Haye vs Vitali seems likely (if unpopular)

After David Haye recently stated his intention to delay his retirement pending the outcome of the Vitali/Adamek fight, it appears Vitali has reaffirmed his desire to punch David Haye's lights out. Vitali claims he would be willing to fight Haye AND have the fight take place in the UK.

"David Haye is world famous not for boxing skills but for his long tongue,”

Whether or not it will happen remains to be seen as Haye's standing in the eyes of British boxing fans is at an all-time low. His comments re the "Polish plum" (Adamek) appear to suggest he's gained little in the way of humility post-Wlad, but then, playing Devil's Advocate, I can see why he would need to try leap-frog a bunch of relative no-names to secure another World title shot.

Many believe that Haye would need to re-establish himself on the World scene with at least two fights against top ten opposition but that would most likely take another year and we all know Vitali won't be around forever (despite him and Hopkins showing no sign of hanging 'em up). There's plenty of needle in this one, especially from Vitali (who would appear to genuinely dislike Haye) and I do believe that the lack of decent opposition combined with a lack of motivation to face the Povetkins of this world will see Vitali try and get a fight with Haye arranged asap.

If this fight was to happen I'd perfer to see it delivered straight away with no wrangling over this, that and the other and I'd prefer to see Haye being the one agreeing to whatever terms were laid down (as he brings nothing to the table). However, I have a funny feeling that Vitali's desire to do some serious damage to Haye will see him making allowances that I don't think Haye really deserves.

Haye potenially has the chance at a title shot out of nowhere and I think he should, if it happens, show a little gratitude, but something tells me, it's unlikely to surface.

Some have questioned whether or not a fight would sell but I honestly think it would even if it was a case of, like in the days of Naz and Eubank, people tuning in to see our guy lose. However, I don't think Haye will mind whose money he takes, it all spends at the end of the day.

Do we want to see this fight?

Should it happen?

Would anyone on here be drawn in as many of us were for the Wlad match up?

Think we'd all like to see it straightaway with no wrangling..

However..................

1. Haye still thinks he's a "superfighter".oblivious to the fact his stock has dropped considerably...making a deal harder to make.

2. I think he'll stick to acting anyway or whatever else he's doing as a don't think he particularly loves the sport.

I agree straightaway, think Truss makes valid points, Haye will want 50/50 which he doesn't deserve.

If it did happen just can't see anyway Haye could win, Vitali has better reflexes better output and a sterner jab than his younger bro. Haye couldn't get in punching distance of more hesitant Wlad can see him getting whacked out emphatically after a cat chasing mouse affair.

After watching the hunger to fight that Vitali demonstrated last night I'm not sure Haye would want any part of that.

Vitali was in superb condition and the slowness he was showing in recent fights wasn't as apparent. He fought at a pace that would be uncomfortable for Haye's stamina. Vitali also has the killer instinct and has no problem with beating opponents up, he actually relishes the opportunity.

Vitali would do a number on Haye. David got a glimpse of what to expect last night. It is clear that Vitali will go out to harm Haye. Of that there is no doubt.


The only way Haye takes the fight is if he thinks he can run around the ring and con his way to another payday. I don't think Vitali would let that happen. He would stalk Haye with little fear for personal safety.


I have a feeling Haye won't fight again after what he saw last night

Strongback, I think you may underestimate Haye's love of a) filthy lucre and b) media attention. He will continue to clamour for a fight with Vitali, which he will reinforce with streams of tedious insults, which are scarcely in the class of Dorothy Parker or Oscar Wilde. Samuel Johnson he isn't.

Not that there will be any question of EARNING a shot at Vitali through the wearisome chore of fighting any of those other contenders who are so far beneath him, you understand. Oh, no. He will graciously condescend to defer his retirement by six months to allow us all to watch him engage reverse gear again for thirty-six minutes.

What fun. The fight will happen if Vitali wishes it to happen. Since he apparently wishes to ram his fist, and Haye's words, down the little gobsheen's throat, I suppose it will happen. I will also raise a glass to Klitschko senior when the inevitable ending comes (and make no mistake, it will if they meet in the ring). However, once again, I will absolutely not be parting with one red cent to watch Haye attempt to make fools of people. Instead, I shall enjoy his destruction at my leisure at a later date, possibly over a nicely appropriate glass of vintage claret.

