Who are your favourites for the Semi Finals of the RWC at the moment...?

First topic message reminder :

The start of the Tri-Nations and an Ozzie loss to Samoa have added a few interesting permutations into the mix. ABs are still favourites by a country mile on current form.

Some people base their theories on History though and there are a few teams that have made semis and finals more often than others, will it all just be a little bit of history repeating?

The PI teams look stronger than ever, can they do it?

Is there an unexpected Dark Horse out there who could surprise us all...?

Pick Four Teams from the POLL of who you think will be the Semi Finalists.

beshocked wrote:roddersm with or without professionalism there are generally 5 teams always in the mix - England,France,Australia,South Africa and New Zealand.

Well that isn't true is it? England weren't in the mix in 1999? Argentina were in the mix last time? Australia and NZ both bombed out at the QF stage last time. If SA were classed as being in the mix in 2003, then so were Ireland and Wales (but of course they weren't).

The reality is that a if you look at the last 3 World cups, no side has consistantly been in the mix.

Surely, to be "in the mix", you've got to actually make it into the knock stages ?

Until Ireland and Wales start to perform well in the RWC like France (2 finals) and England (3 finals winning 1) then as far as I'm concerned none of them are true contenders to seriously challenge for the Webb Ellis Cup.

They’re there to make up the numbers just like Russia and USA etc…

by Boyne Yesterday at 2:47 pm

Its funny the way the English (nottins) are mouthing off big style because of their "pedigee" in world cups.

England have beaten Ireland once in 8 years. Home or away. A country with a huge population cannot compete with us really.

As for the 2007 world cup, we all know it was a complete fluke. Look at the team of nobodies they brought.

2003 was a great team mid you, but 2007 was a fluke.

The french will murder England in the quarter finals. And rightly so. Why? Becasue they have better players.

Scotland? Not going to waste much cyber space talking about Scotland.

As for Ireland. We are happy with the way things are set up now and where we are going.

Biltong can give it all that, because, as I said before, he is bricking it. And so all of them in SA should be.

Only the most foolhardy African would be dismissive of Ireland in the quarters.

The thumping they received against New Zealand shows there is nothing to fear there.

Smith is a joke and really should hang up his boots. Give me the welsh or irish backlines any day over the saffers. Pathetic at the weekend. Simply pathetic.

I see us ripping the Saffers to shreds in the QF to be honest.

Home record??? We havent played in South Af for ages, so I dont know where all this BS is coming from.

Bravado I think its called.

Anyway. The day is nearly upon us.

Bring it on.


by roddersm Yesterday at 1:35 pm
nottins wrote:What's amazing about it ? You've only won it once, or do you mean you have an amazing record of not winning it and mostly being the bridesmaid ?


Well nottins we've an amazing record compared to England over the past decade despite seemingly having a reputation outside Ireland of lacking consistancy.


by roddersm Yesterday at 12:52 pm
red_stag wrote:Its about the big picture Asbo. Ireland is a leading rugby nation. We don't really do soccer. GAA are summer sports. We are producing world class players like clockwork since the IRFU embraced professionalism. We've delivered multiple Heineken Cups, Magners Leagues, won the Grandslam, put the likes of Australia and South Africa in their place on a number of occasions etc.

Compare that to the likes of England, Wales, Italy or Scotland. Footballing nations who can claim occasion scalps.


Just remember when the backlash against the Irish fans starts, it was stag who posted this, not me.....

Fair enough Roddersm it looks like the main culprits were actually Red Stag and Boyne.

We are actually in agreement surprisingly. We both think England would be favourites against France. Ireland could make it to the semis. Let's leave it at that ok?

Only five teams have made it to the final

NZ
AUS
SA
ENG
FRA

Can't see that changing this time.

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Until Ireland and Wales start to perform well in the RWC like France (2 finals) and England (3 finals winning 1) then as far as I'm concerned none of them are true contenders to seriously challenge for the Webb Ellis Cup.

