What Ireland need to learn from the Connacht game

First topic message reminder :

Starting from the front and heading back I thought it apt to go and see what bits of information we can/need to learn from the game in Donnybrook tonight as far as I am aware is not being televised.

We need to see if Buckley can play LH and play well.
He has been very disappointing over the first two tests. Very poor scrimmaging and has not been in the loose what we know he can be. Seems to be in a shoot out with Hayes for the fourth prop spot and I think it may just come down to this final game to decide it. Buckley can be exceptional in the loose as seen down south last summer and can scrum as seen in the Autumn against Argentina but can he do it regularly?

We need Cullen to up his performance and see what else Ryan can do.
McCarthy on the bench on Saturday is telling. DK obviously believes that McCarthy and Ryan are quite close standard wise. Ryan has had two tests and now McCarthy will, again it seems like a straight shoot out between the two. Cullen also needs to prove he can up his game, he has been quite ineffective over the last two tests and needs to up the anti quite a bit.

We need to learn whether Jennings can even be considered.
Jennings has played exceptionally well for Leinster this year but injury has ruled him out of all the warm ups thus far. With Ferris back and firing (well fit enough to put on the bench) and Leamy doing quite well so far, we need to see if Jennings can produce something no other backrower can. He is unique in style but can he compete at the highest level (the Connacht game not being the highest level) but again appears a shoot out between Leamy and Jennings with Leamy ahead.

We need to know who will be our 3rd scrumhalf.
Boss vs Murray with Stringer seemingly left out in the cold. Boss has had a good season with Leinster providing a quicker service than before but also a fiery physicality. Murray has had a great run in to the close of the season. Seems to have all the skills needed, appears cool headed and unphased by the big occasions. Best passer of the 4 scrumhalves remaining, good tackler, best boxkicker, good decision making.

We need to double check Wallace can play 10.
It’s been a while since Wallace wore the 10 jersey in green. He won’t be tested too much but we need to see he can do it. Even with Keatley and Mcfadden in the team I’d like Wallace to kick the goals. Needs to show us that he can attack the line hard and can also control the game both in equal measure and where necessary.

We need to see McFadden and Murphy do something special.
As such neither seem to be going to the RWC, as such neither deserve too. They need to show us something that would make DK not want to bring Fitzgerald or Jones. These two seem to be the desperadoes of the group.

My wishlist:
Murray to have a stormer and play the whole second half.
Cullen to up his game.
Jennings to put pressure on Leamy.
Wallace to show us he can control a game.

Stand,
You are probably right. I secretly resigned myself to the fact, that it was too late for him after his injury. I just hope he gives Deccie a majorly embarrassing selection issue, IF he gets the chance on Sat.... that' s all. If he still picks Leamy after that, well...

A backrow of O’Brien – Heaslip – Jennings at international level!?
The pressure is building on the shoulders of the Leinster contingent on this board that’s for sure. I love it. they’re a class unit and I have every faith that they are up to the task.

I dont understand how jennings and cullen can play at a different level to there competition and be considered not up to it to go to the world cup.

What have we learnt form last night = at least this what my spies tell me.

Hayes has played himself out of the WC - Buckley is going
Cullen has probably played himself out of the WC - looks like Ryan and McCarthy are going.
Murray out performed Boss
Murphy made a late bit to usurp Jones
McFadden made a late bit to usurp Fitzgerald (unless we take 5 props in which case neither is going)
Leamy again nothing special

Other thoughts
Who will get the last back row slot - Jennings or Leamy ?
Wallace - kicking aside had a good game
Keatley had a poor one
McLaughlin was nothing special

You can take Geordan to the RWC but after all Tigers went through to rebuild him, don't you dare break him! We missed him massively last season and he is irreplaceable in the Tigers team.

geoff998rugby wrote:What have we learnt form last night = at least this what my spies tell me.

Hayes has played himself out of the WC - Buckley is going
Cullen has probably played himself out of the WC - looks like Ryan and McCarthy are going.
Murray out performed Boss
Murphy made a late bit to usurp Jones
McFadden made a late bit to usurp Fitzgerald (unless we take 5 props in which case neither is going)
Leamy again nothing special

Other thoughts
Who will get the last back row slot - Jennings or Leamy ?
Wallace - kicking aside had a good game
Keatley had a poor one
McLaughlin was nothing special

This confuses me, from what i read the scrums were a mess in the first half with Buckley at LH and Hayes at TH, they got better when Horan came on. All this proves is that Buckley is not a LH, we already knew that! If he's taken because he's "versitile" we might as well take Mal O'Kelly for his impecible time keeping abilities.

