The perfect golfer?

Just for fun.

As far as I'm aware there has never been a player with a truly complete game, the players who have been most successful have excelled in only a couple of elements of the game at any one time and have simply been less bad at the other elements than their peers.
My question is:- Which players have been the best at each element of the game? (please don't go back to days of yore, most of us aren't that old)
I'll kick it off with a few suggestions.

Driving: Westwood.
Fairway woods: Harrington.
Long Irons: Garcia.
Short Irons: Donald.
Short Game: Mickelson.
Putting: Faxon.
Imagination/Creativity: Seve
Mental Game - Matchplay- Poulter
Mental Game - Strokeplay- Faldo (reluctantly)

Quite a good point that SR. Especially if we do it like you say from the modern game. Can imagine there'll be quite a few cross overs on here to.

Driving: Westwood
Fairway Woods:YE Yang
Long Irons:Garcia
Short Irons:Donald
Short Game:Seve
Putting: Brad Faxon
Creativity:Mickelson
Mental Game Matchplay:Poulter (though nearly Picked Els)
Mental Game Strokeplay:Tiger (Very reluctantly but look at his major haul)

driving :Westwood
Fairway Woods: Jimenez (controversial maybe? but i cant think of anyone else and i dont agree with Harrington just cos he hit one good one in the open!)
Long Irons: Westwood
Short Irons: Woods
Chipping: Seve
Bunkerplay :Donald
Putting:Donald
Imagination/Creativity:Mickelson
Mental game matchplay: Monty
Mental game strokeplay: Woods

Mav has pre empted it a little but i think 'Hybrids' should be added as they are used a lot these days and i would put forward YE Yang

OK, combine Woods/Hybrids, as to me they are interchangeable. My hybrids are my woods. I have no three wood.

Bit surprised that Bobby Jones or Ben Hogan don't appear in any categories.

Also...what about.....

Creativity Trevino
Putting Crenshaw
Long irons Faldo
Driving Norman

D4S, It was a pre-requisite that we didn't involve people which pre-date most of our existences as most of us wouldn't know how good they were and are unlikely to have seen them, otherwise the likes of Mac would nominate Old Tom Morris.

I don't know where you put wind play, but Darren Clarke's performance in The Open was a thing of beauty.

Surprised Stricker doesn't have any short iron votes.

And agree with d4s about Norman's driving.

super_realist wrote:D4S, It was a pre-requisite that we didn't involve people which pre-date most of our existences as most of us wouldn't know how good they were and are unlikely to have seen them, otherwise the likes of Mac would nominate Old Tom Morris.

Good shout, makes sense.

if we were to add the category of wedge play 130yards to 80 yards... then i'd definately put Stricker in there.

Zach johson probably up there with stricker too

Nah, can't have that Hendo, didn't you know it was God who plays Zach Johnsons short irons?

if were talking divine intervention SR then i want Webb Simpsons 2 wins this year looked at for outside interference.......

Bad weather/wind: Big Darren
Putting: Woods, Webb Simpson(based on the last month granted), Stricker, Zach Johnson
Chipping: Mickelson, Harrington, Donald
Bunker Play: Els
4-8 iron : Tom Watson
Driving: Garcia, Westwood, Norman
Par 5's: Woods
Finishers when in contention: Dyson, Bjorn, Stricker, Faldo, Woods

I'd have to go for Nicklaus as the best long iron player. Check out his famous 1-iron on 17 at Pebble Beach (in fact, IMO, it's much better than the other 3 shots in this clip that the 'experts' claim are better):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnW3jlyAzkM

you cant have Bjorn as being a good finisher!

Surprised to see that no one has mentioned Jack, Arnie and Gary, as all 3 won much more than anyone else.

Certainly for putting those were the tops in their day.

OP, we're not considering the coffin dodger element. Good as they were lots of people will be unfamiliar with anything other than their reputations.

super_realist wrote:D4S, It was a pre-requisite that we didn't involve people which pre-date most of our existences as most of us wouldn't know how good they were and are unlikely to have seen them, otherwise the likes of Mac would nominate Old Tom Morris.

