My Fellow Irish Fans Do Any Of You Really Beleive We Can Win It This Year

First topic message reminder :

Because i do.

Not only on paper imho we have the second best team in the world behind NZ but i really believe that this will be the tourney we finally reach our potential as a team with it being BOD's and POC swangsong so to speak

Thought you lived in Dublin Biltong?

biltongbek wrote:But the flipside of the coin is I suspect the guys in the NH do much the same.

Fair points overall Biltong. However I am certainly not writing of SA or any of the SH teams.

I don't watch a great deal of SH rugby these days but certainly we are as strong as any of the NH teams, if not the strongest. If we play close to our best then I am confident we will go ok but I don't think there is much between many of the top sides, bar NZ, so anything could happen.

red stag not if you are English. Beating France is second nature to the England rugby team.

roddersm heavy favourites? Really? Our world cup pedigree speaks for itself. Beating the Aussies and French is not as big a task as other countries would find it.

We are not in awe of the French.

Ireland are 4th in the world simply because they had one good match. They beat an England side who have a woeful record against Ireland. It was at the Aviva Stadium too. You were absolutely fired up for that game. Will you have that motivation in every game?

Hardly a sign of world beaters.

They lost to France at home,scraped a win against Italy in the dying seconds, got beaten by a mediocre Welsh side,smashed by New Zealand at home. They are 4th in the world? Seriously?

I do think Ireland have a good side with potential but let's not get carried away!

Yes you have a very good current record against the English but that won't help vs the tri nations or France.

Luckless; Nonsensical statements? I've answered you. What's so nonsensical, please explain?

nottins_jones

"His name's Henry Jones Jr... We named the dog nottins."

rugbydreamer wrote: Remember the golden rule "Treat others as you would want to be treated".

I want to be spanked

beshocked wrote:red stag not if you are English. Beating France is second nature to the England rugby team.

roddersm heavy favourites? Really? Our world cup pedigree speaks for itself. Beating the Aussies and French is not as big a task as other countries would find it.

We are not in awe of the French.

Ireland are 4th in the world simply because they had one good match. They beat an England side who have a woeful record against Ireland. It was at the Aviva Stadium too. You were absolutely fired up for that game. Will you have that motivation in every game?

Hardly a sign of world beaters.

They lost to France at home,scraped a win against Italy in the dying seconds, got beaten by a mediocre Welsh side,smashed by New Zealand at home. They are 4th in the world? Seriously?

I do think Ireland have a good side with potential but let's not get carried away!

Yes you have a very good current record against the English but that won't help vs the tri nations or France.

Im pretty sure our 4th ranking is based on more than one game...

And in any case, if we are as poor as you say we are, you guys will struggle, seen as though you cant beat us for kicks...

greybeard wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote: Remember the golden rule "Treat others as you would want to be treated".

I want to be spanked

Or an eye for an eye...... another bibical rule....

nottins_jones wrote:
That's an insecure response rodders if ever I saw one... I'm not jealous of any teams potential to succeed and you're insecure to believe that. As for Ireland, didn't they fulfil the limit of their potential in 2009?

Well I'm not the one concerning myself with other teams WC chances? I suppose we'll find out whether Ireland have reached their limit or not in the coming seasons. Certainly I'm happy with the players and infrastructure we have and feel fairly confident about the future.

Maybe you should be more concerned about your own teams "limitations" ?

I can't be bothered to explain, nottins_jones. It's too nice a day outside to get involved in a slanging match.

greybeard wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote: Remember the golden rule "Treat others as you would want to be treated".

I want to be spanked

It's times like this I'm glad they removed the spank emoticon....

Boyne wrote:Thought you lived in Dublin Biltong?

No mate, I live here in the land of PC, biltong and big juicy rump steaks.

beshocked wrote:roddersm how is England beating Australia and France an upset?

We beat those two frequently - 2 consecutive world cups too. We have a positive head to head vs both in the world cup.

Against France maybe, but against Australia it's 2-2 in RWC head-to-head, 23-16 to Australia overall.

roddersm wrote:

Rob B wrote:There is always one or 2 upsets in a RWC. But not a lot more than that.

2007:

Argentina beating France * 2
France Beating NZ
England beating Australia
England beating France
Argentina beating Ireland
Fiji beating Wales

Thats 7 upsets in the last WC alone.

