Sean O'BRIEN almost a Haskell

by ME-109 Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:44 am

Nearly choked with laughter this morning when Sean Fitzpatrick said that SOB was almost like Haskell . First we have Horan and his rubbish column and now this. Great players both of them but bit of a disconnect with the brain. Although considering they are antipodean sportsmen maybe no connection at all

by Standulstermen Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:49 am

In all fairness Haskell is all the hype now they have found that Tom Croft isnt all that

by HammerofThunor Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:03 am

Who's suggested Croft is all that?

And did he explain what he means or did you jump to the idea that he meant he wasn't as good as Haskell?

by Standulstermen Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:07 am

He said he had the potential to be like Haskell. Most would suggest he has already surpassed Haskell. European player of the year after all Wink

by ME-109 Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:07 am

He suggested haskell was better i believe ...hilarious . Also Croft is an excellent winger. Not much of a forward though

by **LondonTiger** Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:09 am

Haskell is :

a) A back row forward who can play 6,7 or 8.
b) Reasonably well know by most of the ITV audience who know very few rugby players and believe Jonny is the best player ever.

O'Brien is:

a) A back row forward who can play 6,7 or 8.
b) Someone who most of the ITV audience do not know.

Thus Fitzpatrick is letting the audience who are fairly ignorant know a little more about a key irish player in a way they can understand. That O'Brien over the last 12 months has achievements light years ahead of Haskell is sadly irrellevant as the ITV masses have never heard of him.

by **LondonTiger** Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:12 am

DOD wrote:He suggested haskell was better i believe ...hilarious . Also Croft is an excellent winger. Not much of a forward though

Time you actually watched Croft then. He has been doing most of the tight stuff in rucks and mauls, lineouts, tackling, scavenging that allows England any quick ball. Gatland and McGeechan believe he is a pretty damn good player, more so after they worked with him. I am guessing they know just a touch more about things than you.

by HammerofThunor Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:12 am

DOD wrote:He suggested haskell was better i believe ...hilarious . Also Croft is an excellent winger. Not much of a forward though

That line's still being pulled out has it? I thought that got put the death after the Lions

by Artful_Dodger Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:14 am

ITV have to broadcast to the dummed down English masses who dont know their arse from their elbow when it comes to rugby to be fair. Anyone that knows anything about rugby will tell you that O'Brien has down a lot, Haskell on the other hand became known as 'The Brand' who hasnt actually done anything and will be playing his rugby in Japan very soon.

PS

I'd love to see Ferris vs Haskell again as well, Ferris handed him his ass on a silver platter the last two occassions.

by HammerofThunor Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:28 am

Isn't it "dumbed"? Whistle

by **Notch** Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:30 am

LondonTiger wrote:Haskell is :

a) A back row forward who can play 6,7 or 8.
b) Reasonably well know by most of the ITV audience who know very few rugby players and believe Jonny is the best player ever.

O'Brien is:

a) A back row forward who can play 6,7 or 8.
b) Someone who most of the ITV audience do not know.

Thus Fitzpatrick is letting the audience who are fairly ignorant know a little more about a key irish player in a way they can understand. That O'Brien over the last 12 months has achievements light years ahead of Haskell is sadly irrellevant as the ITV masses have never heard of him.

Thank you. I think O'brien is a better player too but sometimes we can go looking to find offence.

by Artful_Dodger Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:33 am

HammerofThunor wrote:Isn't it "dumbed"?

Yes it is, a momentary lapse no doubt -however picking up on spelling mistakes on the internet makes you look every bit as stupid.

by Geordie Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:45 am

He's right though...if O'Brien continues his development he COULD be as good as Haskell....its a big shout though....

by Guest Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:52 am

Notch wrote:
Thank you. I think O'brien is a better player too but sometimes we can go looking to find offence.

True enough. Or looking to cause offence in DOD's case here.

I don't understand why when comparisons are made one player has to be excellent and the other awful. O'Brien is a class act but Haskell has surprised a lot of people recently, not least English fans. Yes, he's got a bit of baggage with the 'brand' thing but he's knuckled down and got his rugby head on. A year ago not many of us would be thinking he would be sorely missed if he went to Japan after all.

by HammerofThunor Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:58 am

Artful_Dodger wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Isn't it "dumbed"?