Jack, Arnie and Gary, I used to watch through the seventies and eighties, and in all categories they were the best

NBS
You could make a case for Woods chip being as good in a different way (mainly because of the judgement of pace - everyone else running the ball from that side goes a couple of feet past the hole). Oh, and getting your ball to stop perfectly to show the sponsor's logo as the ball teeters on the edge was just showing off

Indeed, I think many of you under-rate Tiger's short game, which is what really set him apart from most of his contemporaries.

The shots at #2 and #1 were chosen because of their consequences more than the quality of the shot itself (both, particularly Mize's chip, had too large a slice of luck involved).

Well, that's the debate OP, sadly, most of us aren't old enough to remember them in their pomp, certainly not Palmer, so most people have gone for more current players.
My grandad always used to say Byron Nelson was the best player he ever saw, but he might as well be Willy Nelson for all I knew.


Dummy, Woods strength was not being the best at any particular part of the game (except perhaps the mental side) but in having strength in depth throughout his game.

He could never drive it like Westwood, wasn't quite as good with long irons as Garcia, short game not up to Mickelson's standard and could never putt like Davis Love or Faxon, but in his pomp he wasn't far away on all counts, just not the best in any of them.

s_r,
No-one has ever been able to "will" the ball into the hole like Tiger Woods used to.
Can't remember anyone ever making so many full shot "hole-outs" from the fairway than Tiger either. Just incredible. Luck? Karma?? Or just plain too good???

Driving: Love 111
Fairway Woods:Garcia
Long Irons:Langer
Short Irons:Donald
Short Game:Daly
Putting: Loren Roberts
Creativity:Mickelson
Mental Game Matchplay:Seve/Els
Mental Game Strokeplay:Miller

Golf is now for most Pros a power event, they work out each day to build up muscle power, to enable them to hit the ball further.

When you look, from the 80s backward then golfers had to play the courses as they where designed to be played, (that was drives far less than the 300+ drives of today) so golfers in those days could not overpower the course, so their ability had to be good in every aspect of the game in order to win tournaments.

My point is that lots of the older generation of golfers had a far better degree of skill in every aspect of the game than todays golfer, they just could not hit it as far.

I think that now golf has to take a step back and reduce the distance that the ball travels in the Pro game, and get back to playing golf how it should be played with skill not power

How much of that is down to technology though OP. The Worlds number one player Luke Donald has been superb this year. Is his game reliant on power?

Courses have been lengthened as a result, so is there that much of a difference in real times?

i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in relation to the skill of older generations, but I think short games these days would stand up well against those of the past.

But everyone has benefited from technology surely? and surely everyone hits it further now.

Personally I don't hit it much further than I did 15 years ago, but some of that is down to age!

End of teh day, if it comes out of the middle, wooden or a white headed R11, the result will be fairly similar

John Cregan wrote:Bad weather/wind: Big Darren
Putting: Woods, Webb Simpson(based on the last month granted), Stricker, Zach Johnson
Chipping: Mickelson, Harrington, Donald
Bunker Play: Els
4-8 iron : Tom Watson
Driving: Garcia, Westwood, Norman
Par 5's: Woods
Finishers when in contention: Dyson, Bjorn, Stricker, Faldo, Woods

Bjorn? Are you nuts? RSG 2003 when leading with 3 play, that event a couple of years ago when he put about 26 balls in the water off the last tee?

oldpar,
I watch a lot of tennis, same size court, same scoring (except tie-breaker), but incredible advances in racket technology as well as athleticism.
Yet it's still as thrillingly competitive as when I was a lad growing up watching Drobny and Hoad.

I know they tweak the balls a bit (lot?) but what a shame golf seems to be the only sport that can't seem to remain relevant within the original size of playing field.