They’re there to make up the numbers just like Russia and USA etc…

Thats an absolutely fair comment BATH. An interesting one too.

So you are saying then that you consider England and France to be genuine contenders for the trophy? Would you like to elaborate why?

Be careful now because some people here don't like it when France are 'bigged up'.

Because we can on the odd occasion beat the SH big three both home and away!

Which I believe means we can challenge for the Webb Ellis cup.

beshocked wrote:
Fair enough Roddersm it looks like the main culprits were actually Red Stag and Boyne.

We are actually in agreement surprisingly. We both think England would be favourites against France. Ireland could make it to the semis. Let's leave it at that ok?

That is all I have ever argued

Good luck to England they have a great opportunity. With a bit of good luck hopefully we'll join you (or possibly France) in the Semi's.

Been thinking a lot about prospects of the 4 ‘Home’ side in the RWC (did you know I'm going by the way ) So

IRELAND - total gash. 1 Grand phooking Slam in a millennia and they think they’re the dogs bollix. “Oooh , but we win the HEC cup all the time”. Well. little secret here lads, you wouldn’t have won those Heineken Cups without some mighty WELSH support in those finals and semi-finals. Plus you dis’ the Magners by playing your academy sides all the time

SCOTLAND – where to start. Last decent player they had was Jim Renwick. Garbage – “but we always make the knock out phases”. Yeah, big phooking deal with Finland, Luxembourg and Vanuatu always in your pool. To be fair though you did have the Niue Islands in there once. Jeebus, even your much renowned (at least in your own minds) whiskey is worse than the stuff coming out of Japan nowadays

ENGLAND – ah, the ‘mother country’ Well if she’s ‘mother country’ I’m running away from home. Always get into the later stages because they’ve got a big TV audience so the powers that be can’t have them going out early. Conspiracy theory ? No FACT – end of. Boring, forward orientated ‘anti-rugby’ Who the hell wants to watch that, except the English ? Back in Black give me a break

WALES – victims of incest after being raped by the ‘mother country’. Now slowly finding the self-confidence to run away from ‘home’ With the quiet, introverted former Waikato and All Black hooker at the helm and their unique (well apart from Saracens in the HEC against Leinster at Wem-ber-ly) “ To the left, to the right, set it up, set it up , it’s alright” genius strategy, who can doubt that they’ll deliver big style at this RWC and push the Welwitschias all the way and maybe even sneek a win

Superb, Pete

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Because we can on the odd occasion beat the SH big three both home and away!

Which I believe means we can challenge for the Webb Ellis cup.

Aw of course. Hey my memory's a wee bit rusty say would you just give me a run down of England's and France's home and away record against the SH teams since the last WC. I honestly didn't realise they were so healthy. Cheers!

I'm sure you could find that info on the web Rodders,

PenfroPete wrote:Been thinking a lot about prospects of the 4 ‘Home’ side sin the RWC (did you know I'm going by the way ) So

IRELAND - total gash. 1 Grand phooking Slam in a millennia and they think they’re the dogs bollix. “Oooh , but we win the HEC cup all the time”. Well. little secret here lads, you wouldn’t have won those Heineken Cups without some mighty WELSH support in those finals and semi-finals. Plus you dis’ the Magners by playing your academy sides all the time

SCOTLAND – where to start. Last decent player they had was Jim Renwick. Garbage – “but we always make the knock out phases”. Yeah, big phooking deal with Finland, Luxembourg and Vanuatu always in your pool. To be fair though you did have the Niue Islands in there once. Jeebus, even your much renowned (at least in your own minds) whiskey is worse than the stuff coming out of Japan nowadays

ENGLAND – ah, the ‘mother country’ Well if she’s ‘mother country’ I’m running away from home. Always get into the later stages because they’ve got a big TV audience so the powers that be can’t have them going out early. Conspiracy theory ? No FACT – end of. Boring, forward orientated ‘anti-rugby’ Who the hell wants to watch that, except the English ? Back in Black give me a break

