Englands starting 15 in Cardiff

Who would like to see next week that did not play this week?

For England i would like to see Hape in stead of Flutey,Flutey did not have the best of games this week so would give Hape and Tualaghi a go.

With Moody injured would like to see Robshaw be given a chance. Cole in for Corbisero,Lawes for Shaw. If fit would give Youngs and Flood a go....Ashton and Foden.

For Wales? Wales do need in my opinion a different front row altogether. In the backs Priestland played well today and should be given another go next week,Half penny (if fit) ahould be given a chance with North on the bench, North played realy well today but will he be first choice for the RWC?

Henson will he play next week along side of Roberts? Ryan Jones did well when he came on, give him a chance at 8.

Second row is a big problem for Wales in terms of who is their best 2 players. Not sure Alun Wyn and Bradley Davies are Wales first choice pairing.

What is your thoughts on who will play and who will be dropped on todays performance.

What's the story on Courtney Lawes? If Jonno has a real ambition of laying England's dreadful recent Irish hoodoo to rest then the team for Wales in Cardiff needs to be more first xv than not.

England:
15) Foden;
14) Ashton,
13) Tindall,
12) Hape,
11) Cueto;
10) Flood,
9) Youngs;
1) Sheridan,
2) Hartley,
3) Cole,
4) Deacon,
5) Palmer,
6) Wood,
7) Haskell,
8) Easter.

Replacements:
Wilkinson
Care
Wilson
Thompson
Shaw
Worsley
Banahan

That's the team that beat Wales in the 6 Nations why change something that isn't broken?

That's also the team that got mauled by Ireland - it might not be broken but it's got a few chips after that game

For Wales Stoddarts injury means we need to have another look at Brew, espescially if Halfpennys injury is a worry. Completly different front row with Burns getting a start and Id like to see Charteris come in with Bradley in the second row.

Faletau did well enough today but showed a little bit of inexperience a couple of times. I think Delve has a bit more power and rugby nous so would like to see him come into teh backrow.

I would keep Phillips as a starter but bring Hook to outsdide half. would like to see Lloyd Williams come on at some point

Henson and Roberts in the centre. Really pleased to see Roberts play well today.

Byrne at full back

Shane to be rested and North and Brew to provide us with a couple of monster wingers

I would go for

Jenkins Rees/Burns Jones
Charterris R Jones
Lydiate Delve Warburton

Knoyle
Hook

Brew
Henson (Has to play if Gats serious about taking him)
Roberts
North

Byrne/Halfpenny

1.Jenkins
2.Rees/Burns
3.Adam Jones
4.Ryan Jones
5.Charteris
6.Lydiate
7.Warburton
8.Delve

9.Phillips
10.Jones/Hook
11.Brew
12.Davies
13.Scott Williams
14.North
15.Byrne/Priestland

16.Burns/Bennett
17.Bevington
18.AW Jones
19.Faletau
20.Lloyd Williams
21.Jones/Hook
22.Roberts

Chris,

Think Halfpenny needs game time if fit and if he is serious about taking Henson then likewise.

Henson has no place in this squad in my opinion.

Chris,

A lot of people are of the same opinion but he's there and if Gatland is serious about taking him then he needs game time.

That said I am surprised he wasn't involved yesterday so maybe he's not doing what Gatland hoped he would do.

The Lord Baron Edwood wrote:What's the story on Courtney Lawes? If Jonno has a real ambition of laying England's dreadful recent Irish hoodoo to rest then the team for Wales in Cardiff needs to be more first xv than not.

