Scotland v England Match Thread, Teams etc....

[HERSH]

Scotland:

15 Rory Lamont,
14 Lee Jones,
13 Nick De Luca,
12 Sean Lamont,
11 Max Evans,
10 Dan Parks,
9 Chris Cusiter;
8 David Denton,
7 Ross Rennie,
6 Alasdair Strokosch,
5 Jim Hamilton,
4 Richie Gray,
3 Euan Murray,
2 Ross Ford (captain),
1 Allan Jacobsen.

Replacements: Scott Lawson, Geoff Cross, Alastair Kellock, John Barclay, Mike Blair, Greig Laidlaw, Graeme Morrison.

Added Spice
The Scottish Rugby Union have been left embarassed after T-shirts boasting of a Calcutta Cup win appeared on sale five days before this Saturday's match.

The mistake by the SRU's online retail partner led to T-shirts from Scotland's win in 2008 being re-released.

The shirts bore the logo: "Calcutta Cup. Scotland. Winners."

The blunder comes days after Scotland head coach Andy Robinson stood by comments he made after the World Cup accusing England of 'arrogance'.

England Squad

15 Ben Foden;
14 Chris Ashton;
13 Brad Barritt,
12 Owen Farrell,
11 David Strettle;
10 Charlie Hodgson;
9 Ben Youngs;
1 Alex Corbisiero,
2 Dylan Hartley,
3 Dan Cole;
4 Mouritz Botha,
5 Tom Palmer;
6 Tom Croft,
7 Chris Robshaw (captain),
8 Phil Dowson.

Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Jordan Turner-Hall, Mike Brown.

[rodders]

9-3 to Scotland..... .....Yawn

[Ozzy3213]

If it is a result divisible by 3 I would fancy us to win it. Farrell doesn't miss much, and we have excluded most of the players from the team who give lots of penalties away.

[eirebilly]

Unless England has a massive turn around in their discipline, i see Scotland winning on penalties. It should be a good hard match i feel.

That said, England will play some amazing rugby and win by 20

[Geordie]

The Scottish Rugby Union have been left embarassed after T-shirts boasting of a Calcutta Cup win appeared on sale five days before this Saturday's match.

It wont be embarrassing if they kick our a$$es back over Hadrians Wall!!!

[Geordie]

Unless England has a massive turn around in their discipline, i see Scotland winning on penalties. It should be a good hard match i feel.

That said, England will play some amazing rugby and win by 20

[RuggerRadge2611]

I'm hoping for 1 of 2 things.

1. Scotland's forwards utterly dominate and bully England's into submission. A crushing forward based win with plenty of Backrow tries.

2. England expose Dan Parks as the liability we all know he is and put a cricket score against us.

Put it another way. I won't be happy having spent a rediculous ammount on tickets to watch Dan Parks kick the leather off the ball for 80 minutes and Scotland to score nothing other than Penalties and Drop goals.

[HERSH]

I fancy Scotland to win a tight game I went for less tahn 7pts.

But saying that if England are allowed to play then I can see them winning well.

[eirebilly]

Unless England has a massive turn around in their discipline, i see Scotland winning on penalties. It should be a good hard match i feel.

That said, England will play some amazing rugby and win by 20

Tongue in cheek Geordie

[Geordie]

Tongue in cheek Geordie

Dont do that to me

The forward battle is going to be huge. Scotland have a pwoer pack...and with Parks there are going to play territory.

BUT...

Englands set piece is generally strong or at least solid...and despite Corbs lack of form...i think a few weeks training with Rowntree will have the front row ..and indeed the pack ready.

Where it will be won and lost is if Scotland can grind the game down with a power forward game...or if England have had enough time to rectify the major issues of slow ball and breakdown immaturity and play a high tempo pacy game.

Im suspecting the first...but obviously hope for the latter..

[maestegmafia]

how long have England and Scotland been training prior to this match? As the PRL don't release players outside of the IRB window.

