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CAN SOMEONE DO THE LV TABLES FOR ME? TERRIBLE WITH CODING ON THESE THINGS

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Bath RFC	InTheFastLane
Exeter Chiefs	Driver - RIP 606
Gloucester	Anonmattyt
Harlequins	Steven_Sharks
Leicester Tigers	LukeLovesLuka
London Irish	stnick88
London Wasps	Arry
Newcastle Falcons	Sgt_Pooly
Northampton Saints	Dammit_Chris
Sale Sharks	SirJohnnyEnglish
Saracens	LDCPete
Worcester Warriors	prop_lyd

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Waiting List
1. Sam
2. pullthestrings
3. Bathite

Mortlock was pretty dire in the S15, he'd be a long way off an Aus selection I'd guess.

Think MJ might be worried about Simpson's basics Chris. Wiggles is prob there to see out a game. Has a great box kick and solid defence. It's going to raining apparently on Sat so I don't think it's the type of game Simpson would thrive in.

hadnt seen the conditions, on a dry pitch I'd have Simpson every day of the week - wet conditions would change things. His basics have improved a lot over the last 12 months, think Edwards is working his magic with him.

Just not the biggest fan of Wiggles in all honesty, think he's a good club player, who like you say has a great box kick and solid defence, but he's not going to test the top international teams - I think after the WC we really need to start trying to find those sorts of plays and giving them lots of game time for 2015.

I can see this England team potentially mirroring the 1999 England team, we've got a good nucleus of players to push four years later - and lots of youngsters on the fringes.

Pooly, SJE, who are the England players you'd like to see come into the mix post WC? I'd hope we'd have replacements for Deacon and Shaw, and hope that a specialist 7 emerges. I think Haskell could be one of the best no8's in the world if he's given game time there and apparently that is exactly where Wasps want to play him when he joins next season.

Guess next step is replacing Tindall, Banahan and Cueto from the squad.

England need to identify a 7, 10 and 12 to go forward after the world cup, and get them in and around the squad, even if they don't get gametime immediately.

Looking to the forward, we have a few players who are nailed into shirts, and others who look to be making them their own, but those positions are the problem ones for England.

" I think Haskell could be one of the best no8's in the world"

Can't see that at all mate, willing to be proven wrong.

Agree there Pete, would love a natural 7 to be found but just can't see one. I think 7,8,11,12 are positions that may be tinkered with.

7 - totally no idea....
8 - Haskell, Waldroum, Narraway, Guest
11 - Sharples, Ojo
12 - 36, Barritt

There is no stand out young sevens.
Saull hasnt impressed me for a long time now dont think he will ever be int. class.
Would like to see Haskell make 8 his own as dont think the others will ever be quality int's.
Ojo is a top AP winger but not sure if int. class, Sharples could be but needs to carry on developing.

12 - JTH , Farrell
7 - Saull , Welch , Kvesic , Robshaw (Only 25?)
8 - Chris York , Guest , Fearns
11 - Sam Smith , Chris Wade , James Short

Robshaw a 6, maybe 6.5 for me, as is Tom Wood.

7 is a problem, we are short on options.

8 we have options, Johnno just needs to identify who he thinks will make it and stick with them.

On the wings we have loads of talent coming through, so it will be a case of having a look at some and seeing who cuts it.

12 is where we need to really identify someone. Farrell? JTH? 36? All possibilties, but need to stand up and show they are up to the job.

MJ and his staff will have some big decisions to make between now and the 6 Nations.

A thought did occur to me the other day about the future England midfield, although I am not 100% convinced it would work, but Jonathon Joseph has been excellent at 13 so far this year, and it is wher ehe played most of his junior rugby. He has pace, picks good lines and is a strong defender…

12. Tuilagi
13. Joseph

???

Could be an option.

Saull has slipped right down the pecking order at Sarries, the lad who replaced him looks some player though.

Really not sure about Farrell at 12, was massivley un-impressed with him during the U20WC. Played quite well last week though but he hasn't much of a running game to be a 12 and it's good to have that option. 36 ticks all the boxes, has a physical threat, good pass/boot but really needs to displace Allen. Barritt and JTH are well ahead of the others currently.