Kwini
That's my point the older pro's could only hit the ball 250 yards, or 270 yards on a very good drive, so holes that measure 440-460 yards, in order to make par, they had to work the ball, so they used the old 1 and 2 irons, and depended more in getting up and down from around the green, but now the same length of hole is no more than just a drive and an 8 iron to most.

Golf to some extents is a power game now for some players like DJ, Bubba. But there are still a hell of a lot of golfers at the top of the game that are not power players, Luke Donald, Steve Stricker, Matt kuchar, David Toms etc. Plus it doesn't matter how long you are if you can't hit the short stuff its a lot harder to get up and down

OP

Could not agree more - the game is like pitch and putt for some pros now.

If they could restrict the distance the ball travelled for the pros the game would be so much more interesting...

Driving - Norman
Fairway Woods - Woosnam
Long Irons - Faldo (Not reluctantly)
Mid Irons - Watson
Short Irons - Donald
Bunker Play - Player (Reluctantly)
Chipping - Olazabal
Putting - Nicklaus
Creativity - Seve
Course Management - Faldo
Mental toughness - Woods
Finishers - Woods/Faldo/Nicklaus

Golf has always rewarded distance and, has been stated here, you can be long but you also better have a short game if you want to win.

The advances in club head size and ball composition are rendering some very fine courses defenseless. Or, if not defenseless, the hazards the GCA put in place are becoming irrelevant.

I'm looking for Augusta to issue a "tournament" ball one of these years. That would be fun to watch.

goodwalkspoiled wrote:OP

Could not agree more - the game is like pitch and putt for some pros now.

If they could restrict the distance the ball travelled for the pros the game would be so much more interesting...

How many of the so-called power players who are supposedly left with pitch and putt are actually winning a disproportionate number of tournaments.

It's how good your short game is which wins you tournaments, it doesn't do you any good if you can hit a long ball but can't control where it's going.
Only Dustin Johnson has been able live up to the claim that it's easier for long hitters, and although his ranking his high, he's not found it easy to win.

If you restricted the ball, you'd still get people who hit it further than others.

If you restrict the ball all you do is make shorter hitters hit it shorter too..

Longer players will still be longer than the others in the field no matter what, its how they set up the rough, bunkers and greens that determines the winner of an event, our Wolrd No1 is well down on the driving stats for distance yet look how consistent he is at finished top 10!

drive4show wrote:

John Cregan wrote:Bad weather/wind: Big Darren
Putting: Woods, Webb Simpson(based on the last month granted), Stricker, Zach Johnson
Chipping: Mickelson, Harrington, Donald
Bunker Play: Els
4-8 iron : Tom Watson
Driving: Garcia, Westwood, Norman
Par 5's: Woods
Finishers when in contention: Dyson, Bjorn, Stricker, Faldo, Woods

Bjorn? Are you nuts? RSG 2003 when leading with 3 play, that event a couple of years ago when he put about 26 balls in the water off the last tee?

That was typical Bjorn then, but i think he's won 4 tounaments in the last 2 seasons by taking the thing by the scruff of the neck and getting it done.

There is no doubt, that while he is not as consistent, week in week out, he is definately a better "finisher" than McIlroy, Westwood or Donald................

John Cregan wrote:

drive4show wrote:

John Cregan wrote:Bad weather/wind: Big Darren
Putting: Woods, Webb Simpson(based on the last month granted), Stricker, Zach Johnson
Chipping: Mickelson, Harrington, Donald
Bunker Play: Els
4-8 iron : Tom Watson
Driving: Garcia, Westwood, Norman
Par 5's: Woods
Finishers when in contention: Dyson, Bjorn, Stricker, Faldo, Woods

Bjorn? Are you nuts? RSG 2003 when leading with 3 play, that event a couple of years ago when he put about 26 balls in the water off the last tee?

That was typical Bjorn then, but i think he's won 4 tounaments in the last 2 seasons by taking the thing by the scruff of the neck and getting it done.

There is no doubt, that while he is not as consistent, week in week out, he is definately a better "finisher" than McIlroy, Westwood or Donald................