[Guest]

how long have England and Scotland been training prior to this match? As the PRL don't release players outside of the IRB window.

You really need to get over this

[TJ1]

I was optimistic until Parks was selected - now I give the game to England as they will score tries - probably of countering from kicks and Scotland will not as Parks kills the attack

[RuggerRadge2611]

If we are losing at half time and Blair and Laidlaw are not brought on I think I'll walk.

[eirebilly]

Sorry about that Geordie

Parks selection means that Scotland are looking for a game of attrition TJ, thats why i have them beating England due to Englands indiscipline.

There is this myth that Scotland are a boring team, i dont find them boring. Their support play is the most frustrating thing about their game. They can make the breaks but they just dont seem to expect it so there is hardly any support play...

[beshocked]

Why so pessimistic about Dan Parks?

Dan Parks is an international class fly half with 66 caps for Scotland. He is the Pro 12 top points scorer. Parks showed incredible form in the 2010 6 nations picking up three MOM awards.

He scored all the points in the victory vs Georgia - 15 -6.

Only need to look at Dan Parks wiki page to see his glittering career and accolades.

If Dan Parks can rediscover his 2010 6 nations form you'll have a deadly world class fly half at your disposal.

Scotland to win 18-13 - Dan Parks to be MOM.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Scotland:

15 Rory Lamont,
14 Lee Jones,
13 Nick De Luca,
12 Sean Lamont,
11 Max Evans,
10 Dan Parks,
9 Chris Cusiter;
8 David Denton,
7 Ross Rennie,
6 Alasdair Strokosch,
5 Jim Hamilton,
4 Richie Gray,
3 Euan Murray,
2 Ross Ford (captain),
1 Allan Jacobsen.

Replacements: Scott Lawson, Geoff Cross, Alastair Kellock, John Barclay, Mike Blair, Greig Laidlaw, Graeme Morrison.

Added Spice
The Scottish Rugby Union have been left embarassed after T-shirts boasting of a Calcutta Cup win appeared on sale five days before this Saturday's match.

The mistake by the SRU's online retail partner led to T-shirts from Scotland's win in 2008 being re-released.
The shirts bore the logo: "Calcutta Cup. Scotland. Winners."

The blunder comes days after Scotland head coach Andy Robinson stood by comments he made after the World Cup accusing England of 'arrogance'.

England Squad

Forwards (13): Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dan Cole (Leicester), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Stevens (Saracens); Dylan Hartley (Northampton), Rob Webber (Wasps); Mouritz Botha (Saracens), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais), Geoff Parling (Leicester); Tom Croft (Leicester), Phil Dowson (Northampton), Ben Morgan (Scarlets), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins - capt).

Backs (11): Mike Brown (Harlequins), Ben Foden (Northampton), Chris Ashton (Northampton), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester), David Strettle (Saracens); Brad Barritt (Saracens), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins); Charlie Hodgson (Saracens); Lee Dickson (Northampton), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

So in effect, the SRU aren't embarrassed. It wasn't their mistake.

[Imperialbigdave]

Why so pessimistic about Dan Parks?

Dan Parks is an international class fly half with 66 caps for Scotland. He is the Pro 12 top points scorer. Parks showed incredible form in the 2010 6 nations picking up three MOM awards.

He scored all the points in the victory vs Georgia - 15 -6.

Only need to look at Dan Parks wiki page to see his glittering career and accolades.

If Dan Parks can rediscover his 2010 6 nations form you'll have a deadly world class fly half at your disposal.

Scotland to win 18-13 - Dan Parks to be MOM.

Had this been anyone other than you or HERSH, I would of taken the bait. As it stands, ill give you a C-.

[TrailApe]

Geordie

It wont be embarrassing if they kick our a$$es back over Hadrians Wall!!!.

I'm quite perturbed by this - are you ceding the vast majority of Northumberland to those pesky Scots?

(or is this just for those geographically challenged posters from the South)

[RuggerRadge2611]

Why so pessimistic about Dan Parks?