I can't see Haye wanting the Vitali fight any more. He won't make the money he did for Wladimir and he shouldn't be getting 50/50 either. Vitali has a nasty streak that Wladimir lacks. Wladimir never opened up on Haye because he was nervous about his speed and power. Vitali will be different he knows he has the chin to take Hayes shots and would hunt him down.

Their was talk that Vitali had looked like he had slowed down a bit but I never seen it before and it definitely wasn't evident last night. If I was Haye I would want nothing to do with Vitali.

i would actually love to see that fight. haye wont have the chance to be as conservite and cautions as he was against wlad, he would get KO'd by the more agrressive and nasty fighter inside 3 rounds, haye may even be forced into fighting different way, making for a more exciting fight- im sure haye will have learned something from his last performance. i would be interested in hearing any of his pre fight hype, but would definetly pay 15 GBP if it was on ppv, as would be very interested how it panned out.

Its not a fight I would get excited about because of Haye's woeful display against Wlad, the so called weaker brother. Why would people look forward to this fight Vitali wants it because of the money his little bro made against Haye, and of course the build up to the fight would be the same as the previous fight with Haye mouthing off and Vitali acting as the refined, gentlemen champion.

Seen that movie.

Imo Haye thinks he is too good for guys like Adamek and should not have to fight them but got to be honest after watching Vitali last night I think Haye would get destroyed coz I dont think he could take the kind of bashing Adamek did for ten rounds did you see his face after it?

But Haye knows its a win-win calling out Vitali coz if he gets the fight then he will make money and get a shot without having to face anyone else and if Vitali does not give him a match he can say Vitali ducked him and was too afraid to put his title on the line but does anyone really think Haye would beat Vitali?

Waingro wrote:Imo Haye thinks he is too good for guys like Adamek and should not have to fight them but got to be honest after watching Vitali last night I think Haye would get destroyed coz I dont think he could take the kind of bashing Adamek did for ten rounds did you see his face after it?

But Haye knows its a win-win calling out Vitali coz if he gets the fight then he will make money and get a shot without having to face anyone else and if Vitali does not give him a match he can say Vitali ducked him and was too afraid to put his title on the line but does anyone really think Haye would beat Vitali?

Haye wouldn't convince anyone that Vitali is ducking him. Pointless fight. Why would big Vitali want his kid brother's sloppy seconds is beyond me. There wouldn't even be that much money in it anymore.

I'm frustrated with Haye's lack of humility and his half hearted effort against Vlad!!! But let's face it who the hell wants to see useless, faceless garbage like Adamek fighting the Klits.....The guy looked like someone Tony Tubbs would use a tune up in the 80's.....

Man it shows the dreadful lack of talent at heavy...In fairness he's not alone... Fury is workmanlike and as for my home Country...well we won't go there..

I've been on Haye's case since Vlad but he is the only wild card out there who might step up..

It's Haye or nobody!! and how frustrating is that!!

Haye should just do us all a favour and retire. The sooner he retreats to North Cyprus and shuts up for good the better

Who the hell wants to see him getting smacked around the ring by Vitali anyway. As much as I dislike the guy I wouldnt wanna see that bad toe get any more damage to it

Steffan wrote:Who the hell wants to see him getting smacked around the ring by Vitali anyway.

ME!!!!

captain carrantuohil wrote:Strongback, I think you may underestimate Haye's love of a) filthy lucre and b) media attention. He will continue to clamour for a fight with Vitali, which he will reinforce with streams of tedious insults, which are scarcely in the class of Dorothy Parker or Oscar Wilde. Samuel Johnson he isn't.

Not that there will be any question of EARNING a shot at Vitali through the wearisome chore of fighting any of those other contenders who are so far beneath him, you understand. Oh, no. He will graciously condescend to defer his retirement by six months to allow us all to watch him engage reverse gear again for thirty-six minutes.

What fun. The fight will happen if Vitali wishes it to happen. Since he apparently wishes to ram his fist, and Haye's words, down the little gobsheen's throat, I suppose it will happen. I will also raise a glass to Klitschko senior when the inevitable ending comes (and make no mistake, it will if they meet in the ring). However, once again, I will absolutely not be parting with one red cent to watch Haye attempt to make fools of people. Instead, I shall enjoy his destruction at my leisure at a later date, possibly over a nicely appropriate glass of vintage claret.