I've heard that it's been reported that England aim to play their best XV against Ireland. Anyone who played their way into being first choice yesterday probably wont therefore play at the MS, but will be saved for Ireland. I agree Lawes has to play. I think whether one of Robshaw or Fourie start next weekend will be down to how Moody's injury is looking. Hape and Tindall will probably start, and then we need to wait to see who he selects as his first choice partnership in Dublin. For what it's worth, my current first choice team would be:

1. Sheridan
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Palmer
6. Croft
7. Robshaw (Obviously as a Quins fan I'm more inclined to like him, but I think he'd play well with Croft, and I think the back row needs one carrier like him)
8. Haskell

9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Banahan/Cueto
12. Hape/Banahan (I'd be interested in seeing whether Banahan's distribution is up to playing 12 at international level)
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

Before the match I was thinking that we would see wholesale changes before next week's match, but now I'm not so sure. This is what I'd pick for the second game:

1. Corbisiero
2. Thompson
3. Stevens
4. Lawes
5. Deacon
6. Croft
7. Wood
8. Haskell

9. Care
10. Wilkinson (C)
11. Monye
12. Flutey
13. Tuilagi
14. Sharples
15. Armitage

16. Mears
17. Doran-Jones
18. Shaw
19. Robshaw
20. Simpson
21. Hodgson
22. Banahan

I would definitely look to give Sheridan, Cole, Easter, Youngs, Flood, Hape, Tindall, Ashton and Foden a start against Ireland, but I think we should stick with the same core of players for the second Wales game and look to build on the performance and hopefully pick up another win.

One thing that I think Johnno needs to have a look at is Youngs and Wilko as a half back pairing, and I wouldn't have Jonny anywhere near the captaincy. Let him just play and give the captaincy for the game to one of the younger players that we might be looking at as captain post World Cup.

Pete

I think Youngs is still injured till Ireland game? They do need a run of games together.

Think a back 3 of Sharples , Ashton and Foden could be on the cards for next week.

I'd mix it up again, to try and make sure everyone being given consideration for the plane to NZ has a start if possible. I'm going to assume Lawes and Youngs aren't over their injuries just yet, otherwise they'd replace Botha and Simpson in the starting line up

1. Sheridan
2. Thompson
3. Cole
4. Deacon
5. Botha
6. Wood
7. Fourie (I'd prefer Robshaw)
8. Easter

9. Simpson
10 Flood

11. Sharples
12. Hape.
13. Tindall
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Mears
17. Doran-Jones
18. Shaw
19. Robshaw
20. Wigglesworth
21. Hodgson
22. Moyne

then for the Ireland game it would be time to bring together the starting line up for the WC, injuries permitting.

I'd mix it up to try and see as many players as possible and get people's first game out the way so they can be fully ready for the irish game (ashton and co). Also you will never know if I player is in form and ready to step up unless you play them so why not give them a go.

1.Sheridan
2.Thompson
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Deacon
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Easter

9.Youngs/Simpson (if Youngs not fit)
10.Flood
11.Sharples
12.Hape
13.Tindall
14.Ashton
15.Foden

16.Mears
17.Doran-Jones
18.Botha
19.Fourie
20.Simpson/Wigglesworth
21.Flutey
22.Monye

I think banahan needs to move inside for bath....at international level his attributes are better suited to centre.
Where is Stevens best - TH or LH
Is Lawes injured still?

Id go:

1 Stevens
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Lawes (If Fit)
5 Palmer
6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Haskell

9 Young
10 Wilkinson
11 Sharples
12 Flutey
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

I'd go something like

1.Stevens
2.Thompson
3.Cole
4.Botha
5.Deacon
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Easter(c)

9.Wrigglesworth
10.Hodgson
11.Sharples
12.Flutey
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden


Hodgson needs his shot to prove he can offer something Flutey can't at 10.

Driver - RIP 606


I realy do like that team....I do agree with you about Hodgson, did not see the point of bringing him on just for 5 minutes to be honest.

I would like to see -

1.Sheridan
2.Thompson
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Deacon
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Easter

9.Care

10.Flood
11.Sharples
12.Hape
13.Tindall
14.Ashton
15.Foden

16.Hartley (for Tomo at 60mins)

17.Doran-Jones
18.Botha (on for Deacon at 60mins)
19.Fourie (for Robshaw 50mins)
20.Youngs (for Care 50mins)
21.Flutey (for Hape, want to see the Flutey-Tinds combo)
22.Monye



That is a seriously quick back 3 - polar opposite of last saturdays game.

