RWC2011 quater final: Wales v Ireland

First topic message reminder :

let the speculation begin.

and a poll. feel free to change your mind as the week goes on.

this is going to be wales' biggest game for a long time, well since the samoa game. it is too close for comfort. either team can win.

my welsh xxii
geth, bennett, adam
awj,chartris
lydiate (fingers crossed he's fit if not ryan) warbs,faletau
phillips,jones
shane, roberts,williams,north
byrne
burnes, james, brad, ryan (but if he starts instead of lyds powell on bench), williams, hook (if fit, if not priestland), 1/2p

Griff wrote:

mrsuperclear wrote:

Griff wrote:Not sure I agree with the Heineken Cup/Pro 12 results and how this translates to the international stage. Clearly Ireland are streets ahead in the HC. The Ospreys are pretty successful in the ML, but generally the Irish teams have done better here too.

However, if you look at Super 15 rugby the last three winners have been Australian (2011), South Afrtican (2010) and South African (2009). However, most would still have called New Zealand the best international team over the past 3 years, wouldn't they? That's certainly what posters on here have been suggesting. Therefore, for me the club league results are not the be all and end all of predicting an international result.

Obviously it's not the be all and end all. I can't remember about 2010, but in 2009 SA won the Lions and 3N and in 2011 Australia won the 3N so perhaps super 15 does actually transform to international results? Added to that, since the last world cup our provinces have won 3 out of 4 Heineken cups, and in the year we didn't win one (2010), we had two provinces in the semi finals. That is four years of consistent and pretty successful knock out rugby that these players have in their system. It's not the be all and end all in deciding who's going to win next weekend, but it's a serious advantage that these players have experience of going into high intensity knock out rugby matches and coming out on top more than not.

Let's look it it another way. Ireland won the 6N in 2009 which was a year that one of your teams didn't win the HC. In none of the HC wining years did Ireland win the 6N. Wales won the 2005 and 2008 6N with Grand Slams, but our clubs/regions were nowhere near winning the HC, and haven't been since. There is no pattern here. You could almost argue that maybe the exertion and effort required to win the HC negatively affects international performance in Ireland, as the stats suggest?

I'm not discrediting Ireland as I think they're a great team, they're favourites for this game with Wales, I'm half Irish so they're my second team, etc. I just don't think that club success and international success are correlated as some of the Ireland stats shows.

Leinster won the HC in 2009.


Good argument

Griff wrote:

mrsuperclear wrote:

Griff wrote:Not sure I agree with the Heineken Cup/Pro 12 results and how this translates to the international stage. Clearly Ireland are streets ahead in the HC. The Ospreys are pretty successful in the ML, but generally the Irish teams have done better here too.

However, if you look at Super 15 rugby the last three winners have been Australian (2011), South Afrtican (2010) and South African (2009). However, most would still have called New Zealand the best international team over the past 3 years, wouldn't they? That's certainly what posters on here have been suggesting. Therefore, for me the club league results are not the be all and end all of predicting an international result.

Obviously it's not the be all and end all. I can't remember about 2010, but in 2009 SA won the Lions and 3N and in 2011 Australia won the 3N so perhaps super 15 does actually transform to international results? Added to that, since the last world cup our provinces have won 3 out of 4 Heineken cups, and in the year we didn't win one (2010), we had two provinces in the semi finals. That is four years of consistent and pretty successful knock out rugby that these players have in their system. It's not the be all and end all in deciding who's going to win next weekend, but it's a serious advantage that these players have experience of going into high intensity knock out rugby matches and coming out on top more than not.

Let's look it it another way. Ireland won the 6N in 2009 which was a year that one of your teams didn't win the HC. In none of the HC wining years did Ireland win the 6N. Wales won the 2005 and 2008 6N with Grand Slams, but our clubs/regions were nowhere near winning the HC, and haven't been since. There is no pattern here. You could almost argue that maybe the exertion and effort required to win the HC negatively affects international performance in Ireland, as the stats suggest?

