Wales 19 - 9 England : Post Match Discussion.

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James Hook scored the crucial try as Wales beat England in a pulsating if error-strewn World Cup warm-up clash at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium.

Wales, who lost Gavin Henson to injury, led 6-3 after two Rhys Priestland penalties but Toby Flood levelled it.

England dominated either side of half-time but failed to unlock Wales' defence, only managing another penalty.

Wales picked themselves up to score with Hook's try just before the hour and he landed two penalties to seal it.

England failed to score a try for the first time in 14 Tests to leave manager Martin Johnson with plenty to ponder ahead of their final warm-up match against Ireland in Dublin on 27 August.

Wales head coach Warren Gatland had told his team they had to win if they hoped to be considered serious contenders for the forthcoming World Cup, and they duly ended a three-match losing streak ahead of Argentina's visit to Cardiff next Saturday.

Gatland proud of Wales win
The hosts began strongly, George North taking an innovative kick-off on the right flank to set up a first-minute penalty for Priestland.

But England replied in kind as Flood's restart fell to Nick Easter and this time Wales got on the wrong side of referee Alain Rolland for the England fly-half to level.

Jamie Roberts was a knock-on away from a sensational try from Lloyd Burns' long line-out throw as the venom with which Wales started continued unabated.

Priestland's second penalty was the reward after 10 minutes, but when Wales' early fury abated, England's forward power began to take its toll.

In a display reminiscent of Johnson's heyday as captain, England's driving line-outs and close-quarter aggression were the foundation of a territorial dominance that spanned the game's two middle quarters.

An impressive series of scrums close to the Welsh line had the hosts in all sorts of trouble and on the brink of conceding a penalty try.

But just as that moment approached, England's pack lost control of the ball and when Richard Wigglesworth launched the backline attack, Henson was equal to the challenge.

He brought down Shontayne Hape and the ball spilled into grateful Welsh hands. But after an impressive opening half-hour, Henson was forced off by injury.

England wing Matt Banahan - who came into the starting line-up after Chris Ashton failed a fitness test - looked set to score in the right corner after 13 minutes but Shane Williams brought down the towering wing and Hook stripped him of the ball as he attempted to touch down.

Johnson frustrated by England errors
Flood levelled after Wales went off their feet at a ruck and for the rest of the opening period the hosts were forced to defend.

They did so admirably even if England showed a lack of invention and cutting edge in the Welsh 22.

Flood sent Mike Tindall through a hole in midfield on a 40-metre run, but Wales again thwarted the threat close to their own line when Hape was scragged, leaving England increasingly frustrated.

The hosts reshuffled their back division at the break, Aled Brew coming on at wing, Priestland departing and Williams switching to full-back.

Roberts was sin-binned within moments of the restart for not releasing the tackler, further disrupting their back division, and Flood put England ahead for the first time.

As the contest wore on the fitness advantage Wales skipper Sam Warburton and Roberts had claimed over their opponents seemed to be true.

The hosts' attacking style drew England back and forth across the field and as the gaps appeared Wales edged closer and closer to the try-line.

Just before the hour Hook evaded Dan Cole, James Haskell and Danny Care to touch down and reclaim the lead, converting his own try.

The Perpignan-bound player added a penalty after 68 minutes and despite Wales losing scrum-half Mike Phillips to the sin-bin with nine minutes left, England could still not take advantage.

Hook landed another penalty from halfway in the final minute to send the Welsh fans home delirious, and England away with much to contemplate.

Wales: Hook, North, Roberts, Henson, Shane Williams, Priestland, Phillips; James, Burns, Mitchell, Charteris, AW Jones, Lydiate, Warburton (capt), Faletau. Replacements: Bennett (for Burns, 53), Bevington (for James, James for Mitchell, 77), Turnbull, Tipuric, Knoyle, Scott Williams (for Henson, 32), Brew (for Priestland, 41).

Yellow card: Roberts (41), Phillips (71)

England: Foden, Banahan, Tindall (capt), Hape, Cueto; Flood, Wigglesworth; Corbisiero, Thompson, Cole; Deacon, Lawes; Wood, Fourie, Easter.

Replacements: Mears (for Thompson, 59), Stevens (for Corbisiero, 59), Palmer (for Deacon, 68), Haskell (for Fourie, 50), Care (for Wigglesworth, 30), Hodgson (for Flood, 68), Armitage (for Tindall, 59, Tindall back on 74).

