IRB World Rankings ... Part 1

by Portnoy Mon 8 Aug - 19:42

First topic message reminder :

Current World Rankings

IRB
http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

4Ns Round 1
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/fixtures/international.html

September 2012

Sat 15 Rugby Championship / Freedom Cup
New Zealand v South Africa, Dunedin
19:35 local, 07:35 GMT, 08:35 BST

nzl (on 92.43 points) at home -vs- rsa (on 84.20 points)

If nzl win by 1-15 points 0.000 92.43 84.20 No
If nzl win by more than 15 0.000 92.43 84.20 No
If result is a draw 1.000 91.43 85.20 No
If rsa win by 1-15 points 2.000 90.43 86.20 No
If rsa win by more than 15 3.000 89.43 87.20 No

Sat 15 Rugby Championship
Australia v Argentina, Gold Coast
20:05 local, 10:05 GMT, 11:05 BST

aus (on 86.62 points) at home -vs- arg (on 79.34 points)

If aus win by 1-15 points 0.000 86.62 79.34 No
If aus win by more than 15 0.000 86.62 79.34 No
If result is a draw 1.000 85.62 80.34 No
If arg win by 1-15 points 2.000 84.62 81.34 No
If arg win by more than 15 3.000 83.62 82.34 No

[ed]

Original post:

Pretty much World rankings provide both an 'official' balance sheet and P/L account of international bragging rights.

Sources:
IRB Rankings : http://www.irb.com/rankings/index.html
Rankings explanation : http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html
Rankings archive : http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/index.html

Online calculator (Courtesy of Robbo277 (thanks)) : http://www.lassen.co.nz/pagmisc.php#hrh

by **Biltong** Sun 18 Mar - 9:05

Do you know the joke about when the Lone ranger was bitten by a snake?

by Taffineastbourne Sun 18 Mar - 9:13

biltongbek wrote:

Do you know the joke about when the Lone ranger was bitten by a snake?

Fraid so!

The daft thing is that England are ranked higher by this ridiculous number-crunching garbage.Absolute joke.Played 5,won 5 and yet England are ranked above us.Not by me!!!!!!!!!You can put the stats where even Tonto wouldnt go! Wink

by **Biltong** Sun 18 Mar - 9:19

Taffineastbourne wrote:
biltongbek wrote:

Do you know the joke about when the Lone ranger was bitten by a snake?
Fraid so!

The daft thing is that England are ranked higher by this ridiculous number-crunching garbage.Absolute joke.Played 5,won 5 and yet England are ranked above us.Not by me!!!!!!!!!You can put the stats where even Tonto wouldnt go!

Now you know why I pay little attention to the rankings. and yes, Tonto won't go there. vomit

by Portnoy Sun 18 Mar - 9:27

Rankings before the 6Ns:

1(1)	NEW ZEALAND	91.43
2(2)	AUSTRALIA	87.99
3(3)	FRANCE	84.70
4(4)	SOUTH AFRICA	84.34
5(5)	ENGLAND	81.58
6(6)	IRELAND	80.65
7(7)	ARGENTINA	80.28
8(8)	WALES	79.61
9(9)	TONGA	76.63
10(10)	SCOTLAND	76.20
11(11)	SAMOA	75.81
12(12)	ITALY	73.99

by Taffineastbourne Sun 18 Mar - 9:43

And now??

by mystiroakey Sun 18 Mar - 9:46

1 nz
2 oz
3 SA
4 Eng
5 Wales
6 Frnace
7 Arg
8 Ire
9 ton
10 som
11 italy
12 scot

by Taffineastbourne Sun 18 Mar - 9:53

Thanks for that.

Got to laugh!

by mystiroakey Sun 18 Mar - 9:55

by Taffineastbourne Sun 18 Mar - 10:04

mystiroakey wrote:at?