I'm not discrediting Ireland as I think they're a great team, they're favourites for this game with Wales, I'm half Irish so they're my second team, etc. I just don't think that club success and international success are correlated as some of the Ireland stats shows.

To be honest, I kind of agree that you could argue it either way and it really depends on how it affects the players minds I suppose. Picking up on what you said though, in 2009 when we won the grand slam Leinster won the HC and Munster won it the year before in 2008 so you could argue it did have an affect. And by the way, when France won it in 2010 the same year Toulouse won the HC. So patterns do emerge really. But then Wales won a grand slam in 2008 and England won the 6N in 2011 so you could argue it either way (although Northampton did get to the final in 2011). Another argument I'd throw at you is that the six nations as a competition is inherently different to the Heineken cup. The world cup is much more similar in that you have a pool stage and then knock out rugby. The six nations is more akin to a league where everyone players each other.

We'll agree to disagree I suppose, but to me the stats do generally indicate that there is a pattern between winning the HC/SuperXV and international success, and the Irish teams experience of that might well be an important factor.

We can speculate about the mood in the camps all we like, but there is one selection which will tell us EXACTLY where Irish heads are at - ROG or Sexton.
I can tell you where my money is, and it's certainly not on Sexton!
I think Kidney will revert to type and try to close down the game as much as possible. I would be suprised if D'arcey touches the ball before the 50th minute, and Bowe won't see it unless it comes from a crossfield kick.

Whoever plays hooker for Ireland had better hope they are a dab hand at throwing to a shortened lineout, becasue SOB and Ferris will be in the midfield all day waiting to try and run over our midfield.

I also think it's the sort of game where you'll see BOD going for a drop goal.
Don't know why, just get that feeling that the Irish will value the ticking scoreboard above all else.

As for Wales, I think Hook will be on the bench. The forwards pick themselves - providing Lydiate is fit, otherwise it's Ryan - and the backline will be - Phillips, Priestland, Shane Williams, Scott Williams, Jamie Roberts, George North and I can't decid if he'll go Byrne or Halfpenny. Whichever is left out, won't be in the 22.

Bench backs - S Jones, Hook, L Williams.
Just can't see Gatland leavign a fit Hook out. JD2 may have to be sacrificed. In terms of selection, not actually sacrificed. Although if it helps appease the rugby Gods.........

Makes no sense to have Priestland, Hook & Jones in the 22. The latter will be surplus to requirements as he only covers one position, and has not impressed there for a long time.

caoimhincentre wrote:

Griff wrote:

mrsuperclear wrote:

Griff wrote:Not sure I agree with the Heineken Cup/Pro 12 results and how this translates to the international stage. Clearly Ireland are streets ahead in the HC. The Ospreys are pretty successful in the ML, but generally the Irish teams have done better here too.

However, if you look at Super 15 rugby the last three winners have been Australian (2011), South Afrtican (2010) and South African (2009). However, most would still have called New Zealand the best international team over the past 3 years, wouldn't they? That's certainly what posters on here have been suggesting. Therefore, for me the club league results are not the be all and end all of predicting an international result.

Obviously it's not the be all and end all. I can't remember about 2010, but in 2009 SA won the Lions and 3N and in 2011 Australia won the 3N so perhaps super 15 does actually transform to international results? Added to that, since the last world cup our provinces have won 3 out of 4 Heineken cups, and in the year we didn't win one (2010), we had two provinces in the semi finals. That is four years of consistent and pretty successful knock out rugby that these players have in their system. It's not the be all and end all in deciding who's going to win next weekend, but it's a serious advantage that these players have experience of going into high intensity knock out rugby matches and coming out on top more than not.

Let's look it it another way. Ireland won the 6N in 2009 which was a year that one of your teams didn't win the HC. In none of the HC wining years did Ireland win the 6N. Wales won the 2005 and 2008 6N with Grand Slams, but our clubs/regions were nowhere near winning the HC, and haven't been since. There is no pattern here. You could almost argue that maybe the exertion and effort required to win the HC negatively affects international performance in Ireland, as the stats suggest?

