Ireland v USA - Live Match Thread & Post Match Discussion

by **Pal Joey** Sun 11 Sep 2011, 7:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Ireland v USA, Sunday 11/9 4:00pm (EST), New Plymouth

Ireland (15-1): Geordan Murphy; Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy, Keith Earls, Jonathan Sexton, Conor Murray, Jamie Heaslip, Shane Jennings, Stephen Ferris; Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callagha; Mike Ross, Rory Best, Tom Court.

Res: Jerry Flannery, Tony Buckley, Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Eoin Reddan, Sean O'Brien, Andrew Trimble.

United States (15-1): Blaine Scully, Takudzwa Ngwenya, Paul Emerick, Andrew Suniula, James Paterson; Roland Suniula, Mike Petri, Nic Johnson, Todd Clever (capt), Louis Stanfill, Hayden Smith, John van der Giessen, Shawn Pittman, Phil Thiel, Mike MacDonald.

Res: Chris Biller, Matekitonga Moeakiola, Scott LaValla, Pat Danahy, Tim Usasz, Nese Malifa, Colin Hawley.

by **rodders** Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:36 pm

Thomond please point out where I've claimed to be a bigger Munster fan than you? Thats not likely is it?

How the feck is our lineout a big weapon against Australia? Before Sunday when did we last win all our lineouts or disrupt the oppositions? Our lineout hasn't been a weapon since 2007.

Do you seriously think we will trouble Australia by peppering the corners and letting them run the ball back at us?

The only way we will trouble Australia is to retain the ball and take them through multiple phases of defending. Our backrow will be able to punch holes in the 10 channel and if our ball retention is good then we can hurt them through the middle and frustrate them but if we kick the ball away then they will tear us apart for sure.

We need to go for this one and not play conservatively as that will play into their hands.

by Thomond Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:41 pm

When have we retained the ball for ten phases,our handling has been so poor we have barely kept it for that long. Our backrow mightn't create too many holes. They shift Cooper to 15 in defence. I don't think our handling is good enough to retain the ball for long periods. It is possibly the best option to beat them,but they way we have been with the ball going to the corners is a safer bet. The wingers should then be doing their job and prevent quick throws.

About the superfan thing,apologies I misinterpreted one of your earlier comments

by Glas a du Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:43 pm

Court is a better scrumager than Healy and is used to Best. Ross is also a good scrumager. The scrum is one place where Ireland can turn the screw on the Aussies. They are better than they were, but don't like it up em. Pick and drive up the guts, rolling malls, repetitive scrums. Their forwards will switch off. Pocock is feckall use against a rolling maul.

by BlueMuff Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:44 pm

Its actually laughable all the excuses that Leinster fans make for Sexton. For 2 years now they have come up with excuse after excuse mainly blaming the SH.

His passing was terrible on Sat. Kept going back on the blind side when the whole width of the pitch was screaming at him.

I have also been saying for a long time that his place kicking is suspect.

by Feckless Rogue Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:46 pm

Deccie doen't seem to rate Wallace or McFadden highly enough to start either against Australia. D'arcy isn't playing well. I'd like to see ROG start at 10 with Sexton at 12. It's a game we're almost definately going to lose, so why not try it? It might work well. We have a problem with creativity in the midfield, and Sexton isn't bossing games the way he does for Leinster. This might solve both problems?!? Maybe?

by **rodders** Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:47 pm

Thomond wrote:
About the superfan thing,apologies I misinterpreted one of your earlier comments

No bother Thomond. I didn't mean to go off on one too, I jsut get frustrated when people presume a vote for Sexton and suggesting we keep the ball in hand gets mis interpreted that we throw the ball around willy nilly.

You are right about our poor handling but we managed to do it against England and Leinster have done it all season so the abilty to retain the ball is there. If we can't retain the ball we are fecked whatever we do.

Whoever starts at 9 and 10 will need the performances of their lives thats for sure.

by BlueMuff Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:50 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Deccie doen't seem to rate Wallace or McFadden highly enough to start either against Australia. D'arcy isn't playing well. I'd like to see ROG start at 10 with Sexton at 12. It's a game we're almost definately going to lose, so why not try it? It might work well. We have a problem with creativity in the midfield, and Sexton isn't bossing games the way he does for Leinster. This might solve both problems?!? Maybe?