Yes it is, a momentary lapse no doubt -however picking up on spelling mistakes on the internet makes you look every bit as stupid.

How does it make you stupid? Childish, pedantic, a soloist. Yes. But stupid?

by **Ozzy3213** Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:ITV have to broadcast to the dummed down English masses who dont know their arse from their elbow when it comes to rugby to be fair. Anyone that knows anything about rugby will tell you that O'Brien has down a lot, Haskell on the other hand became known as 'The Brand' who hasnt actually done anything and will be playing his rugby in Japan very soon.

PS

I'd love to see Ferris vs Haskell again as well, Ferris handed him his ass on a silver platter the last two occassions.

Lets explore this shall we.

Haskell

Age - 26

Honours
1x 6 Nations winner
2x Premierhship winner
1x Heineken Cup winner

O'Brien

Age - 24

Honours
1x Magners League winner
1x Heineken Cup winner
1x European player of the year

With the exception of the 6 Nations win Haskells other honours came prior to the last 2 years, so at the same age as O'Brien their achievements in the game are remarkably similar.

In fairness to O'Brien, he has had a better season than Haskell and deserves the plaudits that he is receiving, that does not however mean that Haskell is not currently finding some form again.

Now you may be of the opinion that O'Brien is a better player, and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, but please don't start spouting utter incorrect nonsense about what players have achieved as you make yourself look a little silly.

by **Notch** Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:23 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Notch wrote:
Thank you. I think O'brien is a better player too but sometimes we can go looking to find offence.
True enough. Or looking to cause offence in DOD's case here.

I don't understand why when comparisons are made one player has to be excellent and the other awful. O'Brien is a class act but Haskell has surprised a lot of people recently, not least English fans. Yes, he's got a bit of baggage with the 'brand' thing but he's knuckled down and got his rugby head on. A year ago not many of us would be thinking he would be sorely missed if he went to Japan after all.

Yeah, I don't really like the guy but he's a good player. I wouldn't have seen that much of him over in Stade Francais who had a poor season whereas O'Brien has been in a very prominent and successful team. I think O'Brien is showing his ability now but Fitzpatrick was clearly making a comparison in terms of style of play so... talk about a storm in a tea cup.

Anyway, everyone knows Ferris is the real star of the NH backrows Whistle

by bluestonevedder Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:21 pm

DOD wrote:Also Croft is an excellent winger. Not much of a forward though

What a pointless and ill-informed comment. Take it you do watch rugby do you? I suggest you watch a few more England and Leicester games before you make a comment like that again. There are few flankers in the world who can do what Croft does well.

by Cumbrian Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:15 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:ITV have to broadcast to the dummed down English masses who dont know their arse from their elbow when it comes to rugby to be fair. Anyone that knows anything about rugby will tell you that O'Brien has down a lot, Haskell on the other hand became known as 'The Brand' who hasnt actually done anything and will be playing his rugby in Japan very soon.

PS

I'd love to see Ferris vs Haskell again as well, Ferris handed him his ass on a silver platter the last two occassions.

Bit offensive to be honest. Everybody has their fair share of ill-informed rugby fans. I've met plenty of Irish 'band-wagoners' who couldn't even tell you the rules of the game, one thought games lasted 90 minutes! I don't use it to tar all Irish fans with same brush.

As for the Haskell/ O'Brien thing, how DARE somebody have a different opinion from some of you guys eh? There are actually people out there who rate James Haskell, although if you look at some of these boards he's rugby's equivalent of the turd you scraped of your shoe... As it happens, I agree that O'Brien is the better player, but Haskell is a very good player too.

by GunsGerms Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:29 pm

Ozzy3213 (LDCPete) wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:ITV have to broadcast to the dummed down English masses who dont know their arse from their elbow when it comes to rugby to be fair. Anyone that knows anything about rugby will tell you that O'Brien has down a lot, Haskell on the other hand became known as 'The Brand' who hasnt actually done anything and will be playing his rugby in Japan very soon.

PS

I'd love to see Ferris vs Haskell again as well, Ferris handed him his ass on a silver platter the last two occassions.

Lets explore this shall we.

Haskell

Age - 26

Honours
1x 6 Nations winner
2x Premierhship winner
1x Heineken Cup winner

O'Brien

Age - 24

Honours
1x Magners League winner
1x Heineken Cup winner
1x European player of the year

With the exception of the 6 Nations win Haskells other honours came prior to the last 2 years, so at the same age as O'Brien their achievements in the game are remarkably similar.