Mick, Horan came on for Hayes. Buckley moved to tighthead.

Gibson wrote:Stand,
You are probably right. I secretly resigned myself to the fact, that it was too late for him after his injury. I just hope he gives Deccie a majorly embarrassing selection issue, IF he gets the chance on Sat.... that' s all. If he still picks Leamy after that, well...

Leamy is going primarily as Heislip's cover. SOB is covering Wally. Both are covering Ferris at 6. Only way Jennings will go is if Wally doesn't make it.

If Jennings was really being considered, he would have been earmarked for the bench at least on Saturday instead of starting against Connacht. (I'm not ruling Geordan Murphy out yet as he looked pretty good last night - but Geordan has 60+ caps, Jennings has about 6).

What we learned form the scrum last night is that Buckley CANNOT play loosehead. It improved dramatically when Horan came on and Mushy moved over to TH.

red_stag wrote:Mick, Horan came on for Hayes. Buckley moved to tighthead.

I know. So Buckley can play tighthead. But he clearly can't play loosehead. So why would his versitility be used as an excuse to bring him. I know the guy is going through some personal stuff and I have no problem with him at that level, but as a rugby player he's a disgrace. Apathy is an infuriating attribute of a pro rugby player.

Scrum is a major issue, we knew this but really there should have been no problem against connacht.
We really should invest in mcallister and hagan and a few more young guys and hold prop camps where scrummaging is the main feature, bring in world class scrummagers along with feek and get this sorted

Nothing to do with versatility Mick. Him and Hayes are much of a muchness. Realistically him, Horan and Hayes are the men for 4th choice.

red_stag wrote:Nothing to do with versatility Mick. Him and Hayes are much of a muchness. Realistically him, Horan and Hayes are the men for 4th choice.

Hayes is as good as him at tighthead and a better lifter in the lineout
Horan is a solid operator at losehead
Buckley is not up to the required standard in either position and only contributes around the park when he’s bothered.

He would be last on the list for me.

Mickado wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:What have we learnt form last night = at least this what my spies tell me.

Hayes has played himself out of the WC - Buckley is going
Cullen has probably played himself out of the WC - looks like Ryan and McCarthy are going.
Murray out performed BossMurphy made a late bit to usurp Jones
McFadden made a late bit to usurp Fitzgerald (unless we take 5 props in which case neither is going)
Leamy again nothing special

Other thoughts
Who will get the last back row slot - Jennings or Leamy ?
Wallace - kicking aside had a good game
Keatley had a poor one
McLaughlin was nothing special

This confuses me, from what i read the scrums were a mess in the first half with Buckley at LH and Hayes at TH, they got better when Horan came on. All this proves is that Buckley is not a LH, we already knew that! If he's taken because he's "versitile" we might as well take Mal O'Kelly for his impecible time keeping abilities.

Is the generally accepted outcome? Taking Murray would reek of Kidney having a wee favourite, unproven at any level 'cept for Magners League (God resit its soul).

I think thats unfair. He's said Murray has been very impressive in training- he's forced his way in. And it's not as if the guys he's up against are particularly great.

red_stag wrote:Mick, Horan came on for Hayes. Buckley moved to tighthead.

Didn't Les Kiss say in an interview after the game that Hayes was taken off due to injury? Maybe I've got that one wrong. Anyway, I don't think it matters who we bring as 4th prop due to them all being equally not very good. I think it has shown us though that taking a 5th prop would be very foolish indeed. Better to give the space to a back that can change a game in the way that Horan, Hayes and Buckley can't.

From what I've read I'm delighted that Murray did so well for himself. I still think it's just a bit too soon for him to be selected (by Kidney I mean, as opposed to not being good enough).

Murphy has put pressure on Jones to do well tomorrow. If he has a poor game it leaves the door wide open for Geordan.

I'd love to see Jennings playing tomorrow. I don't think we can afford to risk Wallace if there's any doubt at all over his fitness. He's the consummate professional and can play to a very high level even without too much gametime. He's proven this time and time again when coming back from injury throughout his career. I can't remember him ever having a bad game, though that could just be my green/red tinted glasses.