Any chance of getting off the fence on this one captain. Alas as appears to be the case does appear this one will happen. Will come as a shock to no-one on here that I am not Haye's greatest fan but really seems to have developed a sense of entitlement about him. Did absolutely squat against Wlad to suggest an immiediate fight against either brother would end in anything other than crushing defeat, yet still seems happy to expect everyone to part with their hard earned to facilitate that beating. I would have slightly more respect for him if he acknowledged his gameplan, such as it was was some way short of what is required and actually get some rounds in against decent heavyweights to suggest that when he does face one of the brothers again he might actually be able to come out of the fight with something approaching credit.

I wouldn't really say it's a pointless fight as there is no one else to challenge either Klitschko...
A lot of you are being massively critical on Haye, perhaps he should prove himself more however you have to say there is needle here and it's not like Cleverly Versus Bellew for a world title is it? That fight is more farcical than this, let's not forget Haye is still ranked number 6 in the world and is a sufficient challenger. He is also a former world champion int he weight, looking at it on paper it's not that bad, just a lot of you hate him for the mouth he's given and didn't back it up against Wlad and are being blinded by that...

Alex can only comment for myself but I have been more than critical of Bellew and Clev being a world title shot, however the argument that there has been worse world titles so Haye Vitali is ok is a shaky one because Enzo Macarinelli Bobby Gunn was a world title so if we take that as the starting point we can pretty much excuse everything and anything.

My real problem with this fight is that I saw nothing in the Wlad fight to suggest Haye would have any chance at the minute against either brother, displayed virtually no jab or fundamentals and was totally over reliant on one shot power which it is questionable he actually possesses at heavyweight. Now as someone who will probably be expected to finance a second tilt through PPV I personally feel slightly aggreved that Haye has done nothing to actually address these errors and seems intent of going straight back in to replicate them, in all likelihood with the same outcome.

There must be someone else other than the undeserving Haye? Hell even dredge up some washed up yanks like McCall or Toney. I would be willing to pay £15 for Vitali v Haye NOT to happen.

Dont understand where you are coming from AlexHuckerby. By your logic, Haye could get beaten every other week by Klitschko and still claim to be the best available option.

For starters, I am not sure is. And if he is, I would like him to prove it. Not against the Audley Harrisons or John Ruizs, but against the top contenders in the division. Theres nothing in his performance or style to suggest an outcome any different. the truth is there is nobody in the division who looks like challenging either Klitschko but why is a proven failure against them neccessarily better than an unknown, albeit percieved less talented? Fury or Hellenius or Dmitrenko or whoever else would almost certainly lose, but at least they have different dimensions and styles to Haye who we can only imagine would resort to his usual hie and seek game and then, perhaps, claim survival as a moral vicotry entitling him to a rematch in a fight where the fans, ref and judges were against him.

I wouldnt have a problem if Haye went of and beat some other contenders to get his shot. Sam Peter for instance did it and beating Povetkin would almost certainly entitle him to another crack at Wlad via mandatory status yet we are expected to feel privellaged he is postponing his retirement if the big bad Klitschkos will accomadate a rematch.

As poor as the division is, it does entitle Haye to simply demand a rematch based on pettyness, jibes and lies. I have checked the WBA ranking there and he is ranked number 2 still (amazingly Hssem Rahman is the number 1 contender). Therefore it would be very easy to simply become Wlads mandatory by beating either Rahman or Povetkin, especially as Povetkin does not seem willing to face Wlad himself. The fact he is unwilling to do this is the problem for me.

Who is more deserving than Haye??????

Former cruiser champion and wba heavy champ who had one bad night against........................ a load of garbage Adamek types???????

I'd rather watch Haye than some ordinary plodder.....

Let's face it he's probably the third best heavy out there...

I would pay to watch the fight personally, though no way near as enthused about it as much as Haye - Wlad, in complete honesty Rowley, I don't know who he can really fight to get him actual prep for either Klitschko. Clearly it's not the best HW world title fight, but if not Haye who else? Seriously, he's the only one who can sell a fight even if he's lost a lot of creditability and cause him more questions than anyone else I can see on the Heavyweight scene...