Referee: A Rolland (Ire)

Attendance: 73,000

Come on Al, we've got Kathryn Jenkins and a few others. I forget who the one is on Scrum V.

nottins_jones wrote:Come on Al, we've got Kathryn Jenkins and a few others. I forget who the one is on Scrum V.

guess I'm partial to beautiful Italian women then

Yeah. Turkster. I agree. Jones doesnt play the same way for Wales. Maybe we're too regimented.

Stick insects do nothing for me.

Who's the blonde piece on s4c who I see strolling up and down the touch line at dave. Sweet!

manofgwent wrote:Who's the blonde piece on s4c who I see strolling up and down the touch line at dave. Sweet!

The one with the legs?

manofgwent wrote:Who's the blonde piece on s4c who I see strolling up and down the touch line at dave. Sweet!

isn't that Simon Easterby's missus?

Easterby is married to Sarra Elgan Rees, the daughter of Elgan Rees

tomathy wrote:Welshy824

At te start of today I think MJ would have seen that as near his first choice backline. He normally talks up losses and talks down wins, so for him to be so openly frustrated after that indicates that he might reconsider. I think pretty much all fans want to see wilkinson start, and most would say the same for tuilagi. Inside centre is tricky as we just don't have a very good option there at the moment. Hape was great in the autumn internationals but seems to have lost his way since then.

Not a good time to be asking those questions, last week maybe, but this week just before England announce their squad it is not good.

I thought England's front five did very well, very dominant. Cole, Lawes and Corbisiero were very good though tired towards the end. Mears isn't international standard and Thompson is bullish but not much more, didn't see much of the other English lock.

England's back row didn't work, but could well just have been because they were so overshadowed by the Welsh three playing very good rugby. There are some good players in the squad and I am sure the correct combinations can be found but these weren't them. Fourie was active but not proactive, Wood solid and stoic but Easter was anonymous for most of the match.

Wigglesworth gave little to the game, Flood is not in the form he was at the start of the Six Nations and before, Hape isnt good enough, Cueto did little, Banahan is big but cant read a game or create opportunities and Armitage did nothing until near the end.

If I were Martin johnson I would have wanted to see much more than we did today and I am sympathetic to his apparent frustrations commented on above.

Wales had so little ball to play with and so little a contribution to the game other than defence I am amazed that players didn't get more frustrated and do silly things awarding them more yellow cards. I was immensely proud of the boys for their candour in a difficult first sixty against wave after wave of battering ram forward play by England.

When we did get ball we easily moved into Englands half and we came away with points most of the time.

Great turn over work by the Welsh back row, athleticism by the locks even though they made some incredibly silly tap downs in the line out that went to touch.

I felt the ref was very harsh on the Welsh front row, as there was a lot of shenanigans in the front row, popping up, turning in, early shoves and interesting binding configurations from the start that Allan Rowland missed, penalising Wales giving England a great deal of momentum from the start. Again the front five did well to not loose their cool.

Welsh backline looked exuberant on the little they had, few silly knock ons but in general they did well with what they had.

Just such a shame about the injuries.

maes, I think I'm a bit sympathetic to Martin Johnsons frustrations too. He seems like such a nice bloke.

nottins_jones wrote:maes, I think I'm a bit sympathetic to Martin Johnsons frustrations too. He seems like such a nice bloke.

I imagine he is, though wouldn't have liked to have played against him.

I think it i's easterny's missus. Blonde, tanned and fiiiiiiiittttt!!!
She want working for S4C last year. They had some lovely brunette.
Hats off to S4C. I can't speak welsh, but what would rather look at? The couple of tasty sorts they've got working or rick o Shea and phil Steele. No contest!

Hey maesteg.
You were right about England and Johnson. They really are in a pickle!

manofgwent wrote:Hey maesteg.
You were right about England and Johnson.

Good Evening MoG i hope you are in as good spirits as we are at our house. A great day out in Cardiff, wonderful walk around the museum Art Gallery, forget how many fantastic works we have there, a great lunch with friends and a spirited international then home with out any traffic drama as i decided to drive to Port Talbot instead of driving to Cardiff and took the train.