I would love to see this also.For the brief spell against that they played 10 12 they linked up very well.

by Sin é Mon 12 Sep 2011, 9:53 pm

roddersm wrote:
Thomond wrote:I agree with what Gibson said. ROG is the many for the OZ game,we play open rugby we will be crucified. We currently do not have the skill levels to play like this. Too many unforced errors. Cup rugby and some luck then maybe.

If we boot the ball away we'll be crucified. If ROG get's isolated we'll be crucified. If ROG ships the ball along the backline, like he's been doing all season, we'll be crucified.

Did anyone see how easy Emerick picked up that intercept? Yes D'arcy threw the pass but anyone who's done any analysis on O'Gara will see how predictable he has become in open play.

Sexton at least can play off the cuff and take the ball into contact. He'll keep the Australian defence honest and commit defenders.

Who is suggesting we throw the ball around? Some of you seem to think Sexton has been throwing the ball around kamakaze style and ROG has been putting in commanding controlled performances. I'm not sure what rugby you've been watching but ROG has been spreading the ball to the touchline all season, without much success and bar a few virtuoso cameo displays hasn't put in a top display in an Ireland shirt in a couple of seasons, whereas Sexton was the driving force in Leinsters HEC victory and at the helm for Irelands only top performance in the past 2 seasons.

Why would ROG (or Sexton) be getting isolated?

ROG is predictable in that the opposition are always waiting for him to put a nice little dink in over their heads which keeps them well back in their own half. Better than any monster tackling outhalf. He keeps about 3 players honest with his 'predictability'.

It might interest you to know that in recent games where they started, Sexton has ran the ball on average about 5 times each game. O'Gara has run it on average 4 times each game and O'Gara has beaten more defenders than Sexton (perhaps because of his unpredictability)!

by Sin é Mon 12 Sep 2011, 10:10 pm

roddersm wrote:Thomond please point out where I've claimed to be a bigger Munster fan than you? Thats not likely is it?

How the feck is our lineout a big weapon against Australia? Before Sunday when did we last win all our lineouts or disrupt the oppositions? Our lineout hasn't been a weapon since 2007.

Do you seriously think we will trouble Australia by peppering the corners and letting them run the ball back at us?

The only way we will trouble Australia is to retain the ball and take them through multiple phases of defending. Our backrow will be able to punch holes in the 10 channel and if our ball retention is good then we can hurt them through the middle and frustrate them but if we kick the ball away then they will tear us apart for sure.

We need to go for this one and not play conservatively as that will play into their hands.

Our lineout won us the GS for feck sake - that was in 2009. And Paul O'Connell took SA to the cleaners in 2009 (remember POC started counting in Africaans). Our lineout disimproved when Flannery got injured and John Hayes wasn't starting.

Who said we would pepper the corners - all you need is to have that threat. Bowe running onto a dink over their heads! Sexton's restarts are also very poor.

Ireland found it very difficult to penetrate the US defense at the weekend. I'd expect Australia to be as good, if not better.

Interesting bit of info - the Oz half-backs kicked the ball the most in Super Rugby this season for the Reds (according to Matt Williams) and one of the reasons why it seems the Reds didn't keep Will Chambers is because he doesn't kick well enough.

by **rodders** Mon 12 Sep 2011, 10:14 pm

OK Sin lets just see who gets selected eh? I think it will be ROG and think Kidney had already decided before Sunday.

If we play well and win I don't care who starts but prior to the warm-ups I felt the team to beat Australia is the one which beat England in March

I still think O'Gara can be predictable when he runs the ball because he always ships the ball wide and if he has to take the tackle often gets turned over and I'm just not convinced we have the pack to play the territorial game that rog is best at but Sexton does need to improve.

by Sin é Mon 12 Sep 2011, 10:43 pm

roddersm wrote:OK Sin lets just see who gets selected eh? I think it will be ROG and think Kidney had already decided before Sunday.