Dan Parks is an international class fly half with 66 caps for Scotland. He is the Pro 12 top points scorer. Parks showed incredible form in the 2010 6 nations picking up three MOM awards.

He scored all the points in the victory vs Georgia - 15 -6.

Only need to look at Dan Parks wiki page to see his glittering career and accolades.

If Dan Parks can rediscover his 2010 6 nations form you'll have a deadly world class fly half at your disposal.

Scotland to win 18-13 - Dan Parks to be MOM.

The bits in bold are true.

He's not the pro 12 top points scorer, Duncan Weir is.

Sure he scored all the points against Georgia, but it was hissing down and anti-rugby was the only option. We have better players than Parks.

I'm sick of the sight of Parks for Scotland. His brand of rugby is an abomination and represents everything thats wrong with Rugby Union.

[HERSH]

I like Dan Parks as a player, I just don't understand why people are so negative about him?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

So in effect, the SRU aren't embarrassed. It wasn't their mistake.[/quote]

It wasnt a mistake at all.. you think anyone would have even noticed they were on there if they hadnt told the press to drum up traffic on the website and interest in the game?
Its called marketting. Its still mildly amussing in light of Robinsons comments though.

[TrailApe]

I like Dan Parks as a player, I just don't understand why people are so negative about him?.

Hersh - stop baiting the Scots - they don't deserve it AND some of us have to live with them!

[HERSH]

On his day Dan Parks can turn a game, if his up for it on Saturday then Scotland will win.

[HammerofThunor]

Parks is capable of great play and does it just enough to keep the coaches interested. Unfortunately when he's bad he's very very bad. I also feel in my waters that Parks is going to have a stormer and win it for Scotland 9-3

Regarding the release. Well The EPS players for England were released at the beginning of last week. I presume it was the same for the Scottish based players for Scotland. The English based players for Scotland would have been released at the beginning of last week for 3 days, then went back to their clubs for last weekend match, then back to Scotland. They will have to return to their clubs for the off weekends in the middle of the competition.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Geordie

It wont be embarrassing if they kick our a$$es back over Hadrians Wall!!!.

I'm quite perturbed by this - are you ceding the vast majority of Northumberland to those pesky Scots?

(or is this just for those geographically challenged posters from the South)

To be honest they are welcome to everything down to ( and including ) Hull

[RuggerRadge2611]

On his day Dan Parks can turn a game, if his up for it on Saturday then Scotland will win.

He can, but those days are few and far between. Scotland have better players who can play 10 at the moment so his selection is undoubtedly a backwards step. I'll say no more about it on here since we have pages on other threads of my fellow Scottish posters ranting about it.

[HammerofThunor]

Geordie

It wont be embarrassing if they kick our a$$es back over Hadrians Wall!!!.

I'm quite perturbed by this - are you ceding the vast majority of Northumberland to those pesky Scots?

(or is this just for those geographically challenged posters from the South)

To be honest they are welcome to everything down to ( and including ) Hull

Bugger off

[Tattie Scones RRN]

So in effect, the SRU aren't embarrassed. It wasn't their mistake.

It wasnt a mistake at all.. you think anyone would have even noticed they were on there if they hadnt told the press to drum up traffic on the website and interest in the game?
Its called marketting. Its still mildly amussing in light of Robinsons comments though. [/quote]

Sorry....I forgot you ran the marketing department up there.

[beshocked]

Joke aside I agree Parks is not a good choice. You Scots are finding out why England got rid off Andy Robinson.

The difficulty is changing Scotland's style. Andy Robinson is conservative. He is not willing to take risks.

I personally wouldn't have picked Parks but it certainly helps England's cause.

That is unless of course he does rediscover some form. Just remember the spirited efforts against Wales and Ireland in 2010.

[Triangulation]

1. Andy Robinson has behaved rather sanctimoniously. The SRU shirt fiasco should have him embarrassed as hell if he has the decency.