England need a stronger pack if they intend on dealing with the return of Gethin and Jones.

I know there are mixed feelings - but I dont want Banerhan anywhere near my team. Just feel he isnt international class - need a winger with real gas, Sharples if he continues on from that 1 touch on saturday could be a good option.

How many changes will MJ make to the starting 15 on Saturday in Cardiff?

Does he start Sharples?
Does he move Banahan to centre?
Does he give Seridan a run out?
Will Flood start?
Does he rest Moody? (i would)
Foden to replace Armitage a FB?
Thompson to start?

Any other changes?

1.Sheridan
2.Thompson
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Lawes
6.Roshaw
7.Wood
8.Easter
9.Youngs (if fit, if not Wigglesworth)
10.Flood
11.Sharples
12.Hape
13.Tindall
14.Ashton
15.Foden

Bench; Mears, PDJ, Palmer, Croft, Simpson, Hodgson, Banahan

Got to give run outs to those who are fighting for places, harsh on Monye but I don't see him fitting in to how England are playing at the moment. Only risk with that team is the lack of kicking ability outside of 9 and 10.

Cheers!

That looks close to the preferred starting 15 to me...

It is about half way towards the preferred starting 15, as was the team that played on Saturday. Mix it up and get everyone playing.

Cole
Hartley
Stevens
Lawes
Palmer
Croft (Captain)
Wood
Easter
Care/Simpson/Youngs (really don't know who to try here, is Youngs even fit?)
Wilkinson
Monye
Flutey
Tindall/Tuilagi (again it's close and without seeing Tin's form i don't know)
Ashton
Foden

Bench:
PDJ
Thompson
Shaw
Robshaw
Youngs/Simpson/Care
Flood
Armitage/Tuilagi

That would be my team for what it's worth.

Not sure on the scrumhalf situation and the last bench spot is tough as i really want Tuilagi in there.

Otherwise I think it's our strongest pack going. I don't want to change too much except for the back 3, who to me produced pretty much nothing last week.

There are a number of articles discussing this topic so I am going to merge them to keep the discussion together.

Yappy....

Monye is an interesting call. Do you think he's done enough? I'm not convinced to be honest. That would seem a defensive pick for me.

I think Easter should get a go, although he would have to play outstandingly well to displace Haskell IMO.

I'd be tempted to bring Armitage into the centre...

Also interesting you done have Sheridan in there....I would agree with you there, but I think that MJ would pick him ahead of PDJ.

Sam, I think yours will more likely to be picked but i would like to see a similar backline playing with a stronger forward pack and see what they can create with a game under their belts and a few more danger/men in there.

Thinking about it, i kind of wish these 3 games had a more tour quality to them and as well as the 3 matches we had a couple of mid week games against club sides or something to try out the other players, otherwise there's not much point having such a big squad as it makes it impossile to play every one and get an idea of them.

Cabbage -

I would 2nd the Monye Selection - also offers another kicking option in the back 3.

Armitage could feature on the bench to cover multiple positions.

Would like Sharples to make a slightly longer appearance off the bench too (maybe after 60mins for Ashton as we know what he offers).



Should MJ give Tuilagi another go? Have we seen enough of him? I'm not sure if he would be ready to be thrown into the Irish game (thats a must win IMO for confidence).



Stevens on the Bench as Sherry needs a run.

It is difficult to predict what Johnno will do, but he stated publicly at one point that he wanted to have a look at everyone who is still in the squad. That being the case, there will have to be a reasonable amount of changes this week.

There are 7 props in the squad at present, Sheridan, Payne, Corbisiero, Stevens, Doran-Jones, Wilson and Cole.

If he wants to have a look at everyone, then I'd be surprised if we see Corbisiero and Stevens in the starting XV this week. I would expect Payne to start at loosehead with Sheridan getting the 1 shirt vs. Ireland, and either Wilson or PDJ starting at tighthead this week with the one who doesn't on the bench, leaving Cole to anchor the scrum in Dublin.