That's why I said 2007 was an aberration.....

Most Irish fans really want to reach a semi final for the first time. We'd be very happy with that, and it's an achievable goal.

If we meet England in a semi final, we can realistically hope for a final appearance, given our totally dominant record over England over the last two World Cup cycles.

However if I was forced to bet 100 quid I'd be putting it on a plucky defeat to Australia and then a quarter final exit to South Africa.

roddersm wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:
That's an insecure response rodders if ever I saw one... I'm not jealous of any teams potential to succeed and you're insecure to believe that. As for Ireland, didn't they fulfil the limit of their potential in 2009?

Well I'm not the one concerning myself with other teams WC chances? I suppose we'll find out whether Ireland have reached their limit or not in the coming seasons. Certainly I'm happy with the players and infrastructure we have and feel fairly confident about the future.

Maybe you should be more concerned about your own teams "limitations" ?

So who is the one concerning themselves with other teams WC chances? I pointed out this OP was a WUM last night then I got attacked, then had to go on to explain my stance. I was also the first to point out that I didn't beleive the OP to be Irish then the day after everyone started to agree with me.

I'm actually very concerned about my team and their pool.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I can't be bothered to explain, nottins_jones. It's too nice a day outside to get involved in a slanging match.

Well I've already explained why I said what I said. Either you agree or can't figure out why you decided I made a nonsensical statement. Perhaps it's because you're a nonsensical person? It's ok, I'll accept your white flag on this occassion but next time I may be far less merciful.

nottins_jones

"His name's Henry Jones Jr... We named the dog nottins."

beshocked wrote:
roddersm heavy favourites? Really? Our world cup pedigree speaks for itself. Beating the Aussies and French is not as big a task as other countries would find it.

Beshocked I am talking about two specific games played at the WC in 2007 in which the underdogs at the time i.e. England beat two teams who were ranked above them and heavliy favoured by both bookies and most right thinking rugby supporters to win i.e. Australia and France .

This has nothing to do with some superiority complex you have over the only top 5 ranked team you regularly beat these days (France) and a team you don't beat anywhere near as frequently as you think you do (Australia).

Good grief. That wasn't a 'white flag,' I just couldn't be bothered to argue with you!

luckless - don't be so miserable. My request was really quite simple and you failed to deliver.

nottins_jones

"His name's Henry Jones Jr... We named the dog nottins."

England have beaten Australia 3 times in the World Cup 1995, 2003 and 2007. So it's 3-2.

Also France weren't Grand Slam champions in 2007. England had beat them earlier in the year 26-18 (at Twickenham).

BTW Ireland are currently ranked 4th because they're about the same level as England and France and finished the most recent series of internationals on top. If they hadn't played so poorly earlier on they would be further ahead instead of a gnats whisker ahead of England. The main thing seperating the top 3 NH sides is the fact Ireland beat England who beat France who beat Ireland.

I really really hope Ireland lose to Australia in the group simply so we wouldn't have to meet them until the final (if we both got there and we top the group).

I'm not miserable - look:

I just don't want to carry on this squabble. If you do, knock yourself out.

Boyne seriously can you read? I already said you have a good record against us. Doesn't help vs the tri nations or France. I never said you were poor.

Just keep hearing proud Irish fans shouting from the rooftops that 4th in the world means you will actually beat the tri nations and France in the world cup.

I would say France,Ireland and England are equal because of the rock,paper, scissors conundrum. In world cups France and England have much better pedigree though.


Linebreaker you are wrong - our victories vs Australia are as follows - 1995 quarter final, 2003 and 2007 wins obviously. That is 3-2.

Thanks HammerofThunor - absolutely agree.

Just keep hearing proud Irish fans shouting from the rooftops that 4th in the world means you will actually beat the tri nations and France in the world cup.

That will be the voices in your head then son. Therees NOBODY saying that here....

........and if you are referring to the OP, we sussed out a while ago that hes actually one of your own.

Beshocked - are we that bad against SA and Australia. Better than us they are but is the difference that great?

Ireland have won 3 of their last 4 games against SA. The defeat was a 2 point loss. The last time they lost previously was 7 years ago.

Ireland v Australia is more complicated. Lost our last game, drew the one before and won the game before that.

red_stag wrote:Beshocked - are we that bad against SA and Australia. Better than us they are but is the difference that great?