2. Andy Robinson, Sir Clive, Graham Henry and old mother hubbard have seen fit recently to critique England and to give us advice. Frankly they can all go and get F****d! If Graham sincerely wanted to help he should've indicated a willingness to apply for the coaching job rather than sit there throwing stones.

3. I am disappointed to see Attwood being sent home. Why? To me he looks like the perfect blend of old school mongrel and modern athletic lock.

Please can someone shed some light on this?

4. Dowson. Curious and curiouser. If he was any good surely he would have won a cap or two before his 31st birthday. I can see i suppose that he is a handybenchm'n but if he starts at 8 over a specialist form 8 in Morgan i'll be disappointed.

8 is a specialist position.

2,8,9,10,15 and increasingly 7 are the SPINE - key players, players who get their mitts on the ball a lot and they are the key decision makers.

If you put part timers in any of these spots you dont deserve to be coaching at all.

4. Brown should NOT be on the bench for England. He plays full back and nowhere else so is not ideal bench cover. Start him in a home game if he's good enough. Foden could be on the bench covering wing at a push.

[HERSH]

Attwood was sent home as he helped himself to another sausage at breakfast without asking permission from Lancaster first.

They had been warned, the naughty fellow!

[HERSH]

Surprised to see so many people going for Scotland.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Surprised to see so many people going for Scotland.

Me too, with Parks starting I'll be willing to bet that Scotland's score will be a multiple of 3.

How do you see it going HERSH?

[HERSH]

It won't be pretty but I think Scotland by 3/4 pts

[ScarletSpiderman]

I went for Scotland by less than 7pts. I did this due to the fact I am not too sure what tactics etc the English will employ especialy due to a new coach. However there are shades of what Gatland did with the welsh side when he took over, and select players who know each otehr from clubs and then see how they function together internationally, so if they do click in teh white shirt I guess I wouldn't be too supirsed if they did win.

[HERSH]

Nah, we're not as lucky as the Welsh

[George Carlin]

Soem particularly whiffy cobblers being written about this shirt c*ck up.

Unfortunately for those who want to make more of this than there is - the position is very clear. It was something done without the knowledge or instigation of the SRU or Robinson.

HERSH - am v interested to know why you think it's surprising that so many people are coming down for Scotland. Do you think that England are better than people are supposing, that Scotland will be worse, or both?

Or do you think the fact that England haven't won at Murrayfield since 2004 is insignificant? I'm not WUMMing, you genuinely might.

[HERSH]

I too think Scotland will win but I have a good knowledge of the game, so I'm surprised so many other 606er (6 nations bandwagon fans) have Scotland as favourites.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

The 2004 thing is a stat that sounds more daunting that the reality, 3 games 1 of which was a draw. England could have won any of those games ( in the Welsh sense). Prior to that they tended to pan Scotland up there.
Whilst its still "sub optimal" by the standards England aspire to they havent been beaten by a significant margin since the mid 80's. Even the best Scotland has produced in recent years has struggled to put away the worst of England ( although to be fair both sides grossly unperformed in a couple of those games)
Its not quite in the realms of the Ireland hoodoo yet, but the weather and passion of Scotland for this fixture act as levellers. Noone will be taking it lightly, and Scotland clearly have the pack to do some damage. Maybe theres a slight mental block that England feel they should be winning this but that theres little glory if they do. More a fear of losing than a quest for victory. Perhaps thats why they tend to fare better in Cardiff despite the Welsh usually having a stronger team.
Maybe its just arrogance, but if England can turn this into a gme of rugby rather than a game of mistakes this time then they shoudl win.

[bathmad]

I was worried until Scotland's team selection was posted. The 10 can't pass, and the 12 and 13 are one trick ponies. The wingers will get cold, and Rory Lamont will give up and go home by half time.
Much has been made of Scottish power in the pack, but the front row won't get any change out of Corbisiero, Hartley, and Cole. Where Scotland should look to target is the lineout. Back rows should be relatively evenly matched, although if England start to click, the power/pace combo should be superior to Scotland's back row. Thought Barclay would have been picked, but nevermind.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Bathmad

I disagree mate - our front row could potentially hammer your one all day long.