I'm not discrediting Ireland as I think they're a great team, they're favourites for this game with Wales, I'm half Irish so they're my second team, etc. I just don't think that club success and international success are correlated as some of the Ireland stats shows.

Leinster won the HC in 2009.


Good argument

Doh! I looked at wikipedia and saw 2009-10 was Toulouse, but took it as 2009. Should have realised that the final would have been in 2010 for them! Schoolboy error.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heineken_Cup

Seemed like a good argument at the time. I still think there's something in the stats. For all of the success of the Irish provinces in the HC there has only been 1 6N win, and for Wales 2 6N wins in the last 6 years has come on the back of zero performance in the HC. England won the rugby world cup with Toulouse as HC champs in 2003, etc., etc.

wales606 wrote:

mrsuperclear wrote:Without excusing those tries, two were against Russia with our second team, and one was against the US and was an intercept at the end.

I wouldn't say it'll be easy to stop Wales scoring, but keeping Australia tryless wasn't easy either, and we did it.

But that was more to do with stopping the Aus forwards, not their backs. Ireland will have a harder task vs Warburton et al.

Aussie backs got enough ball to test Irelands defense. The is probably the best Wales team for 20-30 years but I think it's probably the best ever Irish squad and I think they should sneak it.

mrsuperclear wrote:

Griff wrote:

mrsuperclear wrote:

Griff wrote:Not sure I agree with the Heineken Cup/Pro 12 results and how this translates to the international stage. Clearly Ireland are streets ahead in the HC. The Ospreys are pretty successful in the ML, but generally the Irish teams have done better here too.

However, if you look at Super 15 rugby the last three winners have been Australian (2011), South Afrtican (2010) and South African (2009). However, most would still have called New Zealand the best international team over the past 3 years, wouldn't they? That's certainly what posters on here have been suggesting. Therefore, for me the club league results are not the be all and end all of predicting an international result.

Obviously it's not the be all and end all. I can't remember about 2010, but in 2009 SA won the Lions and 3N and in 2011 Australia won the 3N so perhaps super 15 does actually transform to international results? Added to that, since the last world cup our provinces have won 3 out of 4 Heineken cups, and in the year we didn't win one (2010), we had two provinces in the semi finals. That is four years of consistent and pretty successful knock out rugby that these players have in their system. It's not the be all and end all in deciding who's going to win next weekend, but it's a serious advantage that these players have experience of going into high intensity knock out rugby matches and coming out on top more than not.

Let's look it it another way. Ireland won the 6N in 2009 which was a year that one of your teams didn't win the HC. In none of the HC wining years did Ireland win the 6N. Wales won the 2005 and 2008 6N with Grand Slams, but our clubs/regions were nowhere near winning the HC, and haven't been since. There is no pattern here. You could almost argue that maybe the exertion and effort required to win the HC negatively affects international performance in Ireland, as the stats suggest?

I'm not discrediting Ireland as I think they're a great team, they're favourites for this game with Wales, I'm half Irish so they're my second team, etc. I just don't think that club success and international success are correlated as some of the Ireland stats shows.

To be honest, I kind of agree that you could argue it either way and it really depends on how it affects the players minds I suppose. Picking up on what you said though, in 2009 when we won the grand slam Leinster won the HC and Munster won it the year before in 2008 so you could argue it did have an affect. And by the way, when France won it in 2010 the same year Toulouse won the HC. So patterns do emerge really. But then Wales won a grand slam in 2008 and England won the 6N in 2011 so you could argue it either way (although Northampton did get to the final in 2011). Another argument I'd throw at you is that the six nations as a competition is inherently different to the Heineken cup. The world cup is much more similar in that you have a pool stage and then knock out rugby. The six nations is more akin to a league where everyone players each other.

We'll agree to disagree I suppose, but to me the stats do generally indicate that there is a pattern between winning the HC/SuperXV and international success, and the Irish teams experience of that might well be an important factor.