If you have to ask I fear that I will be unable to explain it for you.Never mind.

by mystiroakey Sun 18 Mar - 10:07

its based on results taff- quite easy to follow and work out IRB World Rankings ... Part 1 - Page 15 732107

by Taffineastbourne Sun 18 Mar - 10:10

mystiroakey wrote:its based on results taff- quite easy to follow and work out

Who won the GS?.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 18 Mar - 10:26

I think if you look at rankings before and after the 6N, it looks about right. Wales and England had good tournaments (Wales with the slam, England with four wins including three away from home), while France's tournament was average at best, so England and Wales move above France.

Wales started the tournament roughly two ranking points behind England, that would require quite a big swing for them to overturn that. It didn't happen, so England are still ranked ahead of Wales. Scotland, Ireland and France all slip down a bit (or quite a lot in France's case), and Italy nudge above Scotland having beaten them.

by mystiroakey Sun 18 Mar - 10:34

Taffineastbourne wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:its based on results taff- quite easy to follow and work out
Who won the GS?.

wales did.

Asking that question just tells me you dont get the point of rankings or how they are worked out! All you had to do was beat up one SH team in the last couple of years and you would be above england- its not like you havent had the chances!!

by wales606 Sun 18 Mar - 11:11

LondonTiger wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:PSW, I think we'd need to win every one of those (excl. ABs) plus have some other countries' results go in our favour to make it into the top 8 by the time the RWC pools are drawn tho?

I hate to pour oil over troubled waters - but with the draw taking place prior to the AIs, it is not impossible for Scotland to fall out of the top 12!

Before the AIs?

Have to win the summer tour

(seems odd to me that winning the last game of the series will get you a lot more points than winning the first game)

2 wins over Aus should (?) be enough for Wales hopefully.

Who are England playing? SA?

by Woodstock Sun 18 Mar - 13:23

mystiroakey wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:its based on results taff- quite easy to follow and work out
Who won the GS?.

wales did.

Asking that question just tells me you dont get the point of rankings or how they are worked out! All you had to do was beat up one SH team in the last couple of years and you would be above england- its not like you havent had the chances!!

As has been quoted throughout this 6 Nations by players retired and playing and from most nations, they do not give a toss about the IRB rankings.

The joy of being higher in this pointles mass ofnumbers just proves you had a pretty crap season and did not beat Wales or win the Championship, Triple Crown, Grand Slam and get further than the Q Finals in New Zealand.

Enjoy your 4th clap

by mystiroakey Sun 18 Mar - 18:56

woodstock what joy have you witnessed from me in regards to the rankings?

there is a thread on it, it is very important to get the 4th spot, its a very basic system and obvious how and why it works and is used. I am not joyous about it at all- its you and taff that are annoyed by it, I am just answering questions and speaking facts! What wales need to worry about is how to beat SH sides and i would say the reason why wales are 5th in the rankings..

by SimonofSurrey Sun 18 Mar - 19:35

Any NH side with serious pretensions to global, rather than just regional, bragging rights will take the rankings in their stride as well as the draw for the RWC which flows from those rankings. The only NH country ever to have won the RWC did so having qualified for the knock out stages from a pool which included one of the SH3 - S Africa.

In response to the latest Anglo-Welsh e-mail exchanges above, 4th place or better will be earned by the NH side who beats the SH3 more consistently. What we do to each other is merely a sideshow in the greater scheme of things. It's all a question of whether you see regional superiority as an end in itself, or simply as a handy yardstick on the road to wider success.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sun 18 Mar - 20:39

mystiroakey wrote:at?

by robbo277 Sun 18 Mar - 21:30

According to the RWC 2015 site (from an article before the Six Nations): "With the leading nations all playing 10 or more internationals over the next 10 months" (link: http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2061086.html#rankings+take+added+focus+2012)

So I assume that the draw will take place on or around the 1st December again?