The front five is our real area of strength against the English.

I mean - if Corbisiero couldn't cope with Cross, how the hell is he going to manage Murray?

[bathmad]

Corbisiero dealt comfortably with Murray, Ross, and whichever beast France picked last year.

[HERSH]

"if Corbisiero couldn't cope with Cross, how the hell is he going to manage Murray?"

Tell him it's a Sunday!

[George Carlin]

Corbisiero dealt comfortably with Murray, Ross, and whichever beast France picked last year.

That's extremely subjective, Bathmad and I suspect that Corbs is not in the best of form at present as it is undeniable he got his backside handed to him the entire match by Cross a week or so ago. What is also true is that Cross is about our third most effective scrummager in that position (after Murray and Low) and so you have to allow for the possibility that a settled Scottish front row (which is two-thirds of a Lions front row, incidentally) is going to give England real problems. Let's see.

[Geordie]

Geordie

It wont be embarrassing if they kick our a$$es back over Hadrians Wall!!!.

I'm quite perturbed by this - are you ceding the vast majority of Northumberland to those pesky Scots?

(or is this just for those geographically challenged posters from the South)

To be honest they are welcome to everything down to ( and including ) Hull

I can only assume your wife must have run off with a Geordie....

[Geordie]

Much has been made of Scottish power in the pack, but the front row won't get any change out of Corbisiero, Hartley, and Cole.

Bathmad,

I been thinking about that aswell....whilst they might not be on fire around the park...they are a pretty strong set piece scrummaging trio...

[bathmad]

Corbisiero dealt comfortably with Murray, Ross, and whichever beast France picked last year.

That's extremely subjective, Bathmad and I suspect that Corbs is not in the best of form at present as it is undeniable he got his backside handed to him the entire match by Cross a week or so ago. What is also true is that Cross is about our third most effective scrummager in that position (after Murray and Low) and so you have to allow for the possibility that a settled Scottish front row (which is two-thirds of a Lions front row, incidentally) is going to give England real problems. Let's see.

Fair enough. Although Murray also isn't in good form. Newcastle pack has been retreating at a rate of knots. As an ex prop, also need to consider who's providing the grunt behind, and I think you have the edge in the 2nd row on that front.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Geordie

It wont be embarrassing if they kick our a$$es back over Hadrians Wall!!!.

I'm quite perturbed by this - are you ceding the vast majority of Northumberland to those pesky Scots?

(or is this just for those geographically challenged posters from the South)

To be honest they are welcome to everything down to ( and including ) Hull

I can only assume your wife must have run off with a Geordie....

I dont hate you that much, i wouldnt inflict her on anything other than a welshman

To be fair Id keep Durham and York. I went to Newcastle, the locals tried to set us on fire (true story), wouldnt bother again. Cumbria, you can see why they didnt bother with a proper wall that side.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Corbisiero dealt comfortably with Murray, Ross, and whichever beast France picked last year.

That's extremely subjective, Bathmad and I suspect that Corbs is not in the best of form at present as it is undeniable he got his backside handed to him the entire match by Cross a week or so ago. What is also true is that Cross is about our third most effective scrummager in that position (after Murray and Low) and so you have to allow for the possibility that a settled Scottish front row (which is two-thirds of a Lions front row, incidentally) is going to give England real problems. Let's see.

+1
Corbisero was mauled by a tight head who's greatest contribution is in open play, not scrummaging. I expect without Thompson and Sherridan the English front row is due for a Walloping.

The power up front is the only advantage Scotland will have IMO.

Lastly Lamont might be a 1 trick pony but NDL, when given space and time is without a doubt more than a 1 trick pony. Tim Visser owes a lot to the passing, movement and vison of NDL at 13.

Although our centres will get nothing more than Scraps from Parks so I expect NDL to take more flak from the rugby press about "not being good enough at test level".

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