Starting the Leinster backrow makes so much sense. Having Jennings there should do wonders for O'Brien. We all know what they're like as a trio. The best in Europe this year. By a mile.

What I have been told is Buckley performed better at TH than Hayes - that could be decisive. I really do wonder if Horan as a 5th prop is being seriously considered. It must be on the table.

Again being told Murray was better than Boss simple as that. If these games mean anything he should be in contention

geoff998rugby wrote:What I have been told is Buckley performed better at TH than Hayes - that could be decisive. I really do wonder if Horan as a 5th prop is being seriously considered. It must be on the table.

It's pretty difficult to look good at tighthead if your loosehead is being manshamed though. Say what you like about Horan but the scrum is one of his strengths.

As for him getting the 5th spot. Do we really need him there when we have Healy and Court to play loosehead? Also, in the case of injury we can call someone else up. I'd be hugely disappointed if we brought 17 forwards and only 13 backs when our strengths are clearly in the loose forwards and the backs and not in the front row.

My gut feeling is we will not go with 5 props but it is on the table.
If we go with Ryan and McCarthy and no Cullen could we consider an extra backrower - especially with the Ferris and Wallace situations

i.e POC, DOC, Ryan, McCarthy, Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace, SOB, Leamy, Jennings - just a thought

MMC wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:What I have been told is Buckley performed better at TH than Hayes - that could be decisive. I really do wonder if Horan as a 5th prop is being seriously considered. It must be on the table.

It's pretty difficult to look good at tighthead if your loosehead is being manshamed though. Say what you like about Horan but the scrum is one of his strengths.

As for him getting the 5th spot. Do we really need him there when we have Healy and Court to play loosehead? Also, in the case of injury we can call someone else up. I'd be hugely disappointed if we brought 17 forwards and only 13 backs when our strengths are clearly in the loose forwards and the backs and not in the front row.

+ 1^2

Was at the game last night. The scrum was an absolute embarrassment. As average as Buckley is at TH, he is woeful at LH. Horan i thought did very well when he came on but unfortunately for him i dont think he is in the reckoning for New Zealand

Leamy underwhelmed once again and im not completely sure what he has done to get included in the 30 man squad. I definitely think he is going, but he is simply not an international class 8 anymore.

I actually thought Boss played very well, but Murray did very well when he came on too and although the opposition were not the best, Wallace at least showed he can still do a job at 10 if really called upon

Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

geoff998rugby wrote:What have we learnt form last night = at least this what my spies tell me.

Hayes has played himself out of the WC - Buckley is going
Cullen has probably played himself out of the WC - looks like Ryan and McCarthy are going.
Murray out performed Boss
Murphy made a late bit to usurp Jones
McFadden made a late bit to usurp Fitzgerald (unless we take 5 props in which case neither is going)
Leamy again nothing special

Other thoughts
Who will get the last back row slot - Jennings or Leamy ?
Wallace - kicking aside had a good game
Keatley had a poor one
McLaughlin was nothing special

Leamy seemed to be going through the motions last night, he looked like he knew his fate and was just trying not to get injured.
All the props were useless, Cronin was decent. The second rows were poor, still not sure whether to believe what I heard about
cullen missing out though. McLaughlin was very meh, ronan was his usual useless self.
I though boss was decent, murray was much better but he was playing against a tired connacht pack.
Murphy was good but he has no pace anymore, it was shocking to see it all gone, he won't be going to new zealand.
McFadden was good but nothing spectacular despite the amount of tries he set up, don't think he will be going unless there are injuries.
I thought Wallace was very good and the centre partnership was impressive, cave and keatley made their tackles but were involved in attack.

Overall I thought it was a useful exercise, as I said last night a friend told me that most of the squad have been told whether or not they are going, and you could see that by the look of some of the players. Still don't believe that cullen is out.

MMC wrote:

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

I heard that as well, apparently most of the players have been told whether they'll go or not. I think cullen may have also mentioned it last night. The only positions in doubt are scrumhalf and the exact make up of the back three selection.

valjester wrote:

MMC wrote:

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

I heard that as well, apparently most of the players have been told whether they'll go or not. I think cullen may have also mentioned it last night. The only positions in doubt are scrumhalf and the exact make up of the back three selection.