Farrell needs gametime at 12 really to see what he can do. he played all last season at 10 and to a specific gameplan from Saracens, and was then asked to play 12 at the JWC. Was always going to be tough for the kid.

Thought he played well against Tigers at 12 last week, but they seem to be operating on the Super XV model of defence being optional at present so it's hard to judge. I'll see how he's doing at 12 at Christmas before sticking my neck out as to whether he is likely to cut it at international level there.

agree about Farrell with you pooly, think 36 could be a good prospect. Tuilagi/JJ would be a decent combo.
Problem is Pete, think Ansbro might have JJ's spot when he returns, although JJ will be back in there for the 6N. Good problem to have for Irish though.

It's a good option to have but takes Tuilagi's best asset away from him which is his pace and ability to take someone on the wide channel.

Think a Bowden/Tuilagi axis would be frighting!

stnick

I hope that the returning players have to earn their shirts when they get back and don't just walk straight in, particularly the new signings. JJ has arguably been our best player and to be dropped straight away for Ansbro would be a huge kick in the teeth.

Playing outside Hodgson could really bring on Farrell at 12. Sarries look really good at the minute. Not sure about Manu at 12, seen it mentioned a little. Manu/Lowe combo could be special but I'm really liking Manu at 13, not sure his distribution is up to 12.

Unless Haskell makes the shirt his own would like to see Narraway given a go at 8. Sharples to come in on the wing and replace Cueto and Barritt at 12. Think he could really do a job there for us at the moment. this is of course if some one else doesnt come through better.

7 and 10 are the main issues long term. Ford may well be the answer at 10 but is a few years away. Have seen people say Kvesic could be the future english 7. He looks more like a 6.5 then an out and out 7 to me but looks cracking at the breakdown to date. If you had asked a year or 2 ago would have said Saull bbut he has done nothing since then really. Hasnt come on anywhere near as expected.

Think we will have a new LH by the next world cup as well. Mullan is really looking the part but young Imolek at Sale has come on leaps and bounds and if Marler can sort out his scrummaging and temper he could be in for a good shout. Thomas in your academy as well Chris could be a decent shout a few years down the line. Sale have some cracking front row prospects at the moment.

Would stay well clear of Barritt and JTH as 12 for England - we need a Greenwood-esque sort of player there and for me both Barritt and JTH try and play a similar game to Nonu (smash the ball up) and they can do this at club level absolutely fine, but when up against world class opponents they would get smashed out of the water because they arent big enough to play that game at the next level up.

If Twelvetrees can dislodge Allen and get a good run of games then he could be the answer - but he must be 24/25 now and I worry that he hasnt progressed enough, as by that age he should be a first team regular. There's a young Wasps player at 18 or so, who was a NZ'er and then get UK status and if he develops like they think he will then we've stolen another very good player - Mitchell Tamiau I think, an England u18.

The 7 shirt is my biggest concern, but when you look through all other nations they each seem to have the same issue in that everyone is producing 6.5's instead of 7's - take away Brussow, McCaw, Pocock and Warburton and you arent left with many top quality players in that position.

We've got a few 7's coming through, Jake Abbott at Worcester is a good player and with Calum Clark's turnover ability I do wonder wether Saints will try and play him there. You also have Kvesvic at Worcester (tends to be playing more 6), you have Nutley at Saints and there's a good Wasps youngster whose name escapes me.

Think Launchbury will become an England international, think very highly of him - can see Mullan making the step up to full England honours soon.

Oh and before I get slated - Tom Rees! If only he gets fit and plays more than 10 mins of rugby - by time of next RWC he's be 31.

Barritt isn't just a bash merchant...watch Leicester game.

What is this Clark turnover ability Chris? You got any stats because I can't find anything on last season turnovers. Clark is quite tall too, doubt he'd settle at 7.