Hmm...agree that he has improved but a better finisher than Donald? Can't agree with you on that one.

I'm going to make this simple, i've only been into golf for about 5 years so i'm not going to go back to further than 2005ish:

Everything outside 100 yards: Westwood
Everything inside 100 yards: Donald
Mentality: Tiger (pre Nov 2009)

That would make a hell of player...

Rossa wrote:I'm going to make this simple, i've only been into golf for about 5 years so i'm not going to go back to further than 2005ish:

Everything outside 100 yards: Westwood
Everything inside 100 yards: Donald
Mentality: Tiger (pre Nov 2009)

That would make a hell of player...

Yep, add those components together and you get a world #1 with multiple majors!

drive4show wrote:

Rossa wrote:I'm going to make this simple, i've only been into golf for about 5 years so i'm not going to go back to further than 2005ish:

Everything outside 100 yards: Westwood
Everything inside 100 yards: Donald
Mentality: Tiger (pre Nov 2009)

That would make a hell of player...

Yep, add those components together and you get a world #1 with multiple majors!

No you don't you still get someone that has to have the luck and beat the rest of the field on thier day, perfect golfer doesn't mean he will win everytime

Westwood or Donald have not won any Majors, I notice that our last Major winner is not on anyone list.

So for me the best all round player is:

Darren Clarke

Maverick wrote:

drive4show wrote:

Rossa wrote:I'm going to make this simple, i've only been into golf for about 5 years so i'm not going to go back to further than 2005ish:

Everything outside 100 yards: Westwood
Everything inside 100 yards: Donald
Mentality: Tiger (pre Nov 2009)

That would make a hell of player...

Yep, add those components together and you get a world #1 with multiple majors!

:run:

No you don't you still get someone that has to have the luck and beat the rest of the field on thier day, perfect golfer doesn't mean he will win everytime

I think you may have missed his point old bean.

Driving - Westwood
Long Irons - Olazabel
Short Irons - 5-9? Woods
Pitching - Donald
Putting - Woods.

Sod SR's disgraceful coffin dodger comment.

If we were talking about music would that rule out Gershwin, Bernstien and Sinatra.

My perfect player from players that I have seen in the flesh.

Driving...... David Thomas / Greg Norman
Fairway Woods......Christy O'Connor
Long Irons...........John Panton
Mid Irons..........Nick Faldo
Short Irons.......Harry Bannerman
Pitching.............Luke Donald
Bunkers..........Gary Player
Putter...............Ben Crenshaw

Mentality......Nick Faldo
Winner.........Tom Watson

Doon

Thank you,

I think like me you watched golf from the late 60s onwards.

The only one on your list, that I do not recognize is John Panton.

Doon the Water wrote:Sod SR's disgraceful coffin dodger comment.

If we were talking about music would that rule out Gershwin, Bernstien and Sinatra.

My perfect player from players that I have seen in the flesh.

Driving...... David Thomas / Greg Norman
Fairway Woods......Christy O'Connor
Long Irons...........John Panton
Mid Irons..........Nick Faldo
Short Irons.......Harry Bannerman
Pitching.............Luke Donald
Bunkers..........Gary Player
Putter...............Ben Crenshaw

Mentality......Nick Faldo
Winner.........Tom Watson

Doon, It's my party, I set the rules. No coffin dodgers admitted.
Delighted you omitted the hateful Woods out of your choices though.

Super
You cannot have an exclusive party on an open forum, why not just sit back and enjoy a bit of education.

OP, I'm joking for heavens sake (you senile old spunker )

OPW

You mean the guy who beat Snead for the World Seniors title.
He was a wonderful iron player, driving was not great and he putted like an outboard motor.

OPW
Late 50's onwards.
Early memories 1959 Walker Cup and Open and 1960's open.

Sorry Doon do not remember him,

I used to watch Sandy Lyle, and thought his control of long irons was at most times as good as Jack and Gary.