You've changed your tune, Truss. He needs to prove that he is the third best heavy first, in my view. Why does he get a free pass for such a woeful performance last time?

I've not changed my tune Captain I think his performance was a disgrace and I think he's a piece of slime... the way he acts...I don't think he deserves a shot but let's face it compared to the rest out there....

he's third best in the world..who is more deserving...the rest are garbage.

That's the pitiful bottom line..

Colonial Lion wrote:Dont understand where you are coming from AlexHuckerby. By your logic, Haye could get beaten every other week by Klitschko and still claim to be the best available option.

For starters, I am not sure is. And if he is, I would like him to prove it. Not against the Audley Harrisons or John Ruizs, but against the top contenders in the division. Theres nothing in his performance or style to suggest an outcome any different. the truth is there is nobody in the division who looks like challenging either Klitschko but why is a proven failure against them neccessarily better than an unknown, albeit percieved less talented? Fury or Hellenius or Dmitrenko or whoever else would almost certainly lose, but at least they have different dimensions and styles to Haye who we can only imagine would resort to his usual hie and seek game and then, perhaps, claim survival as a moral vicotry entitling him to a rematch in a fight where the fans, ref and judges were against him.

I wouldnt have a problem if Haye went of and beat some other contenders to get his shot. Sam Peter for instance did it and beating Povetkin would almost certainly entitle him to another crack at Wlad via mandatory status yet we are expected to feel privellaged he is postponing his retirement if the big bad Klitschkos will accomadate a rematch.

As poor as the division is, it does entitle Haye to simply demand a rematch based on pettyness, jibes and lies. I have checked the WBA ranking there and he is ranked number 2 still (amazingly Hssem Rahman is the number 1 contender). Therefore it would be very easy to simply become Wlads mandatory by beating either Rahman or Povetkin, especially as Povetkin does not seem willing to face Wlad himself. The fact he is unwilling to do this is the problem for me.

That is an interesting fact about rahman!
But what you're saying is you would rather watch someone who has a bigger chance to lose, lose, just because they would lose in a different way?? No doubt Haye isn't someone I woudl pick to beat Vitali knowing what I know now, but for me there is no one of a better calibur than him. No one with the same speed and elusiveness... Watching another typical fat bum fight Vitali just because he's bigger than Haye doesn't interest me one iota. In truth Haye should maybe work his way into another title shot, but really he beats let's say Arreola what does he gain from that really? He doesn't carry wshat Vitali has and doesn't prepare him for Vitali really... If Haye isn't prepared now I don't think he will ever be, but for me he's the best opponent out there to face for Vitali.

What is his third best heavyweight status in the world based on these days? Theres only so much mileage you can get over a mediocre win over somebody like Valuev before you have to defend your status once again. The likes of Adamek and Povetkin have similar records to him at this stage and the manner of his defeat to Klitschko I think put him firmly back in the pack of contenders rather than best of the rest status he had enjoyed previously. Would not argue that its possible he is still potentially the best outside the Klitschkos but I think he has to start proving and defending this claim with more than words now or a false sense of entitlement.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:Dont understand where you are coming from AlexHuckerby. By your logic, Haye could get beaten every other week by Klitschko and still claim to be the best available option.

For starters, I am not sure is. And if he is, I would like him to prove it. Not against the Audley Harrisons or John Ruizs, but against the top contenders in the division. Theres nothing in his performance or style to suggest an outcome any different. the truth is there is nobody in the division who looks like challenging either Klitschko but why is a proven failure against them neccessarily better than an unknown, albeit percieved less talented? Fury or Hellenius or Dmitrenko or whoever else would almost certainly lose, but at least they have different dimensions and styles to Haye who we can only imagine would resort to his usual hie and seek game and then, perhaps, claim survival as a moral vicotry entitling him to a rematch in a fight where the fans, ref and judges were against him.

I wouldnt have a problem if Haye went of and beat some other contenders to get his shot. Sam Peter for instance did it and beating Povetkin would almost certainly entitle him to another crack at Wlad via mandatory status yet we are expected to feel privellaged he is postponing his retirement if the big bad Klitschkos will accomadate a rematch.

As poor as the division is, it does entitle Haye to simply demand a rematch based on pettyness, jibes and lies. I have checked the WBA ranking there and he is ranked number 2 still (amazingly Hssem Rahman is the number 1 contender). Therefore it would be very easy to simply become Wlads mandatory by beating either Rahman or Povetkin, especially as Povetkin does not seem willing to face Wlad himself. The fact he is unwilling to do this is the problem for me.

