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Bath RFC	InTheFastLane
Exeter Chiefs	Driver - RIP 606
Gloucester	Anonmattyt
Harlequins	Steven_Sharks
Leicester Tigers	LukeLovesLuka
London Irish	stnick88
London Wasps	Arry
Newcastle Falcons	Sgt_Pooly
Northampton Saints	Dammit_Chris
Sale Sharks	SirJohnnyEnglish
Saracens	LDCPete
Worcester Warriors	prop_lyd

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Waiting List
1. Sam
2. pullthestrings
3. Bathite

Adam Jones in will help sure up the scrum for the welsh but would have prefered to have seen 10 Priestland 12 Hook 13 Roberts or even Jones at 10 12 Hook 13 Roberts and 15 Priestland.

Good chance for Knoyle to show what he can offer as a starter.

SA scrum could be in for a tough afternoon but I really like that backrow, should be a good game.

What do you mean about the French back 3 and rain Matt?

I dont fancy the french back 3 defensively at all pooly. Heymans, Medard or palisson not really inspiring.

Every time i see Heyman in poor conditions he goes walkabout. Same with Medard

Heymans still one of the best finishers in the world. Does seem odd to put him at full back.

Played a fair bit of T14 at FB Steve, got better as the season went along.

Never seen Medard as a poor defender, he's no rock but punches above his weight and has a great boot. Maybe when he burst on the scene he suffered a bit but he's came on leaps over the last season or so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14546077.stm

Wales biggest asset there scrum looks in trouble now. Can see them getting the early plane back again.

To be fair Matt Jenkins isnt a massive scrummager. Hes the type of LH that looks to gain some kind of parity. Would rate James as the better scrummager. If Jones were to get a knock then Wales are screwed!

Jones has suffered massivley with form this season, one of the best when in nick though. Not sure he's going to have the impact Wales are hoping.

Cole smashed James on Saturday, great to see him back and firing!

The thing is that front row is used to playing together as a unit which is what make them so effective.

Big problems for Wales.

guys saw an interesting comment by Will Greenwood today in the papers saying that he reckons Flood should play 12 for England and that could reshape our whole midfield.

He thinks we are a very good team, which has a lot of power in the forwards and should when Ashton and Foden play together be able to unlock defences.

Is he better than having Hape or Flutey?

Most of the rugby board here have been calling for Flood to go to 12 since the weekend. Not to sure if its the answer though. Didnt we try it before when Flood was first coming through as an international?

Flood is a FH, why would MJ play him at 12? He's played about 40mins there in 3 years.

Its easy to go from 10-12 (not the other way round). There isnt a great deal of difference in terms of defensive duties for a 10/12 and positional sense is pretty similar. Personally I dont think it matters if he hasnt played there in 3 years.

Playing next to Wilko again could be a blessing in disguise for him, in that Flood struggles when he has to make decisions and if things arent going right for him. Wilko is the opposite, most assured and confident 10 in Europe, he would free Flood to play his natural game and take decision making off his shoulders. Would also be the creative link in our backline.

Possibly more important still is that it would free up an additional place on our bench for another impact player as we wouldnt need 10 cover.

Anyone heard if Wigglesworth will be fit for the WC?

Its not as easy as people think to shift from 10 to 12. Just ask Shane Geraghty whom just 2 years ago everyone thought would make a cracking 12 at international level...

We would definately need 3 specialist FH's though at the world cup then. if one of Flood or Wilko got injured we would be left seriously short and im not to sure Johnno wants to bring 3 anyway

I agree in principle 10/12 are pretty similar but Flood just doesn't play there and 1 game before the World cup starts isn't really the ideal time to start tinkering.

I'm a fan of playing players in the position they're used to. Flutey or Hape at 12 until post WC imo

Far to late to change things round for me.

I personally cannot believe the rubbish that has been spouted after one defeat I think its embarrassing. Every man woman and child who follows rugby seems to want wholesale changes. We have to stick to what we have seen work unless somebody really sticks there hand up (which has yet to happen in these warm up games).