If that is the case then I really don't see why the players should be told before the game. They should be told to go out there and play for their place, even if it's already been decided unbeknown to them. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I read what you said last night Val, but did you read Cullens interview after the match in today's Irish times? Sounded like he was still hopeful and not a man who had learned his fate (no golden ticket).

Would be surprised if McCarthy was given the nod ahead of him prior to getting any gametime against france too .....

Although at this stage I wouldnt be too surprised if it turns out Cullen wont be there anyway.

Feagh McHugh wrote:I read what you said last night Val, but did you read Cullens interview after the match in today's Irish times? Sounded like he was still hopeful and not a man who had learned his fate (no golden ticket).

Would be surprised if McCarthy was given the nod ahead of him prior to getting any gametime against france too .....

Although at this stage I wouldnt be too surprised if it turns out Cullen wont be there anyway.

Yeah like I've said I still think my friend is talking sh**e, but he is usually right about this type of stuff, I normally wouldn't say it online but I saw it on another forum as well. It would be devastating for leo to miss out on a third world cup.

mmc; Kidney likes to do it personally on a one to one basis and maybe he felt he wouldn't have time after last night with the build up to the french game. I don't know but I'm sure most knew already or had an inkling that they were going to miss out. There would have being no point giving lads false hope.

Can anyone tell me how Leo can be good enough to captain Leinster and perform so well at HC level which is pretty good, yet not make an Ireland 30 man squad?
I know he is not 1st choice 2nd row but what is de story I ask you??

I certaintly see the point that Hayes would have aproblem at TH with Buckley getting mashed at LH but I supect Buckley will get the nod.

The problem with Cullen is he has simply failed to deliver in the 'trail' games

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Can anyone tell me how Leo can be good enough to captain Leinster and perform so well at HC level which is pretty good, yet not make an Ireland 30 man squad?
I know he is not 1st choice 2nd row but what is de story I ask you??

Him and jennings have got a cold relationship with kidney( they were there in leinster together and the boys wanted out to leicster)
But i though after being made captain he was being recognised for what he brings but obviously not

D24tress wrote:

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Can anyone tell me how Leo can be good enough to captain Leinster and perform so well at HC level which is pretty good, yet not make an Ireland 30 man squad?
I know he is not 1st choice 2nd row but what is de story I ask you??

Him and jennings have got a cold relationship with kidney( they were there in leinster together and the boys wanted out to leicster)
But i though after being made captain he was being recognised for what he brings but obviously not

There is no need to bring up kidney's relationship with the players when we know nothing about it. If leo doesn't go it will be because he didn't perform in the warm ups and, he is not a better player than poc (which there is no shame in, most aren't) and because of the constraints involved in picking a 30 man squad and the gameplan Ireland want to play. Jennings won't go due to get injured at a bad time and because the backrow is where we have genuinely world class players, who are a better than him.

MMC wrote:

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

Just from talking to the lads, despite trying to come across as positive as possible they didnt seem to rate their chances very highly of going and neither of them really seemed like they were gearing up for a world cup. I could be wrong but if i were a betting man i would put my house on them not making it unless there are injuries.

The one player who i really think should go but unfortunately wont is Jennings. He offers something different to the rest of our backrows and while he has struggled to convert his provincial form to international games i think he would be a great asset in the games against Australia and South africa (assuming we play them in the quarters)

Lads theres's no pleasing some people. I've heard people harking on about how Kidney is so conservative. Then when we hear that he's going for Jones, Murray and McCarthy it must be because he harbours a grudge. Give over.

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:Lads theres's no pleasing some people. I've heard people harking on about how Kidney is so conservative. Then when we hear that he's going for Jones, Murray and McCarthy it must be because he harbours a grudge. Give over.

Exactly.

MDB wrote:

MMC wrote:

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

Just from talking to the lads, despite trying to come across as positive as possible they didnt seem to rate their chances very highly of going and neither of them really seemed like they were gearing up for a world cup. I could be wrong but if i were a betting man i would put my house on them not making it unless there are injuries.