WALES – victims of incest after being raped by the ‘mother country’. Now slowly finding the self-confidence to run away from ‘home’ With the quiet, introverted former Waikato and All Black hooker at the helm and their unique (well apart from Saracens in the HEC against Leinster at Wem-ber-ly) “ To the left, to the right, set it up, set it up , it’s alright” genius strategy, who can doubt that they’ll deliver big style at this RWC and push the Welwitschias all the way and maybe even sneek a win

Bravo Sir

Pembrokshire may have bent over for their English Lords and Masters, but I think you will find Carmarthenshire have given one to the girl next door (that's a metaphor for England for the hard of thinking) on more than one occasion!

Glas a du wrote: SOUTH Pembrokshire may have bent over for their English Lords and Masters, but I think you will find Carmarthenshire have given one to the girl next door on more than one occasion!

Just editing for accuracy Glas I'm from the NORTH

roddersm wrote:
Aw of course. Hey my memory's a wee bit rusty say would you just give me a run down of England's and France's home and away record against the SH teams since the last WC. I honestly didn't realise they were so healthy. Cheers!

England and France have both beaten a SH side away from home since the last RWC and England have beaten one at home. Could you give us a run down of Ireland's home and away record against the 3N teams since the last RWC.

PenfroPete wrote:

Glas a du wrote: SOUTH Pembrokshire may have bent over for their English Lords and Masters, but I think you will find Carmarthenshire have given one to the girl next door on more than one occasion!

Just editing for accuracy Glas I'm from the NORTH

Then you provided the condom with a pin hole in it.

I'm sure you could find that info on the web Nottins, or on a blank sheet of loo roll, or a used sheet!!!

BATH_BTGOG wrote:I'm sure you could find that info on the web Rodders,

I could but I think you might need to read it more than me.

roddersm wrote:

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Because we can on the odd occasion beat the SH big three both home and away!

Which I believe means we can challenge for the Webb Ellis cup.

Aw of course. Hey my memory's a wee bit rusty say would you just give me a run down of England's and France's home and away record against the SH teams since the last WC. I honestly didn't realise they were so healthy. Cheers!

One a piece from what I remember, the difference being France beat a very good and experienced Kiwi side in New Zealand and England beat an Australian team missing a front row and a back line with an average age of about 23 and about 20 caps between them.

They still won in the SH which has to be applauded.

PenfroPete wrote:Been thinking a lot about prospects of the 4 ‘Home’ side in the RWC (did you know I'm going by the way ) So

IRELAND - total gash. 1 Grand phooking Slam in a millennia and they think they’re the dogs bollix. “Oooh , but we win the HEC cup all the time”. Well. little secret here lads, you wouldn’t have won those Heineken Cups without some mighty WELSH support in those finals and semi-finals. Plus you dis’ the Magners by playing your academy sides all the time

SCOTLAND – where to start. Last decent player they had was Jim Renwick. Garbage – “but we always make the knock out phases”. Yeah, big phooking deal with Finland, Luxembourg and Vanuatu always in your pool. To be fair though you did have the Niue Islands in there once. Jeebus, even your much renowned (at least in your own minds) whiskey is worse than the stuff coming out of Japan nowadays

ENGLAND – ah, the ‘mother country’ Well if she’s ‘mother country’ I’m running away from home. Always get into the later stages because they’ve got a big TV audience so the powers that be can’t have them going out early. Conspiracy theory ? No FACT – end of. Boring, forward orientated ‘anti-rugby’ Who the hell wants to watch that, except the English ? Back in Black give me a break

WALES – victims of incest after being raped by the ‘mother country’. Now slowly finding the self-confidence to run away from ‘home’ With the quiet, introverted former Waikato and All Black hooker at the helm and their unique (well apart from Saracens in the HEC against Leinster at Wem-ber-ly) “ To the left, to the right, set it up, set it up , it’s alright” genius strategy, who can doubt that they’ll deliver big style at this RWC and push the Welwitschias all the way and maybe even sneek a win

So how long as Cardiff been the capital?!