If we play well and win I don't care who starts but prior to the warm-ups I felt the team to beat Australia is the one which beat England in March

I still think O'Gara can be predictable when he runs the ball because he always ships the ball wide and if he has to take the tackle often gets turned over and I'm just not convinced we have the pack to play the territorial game that rog is best at but Sexton does need to improve.

O'Gara has not been turned over once in his last 4 games (I haven't looked back any further).
Sexton has been turned over x 2 times in the same number of games.

Its also interesting that O'Gara managed to offload once. Sexton hasn't not managed one offload.

I wouldn't worry too much about that though. Quade Cooper was turned over 3 times by the Italians at the weekend and Genia was turned over once.

by **rodders** Mon 12 Sep 2011, 11:03 pm

Sin I hope you are right sir! guinness

by asoreleftshoulder Mon 12 Sep 2011, 11:18 pm

I don't think Sexton or RoG will make a difference unless our forwards learn to protect the ball at the ruck.
I thought Murray was only okay but one thing he did much better than Reddan on a number of occasions was join a ruck and protect the ball when we were under pressure,Reddan was more apt to try to pass which is a bit risky.

by Irishhoneymonster Tue 13 Sep 2011, 1:11 am

Thank fec that this discussion has got a bit more realism now about Ireland's performances than it had in first wee bit after the match had finished. Ireland were pants, and have been for good while with only the odd good performance.

With regards to Sexton/Rog debate, when Sexton first started playing for Ireland the main differences we thought he brought was that he was better suited to Ireland's attacking game, and his defence was better. I agree that his defence is better and he may be a better option for attacking penetrative Rugby but we have zero penetration. Therefore that part of the argument (attack/penetration) has been neutralised.

The problem I have with Sexton is that I know he can kick the corners for territory but he just doesn't do it often enough or at the right time. I think alot of people here are underestimating the importance of the territorial game. It gives the team, especially the forwards, a huge lift and gives us the chance to keep pressure on the oppostion. Also, it can be very demoralising to the opposition to keep being pinned back. We really could have done with this against USA and in many other games in last year or 2.

If Sexton could do this one thing effectively, or if he was streets ahead of ROG in the areas that he holds the upper hand I would go for him. I was thinking up unitl the USA game that Sexton is the man for the job but that I still wouldn't mind if ROG got the nod. Now I am completely for ROG because Sexton just doesn't want to kick the corners and give us something to fight for. And now that we have no penetration whatsoever territory is more important than ever. Having said all this I don't think Sexton is a bad option as it were, I just wish he would kick the bloody corners more!

by **rodders** Tue 13 Sep 2011, 8:50 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I don't think Sexton or RoG will make a difference unless our forwards learn to protect the ball at the ruck.
I thought Murray was only okay but one thing he did much better than Reddan on a number of occasions was join a ruck and protect the ball when we were under pressure,Reddan was more apt to try to pass which is a bit risky.

I agree with all of this. Our failure to commit numbers to the rucks and clear out effectively has been probably the biggest problem in the last two games.

IrishHoneyMonster: You are spot on about the importance of playing territory and kicking to the corners. Sexton does not do this enough, especially when the conditions are bad. However ROG is running the ball a lot too so I think they are playing to instructions rather then playing their natural games.

I don't think a territorial kicking game is a great idea against teams like Australia or NZ because they have the ability to run and score from anywhere on the field. It's a much more effective tactic and one we need to use more against the more forward and defensive orientated teams like Italy, SA or England in my opinion.

The most worrying thing from our point of view is how slow we are to adapt our game plan to the opposition. It's almost as if we don't do any analysis on our opponents and just go out and throw the ball around.

On the positive side it was good to see us utilise the maul against the USA. The set piece was excellent too but it seems every time we fix one problem another one appears.

by blackcanelion Tue 13 Sep 2011, 9:04 am

Just got back from the game.Roddersm, I'd agree with you. Watching it live, the ball from the rucks was slow and the constant running at a set defence made it pretty easy for the US. Haven't seen the TV footage, but got the feeling that PC stepped up in the second half and OGaras kicking made all the difference.

by **rodders** Tue 13 Sep 2011, 9:33 am

There seems to be a lot off self delusion coming out of the Ireland camp from the media reports.