Also, there is no worry if Scotland slip below 12th place (except for the actual worry of slipping below 12th place), because only the 12 pre-qualified teams will be drawn at that date, with the other entrants to the draw (Europe 1, Europe 2, Africa 1 et cetera) all being unseeded. Scotland are a pre-qualified team, so will be seeded at least third.

The worry is surely for Ireland, who have slipped to 8th and have a tough tour to World Champions New Zealand. 9th place wouldn't be the end of the world, but it would have the makings of a potential pool of death - for Ireland and the teams they are drawn with.

by robbo277 Sun 18 Mar - 21:34

Just to annoy you ratings haters (and I know there are a lot of you Wink

) if South Africa narrowly win the first two tests against England and then play a bit of a change team in the third test (as they did against the Lions, albeit with a different coach), any England win would see England overtake South Africa.

by Guest Sun 18 Mar - 23:55

I've just had to remove a couple of posts for both being inflamatory and insulting. Grow up please posters (you know who you are) otherwise further action will be taken.

by gowales Mon 19 Mar - 0:29

Let me guess... Morg?

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Mar - 0:44

robbo277 wrote:Just to annoy you ratings haters (and I know there are a lot of you ) if South Africa narrowly win the first two tests against England and then play a bit of a change team in the third test (as they did against the Lions, albeit with a different coach), any England win would see England overtake South Africa.

Robbo, Heyneke Meyer has categorically stated he believes every test is a must win, so I doubt he will play a seconds team if he wins the first two tests.

by Guest Mon 19 Mar - 1:00

South Africa will be ranked number one by the end of November, Meyer is the business and it scares me to how far he can take this team,
we couldn't beat them when P Divvy was in charge.

by TycroesOsprey Mon 19 Mar - 2:16

viewtothegym wrote:South Africa will be ranked number one by the end of November, Meyer is the business and it scares me to how far he can take this team,
we couldn't beat them when P Divvy was in charge.

I think View is correct about this, SA are going to really challenge for the Quad Nations title this year. Australia still lack a pack fearsome enough to dominate games no matter how good their backs are (and they are very good) the forwards are always going to be an achilles heel. Im hopeful that Wales can win at least one match down under if not more. June is going to be a great month for rugby and Im on Holiday Yahoo

NZ now have to deal with the post world cup curse. Hansen does not impress me as a coach and he has some difficult decisions to make. Who will be captain? Does he jettison players who maybe have a season or two left but wont make 2015 or does he persevere with Henrys team? Most sides have gone into decline after the RWC and have struggled in the subsequent world cup. I dont think Hansen is the man to change that pattern, in fact Im of the opinion that He is the kind of coach who will accelerate the decline.

SA Have a new coach some experienced players who still have enough gas i the tank, probably the best hooker in the world and some really exciting players coming through for thei provinces. The only thing that can beat SA is themselves. Will their political situation allow Meyer to pick the best side? if it does the rest of the world should be worried. If the SARU cant do that then it will hamper them and the infighting taht hampered them after Whites RWC win will continue.

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Mar - 2:26

I think you guys are jumping the gun. Meyer still has to show his hand, we don't know who his assistant coaches are, we know he has been talking to victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez, we don't know in what capacity.

He has very strong links with hose two and it might just be the catalyst that continues springbok rugby in the same vain for another 4 years.

He will build a solid pack of forwards no doubt. but then you consider Morne Steyn and it will gaurantee one thing, gary owens till the sun goes down, and two wingers chasing ball, you will then expect a defensive game type, where he wil let the other team play the game and we wait for mistakes to counter from.

If and this is a big if, he decides to build the nxt generation springbok team with Hougaard and Lambie as pivots, it will tell us where he is going.

Until then, I won't be too confident.

by fa0019 Mon 19 Mar - 2:41

I agree with BB... SA are in a real transition year unlike AUS or NZ. They have lost so much experience in players such as Steenkamp, Smit, Bakkies, Matfield, Russouw, Brussouw, Du Preez.