The one player who i really think should go but unfortunately wont is Jennings. He offers something different to the rest of our backrows and while he has struggled to convert his provincial form to international games i think he would be a great asset in the games against Australia and South africa (assuming we play them in the quarters)

If everyone is fit, he won't make the 22 even if he is fit. Jennings has never really taken his (limited) chances at international level and he is not in the same class as the top 4 backrowers and despite leamy's obvious dip in form due to injuries etc he has performed for Ireland in the past and was good against scotland and france. I don't think jennings brings anything special to the backrow as all our other options are capable of doing what he can do and doing other stuff as well.

valjester wrote:

MDB wrote:

MMC wrote:

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

Just from talking to the lads, despite trying to come across as positive as possible they didnt seem to rate their chances very highly of going and neither of them really seemed like they were gearing up for a world cup. I could be wrong but if i were a betting man i would put my house on them not making it unless there are injuries.

The one player who i really think should go but unfortunately wont is Jennings. He offers something different to the rest of our backrows and while he has struggled to convert his provincial form to international games i think he would be a great asset in the games against Australia and South africa (assuming we play them in the quarters)

If everyone is fit, he won't make the 22 even if he is fit. Jennings has never really taken his (limited) chances at international level and he is not in the same class as the top 4 backrowers and despite leamy's obvious dip in form due to injuries etc he has performed for Ireland in the past and was good against scotland and france. I don't think jennings brings anything special to the backrow as all our other options are capable of doing what he can do and doing other stuff as well.

Rediculous. Ask yourself this, if Leamy played for Leinster, would he displace Jennings from the team? Not a chance, because Jennings offers something that Leamy doesn't. Now, as to wheather that something is something that Ireland need, that's a different question. But to say Jennings offers nothing nothing unique is just false.

And another thing, if everyone is agreed that Jennings has had very few chances to prove himself, then why is everyone so dissmissive of giving him another one? Tommy Bowe would be on the slag heap if we took that attitude with everyone. Jennings has 2 HC's a premiership and a ML under his belt, lets see what he can do in a green jersey with a proper team around him.

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:Lads theres's no pleasing some people. I've heard people harking on about how Kidney is so conservative. Then when we hear that he's going for Jones, Murray and McCarthy it must be because he harbours a grudge. Give over.

Well it's either that or he's doing what he thinks is in the best interest of the team and he wants to have the best possible selection in order for his country to succeed at a world cup.

Which we all know is just a ridiculous idea Definite grudge-bearing if you ask me.

Possibly best to keep McFaden at home anyway. 3rd choice 12 behind Paddy friggin Wallace. Probably behind Bowe, Trimble Earls and Fitz for the wings, and BOD, Bowe and Earls for 13. He would be lucky to make the bench.

Shame, because he is a fabulous and committed player.

Luckily for Jennings he will get his chance against France - because otherwise he had zero chance of going I feel.
I still think he wont go (not that I think he shouldnt) but at least now he has a "chance" of forcing Kidneys hand.

So lets not get too bogged down in debate over Jennings V Leamy until after the french game on Saturday??

Jennings isn't going. He has done decent for Leinster but I don't think he is good enough for the WC.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Possibly best to keep McFaden at home anyway. 3rd choice 12 behind Paddy friggin Wallace. Probably behind Bowe, Trimble Earls and Fitz for the wings, and BOD, Bowe and Earls for 13. He would be lucky to make the bench.

Shame, because he is a fabulous and committed player.

Who hasn't performed well enough in the trail matches - that is the way it goes.

Paddy Friggin Wallce on the other hand has.

Mickado wrote:

valjester wrote:

MDB wrote:

MMC wrote:

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

Just from talking to the lads, despite trying to come across as positive as possible they didnt seem to rate their chances very highly of going and neither of them really seemed like they were gearing up for a world cup. I could be wrong but if i were a betting man i would put my house on them not making it unless there are injuries.

The one player who i really think should go but unfortunately wont is Jennings. He offers something different to the rest of our backrows and while he has struggled to convert his provincial form to international games i think he would be a great asset in the games against Australia and South africa (assuming we play them in the quarters)

If everyone is fit, he won't make the 22 even if he is fit. Jennings has never really taken his (limited) chances at international level and he is not in the same class as the top 4 backrowers and despite leamy's obvious dip in form due to injuries etc he has performed for Ireland in the past and was good against scotland and france. I don't think jennings brings anything special to the backrow as all our other options are capable of doing what he can do and doing other stuff as well.

Rediculous. Ask yourself this, if Leamy played for Leinster, would he displace Jennings from the team? Not a chance, because Jennings offers something that Leamy doesn't. Now, as to wheather that something is something that Ireland need, that's a different question. But to say Jennings offers nothing that our options don't do is just false.