Earls is coming out with stuff about wanting to be the star of the WC and how Gaffney has said they've never looked so good in training.

Over the past month all we've heard is how great pre-season has gone and how fit we are, how well we've gone in training, how much better it is han 2007.... blah blah blah... but there is very little evidence to support this on the pitch.

O'Callaghan and ROG have recently made the excuse that we saw the warm ups as trials rather than tests and Gert Smal is now suggesting that we are getting pummeled at the breakdown because we are sticking to teh rules and everyone else is rucking illegally.

I think it's time for our players and coaches to put up or shut up. I'm sick off hearing how happy our camp is and how a great performance is just around the corner. The time for a big performance is long past and these players can't live off their HEC, Magners or GS winners medals forever.

There were positives against the USA but its time we stopped talking like a top team and started playing like one.

by Feagh McHugh Tue 13 Sep 2011, 9:36 am

The argument over who should start number ten has become nice and simplistic. "Sexton cant kick the corners and Rog cant run a back line".

Simplistic is nice and its easy to blame one player for a whole teams failings, and of course even better when we have one our "own" to replace him.

Personally I would start Sexton but don't have a problem with Rog starting both are quality tens in their own right.

Houdini wouldn't get Ireland's back line moving at the moment, until we get sufficient go forward ball from the pack, we secure our rucks, have a 9 who can give us a performance, a midfield that will run some lines and look for ball, backline that dont constantly drop ball over run passes, throw silly passes, execute some moves and Earls and co remove their blinkers and try an offload every now and then.

Rog or Sexton are not going to be able fix these problems! These are problems for Kidney (which is another days talking)

If the above happened then either Sexton or Rog would do for me as both of these men are quality IRISH tens.

by BlueMuff Tue 13 Sep 2011, 9:51 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I don't think Sexton or RoG will make a difference unless our forwards learn to protect the ball at the ruck.
I thought Murray was only okay but one thing he did much better than Reddan on a number of occasions was join a ruck and protect the ball when we were under pressure,Reddan was more apt to try to pass which is a bit risky.

Absolutely spot on

by Sin é Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:03 am

I think the difference between O'Gara & Sexton is that O'Gara has the confidence to change the tactic and try something different. For instance, Rodders thinks that O'Gara ran the ball more because he was instructed to - I'd say he runs the ball more because he knows that it what is best to do now in a given situation.

The reason why he probably doesn't kick so much is that he knew our lineout was worse than awful recently.

The outhalf has to be able to relieve the pressure off the pack as well. Its no fun spending your game defending your goal line (though the US were very good at this the other day).

The outhalf is the brains of the team. The ball was coming out too quickly to the backs a lot too quickly. Some of the backs must have been calling for it. I think Paul O'Connell took over in the 2nd half and stopped that happening a bit more.

Rodders - what do you expect the players to say - I'm going to have an awful world cup, Gaffney says we are Poopie, we're all totally depressed in camp. I hope Keith Earls is a star of the world cup. I hope his confidence is high because he is a confidence player. The players and staff are going to be continually asked what the atmosphere is like in camp, particularly after the last world cup.

by **rodders** Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:19 am

Sin the players can say what ever they want if they back it up on the pitch. I'd love to see Keith Earls be the star of the WC but he'll have to play far better than he did on Saturday to do that. On current form he'll be lucky to get a starting spot.

If ROG thinks it was the right call to kick the ball away in the opponents 22 and call a backline move inside his own half when we had a driving maul rumbling it's way up field then he certainly does not know what to do best in a given situation.

by D24tress Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:21 am

Glas a du wrote:Court is a better scrumager than Healy and is used to Best. Ross is also a good scrumager. The scrum is one place where Ireland can turn the screw on the Aussies. They are better than they were, but don't like it up em. Pick and drive up the guts, rolling malls, repetitive scrums. Their forwards will switch off. Pocock is feckall use against a rolling maul.