Good point about the world cup being like the HC. Valid point I think. Wales players have very little knowckout rugby pedigree really. You do edge it there. I guess the way I see the worldcup now because of the draw is like the six nations (in that the teams in our half are Eng, France and Ireland) and, as we've been fairly competitive with these teams in recent time (i.e. wins against these teams with some or all of the current world cup players), I'm far more confident that we can compete and therefore get a result than if we were playing one of the 6N teams. I'm not usually an optimist when it comes to Wales!

Wales and Ireland are different.

The Welsh players simply don't perform with the same passion for the regions therefore national success does not necessarily correlate with regional success. That said the 2008 GS winning side was built a round very good Ospreys and Blues sides.

For Ireland the provinces mean as much to the players as the national side, therefore if the provinces are struggling it can mean trouble for the national side but when the provinces are going well, as they are now, that generally translates to a strong and confident Irish squad.

Which all goes to mean that there's nothing in it and the team with the most composure on the day will inevitably win. Both sides have a very good set of forwards and both posess the ability to cause real damage in the backs - I'm feeling good but then again so are all the Irish fans. Showtime is around the corner

if i was told that ireland would play wales in the QF before the world cup i would have said great, shouldnt be a problem.

However wales have come on leaps and bounds since the six nations.
the team ireland play next week are far stronger than the welsh team of 6 months ago.

should be a cracking game.

Part of me wants to see ROG start for Ireland at 10 then we can just send Faletau, Jenkins (remember 05), Roberts and North down his channel all day.

Then again if he does play I will be biting my nails if its a tight game and remember 09 when his drop goal beat us in the last minute or so.

Its gonna be a cracker and to close to call IMO.

Griff wrote: Let's look it it another way. Ireland won the 6N in 2009 which was a year that one of your teams didn't win the HC. In none of the HC wining years did Ireland win the 6N. Wales won the 2005 and 2008 6N with Grand Slams, but our clubs/regions were nowhere near winning the HC, and haven't been since. There is no pattern here.

...I just don't think that club success and international success are correlated as some of the Ireland stats shows.

Griff. I think your confusing the arguments. It's not that it's a mathematical certainty that somehow HC cup success = International success. Irish fans know that all too well.

But to try to argue that HC cup and strong club rugby has know effect on international rugby is frankly as close to wrong as an opinion can get. (Trying to be diplomatic ) You're just looking at it through a very narrow lense of one year of success here and one year of failure there. But it is more about the development of Irish rugby for close on a decade and a half.

I remember growing up and going to Leinster and Ireland games in the late 1980s and 1990s. Irish rugby was completely a mess and there was little or NO chance of them upsetting the tri-nations teams or of them stringing consistent results together. This changed dramatically and irrevocably with the development of the pro-domestic teams in the early 2000s. Those victories and developments led to the very slow and incremental development of the national team over the next 5 years.

Around 2003 we already felt like we had a top international team... but looking back now it's clear that it took many more years before the Irish developed a proper consistent winning mentality. That was almost completely derived from the successes achieved by Munster that dragged all the other Irish players along with them. Then in the last few years Leinster have added yet another - more dynamic and defensively complete - dimension to the Irish game that has yet again been integrated into the national team's game. Wales, by comparison, have been inconsistent and then brilliant, then inconsistent again. And this may well have been due to their club level organisation.

In any case for Ireland these national characteristics took years and years and years to develop and perfect. And the present Irish team is clearly the beneficiary of those earlier efforts. They did not occur in one year with the emergence of SOB and Johnny Sexton. So when the Irish team get on the pitch these days there is a confidence that comes from years of developing a successful gameplan that has been consciously implemented by the Irish RFU from the ground up.

Again it's not that Ireland will win just because they are stronger at club level. But it is one of the strengths that we will bring to the game... like SOB's carrying and ROG's boot... and that we will lean on when things are tight.

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

Griff wrote: Let's look it it another way. Ireland won the 6N in 2009 which was a year that one of your teams didn't win the HC. In none of the HC wining years did Ireland win the 6N. Wales won the 2005 and 2008 6N with Grand Slams, but our clubs/regions were nowhere near winning the HC, and haven't been since. There is no pattern here.

...I just don't think that club success and international success are correlated as some of the Ireland stats shows.

