Australia v Samoa

First topic message reminder :

Samoa leading 17 - 0 after after 31 minutes.

Yes biltong, they're too young to dwell on things and will definitely try to make amends next week.

It's just that lack of experience at higher levels might undo them if they get rattled again early... but as I said, the team will look and perform better next week hopefully and I'm sure they'll try to get points on the board early.

Fox Sports commentary team were the highlight for me. Usual form, talk up the opposition you think you’re sure to beat, praise them early on for their play when you’re still confident of winning, then blame everything and everyone when you finally realise it’s all going South.

Usual stuff came out – the Australians were only losing because they had the wrong studs in their boots – but also a few new pearlers. Apparently the poor loves were over tired from a strenuous training session that week and also suffering from the fact that their player pool was spread across various regions. Obviously no one had explained to them where the Samoan players had travelled from then.

The sporting public really deserve better than Phil Kearns and Greg Martin – and so do the Wallablies.

I thought they weren't too bad. Kearns' comment about the studs in the boots was tongue-in-cheek, and to be honest some of the banter was filling the injury gaps and pauses where the Samoan's were cleverly slowing down the game.

I was stunned when Marto even suggested the TMO made the right call on the Samoan try (rather than pretend he couldn't see the clear grounding), and when all three agreed that the late tackle penalty on Giteau was clear nonsense.

At least none of them came out with any of that condescending "pacific warrior" patronising rubbish that you get from Inverdale et al.

I kind of like the way Greg Martin ridiculously exaggerates anything to do with Australia. "Jeez, since he's come on Genia has beaten 40 defenders with that side step", "Digby, digby still going, beats one, beats two, beats 12 defenders!" or "Wallabies might regret turning down those 14 or 15 penalty attempts early on the in game". I bet he has no idea he's doing it.

We only got the voice-in-the-threshold-of-pain over the top nonsense at one point, which was probably deserved in the amazing bit of skill that saw Australia's last try scored.

Yes, I couldn't believe how Higginbotham stayed in. Freakish flirting with the sideline there. Davies got smashed a short while later when trying to slip down the sideline after that hospital pass. Ouch!

I can understand NTH's point about Kearns & Martin's style of commentary. It's sometimes bearable when we're winning, though I do cringe at times. I'm too used to it now but it would sound horribly over-the-top to someone not used to the tongue-in-cheek style they often use.

And when we lose like today, it doesn't sound so funny at all. However, I still prefer them to Gordon Bray though!

Well things are a bit calmer on this site than some others i have seen - the comments i have seen elsewhere are in the context of the most embarrassing result in wallabies history or at least since wallabies lost to Tonga in the early 70s.

The only thing that came out of it was Deans hopefully gets a bit serious in his selections. It also told us that after resting the Reds and accounting for injuries, what is left was a poor B team who played like pretty average S15 players without any passion in the face of a hugely physical and excellent defense from Samoa- lets face it, most of them were anyway and some others would have to count themselves lucky to be there.

Deans gave a few people a go. But I do not think we will be seeing any of: McCalman, Hodgson, Timani, Phipps, MCabe, Gerrard, AAC again this year. That's half today's team.

Vickerman was pretty out of touch with things. Timani turned the ball over 6 times - that has to be some kind of world record.

Very poor at the tackle/breakdown - they coffed up a lot of ball and the Samoans disrupted them a lot with numbers and physical presence . I just didn't see numbers there at all at the tackle - that would be a back row issue, hence Mcalman and Hodgon are gone for the season now and Rocky, well, all you can say is he is there courtesy of Deans' commitment. As captain, he will be given more opportunities.

Phipps as halfback - he had a very forgettable game. Can't see him being tried again.

What can you expect from the Brumbies 10, 12 and 13? Not a lot as I feared - they played like the Brumbies did this year. Giteau scored a converted try set up by Higginbotham but he didn't actually creat any opportunities, make any breaks or give any assists - a pretty standard game from him. If Deans settle on Giteau at 12 he will lose a lot of people's support and respect.

I hope Higginbotham gets a start at No8 next week with Pocock and Rocky at flanker.