Du Preez especially will be a big loss... he took a lot of heat away from his 10... whoever it was and his kicking was a strong weapon. Hougaard is a different type of player & requires a 10 who is very controlling.

There are no obvious replacements at lock, a couple of guys are holding their hands up but their entire lineout will have to be reworked.

For non bulls fans also, Meyer is still viewed with a little caution.... his bulls side revolved around a massive front 5 and a kicking 10. Well SA don't have that massive front 5 anymore which destroys that plan.... watched the bulls this season... they have been dire and all because they're struggling upfront.

He may be an improvement on PDV but its a different scenario... PDV inherited a team reaching their peak.... Meyer has to rebuild much of his team.

If SA can win their home games in the 4N this year I will think it will be as good as they can expect.

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Mar - 2:44

Fa, Spot on. By the way I watched Kitshof with a bit more interest on Friday night, and you were right the young man can certainly scrum. thumbsup

by Taylorman Mon 19 Mar - 4:33

viewtothegym wrote:South Africa will be ranked number one by the end of November.

by Taylorman Mon 19 Mar - 4:46

TycroesOsprey wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:South Africa will be ranked number one by the end of November, Meyer is the business and it scares me to how far he can take this team,
we couldn't beat them when P Divvy was in charge.

I think View is correct about this, SA are going to really challenge for the Quad Nations title this year. Australia still lack a pack fearsome enough to dominate games no matter how good their backs are (and they are very good) the forwards are always going to be an achilles heel. Im hopeful that Wales can win at least one match down under if not more. June is going to be a great month for rugby and Im on Holiday

NZ now have to deal with the post world cup curse. Hansen does not impress me as a coach and he has some difficult decisions to make. Who will be captain? Does he jettison players who maybe have a season or two left but wont make 2015 or does he persevere with Henrys team? Most sides have gone into decline after the RWC and have struggled in the subsequent world cup. I dont think Hansen is the man to change that pattern, in fact Im of the opinion that He is the kind of coach who will accelerate the decline.

SA Have a new coach some experienced players who still have enough gas i the tank, probably the best hooker in the world and some really exciting players coming through for thei provinces. The only thing that can beat SA is themselves. Will their political situation allow Meyer to pick the best side? if it does the rest of the world should be worried. If the SARU cant do that then it will hamper them and the infighting taht hampered them after Whites RWC win will continue.

Depressing reading there Tycroes...

Jury's obviously out on Hansen and it just depends what he's learnt under Henry though Ive my reservations as well.

The World cup 'curse' doesnt really apply to us...we went 20 straight undefeated after our other Wcup win and if anything caused the curse for others by going straight back into winning mode after not winning them. I think you'll find our immediate post world cup record is better than most for all 7 cups, primarily as we've usually something to prove at that point.

We've places to fill and with Thorne and Kaino out this year our pack is decidedly weaker already.

Meyer has huge challenges ahead, more than any other coach in that he has a mess to clean up. He needs to decide how SA want to play this year and with England doesn't really get a choice than to play 10 man, knowing SA are better at it than England, and with England's progress through the GS, at least 1 win out of the 3 is a real possibility.

That poses a conundrum for Meyer. If he had thoughts of changing the style long term, England are the worst team in the world to start doing that with.

by geoff999rugby Mon 19 Mar - 6:57

Actually Ireland have nothing to worry about re New Zealand.

They are so far behind New they could get stuffed in all 3 games and their mark would not go any lower

by wales606 Mon 19 Mar - 7:29

New Zealand and SA are going/have already lost a fair few playing from international rugby.

I think Aus will win the 4 nations - there pack isn't great, but hopefully they will stick with JOC 10 and Barnes 12 which will finally give them a reliable and defensive midfield combo without Cooper

by Taylorman Mon 19 Mar - 8:51

Yeah that's certainly a likely outcome. Oz have been through their rebuild for a couple of years now and we and SA are in similar positions with new coaches, players etc- albeit SA more than us.

