Englands starting 15 in Cardiff

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Who would like to see next week that did not play this week?

For England i would like to see Hape in stead of Flutey,Flutey did not have the best of games this week so would give Hape and Tualaghi a go.

With Moody injured would like to see Robshaw be given a chance. Cole in for Corbisero,Lawes for Shaw. If fit would give Youngs and Flood a go....Ashton and Foden.

For Wales? Wales do need in my opinion a different front row altogether. In the backs Priestland played well today and should be given another go next week,Half penny (if fit) ahould be given a chance with North on the bench, North played realy well today but will he be first choice for the RWC?

Henson will he play next week along side of Roberts? Ryan Jones did well when he came on, give him a chance at 8.

Second row is a big problem for Wales in terms of who is their best 2 players. Not sure Alun Wyn and Bradley Davies are Wales first choice pairing.

What is your thoughts on who will play and who will be dropped on todays performance.

Tuilagi had been subbed by then. Botha comes out and to veers to the left as it looks like they'll be a breakdown, the pass is made and Warburton steams past through the hole Botha should have been in and past two flailing cover tackles. Armitage drags him down just short of the line.


- Cheers Sam, my mistake - that was a great covering tackle from Armitage.

So, Banahan had moved into the centers at that point.

So, Banahan had moved into the centers at that point..

Apparently, seemed he disapeared after moving into the centres, on the wing he did at least support the runners inside him. Needs to come off his wing and offer a bit more to the half backs though.

that was a great covering tackle from Armitage.

It was, he had an impressive game (mistake for the first try apart). Really did vindicate Johnno's faith in him.

propdavid london as I keep saying Flutey has done FA for 2 years. More of the same from the overrated Kiwi on Saturday.

Shocking is an exaggeration it was poor. He was supposedly meant to fix the midfield problems. That is what people on these forums have been saying. He did little of note to suggest he will.

If Flutey was a decent defender he would have nailed his man.

I am highly critical of him because people were/are staunchly supporting him. He has done little to show he deserves his place.

Hape or Flutey? Highly depressing. Two overrated Kiwis vying for the England no 12 shirt.

Flutey offered little to no creativity in attack which he was supposedly meant to give. He didn't do his job.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]

And, addressing another earlier point made above re:Botha. I didnt think it was Botha comming up that made the space for Warburtons burst to the line - looked like Tuilagi (need another look though)..

Tuilagi had been subbed by then. Botha comes out and to veers to the left as it looks like they'll be a breakdown, the pass is made and Warburton steams past through the hole Botha should have been in and past two flailing cover tackles. Armitage drags him down just short of the line.

quote]

Wasn't that Haskell with the scrum cap on that got stepped?

Really frustates me when certain people can't admit they got it wrong.

I was wrong about Armitage and Shaw but definitely not about Flutey.

I understand the frustration with Flutey (we'd all prefer Allen and Barritt in the side) but his performance was better than what has been offered by the other IC in the squad and was solid but not spectacular.

I think the trouble is that Flutey played no better or worse than most would have expected of Hape. As they are our two named inside centres in the squad it's hard to be massively critical of Flutey when there is no better option. Most of us agree that Barritt/Allen should've been in the squad. Because they're not, I think we could give Flutey one more half against Wales and then also try the Wilkinson - Flood 10 - 12 option for a half as well. No point playing Hape there in the next game in my eyes, we all know what he can and can't do. 12 is so obviously our "bogey" position, everywhere else we have options with pros and cons, at 12 we have two uninspiring (at the moment) players.

Sam we'll have to agree to disagree. I do agree that better options have been left at home.

True screaming abbs. I just get frustated as I rate neither Flutey or Hape. Doesn't help that neither are remotely English.

I don't think Englands team needs changing much, apart from 7. The back-row was good. Why not bring a strong bench and allow them to transition back into the team slowly so they're hopefully ready for Ireland and 'peaking' for the world cup. I can't comment on the centre's, I'm unsure of your best combo. Would Johnno consider Wilko, Flood, Tuilagi or is Roberts too big for his opposite number?

That's what I'd do with the Wales team btw. Only make the changes in the backs, i:e 10 and 15 cover. Then unleash a strong bench in the 2nd half which will hopefully have the likes of Jenkins, Jones, Rees, Hook, Brew, Delve(needs an opportunity).

nottins_jones wrote:I don't think Englands team needs changing much, apart from 7. The back-row was good. Why not bring a strong bench and allow them to transition back into the team slowly so they're hopefully ready for Ireland and 'peaking' for the world cup. I can't comment on the centre's, I'm unsure of your best combo. Would Johnno consider Wilko, Flood, Tuilagi or is Roberts too big for his opposite number?