Griff. I think your confusing the arguments. It's not that it's a mathematical certainty that somehow HC cup success = International success. Irish fans know that all too well.

But to try to argue that HC cup and strong club rugby has know effect on international rugby is frankly as close to wrong as an opinion can get. (Trying to be diplomatic ) You're just looking at it through a very narrow lense of one year of success here and one year of failure there. But it is more about the development of Irish rugby for close on a decade and a half.

I remember growing up and going to Leinster and Ireland games in the late 1980s and 1990s. Irish rugby was completely a mess and there was little or NO chance of them upsetting the tri-nations teams or of them stringing consistent results together. This changed dramatically and irrevocably with the development of the pro-domestic teams in the early 2000s. Those victories and developments led to the very slow and incremental development of the national team over the next 5 years.

Around 2003 we already felt like we had a top international team... but looking back now it's clear that it took many more years before the Irish developed a proper consistent winning mentality. That was almost completely derived from the successes achieved by Munster that dragged all the other Irish players along with them. Then in the last few years Leinster have added yet another - more dynamic and defensively complete - dimension to the Irish game that has yet again been integrated into the national team's game. Wales, by comparison, have been inconsistent and then brilliant, then inconsistent again. And this may well have been due to their club level organisation.

In any case for Ireland these national characteristics took years and years and years to develop and perfect. And the present Irish team is clearly the beneficiary of those earlier efforts. They did not occur in one year with the emergence of SOB and Johnny Sexton. So when the Irish team get on the pitch these days there is a confidence that comes from years of developing a successful gameplan that has been consciously implemented by the Irish RFU from the ground up.

Again it's not that Ireland will win just because they are stronger at club level. But it is one of the strengths that we will bring to the game... like SOB's carrying and ROG's boot... and that we will lean on when things are tight.

All very good points. All I'm responding to is the Irish view that Wales will lose game this because we are weaker at club level. I think that, depsite not having much HC pedigree compared to you, we can still win this game. We've beaten you in the recent past even though our club sides have been poorer than yours in those years. That's all I'm saying. Maybe it's only relevant from a Welsh point of view, that club/regional performance does not really relate to international performance, and for that reason using our club/regional level as a gauge of Saturday's chances is not ideal?

Whilst winning the HC is obviously good for confidence etc and a lot of the Irish boys play as Units for Leinster and Munster but that trend has been bucked when Wales won the Slam in 05 & 08 as we have been dire in the HC.

samuraidragon wrote:Makes no sense to have Priestland, Hook & Jones in the 22. The latter will be surplus to requirements as he only covers one position, and has not impressed there for a long time.

No it doesn't, I am purely speculating on what Warren Gatalnd will do. I find it very hard to see him going into this game without Stephen Jones, I also find it very hard to imagine him leaving Hook out.

Their experience of winning those tight, high-level European games is obviously going to benefit those Irish players, it's part of why Ireland are favourites, in my view.

i still havent voted. i still cant decide if either team has any sort of advantage. hec, pro12 and recent international results can be disregarded i think. this is a one off game and both teams are fit, well-drilled and ready for the challenge.

whoever wins will have the others support when it comes to england in the semi (i think england will play better than france-france are weired)

as others have said, who ever wins saturdays match will be in the final.

some posters seem disapointed there isnt any wumming or baiting on this thread. i am pleased for it. wales and ireland are cousins. we want to do better than our cousin but we dont begrudge them their success.

I watched Scrum V last night and Jiffy said that with the exception of the NZ Arg game the other 3 are just to close to call with all sides capable of winning.

I agree that if its a dog fight with Ireland then they have the edge so hopefully we can get a score or two ahead going into last quarter.

poll update

60:40 in favour of ireland.

i expected ireland to score higher in this poll because the welsh will be too nervous to vote for wales. i know i am.

TBH i think this one is a coin toss

But i am slightly confident we can win, i think the wales team is about a year short, i think they are young talented and playing the right type of rugby i just think they havent learnt some harsh lessons yet as a team.

i will be backing them for the 6 nations though as i think by then they will be flying. i think they look like more a team then in past years including the slams. They have ten years at least of having a captain who at the moment i cant find fault in and must have a future lions captaincy in him.