That is an interesting fact about rahman!
But what you're saying is you would rather watch someone who has a bigger chance to lose, lose, just because they would lose in a different way?? No doubt Haye isn't someone I woudl pick to beat Vitali knowing what I know now, but for me there is no one of a better calibur than him. No one with the same speed and elusiveness... Watching another typical fat bum fight Vitali just because he's bigger than Haye doesn't interest me one iota. In truth Haye should maybe work his way into another title shot, but really he beats let's say Arreola what does he gain from that really? He doesn't carry wshat Vitali has and doesn't prepare him for Vitali really... If Haye isn't prepared now I don't think he will ever be, but for me he's the best opponent out there to face for Vitali.

What it comes down to for me is that Im not convinced Haye has a massively better chance than a host of contenders now and we have seen the outcome of Haye v Klitschko before. Im not giving anyone else in the division much of a chance but at this stage I would rather see a fresh opponent in with Klitschko rather than a repeat of Hayes backfoot non fight style of boxing which may see him survive longer but gives him little chance of winning. The other fighters should be given their chance regardless of how slim one might view their chances and Haye should put himself into contention the proper way rather than trying to rely on a poor division to claim he is the worthiest opponent.

Because of the clear raw talent that he has and the entangables and similar records to guys that are regarded as the biggest threats... Can you in all good conciousness say Arreola is better than Haye? The only person I could see an arguement for is Povetkin being better than Haye and he wants nothing to do with the Klitschko's so please TELL ME Colonial WHO ELSE!? Who should Vitali face next?? There isn't any other worthy opponents apart from Haye!!

doesnt anything think wlad was at least parically to blame as well for the boring fight, he was very safety first himself, and with that reach advantage its a neigh on impossible task for a blown up crusierweigth to topple. at least vitali drops his hands and will engage/take a shot. i'd expect the fight to be more exciting even though i still see a loss for haye;. i'd rather leave the few remaining heavys who they havent beat to mature for a while, instead of been beaten while there still relitive novices (i'm talking price/fury/povetkin/helenius/perez/striverne).

Exactly Eddy they are the only other guys that can do a thing against Vitali, but people want to see them in against Vitali just because they have different dimensions though not anyway near ready just yet... I would much rather see Haye who is at world level and is in terrific shape and at least has real entangables and experience in comparison to the rest to take on Vitali.

Why are Dmitrenko, Boytsov, Ustinov, Hellenius, Solis or even Fury or Ortiz less worthy of an opportunity?

Why not Chambers or Tony Thompson then?

You seem to be adopting the position that Haye is entitled to a match based on your own assumption hes the third best heavyweight. I dont share this point of view. I would prefer to see fresh opponents in rather than a proven failure.

People bang on about Haye as if he has all the talent in the world but the fact is Im not sure he is this automatic third best heavyweight because the fact he he has never really tested himself against them. Against common opposition he has not set himself apart either. A comprehensive defeat to Klitschko plus a series of medium to poor wins does not automaticlally make him top. On principle I dont believe he deserves an immediate shot either even if it a means a supposedly less talented guy gets his shot by earning it the traditional way.

If Haye took a similar loss to Vitali and then sat back and demanded a rematch again citing there was nobody better would you advocaate it? At what point does he actually have to earn a shot?

You think that one bad performance in a "superfight" puts him behind those guys.....

None of those guys has a chance against the Klits... at least with Haye there is a possibility..

exactly, the heavyweight division isn't going to improve if the best prospects get chucked in for a beating of a klit when they only have 2-3 decent wins on there records. there needs to be more competition between the contenders, so experience is gained and talent developed so that is a few years time we have a few challengers actually in with a chance of winning.

Why are Dmitrenko, Boytsov, Ustinov, Hellenius, Solis or even Fury or Ortiz less worthy of an opportunity?

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Boytsov and Hellenius will be kept well away for the K bros for a few years. Fury has even said he's not ready himself. Ustinov is just a big lump and nothing more.

Why is there a possibilty Haye might win any more than the others? There was nothing in the fight to suggest it.

