Martinez v Barker write up

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Never been a fan of Martinez and he was there for the taking....Barker didn't believe enough to commit himself more against Mr Potshot....

Right tactics......wrong workrate..showed too much respect....

Good effort and he can comeback....but needed to take advantage of his early success....

Had him ahead after 6......

I was wrong ....but right about Martinez he just isn't all that..

Think father time might be catching up with Martinez. He didn't look all that great. Maybe he took the fight lightly, but looked beatable. Just don't know if there is a middleweight out there who can.

Trussman, although Barker didn't win, it was a good call on your behalf. I don't think anyone envisaged it would be that close. You following your nation in the World Championships? Not doing too bad.

Agree with you both really, i was surprised how average Martinez looked, perhaps he was just off his game, but he really looked a little clueless at how to break down Barker early on. Or perhaps MArtinez has peaked, too soon to say, he is 36 tho after all. MArtinez needs to be fighting every 3/4 months now, he has a year to eighteen months to make his retirement money so be interesting to see who he gets. Best case for me is MArgarito beats Cotto and MArtinez gets rematch but personally i want Cotto to flatten the cheato so will see

To be fair fighting a no name when all the other massive fights financially and otherwise are out there perhaps sidetracked him from the original name in front of him.

Wasn't sidetracked just didn't like a guy he couldn't catch clean..Barker needed to be more positive..when he was.. he caught him and stole some rounds early..

seemed to lose heart.......

i think Barker felt vunerable to counters when he opened up, couldn't outgun Martinez and therefore didnt want to open up and leave his chin out there

Nah not for me. Feel for Barker gave it everything he had. Felt like Martinez wasn't 100% there coming in. When you've been through so much it's sometimes hard to gear yourself up mentally. I've been there. I know the feeling.

I've been there know the feeling......

okay..

Not in boxing, in other things you muppet.

Barkers tactics were spot on but as been mentioned his workrate didn't quite there. I thought the first 6 rounds were close but then Barker's workrate did drop. I can't help but think if he was a bit more seasoned and had fought more 12 rounders going into this he could have done the unthinkable. 4 fights in 3 years isn't great going into this!!

But at the same time not many expected him to do as well as he did so all credit to him for making the fight as competitive as it was and was gutted when he got dropped but you could tell it was on the cards!!

Spot on volcanish......also think he stopped believing..probably shocked at how well he was doing...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Never been a fan of Martinez and he was there for the taking....Barker didn't believe enough to commit himself more against Mr Potshot....

Right tactics......wrong workrate..showed too much respect....

Good effort and he can comeback....but needed to take advantage of his early success....

Had him ahead after 6......

I was wrong ....but right about Martinez he just isn't all that..

Martinez is the real deal....

Don't know why you hate on him so much....

...

....

......

I can't type more than 10 words without going.......

Can i do a paragraph....

No......

Martinez won and didn't look great, every great fighter has his off days. Fact is his recent record speaks for itself, he has no natural (who'd fight him i.e. Cotto/Marg) rivals at the weight/nearing the weight and it seems to me (and from what has been said) he'd come to 150 to make a superfight between you know who and you know who.

Anyway....

I'm all tired after typing that paragraph......

Coxy how come Martinez is afforded an off night yet if Mayweather or Pacquiao are below par they get slated?

Surely if he wants to be considered amongst the elite he should get treated like it.

Think Coxy needs to wind his neck is a bit...

This is a forum... A place for....... Opinions.

Martinez is a good boxer, but he certainly is overrated. He has no real stand out wins and although he is clearly the man at his weight it is more to do with the fact his opposition is do Poopie.

Good fighter but nothing to justify the praise he gets over the likes of Gamboa, donaire etc...

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Think Coxy needs to wind his neck is a bit...

Don't underestimate the damage all those punches were doing. I know Barker was blocking a lot but they were proper, thumping punches and they took their toll. I don't for a moment think Barker lost it mentally, Martinez just wore him down and as we all expected he was just too good for him.

Barker can win a world title, he can come back from this, but Martinez is a class above.

Coxy how come Martinez is afforded an off night yet if Mayweather or Pacquiao are below par they get slated?

I said "didn't look great", but he still looked pretty good. It wasn't like he was made to look a bit flawed or anything, most of us this side of the pond said he may have troubles with a guy who's being short-sold on technical ability.

I had him winning comfortably, the fact he got the knockout redeems a slightly lacklustre display. This wasn't a certain fighter against Clottey who missed with most of his punches, Martinez found a way to get his man out of there - that in itself deserves praise.

Think Coxy needs to wind his neck is a bit...

This is a forum... A place for....... Opinions.

Martinez is a good boxer, but he certainly is overrated. He has no real stand out wins

Isn't it time for your monthly ban?!

"Certainly overrated"??? "No real standout wins"??????

What planet are you on?

Went hell for leather with boxings most avoided fighter and arguably beat him first time round (i still maintain that scoring the fight was near impossible) and then knocked him spark cold in the return match. This was a guy who was rated what - Top 5 P4P and had been on the list for some considerable time?!!?

You don't consider that a standout win? Fighting a guy who absolutely no-one wanted any part of (and that would read the who's who of the 147154 division of the last 5 years, i'm sure you're smart enough to think of the names i'm on about.... if you need a hand lemme know) and putting him down and out isn't a standout win?

coxy0001 wrote:

Coxy how come Martinez is afforded an off night yet if Mayweather or Pacquiao are below par they get slated?