Ireland have won 3 of their last 4 games against SA. The defeat was a 2 point loss. The last time they lost previously was 7 years ago.

Ireland v Australia is more complicated. Lost our last game, drew the one before and won the game before that.

I dont think so. Against Wallabies recent results are: lost ('10), draw ('09 last second try), lost ('08), won ('06).

The win and the draw were both in Ireland. Overall: In Ireland: Played 16; lost 10; drew 1. Outside Ireland:Played 13; lost 10.

They have not won against Wallabies outside Ireland in more than 30 years.

red_stag wrote:Beshocked - are we that bad against SA and Australia. Better than us they are but is the difference that great?

Ireland have won 3 of their last 4 games against SA. The defeat was a 2 point loss. The last time they lost previously was 7 years ago.

Ireland v Australia is more complicated. Lost our last game, drew the one before and won the game before that.

No we didn't. We haven't beaten them since 2006.

red_stag wrote:Beshocked - are we that bad against SA and Australia. Better than us they are but is the difference that great?

Ireland have won 3 of their last 4 games against SA. The defeat was a 2 point loss. The last time they lost previously was 7 years ago.

Ireland v Australia is more complicated. Lost our last game, drew the one before and won the game before that.

Redstag, with all due respect to Ireland mate, if you want to look at stats then mention the following to provide a full picture.

In the era of Brian O'Driscoll and the resurgence of Irish rugby, they haven't played a test vs SA away from since since 2004. That test series your lost 2-0.

Prior to your first win of the three in 2004 at home, you were on a losing streak of 7 matches.

Surely the results at home aren't the reason you believe that Ireland will have a 50% chance to beat SA in NZ

The trouble with Ireland is that they're, at times inconsistent, you only have to look at the 6 nations, Italy should have beat them, but vs. England I believe they could have beaten anyone that day including the All Blacks.


So can they win the world cup?

I'd say No, but most Irishman will say yes or they have a good chance, as do many other teams if the BIG 3 SH sides have off days, which they can have from time to time.

Surely there can only be one winner this time around

I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

But that's just me.

Rob B wrote:
They have not won against Wallabies outside Ireland in more than 30 years.

True but our last loss was by 7 points when we were missing the following players:

Keith Earls, Gordon D'arcy, Eoin Reddan, David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip, Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Paul O'Connell, Mike Ross and Rory Best.

That's 6 Lions and the european player of the year in that list so I think that we'll be considerably stronger in the WC.

Our previous WC meeting was a 1 point loss in Australia and Munster also beat Australia last season.

All reasons to be hopeful, if not excited.

MBTGOG wrote:I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

That's like saying if a lady is choosing between me and Brad Pitt I'm in with an excellent chance.

Beschocked, Hammer... sorry, I was out by one win. We still have the better overall head-to-head record though - and 2 RWCs; one more than England.

I would like to see Ireland do well... even though they are in the same group as Australia. The match at EP will be an epic contest hopefully - especially with the crowd backing. (NZers will behind Ireland) If it's a fast open match, I can see Australia running riot, otherwise; if it's wet, windy and miserable conditions - Ireland can win... and that would be a great shot in the arm for the later stages.

If Samoa, Scotland and England can beat Australia. Suffice to say they are not unbeatable at all. They are very unpredictable and becoming the France of the SH. Ireland with probably their strongest ever squad have the grunt to make life very difficult for Australia. However, Australia have some very exciting youngsters in Cooper, Beale, Ioane, O'Connor and Genia who will take some stopping. Sometimes though I feel in tight games they do seem a little rudderless and prone to capitulate. If Ireland can boss their pack and keep the game tight I'd rather have Sexton or OGara to close things out than Cooper.

BATH_BTGOG wrote:The trouble with Ireland is that they're, at times inconsistent,

I think you'll find Ireland have actually been the most consistant side in Europe over the past 10 seasons. we've never been out of the top 3 in the 6N and have the best win loss ratio in the 6N behind france. We were unbeaten in the whole of 2009. We have a decent record at home against the SH teams bar NZ and most of our losses have been by fairly small margins.

You can add Leo Cullen, Jerry Flannery and Denis Leamy to that list Rodders.