BATH_BTGOG wrote:I'm sure you could find that info on the web Nottins, or on a blank sheet of loo roll.

Well if then the sheet of loo roll wouldn't be blank then would it?

nottins here's Irelands record:

Vs Australia

H 1 Draw
A 2 defeats

v SA

H 1 Victory, 1 Defeat
A N/A

v NZ

H 2 defeats
A 2 defeats

So thats 1 victory 1 draw and 6 defeats.

Here's Englands:

Vs Australia

H 1 Victory, 2 Defeat
A 1 victory ,1 defeat

v SA

H 2 Defeat
A 1 Defeat

v NZ

H 3 defeats
A 3 defeats

So thats 2 victories and 9 defeats.

So England in 11 meetings since the last WC England have managed 2 victories vs Ireland's 1 and 1 draw in 8 meetings.

Thats not really a the massive difference I was expecting between a "genuine WC contender" and a team that is there to "make up the numbers"? Maybe I've missed something Bath?

RODDERS & NOTTINS (and no I can't be ar$ed getting the Frennch stats up - go to LINK)
IRELAND AGAINST THE TRI-NATIONS SINCE RWC 2007
AWAY – Played 4 lost 4
Australia twice. 2 losses 18-12, 22-12
New Zealand twice,. 2 losses 21-11, 66-28
South Africa – no games
HOME Played 5, Won 1, drawn 1 lost 3
Australia once. Draw 20-20
New Zealand twice. 2 losses 3-22, 18- 38
South Africa twice 1 win 15-10, 1 loss 21-23

ENGLAND AGAINST THE TRI-NATIONS SINCE RWC 2007
AWAY Played 4. Won 1 lost 3
Australia twice. 1 win 20-21, 1 loss 27-17
New Zealand twice. 2 losses 37-20, 44-12
South Africa – no games
HOME Played 8 Won 1 Lost 7
Australia 3 times. Lost twice 14-28, 8-18, Won once 35-18
New Zealand 3 times. 3 losses 6-32, 6-19, 16-26
South Africa twice, 2 losses 6-42, 11-21

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote: So how long as Cardiff been the capital?!

Memory playing tricks on you auld fella ? You were around, you were 42 then I wasn't even born

PenfroPete wrote:
ENGLAND AGAINST THE TRI-NATIONS SINCE RWC 2007
AWAY Played 4. Won 1 lost 32

Crikey that's some achievement, even for a side in decline.

roddersm wrote:

BATH_BTGOG wrote:I'm sure you could find that info on the web Nottins, or on a blank sheet of loo roll.

Well if then the sheet of loo roll wouldn't be blank then would it?

nottins here's Irelands record:

Vs Australia

H 1 Draw
A 2 defeats

v SA

H 1 Victory, 1 Defeat
A N/A

v NZ

H 2 defeats
A 2 defeats

So thats 1 victory 1 draw and 6 defeats.

Here's Englands:

Vs Australia

H 1 Victory, 2 Defeat
A 1 victory ,1 defeat

v SA

H 2 Defeat
A 1 Defeat

v NZ

H 3 defeats
A 3 defeats

So thats 2 victories and 9 defeats.

So England in 11 meetings since the last WC England have managed 2 victories vs Ireland's 1 and 1 draw in 8 meetings.

Thats not really a the massive difference I was expecting between a "genuine WC contender" and a team that is there to "make up the numbers"? Maybe I've missed something Bath?

Should have been 4-1 to Australia since the last RWC... thanks to Gits - he makes you look more respectable than you deserve!
Anyway, he's gone now and hopefully we'll kick goals from 30m out.

New Zealand - France - Australia - Ireland ... just for something different.