Flutey should be jettisoned now. He isn't good enough.

This team should start in my opinion.

1.Sheridan
2.Thompson
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Botha
6.Wood
7.Robshaw
8.Easter
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Sharples
12.Hape
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

16.PDJ
17.Mears
18.Deacon
19.Haskell
20.Wigglesworth
21.Hodgson
22.Banahan

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:Yappy....

Monye is an interesting call. Do you think he's done enough? I'm not convinced to be honest. That would seem a defensive pick for me.

I think Easter should get a go, although he would have to play outstandingly well to displace Haskell IMO.

I'd be tempted to bring Armitage into the centre...

Also interesting you done have Sheridan in there....I would agree with you there, but I think that MJ would pick him ahead of PDJ.

Cabbages, Monye was a like for like replacement for Cueto but i hope he can do what Cueto does better. He also adds more paice to the backline which means he needs to be watched closely, hopefully leaving more space for the centres. I picked him over Sharples, the only other fast option as he has more experience.
As all 3 Welsh tries were scored out wide by their wingers i think we definately need at least one defensive winger and Monye brings that.

Easter gets in there to help Croft at captain but he needs a big game, which he may have now he actually has competition, I'd be happy with Haskell starting though.

Please not Armitage at centre. Lets either bring in Tindall or play Tuilagi again, constant changing does nothing. And as much as he has played a handful of games there for LI he is not an out and out centre.

For me Sheridan has done nothing to get a game, he is the weakest of our propping options and injury prone. I wouldn't be taking him tot he WC.

beshocked wrote:Flutey should be jettisoned now. He isn't good enough.

To be honest from what you said before the game nothing short of a MoM display would have kept Flutey in there for you right?

I'd say that one match where he made no errors, passed well the few times he got the ball and defended well puts him on a par with Hape, and that one kick in the first half was better then anything Hape has ever done.

All said and done he really didn't get the ball enough to be judged, neither of our centres did.

yappysnap wrote:

beshocked wrote:Flutey should be jettisoned now. He isn't good enough.

To be honest from what you said before the game nothing short of a MoM display would have kept Flutey in there for you right?

I'd say that one match where he made no errors, passed well the few times he got the ball and defended well puts him on a par with Hape, and that one kick in the first half was better then anything Hape has ever done.

All said and done he really didn't get the ball enough to be judged, neither of our centres did.

Fair point Yappy - how about seeing the same combination of Flutey-Tuilagi operating outside Youngs-Flood? With Ashton-Foden-Monye in the back 3.

Tindall-Armitage-Sharples-Simpson on the bench could change the whole dynamic of the game

Flutey should be jettisoned now. He isn't good enough

Offered more in that game than Hape did in the 6N. Attacked and defended well, didn't get a lot of ball but unless Hape puts in a good performance on Saturday I think he will have been superseeded.

Think Deacon and Tindall need full games this week as well. Got to get them game time as they will be part of the squad. Think we can safely discount Botha following Shaw's excellent display and Botha's complete no show off of the bench. Otherwise I pretty much agree. Would like to see a little more of Wigglesworth, maybe him starting if Benny isn't fit as he played well after coming on for Care. Offered a better/quicker pass and a accurate boot to help stabilise the English performance.

propdavid_london wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

beshocked wrote:Flutey should be jettisoned now. He isn't good enough.

To be honest from what you said before the game nothing short of a MoM display would have kept Flutey in there for you right?

I'd say that one match where he made no errors, passed well the few times he got the ball and defended well puts him on a par with Hape, and that one kick in the first half was better then anything Hape has ever done.

All said and done he really didn't get the ball enough to be judged, neither of our centres did.

Fair point Yappy - how about seeing the same combination of Flutey-Tuilagi operating outside Youngs-Flood? With Ashton-Foden-Monye in the back 3.