Haye may not be behind those guys in terms of talent, but in my view he is not entitled to sit back and claim some special status without going out and proving he deserves it.

My interest in the heavyweight division is limited going on non existant so Im not going to rush to watch any fight in the division I just dont see whats so special about Haye and why hes assumed to e vastly superior to the other contender and furthermore entitled not to have to fight them for another shot. It seems a great luxury afforded to him I must say and in my view its not correct either in terms of principle or the reality of the situation.

I see Haye very much as a contender with the Klitschkos far above everyone. He hasnt done anything or displayed anything that gives him special status.

Colonial do you seriously think these guys are better than Haye?! These guys are either past it, never really had it or not ready or plain awful (Tony Thompson) Solis is overweight and coming in the ring like that is a disgrace why do you want to see him again, it was over in a round the first time (Other things happened I know) but whats the point in seeing that again? Dmitrenko is Euro level at best surely you can see that! Only seen Ustinov once he didn't seem special and he's rated all the way down at 33 in the world, Boystov hasn't really faced anyone either similar to Haye, but doesn't look ready for the leap yet for me. "Fat" Eddie Chambers has far less than Haye. Pure and simple I don't see how you can rate these guys higher than Haye...

But I guess it's down to opinions so fair enough...

Eddy, where are the decent heavyweight wins on Haye's record? Why do we assume that Haye has the best chance out there against either Klitschko (not that I think that any of the current top 30 have a chance to speak of against either brother)? I just feel that we need to go back to the old tried and tested formula of fighting your way up the ladder. Eliminators and the like. What most gets my goat about Haye is that he somehow seems to feel that he is above such turgid scuffling and that he is entitled to automatic preferment, no matter how ordinary his last performance might have been.

eddyfightfan wrote:exactly, the heavyweight division isn't going to improve if the best prospects get chucked in for a beating of a klit when they only have 2-3 decent wins on there records. there needs to be more competition between the contenders, so experience is gained and talent developed so that is a few years time we have a few challengers actually in with a chance of winning.

They arent going to improve if contenders like Haye feel above fighting them either and is afforded the luxury of simply demanding title shots whenever he likes.

If the contenders want to fight for the tite and have earned their way into contention then they are more entitled to their shot than Haye is off the back of a comprehensive loss.

captain carrantuohil wrote: What most gets my goat about Haye is that he somehow seems to feel that he is above such turgid scuffling and that he is entitled to automatic preferment, no matter how ordinary his last performance might have been.

Bingo suspect if we were to take out of the equation the fact that Haye is British and it was the likes of Chambers, Peter or Adamek saying they wanted to get in with the other brother on the back of their hiding we would all treat these comments with the absolute ridicule they deserve, have to ask what is different when it is Haye saying them as his performance was every bit as poor as those named.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Colonial do you seriously think these guys are better than Haye?! These guys are either past it, never really had it or not ready or plain awful (Tony Thompson) Solis is overweight and coming in the ring like that is a disgrace why do you want to see him again, it was over in a round the first time (Other things happened I know) but whats the point in seeing that again? Dmitrenko is Euro level at best surely you can see that! Only seen Ustinov once he didn't seem special and he's rated all the way down at 33 in the world, Boystov hasn't really faced anyone either similar to Haye, but doesn't look ready for the leap yet for me. "Fat" Eddie Chambers has far less than Haye. Pure and simple I don't see how you can rate these guys higher than Haye...

But I guess it's down to opinions so fair enough...

I didnt say they were neccessarily better than Haye, I said they were just as deserving if not more so for a title shot. You can say nobody wants to see these guys fight Klitschko but I am no rush to see Haye fight them again either as I know how one sided the first contest was and I know from watching Haye that he is ill equipped to beat them.

Nobody new would ever get a title shot adopting your point of view.

Heck a better argument might be why do the Klitschkos even bother to defend their titles at all given how two sided the division is.

I respected Haye as a crusier but his record at heavyweight is a joke

Monte Barrett - 38 year old who never achieved much anyway
Nikolay Valuev - Worst heavyweight champion in history
John Ruiz - 39 year old well past his best
Audley Harrison - Needs no explanation

The only decent fight he has taken is Wladimir Klitschko and look what happened there

Haye should either move back down to crusier or retire

I'm not suggesting that every deposed champion gets a shot ahead of other guys for the sake of it...

