Scotland vs England - Match Thread - Team News - etc...

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

How the teams line up

England team: B Foden; C Ashton, M Tuilagi, M Tindall, D Armitage; J Wilkinson, B Youngs; M Stevens, S Thompson, D Cole, L Deacon, C Lawes, T Croft, L Moody (capt), J Haskell.

Replacements: D Hartley, A Corbisiero, T Palmer, N Easter, R Wigglesworth, T Flood, M Banahan.

Scotland team: C Paterson; M Evans, J Ansbro, S Lamont, S Danielli; R Jackson, M Blair; A Jacobsen, R Ford, E Murray, R Gray, A Kellock (capt), A Strokosch , J Barclay, R Vernon.

Replacements: S Lawson, A Dickinson, N Hines, R Rennie, C Cusiter, D Parks, N De Luca.



Last 10 meetings

2011 England 22 - 16 Scotland
2010 Scotland 15 - 15 England
2009 England 26 - 12 Scotland
2008 Scotland 15 - 9 England
2007 England 42 - 20 Scotland
2006 Scotland 18 - 12 England
2005 England 43 - 22 Scotland
2004 Scotland 13 - 35 England
2003 England 40 - 9 Scotland
2002 Scotland 3 - 29 England

England 7 - Scotland 2 - Draw 1

England 273 pts - Scotland 143 pts


IMO on paper the Scots might as well start packing their bags, but I have a strange feeling they might just pull it off, Chris Paterson will have plenty of shots at goal if England continue getting penalised at the breakdown and we all know what that means, he very rarely misses unless his wearing cherry and White!

Or am I being silly?


RWC so far

England

Argentina 9 - 13 England
England 41 - 10 Georgia
England 67 - 3 Romania

England PF 121 pts - PA 22pts


Scotland

Scotland 34 - 24 Romania
Scotland 15 - 6 Georgia
Argentina 13 - 12 Scotland

Scotland PF 61 - PA 43


Missed this one,

England 17 tries to Scotlands 4



Discuss

[BigTrevsbigmac]

never in doubt - calm down-

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

FT 16 - 12.

Well it wasn't the assumed drubbing - did I read someone said England by 17?

Well done both sides.

TGG's tipster service did score big on the Tonga result though

[Cumbrian]

Hammer - i dunno, i just don't like him. He has a very punchable face if you know what I mean.

He's just too cocky for me - needs to settle down a bit. Comes across as very immature. Can't win or lose gracefully. And I'd say that even if he played for Wales as well.

You'd say the same about George North, constantly taunting and patting the opposition's heads when he goes over for tries then?

[Cari]

Someone kill Kevin the psychic cat!!!

[Ozzy3213]

England do not deserve this. But clinical. W is all that counts.

Why do England not deserve it?

[Gatts]

england and france.. tale of two sides playing horribly.

Well played Scotland. They can be proud as hell.

? You're joking. Proud, no way they won't be, they'll be justifiably gutted.

[Breadvan]

Get out of jail free card used by England there. Some poor decisions by JW to try drop goals when in some great attacking positions. Scotland played well. So frustrating watching England sometimes...

[Notch]

What's right with Ashton Thunor mate?

Just kidding. Scotland would probably be in the quarter-finals if they knew how to convert possession into tries. No tries against Argentina and England only to lose to a late try on both occasions. Noticing a pattern- the number of time in that second half they went wide only to see Ansbro predictably bundled into touch...

England haven't looked great but the draw has opened up for them to hit their stride. France are seriously malfunctioning then if they get a good win they can build towards Ireland, Australia or Wales in the semi. They could yet be contenders despite average performances against Argentina and Scotland.

[BATH_BTGOG]

What a load of rubbish.

Flood has to start for me and simpson has to be on the bench, Youngs looks so slow and a player who looks like his playing with chains on.

Thank god Ashton got that try.

Shocking performance.

Hard luck Scotland but you should have beaten Argentina.

[G2]

Wow, that was a bit too close, but now France who don't seem to care

[Gatts]

Someone kill Kevin the psychic cat!!!

He is already on craigslist, I am swapping him for a Harley

[trebellbobaggins]

no not joking. that was a heck of a game from them.

[Gatts]

England do not deserve this. But clinical. W is all that counts.

Why do England not deserve it?

Er, cos i said so?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Congrats, England

[Ozzy3213]

England do not deserve this. But clinical. W is all that counts.

Why do England not deserve it?

Er, cos i said so?

Ah, it must be right then if you said so.

[Gatts]

Methinks Robinson will resign

[EnglishReign]

Scotland might yet go through, Georgia are no mugs.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Hard to feel sorry for the scotts boohooing away after they spent so much time bullying the fat kid in the england front row

[Gatts]

England do not deserve this. But clinical. W is all that counts.