But ireland have been through all that and have two lions captains playing and i think/hope that we will have enough

if our pack play like they did v aus and italy i think we will scrape home.

Wales are a good team in good form but in a tight game i think we may just have and experience to get through.

Cant wait. Week will drag big time

I got two rugby magazines yesterday - Rugby World and The Rugby Paper's world cup editions. Both were produced before the tournament started, and both predicted that Wales will finish as losing quarter finalists.

I have to say, the prospect of an Ireland-England semi final is mouth watering...justice for Wally?

Ireland obviously are a good side and a side that deserves respect but I think Wales are being underestimated by a few posters.
We were arguably in the toughest group of them all. South Africa Samoa and Fiji have a reputation for being very physical sides but Wales managed to get to the quarters with all our squad being available for selection against Ireland.That to me means we either had a huge amount of luck or were physical and mentally prepared for the challenge. I believe it's the later.
There has also been a lot of talk about league results and HC performances being important in the outcome of this match but to me thats just clutching at straws.Ospreys are currently leading the Pro12 so should that make Wales favourites ? No of course not.
Past results may have a bearing if a side is lacking confidence but I don't think it will worry this young Welsh confident side.
The side that wins Saturday is the side on the day that wins the physical and mental battle. Past results will be irrelevant.

Cymro - just soak it up and let them underestimate this young, naive and exuberant welsh side who after all are only there to learn for the future - The boys are on fire and don't worry Ireland know that very very well. If a crap Wales can beat Ireland like last time out then they will know only too well where it matters what this side can do. It will be ferocious but if you look into the eyes of North, JD and Warburton they just can't wait for it to come round - We don't need to hear it from anyone

Cymro,

I am quite happy for us to go in as underestimated/underdogs call it what you like etc as we never cope well with the favourites tag.

HC performances are completely irrelevant. Ireland will win this match cause they have a stronger pack and two fly halfs (depending who plays) that will control the tempo of the game.

Experience is also a factor and Ireland win this battle in spades.

Wouldnt be all surprised to see Wales win and nobody is writing them off but if you look at the game logically Ireland will win.

BlueMuff wrote:if you look at the game logically Ireland will win.

FACT!

No one is underestimating Wales. They had two tough challenges in the group,they played great against South Africa and should have won. They beat Samoa by a few and were comfortable enough. Besides that they weren't challenged. Fiji were on the plane home already. It will be a very good, tight game.

I hope it's raining out of the heavens for this one, can see us dominating if it is.

Would prefer the game not to get loose and when it does I'd like us to be the one dictating when and where.

Choke tackles on the cards again!

If you looked at the Australia Ireland game logically then Australia would win

RubyGuby wrote:If you looked at the Australia Ireland game logically then Australia would win

i like that one... got me stumped!

(Ireland by 1 in that case)

Nos Na - Seeing the Irish Rugby Team and the word Logic in the same sentence is enough to make me - They can scrape past Italy with an injury time drop goal and then murder the Grand Slam Champions of 2011 in waiting - Logic and the Irish rugby team have very very little in common. Good luck next wekend fella and may the best team win

RubyGuby wrote:Nos Na - Seeing the Irish Rugby Team and the word Logic in the same sentence is enough to make me - They can scrape past Italy with an injury time drop goal and then murder the Grand Slam Champions of 2011 in waiting - Logic and the Irish rugby team have very very little in common. Good luck next wekend fella and may the best team win

HC wins IRE 5 WAL 0

Head to heads 2000-2010 IRE 10 WAL 3

World Cup Semi Finals IRE 0 WAL 1

Matches won so far IRE 4 WAL 3

Tries Scored so far IRE 15 WAL 23

Tries conceded IRE -3 WAL -4

--------------------------------------------------------------
Final Score IRE 31 WAL 26


Give it up Ruby... You can't fight with science!

Three reasons why I think Ireland will win.

1.

Spoiler:

2.

Spoiler:

3.