I think Martin Johnson and his coaches have got a lot of thinking to do at the moment. Possibly more than Gatland and his twisted, lacklustre band of underachieving cronies...!

manofgwent wrote:I think it i's easterny's missus. Blonde, tanned and fiiiiiiiittttt!!!
She want working for S4C last year. They had some lovely brunette.
Hats off to S4C. I can't speak welsh, but what would rather look at? The couple of tasty sorts they've got working or rick o Shea and phil Steele. No contest!

Oy!What is wrong with Phill!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fair point maesteg.
Sounds like a good day.
I was down there too. Can't day I did lunch, but I did have a pasty and a few lagers in the Hayes. Strange, strange fame. We were murdered in the set piece, but took our few chances. I really do think our future looks very bright.
Hope your wait at the station wasn't as long as mine. It was murder. Good day and I'm back next week. Life sucks!!!
Sounds like you had a good one.

Taff. Love phil. He used to play for the port!

manofgwent wrote:Fair point maesteg.
Sounds like a good day.
I was down there too. Can't day I did lunch, but I did have a pasty and a few lagers in the Hayes. Strange, strange fame. We were murdered in the set piece, but took our few chances. I really do think our future looks very bright.
Hope your wait at the station wasn't as long as mine. It was murder. Good day and I'm back next week. Life sucks!!!
Sounds like you had a good one.

It was great, really enjoyed it. I am heading back with some mates next week instead of my wife... ! I am sure I will be able to get away with a few pints and a pasty then...

Cant bloody wait...!

Ha ha. Quality. Just think. You'll be able to let your hair down. I really do treat myself when I'm out for the rugby!!! May go for a steak slice next week!!
I don't always slum it. Before the England game in the 6 nations, I was swanning around the crown plaza. I tell you. How the other half live.
Enjoy next week. I think another win and we'll be on a bit of a roll.

I thought it showed today that we are much more talented than England. They just do the basics far better.

We definitely needed some more experience in the front five, one of Adam Jones, Gethin Jenkins or Matthew Rees would have made a huge difference. But the referee let England's front row get away with pure murder at the scrum.

The Blind Irish Referee...!

I'm going next week too with family. Will be starting with a meal at tiger-tiger. I've never been in there. I won't be staying around post match though it's a freinds birthday and he's having a house party so I'll likely be heading back to his in Malpas... Got a christening to attend the next day so I'll be taking it easy. Hope that plan doesn't go jubblies up...

TycroesOsprey wrote:Henson didnt only just make one tackle and you know it. He missed one and made 4 in the time he was on, he also challenged well at the breakdown assisting in welsh drives, he distributed well putting Toby on a run in the first couple of minutes. The tackle he "just" made he also got to his feet repisitioned and kicked downfield to relieve the pressure on the welsh line.

He was turned over once when he possibly broke his arm. Honestly it was only an ok performance but he did as much in the 32 mins he was on as Scott Williams did for the rest of the game. Henson was far better than you are inferring fhf.

Tycroes I have re-run that match I couldnt see 4 tackles at all, he was ok I agree, he was turned over twice looks like he injured on the second one he deffo put 100% in but he was no more than ok. Williams was better than him (positionally and structurally) considering he covered for Roberts sin binning and co-covered the space Phillips vacated 10 mins each, I somehow couldn't see Henson covering the two spaces in midfield could you if he was still on?.

Sorry IMHO Williams was better overall

Nottins. Maples in Newport? If so. That's where I grew up.

Fly half. I'll have to watch it back, but from what I could see. Henson was very solid in defence. Scott Williams initially looked shaky, but just got better as the game went on. Fair play to him. He's really impressed in his appearances so far. Will gatland start him next week?

Yes, by the Gladiator (now shutdown). Many of my friends live there. Btw, I'd never use the words 'jubblies' in fact, who on earth would say that? Must have been edited but I just wanted to make that clear!

The glad! Man I used to love the BMX track in grove park. I'm a woodlands boy.

manofgwent wrote:Fly half. I'll have to watch it back, but from what I could see. Henson was very solid in defence. Scott Williams initially looked shaky, but just got better as the game went on. Fair play to him. He's really impressed in his appearances so far. Will gatland start him next week?