Why do England not deserve it?

Er, cos i said so?

Ah, it must be right then if you said so.

Someone rattle your cage? Did you watch the game? England were atrocious

[HammerofThunor]

France are exactly where everyone expected them to be after the pools. In the quarters as runners up. Doesn't matter how they got there. Knock-out stages you can start a fresh

[rodders]

Well played Scotland. They can be proud as hell.

No I don't think so. They need to take a real look a themselves and how they've failed to close out two games they should have won.

There's no need to panic in terms of personel and coaches but they have to learn how to take points when they have opportunities and show composure on the ball. They have a decent core group of players but there are too many silly errors to win at this level.

[Gatts]

Well played Scotland. They can be proud as hell.

No I don't think so. They need to take a real look a themselves and how they've failed to close out two games they should have won.

There's no need to panic in terms of personel and coaches but they have to learn how to take points when they have opportunities and show composure on the ball. They have a decent core group of players but there are too many silly errors to win at this level.

What he said

[Gatts]

Parksy...is that a borders accent?

[doctornickolas]

Same story from Scotland.

Can't score tries, can't create opportunities to score tries, never look like scoring tries.

The fact is that Scotland don't have a single back that would get in any other 6 nations or tri nations team other than Italy.

England will need to buck up their ideas to get any further though. They have the 'luxury' of playing France next round who look dreadful. I think if they were playing Ireland or Wales next then they would get well beaten and I expect the winner of that quarter final to get to the final.


Youngs is dreadful. Mike Phillips gets stick of he takes 2 or 3 steps before passing but Youngs does it every time, Wilkinson has lost it.

[flyhalffactory]

Damn and blast................ second weekend we can feel aggrieved by that result


Have to say congrats to England

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Get out of jail free card used by England there. Some poor decisions by JW to try drop goals when in some great attacking positions. Scotland played well. So frustrating watching England sometimes...

Agree with you there. They went in with a conservative mindset in every aspect.



Can we now start talking about Toby Flood being exactly the kind of player you need to close out a tright game?

[Cumbrian]

I don't want to sound like an ungracious winner here, but I don't get the platitudes for Scotland. Why are they so brave? They played a game of rugby like anyone else! Why was it a great performance? If England had played like that, people would still call us Poopie.

Respect the Scotland lads because they gave their all but all this praise sounds a little patronising to me.

[Guest]

come on england, although lot of credit to scotland, they played their hearts out, but ashton popping up at the end with a try, brilliant

[Gatts]

Ironically France are s disorganised that they might cause England just as many problems. They too will raise their game but I htink Eng will be more composed and ought to win

[flyhalffactory]

Same story from Scotland.

Can't score tries, can't create opportunities to score tries, never look like scoring tries.

The fact is that Scotland don't have a single back that would get in any other 6 nations or tri nations team other than Italy.

England will need to buck up their ideas to get any further though. They have the 'luxury' of playing France next round who look dreadful. I think if they were playing Ireland or Wales next then they would get well beaten and I expect the winner of that quarter final to get to the final.


Youngs is dreadful. Mike Phillips gets stick of he takes 2 or 3 steps before passing but Youngs does it every time, Wilkinson has lost it.

Are you mad?

Did you actually watch the game?

We might not have scored any tries but we created quite a few opportunities in the match

[rodders]

Can't score tries, can't create opportunities to score tries, never look like scoring tries.

The fact is that Scotland don't have a single back that would get in any other 6 nations or tri nations team other than Italy.

It's hard to create opportunities if you knock on, concede a penalty or kick the ball away after two phases. There is not enough carrying from the pack.

Lamont x 2, Danielli, Ansboro and Evans would all push for places in the other sides and would likely score plenty of tries as well.

[mckay1402]

for me scotland lost it when they went for the drop goal instead of keep ploughing forward. right under the posts and going forward. any other tier one team would have scored a try there

[Guest]

it was a typical northern hemisphere game, i do feel that flood should start against france, and i have said all thorughout the tournament that i would prefer flood 10 and hape 12.

[Ozzy3213]

England do not deserve this. But clinical. W is all that counts.

Why do England not deserve it?

Er, cos i said so?

Ah, it must be right then if you said so.

Someone rattle your cage? Did you watch the game? England were atrocious

I did watch the game. England scored more points than Scotland, and took their chance when it came, so I don't see how England didn't deserve to win. Scotland put in a shift for sure, but ultimately were not good enough to finish the job.

England fell below standard, in the main due to Scotland forcing them down with their intensity, but ultimately England found a way to get the job done, hence they deserved to win.