I agree.

The fact is, SOB can cover 8 - as can Wally at a pinch. Ryan, Ferris and SOB cover 6. Wallace is there for 7. SOB can play there too but it nullifies the really great parts of his game. Why not have a guy in there who can a) cover a position that we don't have much cover for, and b) offer something completely different in terms of how we play.

I was a big fan of Leamy in the past. I still believe he's better at 6 than at 8 but I'm probably in the minority there. I just think that with all the cover we have at 6 and 8 there's more to gain by bringing someone like Jennings.

To those who say that Jennings has rarely delivered in an Ireland jersey; while this may be true, I'd point out that the teams that he was playing in were almost never full strength. It's very very difficult to look good in a losing side. As such, I'd say that's it's best to reserve judgement on Jennings until we (hopefully) see him playing as part of his provincial backrow behind a very impressive looking tight 5.

I think sometimes it's difficult to be objective about certain players when they're in opposition for a place with someone from your own team. The way I look at it is like this: Almost every time Jennings plays against Munster I always think to myself, "what a bloody pain in the ar$e that guy is!", or when there's a turnover I think "it's that feckin' Jennings again!". I can't think of any higher praise of a 7 to be honest.

(I feel like I'm swimming against the current where it comes to non-Leinster fans' views on Jennings though.)

I couldn't care if he goes or not really.

Mickado wrote:

valjester wrote:

MDB wrote:

MMC wrote:

MDB wrote:Met a couple of the Ireland lads out afterwards last night and i think its safe to say McFadden and McLaughlin are not going to the world cup.

Care to elaborate?

Just from talking to the lads, despite trying to come across as positive as possible they didnt seem to rate their chances very highly of going and neither of them really seemed like they were gearing up for a world cup. I could be wrong but if i were a betting man i would put my house on them not making it unless there are injuries.

The one player who i really think should go but unfortunately wont is Jennings. He offers something different to the rest of our backrows and while he has struggled to convert his provincial form to international games i think he would be a great asset in the games against Australia and South africa (assuming we play them in the quarters)

If everyone is fit, he won't make the 22 even if he is fit. Jennings has never really taken his (limited) chances at international level and he is not in the same class as the top 4 backrowers and despite leamy's obvious dip in form due to injuries etc he has performed for Ireland in the past and was good against scotland and france. I don't think jennings brings anything special to the backrow as all our other options are capable of doing what he can do and doing other stuff as well.

Rediculous. Ask yourself this, if Leamy played for Leinster, would he displace Jennings from the team? Not a chance, because Jennings offers something that Leamy doesn't. Now, as to wheather that something is something that Ireland need, that's a different question. But to say Jennings offers nothing nothing unique is just false.

And another thing, if everyone is agreed that Jennings has had very few chances to prove himself, then why is everyone so dissmissive of giving him another one? Tommy Bowe would be on the slag heap if we took that attitude with everyone. Jennings has 2 HC's a premiership and a ML under his belt, lets see what he can do in a green jersey with a proper team around him.

Jennings is a 7, leamy is a 6. Its a non arguement. Jennings offers nothing unique for Ireland, he is not the same standard as the top 4 backrowers.
The situation with bowe is completely different, he is one of the best wings in the world, he is vital to Ireland. You're not comparing like with like. Provincial form means nothing when it comes to international level. Jennings has had limited oppurtunites with ireland due to injury, suspension but mainly because he has been behind better players and because he hasn't taken his (limited) chances.

McFadden should have left Leinster 2-3 years ago.

I would take Jennings over Leamy but it probably won't happen.

As I speculated elsewhere we could take both and go for a 17-13 split with 4 props

red_stag wrote:I couldn't care if he goes or not really.

I couldnt care that you dont care.

On the back row situation, I would prefer Jennings to Leamy. What I will also say is that I hope our top 4 stay fit for the whole tournament because they are far and away our best options.

Feagh McHugh wrote:

red_stag wrote:I couldn't care if he goes or not really.

I couldnt care that you dont care.

Didn't mean it to sound like that. Just saying that the realisitcally its O'Brien, Wallace, Heaslip and Ferris who are comfortably our best options.

Bowe was dire for a few years at the beginning of his career. Dire.

Right question- If both Leamy and Jennings make the WC Squad, what would be your backrowers for the OZ game -i.e matchday 22??? (Assuming everyone is fit)