In fairness to O'Brien, he has had a better season than Haskell and deserves the plaudits that he is receiving, that does not however mean that Haskell is not currently finding some form again.

Now you may be of the opinion that O'Brien is a better player, and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, but please don't start spouting utter incorrect nonsense about what players have achieved as you make yourself look a little silly.

Theres no comparison. Haskell never has or never will be the player O'Brien is at the moment. You can compare medals but its pretty pointless as its a team game. Furthermore Haskell played very little part in Wasps Heineken cup win and was a bench player in the final. OBrien by comparison earned MOTM awards at 6,7 and 8 in this years campaign and was outstanding in the final and became European player of the year. It is an insult to OBrien to be compared to Haskell.

by Hood83 Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:40 pm

leinsterbaby wrote:
Ozzy3213 (LDCPete) wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:ITV have to broadcast to the dummed down English masses who dont know their arse from their elbow when it comes to rugby to be fair. Anyone that knows anything about rugby will tell you that O'Brien has down a lot, Haskell on the other hand became known as 'The Brand' who hasnt actually done anything and will be playing his rugby in Japan very soon.

PS

I'd love to see Ferris vs Haskell again as well, Ferris handed him his ass on a silver platter the last two occassions.

Lets explore this shall we.

Haskell

Age - 26

Honours
1x 6 Nations winner
2x Premierhship winner
1x Heineken Cup winner

O'Brien

Age - 24

Honours
1x Magners League winner
1x Heineken Cup winner
1x European player of the year

With the exception of the 6 Nations win Haskells other honours came prior to the last 2 years, so at the same age as O'Brien their achievements in the game are remarkably similar.

In fairness to O'Brien, he has had a better season than Haskell and deserves the plaudits that he is receiving, that does not however mean that Haskell is not currently finding some form again.

Now you may be of the opinion that O'Brien is a better player, and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, but please don't start spouting utter incorrect nonsense about what players have achieved as you make yourself look a little silly.

Theres no comparison. Haskell never has or never will be the player O'Brien is at the moment. You can compare medals but its pretty pointless as its a team game. Furthermore Haskell played very little part in Wasps Heineken cup win and was a bench player in the final. OBrien by comparison earned MOTM awards at 6,7 and 8 in this years campaign and was outstanding in the final and became European player of the year. It is an insult to OBrien to be compared to Haskell.

Really? I think at his best he's a better player but Haskell has had a good run of consistent form. SOB looks the real deal and someone who could be one of the best back-rowers in the world for many years, but he hasn't been around that long, he could slip back. Haskell started with a bang, dropped off and then seemed to have got some form back. SOB could do the same.

Considering how readily the English are criticised for hyperbole, might be wise to reign in the plaudits for a bit. It's early days in the competition and i don't think we'll learn much about players until then. (SOB was immense Oz to be fair)

by GunsGerms Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:47 pm

The reason I said that is in his short career OBrien has already had a better season by a fair bit than the brand ever has so I think it is fair enough if not a tad dramatic.

by Hood83 Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:05 pm

leinsterbaby wrote:The reason I said that is in his short career OBrien has already had a better season by a fair bit than the brand ever has so I think it is fair enough if not a tad dramatic.

I wouldn't disagree, i can't see Haskell having a season like SOB's had. But SOB will be judged on the next few years. If he slips back, then one great season may not make a great player. I guess we'll see. I'm VERY glad Ferris is looking fit again, i think he's a more complete player.

by mrsuperclear Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:10 pm

leinsterbaby wrote:[It is an insult to OBrien to be compared to Haskell.