Plus the game before that in Australia, we lost by just 8, before that was the one convincing scoreline in Australia's favour, 33-16 though that was blown out by a few late scores and the one before that in the 2003 World Cup was a one point loss.

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

That's like saying if a lady is choosing between me and Brad Pitt I'm in with an excellent chance.

Still one or the other and it's a chance.

roddersm wrote:

Rob B wrote:
They have not won against Wallabies outside Ireland in more than 30 years.

True but our last loss was by 7 points when we were missing the following players:

Keith Earls, Gordon D'arcy, Eoin Reddan, David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip, Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Paul O'Connell, Mike Ross and Rory Best.

That's 6 Lions and the european player of the year in that list so I think that we'll be considerably stronger in the WC.

Our previous WC meeting was a 1 point loss in Australia and Munster also beat Australia last season.

All reasons to be hopeful, if not excited.

Hopeful yes, but don't forget Wallabies this year (and the second half of last year) are a vastly different proposition when they play their A side. The 2010 sdie that played Ireland was vastly different. The side that played Munster in appalling conditions was the full B side who basically never played together. In appalling conditions, agree Ireland will be more competitive.

MBTGOG wrote:

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

That's like saying if a lady is choosing between me and Brad Pitt I'm in with an excellent chance.

Still one or the other and it's a chance.

One or the other, but not equal chances.

MBTGOG wrote:

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

That's like saying if a lady is choosing between me and Brad Pitt I'm in with an excellent chance.

Still one or the other and it's a chance.

By that reasoning you have a 50/50 chance against the all Blacks as well.

MBTGOG wrote:You can add Leo Cullen, Jerry Flannery and Denis Leamy to that list Rodders.

Delighted to Munsty

So thats 9 Lions, the european player of the year and the european cup winning captain. If that won't give us a boost then I don't know what will!

roddersm wrote:

BATH_BTGOG wrote:The trouble with Ireland is that they're, at times inconsistent,

I think you'll find Ireland have actually been the most consistant side in Europe over the past 10 seasons. we've never been out of the top 3 in the 6N and have the best win loss ratio in the 6N behind france. We were unbeaten in the whole of 2009. We have a decent record at home against the SH teams bar NZ and most of our losses have been by fairly small margins.

Ok, the manner in which you play is inconsistent.

One day you look unbeatable the next you look very very average.

Teams like that won't/don't win world cups

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

That's like saying if a lady is choosing between me and Brad Pitt I'm in with an excellent chance.

Still one or the other and it's a chance.

One or the other, but not equal chances.

Why not?

In fairness, Rodders, you followed up a horrible performance in a horrible match against Wales with a storming display against England in your last two games. That doesn't suggest consistency.

biltongbek wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

That's like saying if a lady is choosing between me and Brad Pitt I'm in with an excellent chance.

Still one or the other and it's a chance.

By that reasoning you have a 50/50 chance against the all Blacks as well.

In each game yeah we do. If you break it down to the simplest odds, those are the chances.

leinsterbaby wrote:If Samoa, Scotland and England can beat Australia. Suffice to say they are not unbeatable at all. They are very unpredictable and becoming the France of the SH. Ireland with probably their strongest ever squad have the grunt to make life very difficult for Australia. However, Australia have some very exciting youngsters in Cooper, Beale, Ioane, O'Connor and Genia who will take some stopping. Sometimes though I feel in tight games they do seem a little rudderless and prone to capitulate. If Ireland can boss their pack and keep the game tight I'd rather have Sexton or OGara to close things out than Cooper.

I guess the main difference with France is Australia are ranked 2. Samoa played a B side - they would have wiped a lot of sides that day, including Ireland and England at full strength as they played probably their best game in history. If you want a benchmark, look at Wallabies recent results against the All Blacks:: 28-49; 10-20; 22-23; 26-24. Have a look at the game this August 6 - World Cup Final preview....

MBTGOG wrote:

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

greybeard wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:I personally think that we have a 50% chance of winning against South Africa as the only two outcomes are to win or to lose. 50/50.

That's like saying if a lady is choosing between me and Brad Pitt I'm in with an excellent chance.

Still one or the other and it's a chance.

One or the other, but not equal chances.

Why not?

If Ireland play, say, Kazakhstan in rugby, is there a 50/50 chance of Kazakhstan winning?

Two outcomes (ignoring the draw) aren't necessarily weighted equally.