Seemples.

[Knowsit17]

Good win England in the end. Some critics may bash away at them but let's face it, they're not all that (not bad, just not as good as some make out) and the fact that they were made to edge it rather than cruise in 30 pts by HT isn't that much of a surprise. To think they only had to turn up was just disrespect to the Scots.

It is my opinion that the favourites very rarely take the opposition as seriously as they should any more. France paid the price just hours earlier and other sides have been pushed close. As a Wales supporter I can only say I hope we don't make this mistake tomorrow.

Oh, and Nick Mullins is a real tool.

[mckay1402]

I think after that showing Ireland and Wales will both be looking forward to a semi against England

[Imperialbigdave]

As a Scotland fan, Well played England. We did not deserve anything other than what we got. Dan Parks' insistence on going for Drop goals and up and unders if we dont break through the opposition in one go is criminal. He must NEVER play for scotland again, although weve been saying that for years, yet it still happens.

Robbinson was on a yellow after the argentina game for bringing Dickinson on when he wasnt needed. He should now be shown a red. He doesnt learn from his mistakes, and that is inexcusable.

Im not proud of this Scotland campaign. Im ashamed. THrough a combination of factors, they have disgraced our nation, and really shown that we are no longer a tier 1 nation.

[rodders]

I tell you what if Ireland or Wales can't get to the final this year they may as well give 2015 a miss.

England have been poor and France a disaster. They'll never get a better chance to reach a final but there is along way to go.

Wales look like the team to beat in this side of the pool right now. They are miles ahead of the other sides IMHO.

[Portnoy]

England won simply because England did what England do.

Great dog lads.

[Ozzy3213]

That's a fair comment rodders, I did say yesterday that I can see a South Africa vs. Wales/Ireland final.

[Gatts]

England do not deserve this. But clinical. W is all that counts.

Why do England not deserve it?

Er, cos i said so?

Ah, it must be right then if you said so.

Someone rattle your cage? Did you watch the game? England were atrocious

I did watch the game. England scored more points than Scotland, and took their chance when it came, so I don't see how England didn't deserve to win. Scotland put in a shift for sure, but ultimately were not good enough to finish the job.

England fell below standard, in the main due to Scotland forcing them down with their intensity, but ultimately England found a way to get the job done, hence they deserved to win.

Seemples.

Gosh thanks for explaining that LDC Pete...all seems so obvious to me now. And you aren't being authoritative at all

[Guest]

oooh Nathan Hines

Hearbreaking for them

[Guest]

incredibly dignified interview with Kellock there, fair play to him.

[rodders]

Me too Pete. I'm not ruling France or England out but the winner of that Wales/Ireland game (if Ireland beat Italy) have a great chance of reaching the final on current form.

[Notch]

I agree with Cumbrian to an extent. I respect Scotland for their passion and determination, but there hasn't been enough skill, ambition or flair to go with it to consistently win test matches against tier 1 sides.

Concentrating on their great team spirit and ignoring the deficiencies does them no favours in the long run. I personally would have loved to see them find that extra gear in attack this morning because a try for them in that match, against Argentina- could all be so different.

Reading that back it's really harsh, especially coming from a no-mark armchair critic who couldn't cope with two minutes of test rugby like me. But I'm so disappointed to see Scotland exit early that I feel it does no good to ignore the elephant in the room.

[Guest]

I don't think they are ignoring it Notch. Kellock certainly isn't, he knows they should have created more and said where they need to improve. Think in situations like this you do have to take some positives out though otherwise it would just hurt too much.

[rodders]

I agree with Cumbrian to an extent. I respect Scotland for their passion and determination, but there hasn't been enough skill, ambition or flair to go with it to consistently win test matches against tier 1 sides.

I think the ambition has been there notch, just not the composure or execution.

[Eclipse]

England have the mental strength and belief in tight games to get over the line and get the win. They are not playing well but keep getting the wins. France seem to be in disarray but you never know which french team are going to come out. They also seem to have a psychological issue when it comes to taking on England. It all points to England reaching the semi. Ireland or Wales (I'm assuming they'll both win tomorrow) won't be too worried by the form that England and France have shown but they both know that that counts for nothing. Are England and France just doing enough and giving us Celts real belief that we can actually make the final or is my confidence based on real substance?

[HammerofThunor]

Typical arrogant Ashton. How dare he want to score an important try next week

[rodders]

Are England and France just doing enough and giving us Celts real belief that we can actually make the final or is my confidence based on real substance?

No it's real substance. There's no point being cagey about it. If Wales keep playing the way they are then they will beat England or France, unless they improve drastically. Possibly Ireland too but I think Wales have the edge on Ireland right now.

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