No court is not a better scrummager then healy, the aussie scrum has come on leaps and bounds aswell and will be grand against ours, also there 2nd row has been playing well over the last few weeks and they prob have better lineout options in the back row.

by Boyne Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:25 am

No- you'd expect them to shut up and say nothing. Rodders is 100% spot on.

If we dont beat Oz or at least put in 80 honest minutes, Kidney and Co. are going to look mighty stupid.

Superstar of the WC??? Needs to secure his place 1st!!!

Quarter finals!!??? We need to beat Italy 1st.

I think it was G Murphy on the radio this morning saying something like, "whoever wins this game at the weekend will almost definitely win the group"

We all know its true, but why not say NOTHING instead of bringing more pressure to themselves.

Its around the corner. We are training very well. We are a happy camp. Lets all sing cum by ya around the campfire and go white water rafting.

I actually see us doing well, because if we fall flat on our faces, there will be dinosaur egg on some faces.

Kidneys more than anyone.

by FitzStephen Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:30 am

It probably has been mentioned in the 12 pages but we were playing without our three best ball carriers - O'Brien, Healy and Trimble. That lack of go-forward was our biggest issue imo and the reason that we looked increasingly out of ideas as the match went on. Ferris seemed to be the only man to make metres against USA, altho Best did well on occasions. Couple that with a lack of numbers at the ruck and it was shambolic.

If we get those three guys back in against Oz, I hope that there will be a marked improvement. For me D'Arcy and BOD to start. I'm not looking for much in attack from them just to stop Ioane, Beale and O'Connor switches on the gain line. They defend well (usually) and that is why they must be centres. I don't agree with playing Sexton at 12.

When we have the ball, I want Reddan's fast service to Sexton to get Trimble, Ferris, Healy and O'Brien rumbling into the midfield. That is the game that Kidney wants and I believe it is the only way to beat them. As mentioned Sexton must start varying his game because McCabe and Pocock will punish us on second and third phase tackles. He has a big boot so he should chuffing use it - and make sure you hit the crowd!

Thank God the set piece is looking decent...

by Sin é Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:38 am

roddersm wrote:Sin the players can say what ever they want if they back it up on the pitch. I'd love to see Keith Earls be the star of the WC but he'll have to play far better than he did on Saturday to do that. On current form he'll be lucky to get a starting spot.

If ROG thinks it was the right call to kick the ball away in the opponents 22 and call a backline move inside his own half when we had a driving maul rumbling it's way up field then he certainly does not know what to do best in a given situation.

You can't blame the players from saying anything if they are asked. They have to talk to the media. At least Earls made a line break against the US - unlike most of the others. I think you are far too critical of his performance. Perhaps if he got a run in the same position and some of the others in the team had the talent to be shifted around like he is, he might be a star of the world cup.

If that kick had come off (as it so often has done), O'Gara would have been a hero.

Are you trying to say that the pack should have mauled the whole way from their own half! The ball was going to come out at some stage and there could have been the same intercept try. Emerick would have still got the try as there was no cover defence.

by BlueMuff Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:46 am

Boyne wrote:No- you'd expect them to shut up and say nothing. Rodders is 100% spot on.

If we dont beat Oz or at least put in 80 honest minutes, Kidney and Co. are going to look mighty stupid.

I actually see us doing well, because if we fall flat on our faces, there will be dinosaur egg on some faces.

Kidneys more than anyone.

Boyne the place is crawling with media. Do you really expect them to say nothing. Are you that naive? Not everyboyd has Deccie ability to say nothing. Plus players are trying to convince themselves that everything will get better. Give them a break.

You are just waiting for the team to fail so you can say you were right.

by D24tress Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:47 am

O'garas kick didnt bother me, he tried something it didnt come off
thats the problem with ireland one mistake and you are hung out to dry, who is going to try anything if thats the case, players need to be able to express themselves try things think outside the box

now what did annoy me was trimble kicking the ball away

by Sin é Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:48 am

FitStephen - welcome!