That's what I'd do with the Wales team btw. Only make the changes in the backs, i:e 10 and 15 cover. Then unleash a strong bench in the 2nd half which will hopefully have the likes of Jenkins, Jones, Rees, Hook, Brew, Delve(needs an opportunity).

Simply play JW at 12 in defence. Not the biggest man, but I doubt Roberts would be filled with joy seeing him opposite him...

BTW, I doubt Johnson will play Flood and Wilkinson on the same pitch at the same time, I'd just like him to try it and see if there is milage in it. I'm not saying it definitely would work but I see no harm in trying it.

Neither Flood or Wilko are poor in defence, both make their tackles though Wilko is the only one likely to smash a much bigger player. Flood will tackle on the gainline but won't drive them back.

yappysnap OTT sums me up. I can get like that. Being as good as Hape is hardly an impressive endorsement of Flutey's talents. Anyway I think you all know what I think about Hape and Flutey!!!

Backrow balance is a big problem. The English no 8s are no match for other nation.

screamingddabs personally I have never been a big fan of playing people out of position. I am not going to change my viewpoint.

I always thought Flood was poor in defence. I suppose Flood and Wilko would be a good combo but then who would be back up fly-halves? Thought you were all Hodgson haters.

Normally I'd not play people out of position either, but Flood has played 12 quite a lot in the past (including international starts there) and by your own admission Flutey and Hape don't really cut it. Given that no one new can be brought into the squad, what would you do?

Backrow balance is a big problem. The English no 8s are no match for other nation.

I think the large problem is England have no devious ball stealing option. The Aussies have Pocock, NZ have McCaw, Saffas have Brussow, Ireland have Jennings and Wallace, Wales have Williams etc. We have no sticky fingered openside who will be on the ball before the ruck is full formed and have it away before the opposition scrummy has time to moan to the ref. Looks like these pirates of the ruck are going to be even more valuable what with the SH refs allowing players to flop over the ball in attack and virtually destroy any possible counter rucking option.

The only ball stealing annoyance England had is sadly off in France at this point ruling himself out of selection.

I always thought Flood was poor in defence. I suppose Flood and Wilko would be a good combo but then who would be back up fly-halves?

Flood is reliable but nothing special in defence, makes his tackles but won't smash anything. Cockerill has a real dislike of players who miss tackles. Just look at Amorosino, Tigers most inventive back three option was given no game time due to his frailties in defence. Varndell was booted out promptly for this reason as well. No commitment in defence, no chance in the Tigers first team.

Each would be the others back up fly half with Hape or Flutey the back up centre. Alternatively I have no problem with hodgson if he can play at international level to the same standard as club rugby. We're out of games to test him now though...

screamingaddabs wrote:
Simply play JW at 12 in defence. Not the biggest man, but I doubt Roberts would be filled with joy seeing him opposite him...

Good points. Jonny was joint highest tackler alongside Lydiate with 12 tackles on Saturday.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Botha didn't do much admittedly but he had little game time.

He had 20 minutes. Every other sub, including Hodgson, made more of an impact on the game then Botha did. England spent a good deal of time defending around the tight as well, I expected Botha to come into his own and really attack the breakdowns and make the big hits. Apart from concede a penalty the only other thing of note he did was drfit in allowing Warburton to run straight through a massive whole and provide Wales with a platform from which to score a try. Deacon needs game time to prove he is in decent enough shape to make the trip to RWC. He's not played since the Leinster game that was months ago.

I specifically watched Botha when he came on, he looked laboured when he ran, or should I say jogged. He never hit one ruck with any intensity. I think Johnson is wasting his time with this guy.

Agree Biltong, bar one penalty which did seem harsh to me i never even noticed him.

I think Moody and Shaw leaving the field had a big impact on the forwards.

propdavid_london wrote:Who said Flutey was teh messiah - I thought all the hype was heaped on the young Tuilagi.

Saying I understand why Flutey was picked and pointing out that picking Barritt would have been as big a gamble was apparently lauding Flutey as the messiah.

Robbo I am sure you and others were hoping Flutey would fix the midfield problems. Wishing for the 2009 Flutey model isn't going to make him appear. Evidently he hasn't. Picking Anthony Allen would have been preferable to Flutey.

Indeed I am sure you have talked about Flutey's past form, unfortunately that's long in the past. MJ's gamble has failed. He is now stuck with two distinctly average 12s who haven't shown good form.

sharples needs to get a start alongside ashton and foden to really show what he can do. No more of this 2nd row banahan or old man cueto.

SAturday's team MUST be the test team- a win in Wales and especially a win in Dublin are vital.