Tindall-Armitage-Sharples-Simpson on the bench could change the whole dynamic of the game

if MJ picked that i'd have no complaints. I do want to see Simpson on the bench and get 20 mins, he could be a very good impact sub. Where would your 10 cover be on that bench?

yappysnap wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

beshocked wrote:Flutey should be jettisoned now. He isn't good enough.

To be honest from what you said before the game nothing short of a MoM display would have kept Flutey in there for you right?

I'd say that one match where he made no errors, passed well the few times he got the ball and defended well puts him on a par with Hape, and that one kick in the first half was better then anything Hape has ever done.

All said and done he really didn't get the ball enough to be judged, neither of our centres did.

Fair point Yappy - how about seeing the same combination of Flutey-Tuilagi operating outside Youngs-Flood? With Ashton-Foden-Monye in the back 3.

Tindall-Armitage-Sharples-Simpson on the bench could change the whole dynamic of the game

if MJ picked that i'd have no complaints. I do want to see Simpson on the bench and get 20 mins, he could be a very good impact sub. Where would your 10 cover be on that bench?

Flutey moves to 10, Tindall comes on - agreed its not ideal, but only emergency cover. If Armitage covers centers and back 3 you could afford to have Wilko on bench in the place of Tinds. But for the sake of this warm-up that bench could work.

Simpson needs test experience - more than Wigglesworth. Care has had a run, Youngs likely to start in Cardiff.

Yappysnap I would get rid of Hape too!

No I will happily admit I was wrong about Shaw and Armitage. They had good games. I won't let my opinions of players get in the way of giving a fair appraisal of their performances.

Sam you must have watched a different game to me.

In my opinion Flutey did little. It backed up what I said before the match. He is evidently an overrated player. Despite doing little he is praised to the heavens (exaggeration I know but you get the point). He attacked well? Did virtually nothing. Defended well? Partially to blame for Wales' first try.



Botha didn't do much admittedly but he had little game time. I know you are a big fan of Deacon. Hmmm I wonder why...

Tuilagi was average too but at least he scored a try. It was his debut too. He is only 20.

LDCPete wrote:It is difficult to predict what Johnno will do, but he stated publicly at one point that he wanted to have a look at everyone who is still in the squad. That being the case, there will have to be a reasonable amount of changes this week.

There are 7 props in the squad at present, Sheridan, Payne, Corbisiero, Stevens, Doran-Jones, Wilson and Cole.

If he wants to have a look at everyone, then I'd be surprised if we see Corbisiero and Stevens in the starting XV this week. I would expect Payne to start at loosehead with Sheridan getting the 1 shirt vs. Ireland, and either Wilson or PDJ starting at tighthead this week with the one who doesn't on the bench, leaving Cole to anchor the scrum in Dublin.

i've heard it said quite recently that he's been fairly open about the fact that not everyone is going to get a game in the warm-ups. They'll have already cut the squad to 30 by the time of the ireland game for a start.

I'm still disappointed by our options at inside centre and feel that at least one half of JW and TF at 10 and 12 would be useful to look at. I'd play JW at 10 in attack and 12 in defence and obviously Flood would be vice versa.

It has the potential to work, I'm not saying it definitely would, but with Flutey still looking out of touch and Hape being distinctly average (in my opinion) I would like to see it tried.

Assuming all are fit I expect a backline of Youngs Flood Hape Tindall Ashton Foden Monye

Botha didn't do much admittedly but he had little game time.

He had 20 minutes. Every other sub, including Hodgson, made more of an impact on the game then Botha did. England spent a good deal of time defending around the tight as well, I expected Botha to come into his own and really attack the breakdowns and make the big hits. Apart from concede a penalty the only other thing of note he did was drfit in allowing Warburton to run straight through a massive whole and provide Wales with a platform from which to score a try. Deacon needs game time to prove he is in decent enough shape to make the trip to RWC. He's not played since the Leinster game that was months ago.

Sam what did Flutey actually do that impressed you?

Defended well? Partially to blame for Wales' first try.