Mullen is an England Int

Pooly - Barritt played against a very, very weak Leicester team - all professional players can do that sort of thing, Tindall can do those passes. Play him in the bigger games when you dont get as much time and space and he reverts back to taking the ball into contact. he was also playing at 13, which frees you up a lot more.

For a top class 12, his hands aren't up to it - watch the difference between his passing ability and Twelvetrees or even George Ford and there is a huge, huge difference.

Not trying to be anti-Barritt, because I think he's a very good club player who is key to Sarries success, but he's not an international.

Got Clark stats from Northampton, one of my best friends lives next door to their owner and the stats showed that Clark got more turnovers then any other player in the AP last season, even though he was mostly a sub and got 20-30mins gametime. It also shows how many yellow cards he picks up, but I am glossing over that point...

Just scouting wikipedia (not the most reliable). Gordan D'arcy who has been one of the best 12s in the northern hemisphere for the last decade is smaller then both JTH and Barritt. JTH comes in at a similar weight to JDV and similar height as Nonu. They didnt do to bad at international rugby...

Not saying either may be the answer at 12 longterm but they definately aren't to small for international rugby and deserve a go based on their form over the last year.
Twelvetrees is 23 in November by the way according to Wiki so still time on his hands

Care to share the turnover stats Chris? Would be very interesting reading if that is so.

I just can't see Clark having most turnovers in prem when he comes on as sub and isn't obviously getting many turnovers, have to take that one with a pinch Chris. Do like Clark though, make a good 6.

Barritt had most successful passes from a 12 in prem last year and he played against Allen & 36 last week.....a weak weak combo?

Sorry but never convinved that JTH or Barritt are the answer, which seems the same thoughts as the England management. I dont think either are any better than good club players, and convinced that JTH looks good because he plays alongside Nick Evans.

I will see if I can get the stats.

Pooly - Barritt has most successful passes last year because he plays for Sarries whose forwards dominated pretty much every team, giving the backline an easy ride. You'd have the most succesful pass ratio if you played 12 for them last year.

I said Barritt played against a weak Leicester team, not combo - anyhow 36 was out of position, had an awful game positionally and Barritt took full advantage. Leicester didnt chase the Sarries backs down via their backrow, and it was a very weak Leicester team - how mnay times have they conceded 50 points at home?

I just dont think Barritt of JTH are the answer for England at 12, dont think either offer a complete game that would benefit England. I think we need a player that can kick and is similar to Greenwood in style to bring the best out of Tuilagi, who is going to be England's 13 for next 10 years. Backline has to build around him now, personally think it will be him and Twelvetrees, with George Ford the eventual 10.

Be a good read Chris, can never find season turnover stats. I bet they'd be some surprises in there.

You don't like Flood either but the management do, Barritt surely can't be any worse than Hape!

Forwards dominating makes no sense. Leicester dominate most and Allen had half the passes Barritt did. That proves to me that Barritt looks for the pass mote often than taking contact over most 12's. If he had a poor pass he'd just look for contact no matter what ball he was given.

We had the JTH beside Nick Evans discussion last week. Considering most people will happily admit that Evans had a poor run last season up to the last 2/3 months how does that explain JTHs form throughout the whole season? Still think Barritt has more to offer England in the longer term but JTH could be a decent international if given the chance as well. Both are better players then Hape and Flutey and would offer more then Tindall does at 12. Until someone else comes through they are our best options.

Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand (although Nonu has really improved here before Pete has a go ) and even France have proven that you dont need a kicking 12 in recent years to be succesful at international level. Would be a very nice extra but not always neccessary now. Think Barritt and JTH are both more then capable of bringing Tuillagi in to the game and would do well if given a chance.
Though you were calling for Elliot Daly to be the long term England 13 only a while ago? Tuillagi will face plenty of competition for his shirt with Johnny May at Glaws looking pretty good

Just watched the Falcons/Tigers game, should of won that, Leicester were off feet at last attack....gits!

Boris Stankovich MOTM though

Don't think Barritt is better than Hape, Hape is underated and think with a quick 13 outside him and a creative 10 would be a good player.
Have high hopes for him at Irish with Bowden at 10 and JJ or Ansbro at 13.