Well played to Samoa - SA and Wales will be taking notes. They have some big boys in that side - 111kg winger!

I'm thinking along the same lines as you there Rob.

I mentioned a similar list of non-starters on the pub thread and some folks completely missed the point. Yes, we lost... but if Ireland thinks today was a good omen - (then I better keep my mouth shut)

That 'attempted' first tackle on him... it was like watching a piece of cotton wool trying to bring down a double-decker bus...no offence to Davies.

He makes Jonah Lomu look like a 13 year old netballer

You'd need a high potency tranquiliser dart fired from a 250 calibre canon at point blank range to stop that guy.

I don't know about you guys, but Giteau hasn't impressed me for the last 18 months

At least BB... one could argue even longer. He's been around for a while now and lost some zip that's for sure.

It's the same old problems for the Aussies. Backs only look good going forward and the forwards flatter to decieve because they just don't cut it in the physical areas of the pitch.

The Aussies got the rub of the green off of the referee but just didn't show the required commitment and were just not ruthless in anyway shape or form. They loked more dangerous when the changes happened in the backs but they need to show more in the tighter areas.

Poor Rod Davies will be asking his girl friend to check under the bed in case Alesana Tuilagi is hiding there. Smashed him every time he touched the ball.

biltongbek wrote:I don't know about you guys, but Giteau hasn't impressed me for the last 18 months

He hasn't had his zip for around 3 seasons. It took Deans a while to act on it but when he was replaced with Barnes in the Hong Kong test the backline immediately looked more dangerous. No 12 is a bit of problem for Deans given Barnes is out. It is the depth thing. Giteau just doesn't have any ideas and he is also unsuited outside Cooper. Would like to see Faingaa given a go at 12. Giteau just doesnt fit anymore.

Deans has argued recently that JOC is too small to play inside centre as a lot of people would like to see him there. Thing is, Giteau is both shorter and lighter than JOC so it doesn't add up. Today would have been the day to try JOC at inside centre - that opp is gone.

Davies will wake up covered in Tuilagi's tattoos tomorrow. They were classic hits with just enough arm used.

Watched the match. Greeat win for Samoa. Aus didn't show respect in the first half, spurning pen kicks. Ferocious tackling and physicality in the contact area from Samoa. But Aus naive, like Wales was against Fiji. Samoa scrum and lineout not great. Samoa showed some great handlin in 2nd half and show the innate rugby skils they have if they're on the front foot -- and then they're a handful for anyone. But teams with stronger set pices have to play a more structured game to put the points on the board to beat them. Great match.

Absolutely brilliant! Delighted for Samoa. As usual, the neutrals will be right behind them come World Cup time.

Can't wait to see the highlights.

Super win for Samoa! For such a tiny population this really is a terrific achievement!

I'm curious though, how many of the Australian side that played to day would people say are first choice players?

Last Autumn Munster showed that the second choice players were not up to much. Is this much the same side?

Sounds like a great win for Samoa, interested to see the highlights when I get a chance.

Listening to a lot of you guys it sounds like Tuilagi wasn't on your radars much, hence your reactions to his playing style are..interesting.

NH people, would you agree that, whilst a fine player, he doesn't often utterly dominate his opposite man as these reports suggest? Sounds like definite inadequacies on Rod Davies' part.

Suddenly winning group D in the WC doesn't look such an advantage... probably playing Samoa . This will make things more interessing

Irish Curry wrote:Suddenly winning group D in the WC doesn't look such an advantage... probably playing Samoa . This will make things more interessing

Based on one game? Jesus, people will get sucked into hype.

[quote="Risca Rev"][quote="Irish Curry"]Suddenly winning group D in the WC doesn't look such an advantage... probably playing Samoa . This will make things more interessing[/quote]

Based on one game? Jesus, people will get sucked into hype.[/quote

Samoa have been playing very well for a while now so its not just based on one game.

Yeah, losing to Fiji and Tonga is great form.

[quote="Risca Rev"]Yeah, losing to Fiji and Tonga is great form.[/quote]

They hardly played their full team in those matchs.