Toby Flood was a game away from being a Grand Slam winning fly half just as Hape was to be a 12 in a Grand slam winning team and after one defeat in what is probably the most intense atmosphere an Englishmen can play in (regardless of the strength of the Welsh team), it is now essential they are both dropped!! madness

SJE Geraghty just wasnt good enough to be an international 12 - is a very different player from Flood.

I've always thought of Flood as a 12 as opposed to a top class 10 - because I think he struggles in high pressure games when he wears the 10 shirt, makes wrong decisions and rushes things. He runs too much from 10 and his game is actually very well suited to international rugby in the 12 shirt.

I think the England team is very close to being a top, top team and just requires a little bit of tinkering to get it working - I would play Wilko at 10, then choose whether to stick with Hape or play Flood or Flutey. I would stick with Tindall for his experience but have Tuilagi on the bench as an impact player for last 20 minutes.

I wouldnt play Banahan until the England backs coaches buck up their ideas and use him the exact same way Bath do. I am really concerned with Brian Smith's performance (or lack of) and would potentially look at bringing someone like Mike Catt into the fold to offer something different to the coaching. He comes across as a very intelligent man when I've read articles written by him and could see him having a bit more influence on Johnson, as it appears as though Johnson wants to use big players across the pitch, which doesnt really work, as our midfield has no creativity.

Our midfield seems as though it is set up to stop teams scoring tries, as opposed to using ball generated by our forwards. Imagine if NZ or Aus had 70/80% ball against Wales, they'd have run in a cricket score!

Just as a heads up guys: i'll try to get my team in tomorrow and then i'm away from Thursday eve till Sunday in Cornwall so won't be too active.

Chris Im pretty sure if I were to go back I would find comments from most of us, including you, stating that Geraghty would solve Englands problems at 12.

Its a lot harder for a player who has specialised at 10 to move to 12 then you think. Just look at Trinc Duc at the weekend. Theres a flyhalf whom we would all expect to make a good job at 12. Seems more suited to an IC spot then flyhalf yet after having a storming 25 minutes against Ireland at FH was fairly anonymous from 12 after moving there when Mermoz came off. Its not as easy as you think and Im just not sure if Flood can do it for the world cup with only a few weeks notice

Chris, looks like you might have Giteau for the WC:

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/10059483/giteau-set-for-stunning-world-cup-snub/

SJE i can guarantee you would never find any quotes from me regarding Geraghty being englands saviour. Definitely not a fan.

I am not surprised by the Giteau snub. i am amazed however that a team like Australia that has a lack of experience and also a flaky ten liable to self destruct would not take him. Big mistake IMO

SJE I dont think I've ever put Geraghty forward as England's best hope in the 12 shirt. He had the potential to make a great impact sub as his perforamnce against France showed a few years back. But at a time when English 12's are at an all time low (since the Will Greenwood era) I dont think I have ever suggested he should play for England.

Giteau snub is crazy - agree with you Mat. Cooper is a world class talent, but he has some world class flaws. Can win a game with a moment of magic, but nearly as likely to try something stupid that can lose a game...

Reading on Twitter between lot of rugby players that they've been told only Youngs and Care will travel as no9s with Foden covering if needed. They want space to take Sharples...

Hearing that Care is out of the World Cup

"England scrum-half Danny Care is ruled out of the World Cup after injuring his toe joint."

I think this means that we have to take three scrum halfs as neither Simpson or RW have been properly tested on the international stage for a while (or ever in Simpson's case)

Big loss in the scheme of things, he'd been playing well. Simpson's got to go now I think.

Seel sorry for Care had a cracking season. Should have surely been 1st choice for the start of the world cup...

My world cup side is looking cracking now though!!

I can't believe that having sold Gethin Jenkins and Matthew Rees they are now both likely to not go to the World Cup. Gutted.

Six and two threes Pete, I'm sure a few will pick them up for lack of form

Giteau not in Aus squad. Barnes brought in and Mitchell according to Aus press:

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/fit-giteau-gets-flick-as-deans-takes-a-punt-on-walking-wounded-for-cup-20110817-1iyat.html

Iam very unsure about this you know. Giteau has to be ahead of Barnes given barnes situation

I will.
sounds harsh but I think Chris brought this point up a while back.