I wouldn't hold out much hope Nick, he was terrible for Bath. Shows you though that club performances don't always to relate to Int.

I seem to remember Greenwood not setting the world alight at club level and getting selected for Lions! (before England cap) and then being second choice for Leicester whilst playing for England.

There was reasons behind his poor time/finish at Bath pooly, personal stuff, he had big fall outs with a few players, mainly Olly Barkley. Could have had an impact on performance. Has always been good for England so am confident he will be good for us.

I'm not sure about always been good for England lol....he's the most hated man in England on main board! On paper looks a tidy midfield though

when has he ever let us down though? he may not be spectacular but does his job and is solid.

Johnson is no Barkely fan. Something to do with his defence maybe.

I know its late but did anybody see the Sale v saints game last week.

Imiolek and Thomas gave PDJ and Mujati a tough time and Seymour was unreal along with Gaskell.

How's Miller looking at FB Steve? And Jones at HK?

"Imiolek and Thomas gave PDJ and Mujati a tough time and Seymour was unreal along with Gaskell."

Saints battered them first 50 mins or so. Sale winning their fist pen in scrum was turning point in game.

Seymour was quaility..pulls out games like that and he looks like he could do a job for England tbh

Driver / Pooly what's this about Newcastle having a new financial backer? Is it about 3-4 months too late to save them this year from relegation?

Seymour has started the season really well.
Good for them as Fourie is out for a couple of months.

Not really a new backer, was a bloke on the board has took full control. He's got a bit of wedge behind him but unlikely to put much in.

We're actually playing well, thought we should of beat Leicester with a quite a few players missing.

With a few returning players Murray, Big Samoan lad flanker, Uys etc we'll have a handy team.

Glad we've got you this week in real life - although we never do that well when we have to travel up north!

We've got a lot of injuries unfortunately, think Filipo played no8 against Exeter last week - missed Ward-Smith and Worsley should be announcing his retirement too. big losses

Yea we normally turn you over

Our scrum isn't dominating atm, we miss Murray. Think we might bring in a top hooker/LH maybe. Think there's only Wasps with a worse one though so should be a right contest lol.

I'm hoping for big things from Uys, he's a real beast in midfield and the natural 13 we've missed. Might play at weekend.

Should be a good game

In truth I'd be disappointed if we didnt come away with a win this week, Exeter bullied us off the ball completely, we struggle when Broster plays, he lets people attack the hooker, hopefully Baker will get another game, like the look of him.

Poff is the player to watch, he's been getting so many turnovers, a proper 7 - trouble is when Hart doesnt play at 8, we lose all our shape in the backrow.

We've also been giving away so many penalties that Gopperth could get 15+ points, which is my big concern - think we will outscore you on the try front as weather suits us completely, but do worry about Gopperth's kicking ability.

What you make of young Simon McIntyre Chris mate? Ye signed him from Sale during the summer. Has looked very impressive around the park so far for you guys and is surely better then Broster scrum wise.

I've never seen Irish dominate a scrum like they did last week v Falcons.
Dermody and Halavatu did really well, then when Lahiff came on at T/H it got even better!

Think you could be in for a surprise Chris.

Fitzy has started the season well from what i'v heard , But Uys is gonna be the big man to get us going forward.

Gooson looks tidy aswell

Nick, looks like we've bought another dud at TH. Shiells is a talent and can usually hold his own at LH but he's only a young lad.

He hasnt played that much so far, but I've liked what I've seen - hear he has made a good impression in the 'A' team too. We've alwasys looked better as soon as Broster has gone off, keep replacing him with the French chap we signed too, who is a proper scrummager (Castrex or someone like that) - Taulafo has been playing well for Samoa during the WC, so hopefully he will keep that form for us - never got why we dont play him more.

I like Webber a lot, think he's had a strong start this season, but he really suffers playing with Broster, who just doesnt defend him at all in the scrum.

Isn't Zak on pay as you play deal Chris? Might be trying to save cash