Spoiler:

Don't tell me another nation has jumped onto the swallow diving wagon now just because Keith Earls did one *This is where the facepalm icon would be if we still had it*

Anyway, remember the old saying: "All that goes up must come down".

Feckless, I loved them!

For all my worries about ROG and what he did to us in 2003 and 2009, I still have the happy memories of 2005 and Geth's fabulous charge down and subsequent try to cancel them out. It's going to be really interesting who does get the Ireland 10 shirt.

Wales v Fiji...

9 Tries 9 Conversions 0 Penalties or drop goals missed is that a record in this tournament ?.
Thats a hell of a achievement when you also consider what the weather was like.

Edit South Africa hold the record.

we got 10/10 kicks in that match Cymro, twas lovely to see. Still can't understand why Rhys Priestland was asked on S4C if there was a problem with the ball?!

I laughed when they asked that and Rhys had a little smile

They only asked him that because we didn't kick 11 from 10

Realistically the Wales fans wanted a best case scenario of competing with South Africa, and laying to rests the ghosts of Fiji and Samoa, these objectives have been accomplished. Before going down to valiant defeat to Australia. In the quarters, that was our best case scenario before the kick off.

You'd have to pick Ireland as favorites for the Wales game, simply because not only did they compete with their Tri Nation team, they also handed them, their back sides!

Welsh fans believe Ireland is a 50/50 game, but Ireland fans are more used to seeing their sides beat Welsh ones so are understandably confident for the game.

If Wales can get parity up front, and win some line outs and move it wide on a warm day, they could potentially cut Ireland to pieces, do Ireland really want George north and Jamie Roberts running at O'Gara and Bod's dodgy shoulder?
Wales can do serious damage very quickly, they scored 2 tries in a minute and a half in Twickenham a while ago, they scored 2 tries against Argentina pre world Cup, they can spend 60 minutes tackling then suddenly explode, that is the danger.

Then again if it is wet and slippery, can Wales really beat Ireland in a battle of attrition, with tight defenses and points coming from drop goals and penalties?
If Ireland choke Wales out of the game, and hog all of the possession with Rog keeping the score board ticking over, then Wales will really struggle.

Early points and the weather could well play a big part.

80 min gone game well won and they still wanted to continue playing that would have been unheard of a short while back.

Alyn it was wet and slippery against Fiji but our handling was superb.

Dreamer. You are forgetting 07 and a couple of other occasions over the last ten years all usually orchestrated by rog.

Jeez lads its one thing playing a wide expansive game against fiji and namibia but i think you are getting your teams mixed up, they werent the games where the opponents wore green or blue .

am looking forward to any welsh player meeting sob.

They've already met him I believe and experienced beating him unlike anyone in Ireland's group.

You can only beat what's in front of you and we were drawn in an overall tougher group than Ireland were. The only real difference is Ireland managed to overcome their 3N counterpart while Wales fell just short. We've learned from it and will make up for it, I promise you

And how many Irish Grand Slams is that in the past 70 years Maybe its a lack of staying power when it matters

Grand Slams dont count.Only HC success when Johnny Foreigner helps them out.Typical Irish to be bogged down with history.The present is RED as you will discover on Saturday.

Wales looked good on Sunday. Fiji weren't interested but they still looked preety good. In their two main matches in the group they didn't have major success with the ball out wide. Given the fact that our defence has been our strongest part of the team in this world cup,I would be confident the Welsh won't run us ragged. They might score a try or two but they are not going to completely manhandle us out wide.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Grand Slams dont count.Only HC success when Johnny Foreigner helps them out.Typical Irish to be bogged down with history.The present is RED as you will discover on Saturday.

Actually his name is Jonny Sexton

Brynmor had a great stat on Scrum V with that our tackle completion % was up in the 80's and I think Ireland's was only 67%. That's a great stat for us to see with runners like North and Roberts in the team.

Apart from Australia really your defence hasn't been tested all that much out wide. It's something for Wales to look at anyway.

Yes RD I was also very impressed with that stat also remembering we had been playing against very physical sides.