland has put too much faith his his close band of players who for the best part of 3 yrs have not been the best in Wales

Byrne - Barry Davies is better, Stoddart is better
Hook - not the creative player you allk think he is, operates superbly in loose play, is dire in a closed situation. Gatland persists (under pressure) to play him.......... same goes with Henson, Mr G is bending over backwards to
Phillips - is not the player you need to implement Mr Gatland tactics (great defensive pack & quick distribution), it worked brilliantly when super fast Howley was 9 at Wasps but fell apart with Wales because of two-step Phillips
AWJ - at lock he invariably gives penalties away under pressure

These players have underperformed in 2009-2011...... why?
Simple they know they are going to the WC however they perform.The intensity is not there because they havent been trained its because they know they are relatively safe

glamorganalun wrote:manofgwent:
lydiate and S Jones were subbed at 60 mins against England and I thought we were doing OK at the time, JT took over from Lydiate (grr) and Bryne at full back and Hook taking over at 10. As you know I am no fan of S Jones but he was playing OK but Roberts was not in the game so the obvious sub was Hook to the centre and Bryne to FB and keep Lydiate on as our back row were doing well (having got shot of Powell).

Flyhalf:

Minor correction Hook was centre against the Italians, he was FB against England.