Don't get me wrong I was impressed with Henson, some good runs, and he tackled this time.......much improved on the BaaBaas (but lets be honest you couldnt get worse), and you can see his ball handling is sublime, but not a shoe-in like some posters have suggested. And lets be honest it was only 30 mins and again Williams was very good considering it was his home appearance so nerves were there initially.

If I had to make a decision between those two it wouldnt take me long to tick the pros and cons and then decide

Fly half.
It's a real dilemma.
Some people prefer hook in the centre.
Roberts has impressed.
Jonathon Davies i's a great player IMO.
Henson has so much ability.
Scott Williams. Can't help but be impressed.
I'm glad I'm not trying to sort it out.

MOG

All fantastic players so a great position to be in tho

We are bloody jealous of you guys

flyhalffactory wrote:

Tycroes I have re-run that match I couldnt see 4 tackles at all, he was ok I agree, he was turned over twice looks like he injured on the second one he deffo put 100% in but he was no more than ok. Williams was better than him (positionally and structurally) considering he covered for Roberts sin binning and co-covered the space Phillips vacated 10 mins each, I somehow couldn't see Henson covering the two spaces in midfield could you if he was still on?.

Sorry IMHO Williams was better overall

FHF - Williams too missed two tackles, was caught out of position offensively AND defensively. He is a very promising player, but he didn't outplay Henson. As for being "structurally" better - do you mean he is better built? I am not qualified to comment!

thing is if Henson is fit, its not between him and Scott Williams, its between him and Aled Brew, theres only 15 players left in the backs already so one only one of them is getting dropped if gats goes for a 14/16 split. Henson can play 3 positions Brew only one so Henson gets on teh plane imo. If he hasnt bust his arm and its only a blood cap bursting which gatland seemed to think in the press conference afterwards.

TycroesOsprey wrote:thing is if Henson is fit, its not between him and Scott Williams, its between him and Aled Brew, theres only 15 players left in the backs already so one only one of them is getting dropped if gats goes for a 14/16 split. Henson can play 3 positions Brew only one so Henson gets on teh plane imo. If he hasnt bust his arm and its only a blood cap bursting which gatland seemed to think in the press conference afterwards.

I agree I also think Shane will want to play in ALL the games because he wants the try scoring record so he will probably be on at Gatland to play.

Of the game yesterday i thought that wales was poor but England was a lot lot worse to be honest,England had no structure in the backs yes the pack was strong but that was not enough to get a penalty try whyen needed.

Toby Flood might as well be playing with a blind fold over his eyes, he did not get the back line going at all,England seemed especialy yesterday to revert back stick it up the jumper and go for the rolling maul....If England play the same way in the RWC then i expect an early exit to be honest.

That was England's first choice team or nearly first choice and they simply was not good enough.,

With regards to Gavin Henson getting injured yesterday, i agree with other posters on here, it is a shame he was starting to look good...Why was Priestland taken off was he injured or was it a tacticle move on Gatlands part?

England will need to play a lot better against Ireland to lay the Ghost of the 6ns and also restore some pride in the England team.

Madge, they said Priestland had a calf strain, I think.

England's return to the new Lansdowne Road was always going to be a big game after what happened in the Six Nations, but it's an even more important one now. It might be a good thing that you have a fortnight to prepare and tweak things for it.

manofgwent wrote:Nottins. Malpas in Newport? If so. That's where I grew up.

Same here!

manofgwent wrote:Fly half. I'll have to watch it back, but from what I could see. Henson was very solid in defence. Scott Williams initially looked shaky, but just got better as the game went on. Fair play to him. He's really impressed in his appearances so far. Will gatland start him next week?

to be fair, Englands attack could make of made anyone's defence look solid.

nathan wrote:

manofgwent wrote:Fly half. I'll have to watch it back, but from what I could see. Henson was very solid in defence. Scott Williams initially looked shaky, but just got better as the game went on. Fair play to him. He's really impressed in his appearances so far. Will gatland start him next week?

to be fair, Englands attack could make of made anyone's defence look solid.

Apart from englands

Only the English can dominate for 60 minutes and still come second

Alyn, what's the point of that? I thought we'd left posts mocking the defeated side on the old 606.

Maybe its just a polite reaction to the fact that most posts on here see this as England somehow just handing the victory to Wales. That is so short sighted and just begrudgingly offensive. Alyn's is hardly toxic and is on par with anglo posters writing Wales didn't win, England lost it. And after all those posts mythically claiming Wales don't lose matches the other team just scores more points. Poetic justice or what but hardly the stuff to start a riot .