Why can't one of my players drop out of world cup squads??!! Not that i'd wish an injury on anyone Pat McCabe/Morne Steyn/Jimmy Cowan/Ali Williams/Scott Higginbotham

Getting worried about that opening game Prop?

I will as always be marking down long term injuries. Not going to mark down someone who has had a good season and picked up an injury just before the world cup though.

I really wanted barnes to show a bit of form and then not go. Good to see him back though

I would not really mark care down but jenkins has not played for nearly a year and would be marked down by me.

Heres one for you Matt would you rate down Bekker? Had a cracking Super 15 but then got injured so has a seasons worth of form to back him up

Depends if you look at it as, in terms of our game, technically he has not been picked for the WC squad so form can't be that good.

But thought we all pick on real life form where he has been cracking. Its not as if hes been long term injured. If we were to do it on in game form it gets very very messy

Matt Giteau has just announced his retirement from international rugby. Can't believe that they arent taking him - Deans is making a massive mistake there, 91 caps, plays 4 positions, if Cooper messes up who are they going to call on? James O'Connor isnt an int 10, Barnes might not last more than 20minutes.

Crazy, crazy, decision is he PdV in disguise? Its like England asking Wilko to stay at home for England!

It's a fine line and not sure what others stance is on it.

Nick....that's way too complicated for me! Anything over 6 months takes a hit for me but world class don't stop becoming quality because they've been injured. WC will always hold certain value

I'm with Nick on this - if they werent injured then they would be at the world cup, so its an unfair advantage on players who have a world class player who is injured in real life playing for them in this game - bit harsh, but I would say that their form wasnt good enough to take them to the WC.

Its a hard one though, think injuries in this game should try and reflect real life injuries e.g. say we have 5 injuries and Tom Rees is injured in real life (he's just hurt his knee in real life :-( ), that means you've effectively got 6 injuries as no one will rate Rees. I think an injured player in real life should really be one of the injured players in this game too.

Dont think I've explained the latter very well, but hopefully you will catch my drift there! Also perhaps set a limit of only having one English player injured at a time too?

There's no way I'll mark somebody down for using players that are injured so not making WC. How do you rate a players form in the game?

You can't play real life injuries on this game without enormous complications.

People have had the advantage of having top players available during internationals because of injury before and not been pulled for it. Its just luck of the draw. Bit unfair to pull on it now when it wasn't pulled on previously

If we were using "in game" form for the basis for our ratings does that mean that all of my players are in tip top form because over the last 6/7 competitive games I would be 3rd/4th in the form table. Which would mean not taking an "in game" on form Bekker to the world cup is a mistake by PDV.

And then working on that presumption should we be marking down sides lower down the form guide "in game" for lack of form??

Opening a whole can of worms by trying to bring in "in game" ratings

If we followed real life injuries you'd get a "get out of jail free" in Tom Rees as he hasn't been fit in real life for 3 years! Lol

"bit harsh, but I would say that their form wasnt good enough to take them to the WC. "

Just can't see that at all. If Carter breaks his leg next week and misses world cup does that mean you'd rate him that he hasn't been picked by NZ thus in terrible form?

If a player doesn't make the world cup it doesn't mean he's less of a player. If Guildford doesn't go(quite possible) does that mean he's a poor player?

Seemed to use a few of your players to make my point there Matt

Chris

As I have said before, trying to co ordinate injuries in the game with real life ones is not manageable. Do you think we always know when players are injured and when they are left out for some other reason. It is just not do able.

In relation to players not in international sides for the World Cup, for injury or other reason (Giteau for example), I'll be judging each one on it's own merits. As someone has alread said, I don't think Jenkins has played this year so I would be marking him down as a result, but Rees has and been in good form so wouldn't drop his rating really.

Pete - didnt explain myself properly. What I was trying to say is before injuries are decided and say you had Mullan, Lambie and Goode injured - why not include them in the injured players list as opposed to picking three non-injured players. Or if there is a long-term injured player then always have him as one of the selected injured e.g. the guy that gets injured for 5 weeks.

Not hard to do - and obviously if a player got injured during the injury period then thats just tough. Was just a bit annoying last season always having 5 of my best players injured and then having 5-6 players injured and getting slated for picking injured players in real life.