Just that Haye was involved in a superfight....lost a decision with a poor performance but everyone is allowed one bad fight.....

I can see why you think differently and I respect that...

Just don't want to see the klits wade through crud that haven't a prayer...

Haye does have good skills.should he use them.

i think valuev was a decent win, his shear size is difficult to battle against, and haye wobbled him more than anyone else. even the klitch brothers were reluctant to get in with him, granted they didnt need him to prove anything but still. he also KO'd a very tough ruiz, even if his is past it. better that any other heavys record.

If I genuinely felt Haye had just an off night, I might agree - although would still demand that he prove this was a mere blip performance by going out and beating somebody noteworthy.

But I dont believe its the case. Theres nothing in his style or even ability at heavyweight that makes me think he has a hope or that the Klitschko fight was a one off. A fighter that can hit hard will perhaps always have some kind of chance against Wladimir but Haye pretty much defined the classic "punchers chance" performance and woefully inadequate offensively relying literally on landing a big one somewhere. Vitali probably even takes away that big punch opportunity as I think hes equipped to handle Hayes power.

Somebody like Solis, I would actually advocaate a rematch for. He displayed in his breif encounter a style and attributes that I actually think could cause Vitali problems and the nature of the bout meant little or nothing was proved conclusively. If we are talking about fighters getting rematches then I would bang the drum far louder for Solis than for Haye.

You not think he might have learned from the defeat..????

a la Tunney v Greb.

Lewis showed how a good jab can bust up Vitali..

Then again Lewis was much bigger.

Was about to say that Truss, people CAN learn and understand things and see things clearer... The rest have no experience at world level and don't have the talent either...

i think haye will learn from that fight, although he doesnt act like it. solis is a good shout but then really who has he beat? and think haye beat him back in the amatuers, so i think you have to go on gut feeling who is better than actual records in this divison as record wise wlad and vitali are so much further ahead that nobody really deserves a shot.

Most ot the Tunney/Greb fights were close, hard fought contests overall. There was plenty of evidence in the first encounter for Tunney to be a live opponent in the future as he gave Greb a torrid time despite dropping the decision.

Haye was comprehensively beaten and now at 31 and given his style and attributes I would hold little or no hope for him to be able to make the neccesary adjustment. Furhermore, Tunney always had the actual ability and talent to beat Greb being a great fighter himself. I dont think Haye has the talent to beat Klitschko and is giving away alot in size. As I said above, there is always the argument that he would maintain a punchers chance against Wlad and one could say Vitali is ageing (not too badly judging by last night) but I think its a lost cause for Haye and I think Haye knows this himself.

I would suspect that if/when the fight happens we are treated to Haye running and trying hide all the way to the bank.

You wouldn't have wanted to see Hearns-Duran 2 then???

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You wouldn't have wanted to see Hearns-Duran 2 then???

I cant say I would really, certainly not immediately after the first encounter anyway. Would far rather have seen Hearns v Hagler or Hearns v Leonard again.

With those fighters you are talking about great fighters though. David Haye?? Hes not on that kind of level in terms of ability.

Haye seems to occupy a strange kind of status with some people on here whereby despite having a heavyweight record comparable a number of other contenders he is assumed to be so much better.

I happen to see Haye vs the likes of Chambers, Povetkin, Adamek, Solis and so on as competitve fights. Certainly far more competitve than seeing him in with one of the Klitschkos again. He hasnt massively distinguished himself from these guys at heavyweight mainly because hes avoided fighting these level fighters.

The most telling thing on his heavyweight record is the loss to Klitschko. Outside of that his win column doesnt propel him massively ahead of the chasing pack. It may be that he is better than them and I would make him a favourite over most of them but I dont think he can just tell us all he is better than us and expect us to take his word for it. I want tangible proof, not idle speculation or assumption.

fair point but i dont think we'll see haye against any of those and think him against vitali would be entertaining and worth while whilst we have the chance. i'd rather see povetkin, solis, fury, helenius price and perez fight each other until we have one fighter emerge undeafted (unless its solis) with anyother 6-7 good wins. then a huge fight would be made with wlad, and it would prove if wlad (and to an extent vitali even if he'd retired) was a true great, or luck guy to be around in a so called poor division.

eddyfightfan last comment posted at 9:11.....

that's deep.