So what other form are they in?

playing samoa? i think the welsh lads will have something to say about that.

people forget this Aus side had a alot of "2nd team" players and they didnt respect Samoa, this will hopefully give wales those warning signs

[quote="Risca Rev"]So what other form are they in? [/quote]

They beat Japan who won the pacific nations cup and ran ireland and scotland in the last autumn tests. They can only get better with time as they play more together as a team.

Very happy for Samoa, deserved their win. Don't think they'll be troubling the Boks much; South Africa will play smart and to their strengths which funnily enough is Samoa's weaknesses.

They'll certainly be asking us a lot of questions of Wales though. I just hope we're ready for this group.

Irish Curry wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:So what other form are they in?

They beat Japan who won the pacific nations cup and ran ireland and scotland in the last autumn tests. They can only get better with time as they play more together as a team.

So ran two teams who Wales beat close. They probably will finish second then. They also aren't playing again until the World Cup are they?

I know both our games against Samoa and Fiji will be very tough (as will the Welsh squad), but there is a bit too much hype going into this win today.

Be interesting to see if Deans goes all out for the Reds next week. He's had yet another hardly explainable loss that Aus fans will just have to 'put up with'- amazing.

Doesnt appear to have done any homework on the Samoan's and some poor signs all round really.

Aus will bounce back because they have to but man any which way you look at it having to rely on the Reds young guys stepping up another level when they have already stepped up enough this year is a big ask. And where is the back up?

Pdv will be going for the jugular with this one.

Well done Samoa. They'll certainly be looking forward to the next 3 months or so.

All it means is a near full strength Samoa are formidable for anyone,take them lightly.Just like Italy in the NH treat them with respect or they will hurt you.
The Idea any side is in a match to make up the numbers is courting disaster.

Very brief highlights here guys - Wales beware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNiViOy5Qz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsVHte6Wb8&feature=feedu

Longer highlights.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Perfect time for an ambush. Oz coming off a Reds final but playing players who havnt played for 3 weeks, while the Samoans have just been playing the Pacific cup.

Still, not a good start for Deans who will now do what? Rely on the bulk of the Reds as his top side.

Not a good sign at all and very surprising.

I imagine Deans will be thankful that he's the Wallaby coach and not the AB coach in this kind of situation. The Aussies will say "fair play" and Australia will be back next week. Perspective will be maintained on the context.

Now the ABs on the other hand have this "win every game" mantra to live by. The world media would be decrying the ABs would would have "peaked too soon" or "choked" and internally a wave of fury, anguish, outrage and retribution would ensue. Talkback radio would be abuzz with calls for the coaches to the sacked and the players exiled and so on.

On the other hand Deans now clearly knows his (lack of) depth outside the Reds squad.

Whereas you would just be blaming the ref, and/or England

Theres been some bonkers results over the last month. Japan winning the pislands cup and now this. I guess its pretty typical in the build up to a world cup though. All the same Australia should be upset by that.

stevetynant wrote:Very brief highlights here guys - Wales beware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNiViOy5Qz4

The thing is we've been aware since long before todays result pal.

"Absolutely Ghost. I hear that even Al Jazeerer now have a permanent All Blacks news desk, and after his unprecedented seven month journey to 'Analysis', they are thinking of updating the Koran with his (you're no longer allowed to say his name) teachings."

Nah.. thats a little over the top. How about just retiring the no. 23 again?

Lets see where this journey to analysis gets us to next week shall we/

aucklandlaurie wrote: Blackcan
Bigger,Bigger, bigger oh and a bit faster and stronger....

and smaller Heads!!!

Just read the Sydney Morning Herald. Apparently yesterdays loss is less of a shock than the loss to Scotland a couple of years ago.

blackcanelion wrote:Just read the Sydney Morning Herald. Apparently yesterdays loss is less of a shock than the loss to Scotland a couple of years ago.

Didn't Australia put out pretty much their full team against Scotland though?

Yep. That was the reasoning. It does mean the Aussie press recognnises the quality of Samoa. I'm sure they'd just as gutted if they'd lost to the likes of Scotland yesterday.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

welshjohn369 wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:You're repeating yourself. Honestly as much creativity as the Welsh backline...the same thing, over and over. And over.