Digby Ioane is injured. Against the US, Earls was defending the No. 13 channel a fair bit, probably because of BOD not being fully fit.

by **rodders** Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:48 am

Sin I think Earls did ok and have defended him on here. However making a solitary linebreak and losing possession and then talking about being the star of the WC is just deluded. I'm sure the quote was taken out of context but it was a stupid thing to say given Irelands and his own stuttering form.

We should have kept the maul going until it had been haulted or an attacking opportunity had presented itself. It was pure blind panic that led us to move the ball wide in that position when we had no chance of scoring against a well organised USA defence.

If that kick had of come off O'Gara would not have been a hero, he'd have been lucky. You don't kick the ball away in your opponents 22.

by Standulstermen Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:58 am

D24tress wrote:O'garas kick didnt bother me, he tried something it didnt come off
thats the problem with ireland one mistake and you are hung out to dry, who is going to try anything if thats the case, players need to be able to express themselves try things think outside the box

now what did annoy me was trimble kicking the ball away

You dont see a staggering inconsistency in what you just said??

Trimble kicked the ball away in his own 22 (a stupid mistake i know) but from a massively defensive situation.
ROG kicked front foot ball away in the opposition 22 (just as Sexton did in the first half) when a bit of patience and ball retention may have seen us open up the US defence. A kick in that situation is 50/50 at best from an Irish perspective.

Also ROG's kick is 10 seconds earlier than Trimbles so you cannot argue we had time when ROG kicked and none when Trimble did.

I should also add that i think ROG should come in and i have been impressed with him over the warm ups

by Sin é Tue 13 Sep 2011, 10:59 am

roddersm wrote:Sin I think Earls did ok and have defended him on here. However making a solitary linebreak and losing possession and then talking about being the star of the WC is just deluded. I'm sure the quote was taken out of context but it was a stupid thing to say given Irelands and his own stuttering form.

We should have kept the maul going until it had been haulted or an attacking opportunity had presented itself. It was pure blind panic that led us to move the ball wide in that position when we had no chance of scoring against a well organised USA defence.

If that kick had of come off O'Gara would not have been a hero, he'd have been lucky. You don't kick the ball away in your opponents 22.

If Earls claimed he was already the star of the world cup, you might have something to moan about. All he says is that he wants to be a star of the world cup. I hope our other 29 players out there want to be a star of the world up.

You even think his quote might have been taken out of context and you are moaning about it. Very Happy

I can think of at least 3 occasions off the top of my head when O'Gara did that and a try was scored. (magners Final - Earls try, Perp. v Munster - bonus point try by D. Howlett, and in the 6Ns - David Wallace I think).

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:01 am

I'd like to point out that the 2nd Bowe try was more Darcy than anyone else, really dislike the guy but he played the screen pass behind Ferris not Rog or BOD.

Unfortunatly it was the same move that was called for the intercept try.

I agree with everything Feadh said a bit above

by FitzStephen Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:03 am

Cheers Sin,

Ioane's out? Not sure that will help us much, tho I suppose it is to be seen if Deans goes with AAC or Faingaa in centre and AAC/JOC on the wing.

Still feeling confident tho about Ireland's chances esp if Earls lives up to his (own) billing. If would like to see him at 15 again even tho Genia kicks a helluva lot. Perhaps the more physical Trimble will defend at 13 v Oz? Hate to think we have to carry our captain - SA get grief for doing it.

O'Gara's kick seemed to sit up perfectly for the US full back - had he angled it a wee bit more towards the posts Earlsy would have been in and we'd be sitting pretty.

by Sin é Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:07 am

Standulstermen wrote:
ROG kicked front foot ball away in the opposition 22 (just as Sexton did in the first half) when a bit of patience and ball retention may have seen us open up the US defence. A kick in that situation is 50/50 at best from an Irish perspective.

The US defence was keeping them out all day. Why would it change in the last few minutes. By the way, I'd say the success rate of that kick from ROG is about 75%.

by Standulstermen Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:13 am

Nonsense Sin. I would have no problem with that kick had he done it at any stage in the game. It was fairly well executed but it is at best a 50 50 that close to the try line. (and we were unfortunate that Joubert was having a shocker)

I agree with you regarding the US defence. They kept us out all day apart from the 3 times that they didnt.