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Alyn, what's the point of that? I thought we'd left posts mocking the defeated side on the old 606.

Mocking?
It's a compliment

always look for the positives in any situation

There were lots of positive yesterday for England if they are really experimenting and those are that you can now dump:

Bananaman
Tindall
Hape
Cueto

and replace with exciting talent such as Sharples, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees and Sinbad - Just do it Jonno; Otherwise you are just limiting your teams chances. It's been a good 12 months for english rugby but England need to look at the performaces v S Africa, Ireland and Scotland to get a more realistic appraisal of where they are developmentally as a side.

No need to apologise, Alyn, but it's not true that it's 'only the English;' I seem to remember Wales v Scotland in 2010...

England did throw it away though. Dominating possession enough to go for the lineout, rather than 3 points. Any team with an ounce of attacking threat would've stuck 40 on Wales if they'd been as dominant as England were.

I said it at the end of the last game and I'll say it again; for a big lad, Banahan is completely ineffective. England have work to do, but if Wales let anyone else dominate them like that they will get slaughtered.

My comment wasnt meant to provoke, it was just an honest statement which I think most people would agree with. Ruby, most people have congratulated Wales on the win. Seriously you think Wales controlled the outcome of that game more than England did? Now that's being short sighted!!

RubyGuby wrote:There were lots of positive yesterday for England if they are really experimenting and those are that you can now dump:

Bananaman
Tindall
Hape
Cueto

and replace with exciting talent such as Sharples, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees and Sinbad - Just do it Jonno; Otherwise you are just limiting your teams chances. It's been a good 12 months for english rugby but England need to look at the performaces v S Africa, Ireland and Scotland to get a more realistic appraisal of where they are developmentally as a side.

Here here, but you should add Wales to the list of performances, I must also admit that I was in the camp that supported Banahan as a good prospect but after this and last week not any more

England's pack, with several young players, did well but the backplay was horrible, and that's down to more than just the presence of Hape. I think we have to look at the coaching, and the attitude the players are sent onto the pitch with.

nathan wrote:My comment wasnt meant to provoke, it was just an honest statement which I think most people would agree with. Ruby, most people have congratulated Wales on the win. Seriously you think Wales controlled the outcome of that game more than England did? Now that's being short sighted!!

No need to apologise to anyone mate, somehere are far to critical and will post anything to get a response.

A bit of harmless England bashing done no one no harm:) In fact it is encouraged.

EnglishReign wrote:England did throw it away though. Dominating possession enough to go for the lineout, rather than 3 points. Any team with an ounce of attacking threat would've stuck 40 on Wales if they'd been as dominant as England were.

I said it at the end of the last game and I'll say it again; for a big lad, Banahan is completely ineffective. England have work to do, but if Wales let anyone else dominate them like that they will get slaughtered.

That's what frustrates other nations - Actually you didn't throw it away, you just lacked the creativity to break down a strong defence - This taking penalties myth that most of you are peddling is embarrassing - Wales didn't go for penaltys or drop goals last week but those are the choices you make. Any decent leader might have said after 50 minutes, lets take what's on offer 'cos we aint gonna score a try. Tindall using it as a sort of "we could have scored if we wanted to" just wreaks of arrogance and a bad losing demeanour. If you had gone for the points maybe Wales would have upped the anti and scored more trys. Maybe maybe, if only if only. Just take it and move on. You were beaten by a better team who stifled you when you had the ball. Defences often win games. This was a case in hand.

And 20 minutes with 14 men and you never looked like scoring. That's great defence as well as poor back play

Guess you could argue that England lost it rather than Wales won it.

Infact it quite reminds me of watching Wales a lot recently, you can play well for long periods but cant turn preassure into points, then the opposition has a few minutes which they score and its game over.

I tend to agree that England might have got a penalty try with a different ref. But if you look at the replays it was THomsons head coming up first (as it was with the Kiwi last week) so a different ref may have penalised England!

The two yellows were very harsh, Roberts was, I think, a clear error, he was the tackler as was entitled to go for the ball. Cares hans were on the ballk for the second so he was fair game!

Luck win for Wales though.