For us its an exciting time to bring through the new players and we may be able to do that with Ireland if they're not as strong as usual.

Oz will continue to have this back up problem and rely heavily on key play makers so although they're solid when injury free, they're thin on the ground when it comes to quality and/ or experienced replacements.

They got a bit lucky injury wise last year when they played their best side every match at 3N time but some of the wheels fell off by the time the W'cup was over, the semi finally perhaps taking its toll (?) and Cooper pulling up in the 3/4 playoff.

SA is the biggest work in progress I agree, coach and core of the team changing guard but as with any good rugby tradition they'll see this as a huge opportunity... thumbsup

by Taylorman Mon 19 Mar - 8:52

wales606 wrote:New Zealand and SA are going/have already lost a fair few playing from international rugby.

I think Aus will win the 4 nations - there pack isn't great, but hopefully they will stick with JOC 10 and Barnes 12 which will finally give them a reliable and defensive midfield combo without Cooper

Meant to say though...on Cooper, he'll definitely be back. He's too good not to be...

by Woodstock Mon 19 Mar - 15:16

SimonofSurrey wrote:Any NH side with serious pretensions to global, rather than just regional, bragging rights will take the rankings in their stride as well as the draw for the RWC which flows from those rankings. The only NH country ever to have won the RWC did so having qualified for the knock out stages from a pool which included one of the SH3 - S Africa.

In response to the latest Anglo-Welsh e-mail exchanges above, 4th place or better will be earned by the NH side who beats the SH3 more consistently. What we do to each other is merely a sideshow in the greater scheme of things. It's all a question of whether you see regional superiority as an end in itself, or simply as a handy yardstick on the road to wider success.

Regional bragging rights hahahahahaha nice one, the NH is a region.

Mate let me tell you if Wales remain in the 2nd tier of WC qualification then I would be happy to be drawn against England as it will be a breeze to the QF's. Any of the other decent top 4 would be a bigger challenge but doable by 2015.

Another thing, I imagine you are pretty young, every game is is a TEST and if you think teams just select for 3 years inbetween WC's you have delusions.

You can go on about 2003 til the cows come home, it is in the past.

by Portnoy Mon 19 Mar - 23:35

For the archive (as ever new rankings are posted at top of page/op)

6Ns round 5:

Sat 17th Mar 12
12:30 Italy v Scotland Stadio Olympico
14:45 Wales v France, Millennium Stadium

Sun 18th Mar 12
17:00 England v Ireland, Twickenham

Current standings:

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 91.43
2(2) AUSTRALIA 87.99
3(3) SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
4(6) ENGLAND 82.93
5(5) WALES 82.62
6(4) FRANCE 82.61
7(7) IRELAND 80.55
8(8) ARGENTINA 80.28
9(9) TONGA 76.63
10(10) SAMOA 75.81
11(11) SCOTLAND 74.69
12(12) ITALY 73.33
13(13) CANADA 72.92

Possible outcomes:

ita (on 72.33 points) at home -vs- sco (on 74.69 points)
Poss Outcome /Rating Point Exchange /New 'home' Rating /New 'away' Rating / Will 'winner' overtake 'loser'?

If ita win by 1-15 points 0.836 74.17 73.85 Yes
If ita win by more than 15 1.254 74.58 73.44 Yes
If result is a draw 0.164 73.17 74.85 No
If sco win by 1-15 points 1.164 72.17 75.85 No
If sco win by more than 15 1.746 71.58 76.44 No

wal (on 82.62 points) at home -vs- fra (on 82.61 points)
Poss Outcome /Rating Point Exchange /New 'home' Rating /New 'away' Rating / Will 'winner' overtake 'loser'?