The point is that we are lambasting Trimble for kicking the ball away and yet absolving ROG for doing it in a much more advantageous position. As i have already said i think ROG has answered his critics and should be our number one 10 but the inconsistency in what people are saying regarding those two kicks is staggering.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:16 am

Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:
ROG kicked front foot ball away in the opposition 22 (just as Sexton did in the first half) when a bit of patience and ball retention may have seen us open up the US defence. A kick in that situation is 50/50 at best from an Irish perspective.

The US defence was keeping them out all day. Why would it change in the last few minutes. By the way, I'd say the success rate of that kick from ROG is about 75%.

Well they'd be a bit more tired now I'm gonna reckon. He could always have held onto the ball gone through some phases and seen if they'd cracked or given away a penalty to go for a scrum or something.

Don't agree with it being 75% sucess rate although I agree that if it had bounced on a bit more than it had beyond the post then earls would probably have got it as long as he didn't knock it on.

by **rodders** Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:17 am

Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:
ROG kicked front foot ball away in the opposition 22 (just as Sexton did in the first half) when a bit of patience and ball retention may have seen us open up the US defence. A kick in that situation is 50/50 at best from an Irish perspective.

The US defence was keeping them out all day. Why would it change in the last few minutes. By the way, I'd say the success rate of that kick from ROG is about 75%.

We scored 3 tries and would have scored 4 if Bowe hadn't knocked on so the US defence wasn't keeping us out all day at all.

Kicking the ball away in your opponents 22 is a sign of panic and not the mark of an experienced player on top of his game.

If ROG does start he'll need to buck up his ideas because he has been rubbish in his last few starts for Ireland. He showed no control whatsoever against England or France and kicked the game away against Wales in the 6N.

Sexton is not in great form but neither is ROG.

by FitzStephen Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:25 am

Time for Paddy? Whistle

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:28 am

I honestly think Paddy should start at 12.

by asoreleftshoulder Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:28 am

Lol that would set the cat among the pigeons.

In fairness he deserves a shot at 12 imo.

by Boyne Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:30 am

You are just waiting for the team to fail so you can say you were right.

No, Jimbob. "I am wanting" them to do well, as I always do. But you and the other Munster hacks always relish and delight when Leinster players don't play well. I can see you rubbing your hands at every mistake.

by Boyne Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:33 am

Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:
ROG kicked front foot ball away in the opposition 22 (just as Sexton did in the first half) when a bit of patience and ball retention may have seen us open up the US defence. A kick in that situation is 50/50 at best from an Irish perspective.

The US defence was keeping them out all day. Why would it change in the last few minutes. By the way, I'd say the success rate of that kick from ROG is about 75%.

Im kind of sick of you pulling cowpat statistics out of your whole all the time. I'd say you talk utter shoite 99.9% of the time. Even sleep talk shoite.

There's a stat for you.

by Sin é Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:36 am

Standulstermen wrote:Nonsense Sin. I would have no problem with that kick had he done it at any stage in the game. It was fairly well executed but it is at best a 50 50 that close to the try line. (and we were unfortunate that Joubert was having a shocker)

I agree with you regarding the US defence. They kept us out all day apart from the 3 times that they didnt.

The point is that we are lambasting Trimble for kicking the ball away and yet absolving ROG for doing it in a much more advantageous position. As i have already said i think ROG has answered his critics and should be our number one 10 but the inconsistency in what people are saying regarding those two kicks is staggering.

I just watched rewatched both - if the kick had another half metre on it, Earls was in. Maybe we see ROG doing this a fair bit and it usually comes off. The US had just disrupted an Irish maul, so they were not going to be able to maul it in.

Tommy Bowe was back with Trimble and another Irish player was pretty close. I have no idea why he kicked it back to them as there was only one US player heading towards him. (By the way, I have not lambasted Trimble for kicking the ball away - I've barely mentioned it).

Match is now up on RTE player: http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1111887

by BlueMuff Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:36 am

Boyne wrote:
You are just waiting for the team to fail so you can say you were right.