Now, pay careful attention next week when the ABs show you how to beat Fiji.

You can show us how to beat France in the World Cup too

You mean you weren't watching when we beat France in the final? It was the same year as Wales' best performance - you got out of your pool that year.

The 1987 Final hahahahaha, NZ best performance too ain't it hahahaha 1987 is the same as 1966 in England.

Now 2007 and France in Cardiff gives you a chance to pull out all them GG excuses

I brought it up because it Wales' best performance to date. Making it all the way through to the knock-out stage. Well done!

2007, we all know what went on there, no need to discuss it any more. You really are the most incapable WUM that has ever plagued a site.

Anyway, back on topic.

The thing that worries me about the Aussies (and frankly always has), is that even with Samoa so far ahead and so little time on the clock it still appeared until the hooter went that they'd find some way to pull it out of the fire. I can only recall one or two games when NZ played the Wallabies where I could breathe in the last 10 minutes.

welshjohn369, that 'yahoo' smiley is really annoying. It's apt that you use it so often.

I'm annoyed with myself for missing this game - great win by Samoa, and despite it being a hybrid 1st/2nd Australia side, that's still no excuse. No disrespect to Samoa intended, but even a 2nd choice Australia should be doing better.

Surely repercussions here for Wales as well. That'll give Samoa some real belief and confidence.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:welshjohn369, that 'yahoo' smiley is really annoying. It's apt that you use it so often.

Get used to it then

A childish and inevitable response. Well done you.

As inevitable as your inevitable response to my inevitable response I guess.

captainrapido Alesana's form has really improved of late and he has been fairly dominant for Tigers in the second half of their season. Finished as the top try scorer in the AP and seems to have really stepped up and gained another gear since his brother came into the first team. Guess a bit of sibling rivalry has spurred him on.

Having seen some of the Reds games this year Rod Davies was never going to stop Tuilagi, be similar to him swatting a fly away. Until Davies learns to ride the big hits and hang onto the ball rather than abandon the ball and hope the big man doesn't smash him to hard then he will never be international standard. Great speedster who can pick up an intercept a mile away but far too light weight for physical internationals.

formerly known as Sam, in fairness to Rod Davies, he was lined up on a couple of occasions and the ball should never have gone to him.

The thing is I'm not entirely sure why everyone was so suprised by the "upset." Somoa are a good side and have been for a while now. Yes they have a reputation for big hitting and then not lasting the full 80, but now that most of them play a very decent standard there is little concern in this area.

The issue for them now is consistency. They are always capable of beating teams, but their lack of organisation at times and lack of time together as a squad are the things which need to be overcome. Funding is a big issue for them, but if they got more time together they would be a very dangerous side!

I expect them to cause a bit of a stir in the world cup. Pool D is one of the most open in my opinion. There are no certainties. You would expect South Africa's class to tell. However, Wales are by no means certain to go through and could really come unstuck against either Samoa or Fiji, especially if they take the game lightly.

Even if Wales make it through in second place they will have been absolutely beaten up by the time they make it out of the pools, which could be very costly.

Can't wait for the Samoa vs SA game -going to be some huge hits!

The way Samoa closed out the game by turning over possession and then calmly executing a series of controlled forward drives showed a real level of professionalism I thought. Some of the slowing tactics in the second spell and when they were a player down were worthy of England in their prime. Water bottles accidentally left behind, long discussion about the lineout call due to the "stadium noise", props injured needing treatment before each scrum, a 5 minute debate on whether to take a shot at goal, substitutions called whilst the opposition are trying to put pace on the game. Full credit.

TheGreyGhost wrote:The way Samoa closed out the game by turning over possession and then calmly executing a series of controlled forward drives showed a real level of professionalism I thought. Some of the slowing tactics in the second spell and when they were a player down were worthy of England in their prime. Water bottles accidentally left behind, long discussion about the lineout call due to the "stadium noise", props injured needing treatment before each scrum, a 5 minute debate on whether to take a shot at goal, substitutions called whilst the opposition are trying to put pace on the game. Full credit.

Yes, they were true Blue Professionals the way they controlled the pace of the game.