Calm down horse. O'Brien's the better player and no one here is disputing that but relax chief. Players are compared with each other all the time, it's no big deal. Earls was described as the next BOD on numerous occasions, which he most certainly isn't (I even remember Darren Cave being described as the heir apparent to the 13 shirt once). Cirpriani and Dan Biggar were supposed to be the next big thing and where are they now? I can't recall how many people they were compared with, they might have even been compared with god himself, but no one, bar perhaps god (can't say for sure, never met the fella), said it was insulting. I don't know how clear I'm being making this point, but the lesson is that some players flop very quickly, and SOB's only really been around for a season or two, so don't big him up too much. I'm not saying I think he will flop, he's consistently put in class performances over the last year unlike the two FH's mentioned, so hopefully he'll continue improving. He's a great player and I'd say definitely better than Haskell but the general English public don't know much about him. They would have only seen him in the HC on skysports, and since skysports isn't free and they wouldn't necessarily be watching Leinster play Clermont and Toulouse, not all of them would have actually seen him. Haskell plays right across the backrow as well, and is quite a decent player himself, so it's a handy enough comparison to make. I highly doubt SOB will be insulted and neither should you chief Hug

by Pot Hale Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:52 pm

O'Brien is but a babe in the woods in rugby. He's had a good RWC so far. Let's see how he goes in the tougher matches coming up. Getting insulted on a player's behalf is taking it all a bit too seriously.

Let's see how Haskell does in helping his team to progress in the RWC, and let's see how well O'Brien does the same.

by bluestonevedder Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:25 pm

Blimey guys, chill out. Can someone not like the two players? I'm English, rate O'Brien incredibly highly, he's a fantastic player. However, I also rate Haskell highly as well. Admittedly, I was sceptical at first, but in the last year he has stepped up his game and honestly completely earned my respect. As he should have done with other rugby fans. You don't have to like or support a player to understand how much work they have put into their game, and how much they have improved. It's pathetic if you can't get passed that. Arguing over which player is better between the two is immature, pedantic and honestly a complete waste of time. Appreciate that both players are probably currently two of the best back row players in the NH, and enjoy it.

Both are hugely physical players, and that is their greatest similarity. O Brien is an amazing ball carrier, Haskell is a good link man.

Let's stop arguing about it. The ability to formulate a good argument without resorting to immature, childish behaviour is part of what makes this game brilliant- it is played by intelligent men, enjoying the competition but able to appreciate great play.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:24 am

James Haskell wrote:Richie McCaw can eat a a Weet-Bix in 15 seconds dry. Two minutes later I am still chewing it. That's probably the difference between us

by Gatts Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:50 am

If SOB is like Haskell that means he has the potential to almost be the world's best number 8.

Thanks Dayglo and Fitzy for clarifying that. Very Happy

by damngoodOvalball Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:17 am

leinsterbaby wrote: It is an insult to OBrien to be compared to Haskell.

I doubt SOB feels insulted about being compared to another rugby player, certainly not as insulted as you seem to be on his behalf Leinster! Anyone who actually watches rugby will know that SOB is a better player than JH. Do you actually think that Fitzpatrick was saying that Haskell is better than SOB? More likely you just fell for DOD's WUM as it gave you a chance to feel insulted and outraged.

Well done DOD, realing in your own countrymen now!

by Breadvan Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:01 am

Jeez... Woebetide anyone comments that an Ireland player isn't the best rugby player ever Rolling Eyes

. To say SOB will be insulted by a comparison to JH is pedantic at best. Both are top players.

DOD on his usual old 606 form boxing

by **rodders** Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:52 am

Yeah I found it pretty funny too. In fairness to Haskell he is a much improved player and has been one of Englands better players this season.

No comparison really though, O'brien is something else. I'd be very surprised if he isn't in the World player of the year shortlist this year.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:03 am

Its the mental leap it takes to interpret that in saying he "was almost like" they actually meant "not as good as" that I find strange.

If I said an Oompa Loompa was a bit like Jonny Wilkinson because they are both short, orange, talk a load of convoluted nonsense at times and couldnt run for a bus it wouldnt mean that I was saying that JW was a worse rugby player.
Like yesterday in the cricket commentary they were saying Borthwick was a bit like Shane Warne ( no not that Borthwick) because of the style of his bowling, not because he was the greatest spinner in the modern era.

If you want to be offended you can always find something to be offended by.
All the said was that he has some similar attributes to Haskell, they are both mobile all round modern backrow players. Get upset by the anglo-centrism that leads the pundits to describe "foriegn" players in terms of their similarity to English ones so that the majority has a frame of refernce by all means....its a while since the itv bias horse has been flogged.

by GunsGerms Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:59 am

Sean "tullow tank" OBrien even has a much cooler nickname than "the brand" Haskell. No comparison really. It would be like comparing Matt Banahan with Jonah Lomu.

by Geordie Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:34 am

"It would be like comparing Matt Banahan with Jonah Lomu.."