The Irish appear to be on the upswing, like Australia. Whilst I think England are on the wane and appear flatter than recent years.

roddersm wrote:
Thats not really a the massive difference I was expecting between a "genuine WC contender" and a team that is there to "make up the numbers"? Maybe I've missed something Bath?

I actually knew what the records are. Ireland can't beat a SH team away from home but France and England can and do.

Linebreaker wrote:
The Irish appear to be on the upswing, like Australia. Whilst I think England are on the wane and appear flatter than recent years.

I actually think England are on the upswing, hence their 2 victories were in the past year.

However I don't think 2 victories in 10 against SH opposition is enough for English fans to be condescending and smug to fans of other nations.

I certainly don't consider Ireland to be "genuine WC cup contenders" but I don't think our record against SH opposition in recent seasons is as inferior to England's and France's as some people are making out.

There's no elusive away victory but our home record is better than England's and most of the defeats have been marginal enough,both home and away. The only exceptions being a couple of thrashings by the AB's.

Linebreaker wrote:

Should have been 4-1 to Australia since the last RWC... thanks to Gits - he makes you look more respectable than you deserve!
Anyway, he's gone now and hopefully we'll kick goals from 30m out.

New Zealand - France - Australia - Ireland ... just for something different.

The Irish appear to be on the upswing, like Australia. Whilst I think England are on the wane and appear flatter than recent years.

I'm note sure how finishing lower down the 6N in consecutive years make Ireland appear to be on the upswing.

In 2009 the lost 0 games, in 2010 they lost 6 out of 11, in 2011 they've lost 2 out of 5. Surely that is not record of a side on the upswing ?

Don't get too carried away nottins... you've only beaten us thrice... the first time ever being in 2003 at Docklands.

We have beaten England 14 times in the SH.

nottins wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

Should have been 4-1 to Australia since the last RWC... thanks to Gits - he makes you look more respectable than you deserve!
Anyway, he's gone now and hopefully we'll kick goals from 30m out.

New Zealand - France - Australia - Ireland ... just for something different.

The Irish appear to be on the upswing, like Australia. Whilst I think England are on the wane and appear flatter than recent years.

I'm note sure how finishing lower down the 6N in consecutive years make Ireland appear to be on the upswing.

In 2009 the lost 0 games, in 2010 they lost 6 out of 11, in 2011 they've lost 2 out of 5. Surely that is not record of a side on the upswing ?

They completely smashed England 24-8 recently... so yes, it could be said they are on the upswing. Have you forgotten already?

Never write England off.

Even if they do crash out, that will allow Barnes to ref the final and the Llundain-centric media to speak of English involvement

nottins wrote:
In 2009 the lost 0 games, in 2010 they lost 6 out of 11, in 2011 they've lost 2 out of 5. Surely that is not record of a side on the upswing ?

Well my maths isn't great but isn't 2 losses from 5 better than 6 in 11?

I agree with Nottins, it’s that simple.

It was unfair to say that Ireland and Wales are there to make up the numbers, as I'm sure they can play better than there history of 100 odd years of defeats against the SH big guns can be put right over the next two or so months!!!!!

It would have to be one hell of a run of victories for these guys to make the final.

Jeebus! Is this still going?

Even the mods are joining in now Who mods the mods when they get outline of line? Hmmm

Out of line?

Glas' comment was funnier.

Linebreaker wrote:Don't get too carried away nottins... you've only beaten us thrice... the first time ever being in 2003 at Docklands.

We have beaten England 14 times in the SH.

Errm, who's getting carried away ? I just stated the facts. The point being that France and England do win away in the SH, whereas Ireland don't

roddersm wrote:

nottins wrote:
In 2009 the lost 0 games, in 2010 they lost 6 out of 11, in 2011 they've lost 2 out of 5. Surely that is not record of a side on the upswing ?

Well my maths isn't great but isn't 2 losses from 5 better than 6 in 11?