No he wasn't. He was covering across against an overlap when the outside man (Armitage) stepped in meaning that Flutey then had to travel even further to make the tackle. If Armitage had stayed on the outside then Flutey could have effected a tackle on Stoddart. Flutey had a solid game, could do with more creation and more pace when hitting the line but he did what was required. Supported the ten in defence and attack, distributed well and made his tackles. Out of those selected he is now favourite to be playing at 12.

Have to day I was disappointed with Flutey, he didn't do a great deal in my opinion.

I'm surprised that people arent being more critical of Banahan!



Flutey - well, he didnt deliver the form that we hoped he had re-gained. However, there was nothing drastically wrong and lets face it. Hape hasnt set the world alight with his performances either in the 12 shirt.

I agree with Sam, it was Armitage stepping in and not covering the outside man that was responsible for that Welsh try. Those instinctive decisions hopefully sort themselves out when you have a team that knows eachother inside out.



And, addressing another earlier point made above re:Botha. I didnt think it was Botha comming up that made the space for Warburtons burst to the line - looked like Tuilagi (need another look though).

propdavid london two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Hape has been a poor 12 doesn't mean it is alright for Flutey to be a poor 12 too.

Nothing drastically wrong?!

Flutey should have nailed his man.

Defended well? You mean the side that conceded 3 tries?

More creation and pace? He had none.

Flutey didn't contribute to any of England's scores.

Flutey had an opportunity to show he can still cut it at international level. He evidently can't.

God help us all if Flutey has enhanced his chances of starting at no 12 with that shocking performance!

He was supposedly going to be the messiah in the midfield, he ain't. MJ took a gamble and failed.

And, addressing another earlier point made above re:Botha. I didnt think it was Botha comming up that made the space for Warburtons burst to the line - looked like Tuilagi (need another look though)..

Tuilagi had been subbed by then. Botha comes out and to veers to the left as it looks like they'll be a breakdown, the pass is made and Warburton steams past through the hole Botha should have been in and past two flailing cover tackles. Armitage drags him down just short of the line.

Flutey should have nailed his man.

and would have done if Armitage hadn't stepped in. Then Flutey was left trying to catch Armitage's man who had space, a head of steam and only 5m to the try line. Any international winger worth their salt would have scored that and North is a decent young winger he wasn't going to be caught by the cover tackle.

Defended well? You mean the side that conceded 3 tries?

None of which came through the 12 channel, all of which came out wide. There were reasons for this, such as the incompetent Ozzie ref allowing the attacking sides to flop down on top of the ball to stop competition at the breakdown allowing in this instance Wales to build phases and slowly make the over laps.

beshocked - you are correct, 2wrongs dont make a right. Only, its the first game of what has the pre-season feel.

I didnt say Flutey defended well - only that he couldnt be held accountable for that try, where Armitage was the man who made the mistake (dispite him being praised for his match performance).

Flutey didnt have a shocking performance - dont be so dramatic. There are 2 games left to tweak selections. I am sure that Flutey is still 2nd fiddle to Hape when the 1st team is selected (presumably against Ireland).

I would like to see Flutey-Tuilagi combine together again in Cardiff. With another center on the bench (Tindall or Hape to come on).



Who said Flutey was teh messiah - I thought all the hype was heaped on the young Tuilagi.

beshocked wrote:propdavid london two wrongs don't make a right. Just because Hape has been a poor 12 doesn't mean it is alright for Flutey to be a poor 12 too.

Nothing drastically wrong?!

Flutey should have nailed his man.

Defended well? You mean the side that conceded 3 tries?

More creation and pace? He had none.

Flutey didn't contribute to any of England's scores.

Flutey had an opportunity to show he can still cut it at international level. He evidently can't.

God help us all if Flutey has enhanced his chances of starting at no 12 with that shocking performance!

He was supposedly going to be the messiah in the midfield, he ain't. MJ took a gamble and failed.

I would say that's a bit over the top. he may not be the best inside centre around (on the back of one average performance in his first international start in 2 years in a scratch team that haven't played in 2 months) but he's better then any of the other 12 choices.

Beshocked what did you think of Andy Robinsons style of coaching for England?