I know i mean come on...the Jersey juggernaught is simply unplayable at times... Wink

by GunsGerms Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:49 am

Jersey juggernaut wins on the nickname front. Should make a RWC players top trumps game.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:54 am

Also Croft is an excellent winger. Not much of a forward though

You really can't think that, the bloke has been England's best backrower this tournament and his speed, line out skill and breakdown ability mean he is a real pain in the backside to the opposition. He certainly had a big hand in England's win over Ireland at the Aviva.

Jersey juggernaut wins on the nickname front. Should make a RWC players top trumps game..

Yes definitely.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:56 am

leinsterbaby wrote:Jersey juggernaut wins on the nickname front. Should make a RWC players top trumps game.

Bit pointless since Geoge North trumps everything.

by nathan Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:47 pm

leinsterbaby wrote:The reason I said that is in his short career OBrien has already had a better season by a fair bit than the brand ever has so I think it is fair enough if not a tad dramatic.

but as you mentioned already, how much was this down to him playing in a better team?

by **rodders** Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:54 pm

nathan wrote:
leinsterbaby wrote:The reason I said that is in his short career OBrien has already had a better season by a fair bit than the brand ever has so I think it is fair enough if not a tad dramatic.
but as you mentioned already, how much was this down to him playing in a better team?

None of it. O'Brien makes Leinster look good, not the other way round in my opinion. Not that they don't have other excellent players but O'Brien is a catalyst for a lot that is good about them.

O'Brien is a very special player in my opinion whereas Haskell is just a very good one.

by Effervescing Elephant Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:57 pm

Do you love him just a tiiiiiiny bit too much?

by **rodders** Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Carpe Diem wrote:Do you love him just a tiiiiiiny bit too much?

No I

him just the right amount, a bit more than Heaslip and a bit less than Ferris Wink

by offload Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:25 pm

As an aficianado of the game of rugby football - I can tell you with some authority that Croft is a very good number 6 - playing well at the moment. Furthermore, O'Brien is playing out of his skin right now.

Haskell, is no doubt difficult to like unless you are a die hard England fan. I must conceed though that he has come back to form and has played well so far in this WC. If we were looking for Lions right now - we would be very strong in the back row and would face a difficult choice.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:31 pm

None of it. O'Brien makes Leinster look good, not the other way round in my opinion. Not that they don't have other excellent players but O'Brien is a catalyst for a lot that is good about them.

Not sure about that, SOB is on the backrow of one of the most mobile and physical packs in European rugby he is in an enviroment that suits him perfectly where Leinster can happily tailor his flanking partner to the opposition is order that SOB can continue to be available to smash things and not have to worry about much else. He is also helped by having an international backline that give him plenty of attacking opportunities to link onto. An undoubtably talented player and future Lion but he doesn't over shadow his province with his ability.

by Hound_of_Harrow Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:10 pm

I like watching both players; they bring slightly different games to their respective national sides. But which one was so convinced (big headed) about his own ability to make the following statement when commenting on opposition defences at the RWC...

"If there aren't any holes, I'll have to make one".

Just saying like

Whistle

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:26 pm

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:I like watching both players; they bring slightly different games to their respective national sides. But which one was so convinced (big headed) about his own ability to make the following statement when commenting on opposition defences at the RWC...

"If there aren't any holes, I'll have to make one".

Just saying like

But whats he like when it comes to eating weetabix without milk?

by Hound_of_Harrow Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:31 pm

Not in McCaw's league obviously.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:33 pm

Exactly, two bald men fighting over a comb again.

by Hound_of_Harrow Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:52 pm

Yup, that's about right.

thumbsup

by GunsGerms Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:58 pm

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Not in McCaw's league obviously.

Well no if you compare them as 7s but OBrien is a better 6 or 8 than McCaw. They essentially play different positions and have different strengths.

Probably one of the hardest players to tackle at the WC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDTmdDhGO50&feature=youtube_gdata_player

by GunsGerms Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:03 pm

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Not in McCaw's league obviously.

Well no if you compare them as 7s but OBrien is a better 6 or 8 than McCaw. They essentially play different positions and have different strengths.

Probably one of the hardest players to tackle at the WC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDTmdDhGO50&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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