It's still worse than 2009.

Linebreaker wrote:Glas' comment was funnier.

It was very much out of the greyghost jokebook.

Linebreaker wrote:

They completely smashed England 24-8 recently... so yes, it could be said they are on the upswing. Have you forgotten already?

Not forgotten it at all. England let them win as they had already won the 6N and they knew Ireland needed a bit of confidence after playing poorly in their previous 4 games.

From further up this thread and not by me, "I just feel that Ireland as a team have had a poor season by your standards and even you must admit could have done better. It's based on that theory that I can't understand where the confidence is coming from. I mean no offense, just trying to figure out why you guys have such unwavering confidence in your team"

nottins wrote:

roddersm wrote:
Thats not really a the massive difference I was expecting between a "genuine WC contender" and a team that is there to "make up the numbers"? Maybe I've missed something Bath?

I actually knew what the records are. Ireland can't beat a SH team away from home but France and England can and do.

I was referring to the 'England can and do' part, nottins. You make it sound like a regular occurrence! Which it ain't.

nottins wrote:

roddersm wrote:
Thats not really a the massive difference I was expecting between a "genuine WC contender" and a team that is there to "make up the numbers"? Maybe I've missed something Bath?

I actually knew what the records are. Ireland can't beat a SH team away from home but France and England can and do.

Well if I was to use that same deterministic logic i could say that England can't beat SA or NZ home or away which would mean they couldn't really be considered WC contenders either.

Or maybe I'm just missing something. Can you just take me through the hypothesis of how you predict England are capable of winning the WC but Ireland aren't capable of reach a SF?

We've already looked a past performance as a means of predicting future WC performance. Not much joy there.

IRB rankings don't seem to hold much sway with England fans, despite no one out of the top 3 ever winning. The significance to which English fans apply to IRB rankings does seem however to be directly proportional to how high England are ranked though, but thats another story.

6N performance seems to be irrelevent too.

I really am stumped here.

I see rodders is generalising about English fans. Again.

How "disrespectful" of him

Oh, so England "let them win" - a bit like Australia in 2003. Fair enough.

The game was dying you know...

nottins wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

They completely smashed England 24-8 recently... so yes, it could be said they are on the upswing. Have you forgotten already?

Not forgotten it at all. England let them win as they had already won the 6N and they knew Ireland needed a bit of confidence after playing poorly in their previous 4 games.

Thats jolly nice of you chap's nottins. Much appreciated. But hey don't you think England should have shared their altruistic little plan to help boost Ireland' confidence with their main sponsor? It would have saved Nike the trouble of having to re edit that video.

I really am stumped here.

TIME TO MOVE ON THEN!

Linebreaker wrote:

I was referring to the 'England can and do' part, nottins. You make it sound like a regular occurrence! Which it ain't.

England have beaten Australia the last two times they've played them, that would appear to be regular a occurrence to me.

roddersm wrote:

nottins wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

They completely smashed England 24-8 recently... so yes, it could be said they are on the upswing. Have you forgotten already?

Not forgotten it at all. England let them win as they had already won the 6N and they knew Ireland needed a bit of confidence after playing poorly in their previous 4 games.

Thats jolly nice of you chap's nottins. Much appreciated. But hey don't you think England should have shared their altruistic little plan to help boost Ireland' confidence with their main sponsor? It would have saved Nike the trouble of having to re edit that video.

I know, it was good of them.

Here, here. Stop this internecine bickering at once, you are like a herd of naughty children, rugby will be the loser and then where will we all be, crying over spilt milk till the cows come home to count their chickens, that's where, and don't say I didn't warn you, don't come running home to me with a broken leg...

Just out of interest, since the last world cup Neither of England, Scotland or Ireland has travelled to SA.

Wales played 2 away tests and France 1.

We played in europe 11 tests.

Obviously the British and Irish Lions were in SA for 3 tests.