No, Jimbob. "I am wanting" them to do well, as I always do. But you and the other Munster hacks always relish and delight when Leinster players don't play well. I can see you rubbing your hands at every mistake.

Jimbob

You are some of your Leinster compadrades are circuling the wagons ready to pounce of Kidney.

by BlueMuff Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:38 am

Boyne wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:
ROG kicked front foot ball away in the opposition 22 (just as Sexton did in the first half) when a bit of patience and ball retention may have seen us open up the US defence. A kick in that situation is 50/50 at best from an Irish perspective.

The US defence was keeping them out all day. Why would it change in the last few minutes. By the way, I'd say the success rate of that kick from ROG is about 75%.

Im kind of sick of you pulling cowpat statistics out of your whole all the time. I'd say you talk utter shoite 99.9% of the time. Even sleep talk shoite.

There's a stat for you.

by Boyne Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:41 am

BlueMuff wrote:
Boyne wrote:
You are just waiting for the team to fail so you can say you were right.

No, Jimbob. "I am wanting" them to do well, as I always do. But you and the other Munster hacks always relish and delight when Leinster players don't play well. I can see you rubbing your hands at every mistake.

Jimbob You are some of your Leinster compadrades are circuling the wagons ready to pounce of Kidney.

Is he not the fluffing coach!!!????

Anyway, if he deserves it he will get it- mild manners or not.

He needs to pull it out of the bag. I am sick of seeing a fantastic group of players play like cr ap

by **rodders** Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:45 am

Boyne wrote:Im kind of sick of you pulling cowpat statistics out of your whole all the time. I'd say you talk utter shoite 99.9% of the time. Even sleep talk shoite.

There's a stat for you.

Thats harsh boyne(funny though Laugh

). Sin does make some good points although to be fair Sin did say yesterday that the kick would have resulted in a try 9 times out of 10 and today thats down to 75% of the time.

Why don't we just agree that that particular kick had a 0% success rate? Wink

I have no idea why Trimble kicked that ball away. Maybe no one told him about the bonus point rule? It was very odd.

by Sin é Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:46 am

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:
ROG kicked front foot ball away in the opposition 22 (just as Sexton did in the first half) when a bit of patience and ball retention may have seen us open up the US defence. A kick in that situation is 50/50 at best from an Irish perspective.

The US defence was keeping them out all day. Why would it change in the last few minutes. By the way, I'd say the success rate of that kick from ROG is about 75%.

We scored 3 tries and would have scored 4 if Bowe hadn't knocked on so the US defence wasn't keeping us out all day at all.

Kicking the ball away in your opponents 22 is a sign of panic and not the mark of an experienced player on top of his game.

If ROG does start he'll need to buck up his ideas because he has been rubbish in his last few starts for Ireland. He showed no control whatsoever against England or France and kicked the game away against Wales in the 6N.

Sexton is not in great form but neither is ROG.

What was the panic about? Ireland were 22-3 at that stage. Drop goals would be panicking because we were going to lose the match. I thought O'Gara had a very good game against France in Bordeaux, bearing in mind the team around him and that was pretty much a French first choice team.

And for the umpteenth time - that kick is a fairly normal tactic for O'Gara to try in a game.

by mckay1402 Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:46 am

Shouldn't this 'live match' thread have died ages ago?

by dublin_dave Tue 13 Sep 2011, 11:48 am

obviously a win would be magnificent on Saturday am but at this stage i would take a good passionate performance that at least gives us a bit of excitement and makes us not dread getting out of bed in the morning to watch them.

We have rigorously picked bones in almost every players contribution for days now. However question Kidney and Smal and its akin to pointing a shotgun at Bambis head. Its nuts to be honest

We are all myself included quick to pidgen hole martin johnson as a luddite, lievremont and de villiers as wallys. Their respective teams however appear to be in better nick at the biggest competition in the world than we are. AGAIN

i will judge kidney on world cup performance and of course we have time to remedy things. Just cannot see it happening on his watch. He has had time to build towards this and we are in the worst form since he took over

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