If wal win by 1-15 points 0.699 83.32 81.91 No
If wal win by more than 15 1.048 83.67 81.56 No
If result is a draw 0.301 82.32 82.91 Yes
If fra win by 1-15 points 1.301 81.32 83.91 Yes
If fra win by more than 15 1.952 80.67 84.56 Yes

eng (on 82.93 points) at home -vs- ire (on 80.55 points)
Poss Outcome /Rating Point Exchange /New 'home' Rating /New 'away' Rating / Will 'winner' overtake 'loser'?

If eng win by 1-15 points 0.462 83.39 80.09 No
If eng win by more than 15 0.693 83.62 79.86 No
If result is a draw 0.538 82.39 81.09 No
If ire win by 1-15 points 1.538 81.39 82.09 Yes
If ire win by more than 15 2.307 80.62 82.86 Yes

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 20 Mar - 0:20

Woodstock wrote:
You can go on about 2003 til the cows come home, it is in the past.

So is last weekend. Move on.

by mystiroakey Tue 20 Mar - 4:46

but you see everything that happened after 2003 is vaild, everything before isnt- apart from teh 70's offcourse- thats vaild IRB World Rankings ... Part 1 - Page 15 732107

by maestegmafia Tue 20 Mar - 8:15

Outside the top nations I notice Belgium are on the rise. Great news to see countries like Belgium start taking an interest and gain a few places.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 20 Mar - 9:50

Outside the top nations I notice ~~Belgium~~ Wales are on the rise. Great news to see countries like ~~Belgium~~ Wales start taking an interest and gain a few places
Whistle

by **Biltong** Tue 20 Mar - 9:52

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Great news to see countries like ~~Belgium~~ Wales start taking an interest

Only now?

by Woodstock Tue 20 Mar - 10:45

by robbo277 Tue 20 Mar - 11:55

Belgium will be in the European Nations Cup Division 1A next year, with Ukraine dropping to 1B. Georgia have already won the Championship, even though there are a couple of games still to play.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 20 Mar - 12:06

Spoiler:

by Woodstock Tue 20 Mar - 12:11

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Spoiler:

2012 - TRIPLE CROWN - GRAND SLAM - CHAMPIONSHIP.

Wales will be remembered for the above and 3 GRAND SLAMS = 3 CLEAN SWEEP Championships.

England getting all excited about what exactly? hahahahahaha keep it saisman

by lauriehow Wed 21 Mar - 6:40

Seems a travesty as if Wales had played France before England we would now be above England not behind, assuming all results were the same as they ended up. This is because Wales would have gained more from beating a team above them than they did by beating France when they had already gone below Wales. All will now depend on results in the summer tours I guess.

by Portnoy Wed 21 Mar - 7:09

lauriehow wrote:Seems a travesty as if Wales had played France before England we would now be above England not behind, assuming all results were the same as they ended up. This is because Wales would have gained more from beating a team above them than they did by beating France when they had already gone below Wales. All will now depend on results in the summer tours I guess.

Hmmm. But then you'd have to know what the order of games would have been, go back in times and reprocess all of the results from the anomaly.

And probably replay all the matches.

Maybe an England v Wales final game would have been on the cards...

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 21 Mar - 7:13

lauriehow wrote:Seems a travesty as if Wales had played France before England we would now be above England not behind, assuming all results were the same as they ended up. This is because Wales would have gained more from beating a team above them than they did by beating France when they had already gone below Wales. All will now depend on results in the summer tours I guess.

Travesty is going a bit far, look how close the ratings gap is. A little bit of luck perhaps but the England did help soften up France and give them nothing to play for.

Look at it this way. This summer all Wales have to do is match England results to go above them. Infact they could lose by more and still climb above England. Im guessing that wont be a travesty.

by Morgannwg Wed 21 Mar - 7:15

Peter, given there is a summer tour to go I don't see why fans are moaning about the rankings. Plenty of time to get that fourth spot before the world cup draw!

by lauriehow Wed 21 Mar - 7:17

Yes - Travesty was too harsh = more a little unfair - that is life - move on and do well in the summer and all could be well.

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