I said "didn't look great", but he still looked pretty good. It wasn't like he was made to look a bit flawed or anything, most of us this side of the pond said he may have troubles with a guy who's being short-sold on technical ability.

I had him winning comfortably, the fact he got the knockout redeems a slightly lacklustre display. This wasn't a certain fighter against Clottey who missed with most of his punches, Martinez found a way to get his man out of there - that in itself deserves praise.

While I agree with what you are saying in principal Coxy, you let yourself down a bit with this line. Martinez against Barker was almost identical to Manny vs Clottey (except Barker actually threw back). If you say Manny missed punches, then so did Martinez. If I remember rightly, and I do, Manny pounded Clottey's gloves for 12 rounds, exactly the same as what Martinez did to Barker.

But coxy likes Martinez and not Pacquiao Fists, be fair.

Williams is one of the most wasteful punchers in boxing today. Outboxed by Quintana and Lara... Yep, he's real class. He's another will a big hype train with zero to back it up.

Re the ban, people in glass houses and all that.

True, silly me expecting him to be objective, regardless of who he prefers.

i like barker, strikes me as a decent honest guy when i've seen him on the box.. he reckons he was rocked once in the earlier rounds and that was it before the ko.

Unlike many boxers, i'm inclined to believe him...never looked in trouble to me until the tenth.. he just gassed and got easier to hit. Hard to see how hurt he actually was in the 11th despite the barrage coming at him, but i'm inclined to think the ko was still a freak rabbit punch. Given how his legs suddenly disobeyed him.

To be fair, I agree, it's hard to look good when your opponent is just covering up.

Seems like Froch>Pacquiao and Martinez.

Agree with coxy for once...Martinez is the real deal and looked good to me as well overcoming a decent fighter who stylewise was a problem for him.

Martinez is a ambush fighter like Haye.

The genius of PBF wrote:Agree with coxy for once...Martinez is the real deal and looked good to me as well overcoming a decent fighter who stylewise was a problem for him.

Martinez is a ambush fighter like Haye.

I'm going to make a word document and save the above.

And Fists.........

I'm not sure what fight you were watching to be honest. Martinez although not getting through with every punch (like we've come to expect) still landed his fair share, a quick check backs that statement up is that Martinez landed 42% of his power punches. (more than Manny did, but i'd rather this topic not descend into that farce, i was only making an off the cuff comparison).

We all know punch stats aren't the be all end all gospel truth, but i saw a half decent fight with Martinez doing some very good, if not great, work.

Cotto next anyone? Providing he gets past Marg. Saying that old Arum won't let JCCJr or anyone in his stable near him.

coxy0001 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:Agree with coxy for once...Martinez is the real deal and looked good to me as well overcoming a decent fighter who stylewise was a problem for him.

Martinez is a ambush fighter like Haye.

I'm going to make a word document and save the above.

And Fists.........

I'm not sure what fight you were watching to be honest. Martinez although not getting through with every punch (like we've come to expect) still landed his fair share, a quick check backs that statement up is that Martinez landed 42% of his power punches. (more than Manny did, but i'd rather this topic not descend into that farce, i was only making an off the cuff comparison).

We all know punch stats aren't the be all end all gospel truth, but i saw a half decent fight with Martinez doing some very good, if not great, work.

Cotto next anyone? Providing he gets past Marg. Saying that old Arum won't let JCCJr or anyone in his stable near him.

Doubt Cotto would want any part of Martinez...already making excuses for ducking him again.

http://www.boxingscene.com/cotto-martinez-t-get-me-5-million-like-margarito--44104

Not a chance in hell he landed 42% of power punches. On gloves maybe.

Scottrf wrote:Not a chance in hell he landed 42% of power punches. On gloves maybe.

Scott, again the fight i witnessed saw him gradually break Barker down. From round 7/8 he seemed to be getting through more and more. Wasn't throwing more than 50 punches a round (power) but by that point was making most of them count (and by most i reckon 45%+)

Nope, not a chance. 42% is elite level, he was visibly hitting gloves consistently. He may have been close in the last 2 rounds, but not to make up for something like 20% in the first few. Not interested in what compubox says, from watching it, it's laughable to say he was landing near Mayweather percentages.

Did they really "land" though. If. He connected with every other power shot he threw it would be a totally different fight.

Scott

Having done some googling here's the official compubox stats

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=martinez-barker-compubox

Again, not saying it was gospel but they do backup how i saw the fight i.e. Martinez slowly breaking Barker down until he finally found the knockout punch. Which as a side point looked pretty innocuous until i saw it again, cuffed him right on the temple

Not quite in the same mould as the PWill knockout though, but still give him kudos for getting a guy out of there who didn't really come to fight.

Fair enough, I'd have to disagree. It's noticeable when someone with a decent punch lands 42% of power shots. Especially when Barker was staggered with a couple of fairly weak looking punches, if he was connecting cleanly with a decent percentage he would have been gone early.

Scottrf wrote:Nope, not a chance. 42% is elite level, he was visibly hitting gloves consistently. He may have been close in the last 2 rounds, but not to make up for something like 20% in the first few. Not interested in what compubox says, from watching it, it's laughable to say he was landing near Mayweather percentages.

Maybe your confusing power punches with jabs...Only 30% landed all together

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Never been a fan of Martinez and he was there for the taking....Barker didn't believe enough to commit himself more against Mr Potshot....

Right tactics......wrong workrate..showed too much respect....

Good effort and he can comeback....but needed to take advantage of his early success....

Had him ahead after 6......

I was wrong ....but right about Martinez he just isn't all that..

I have to begrudgingly agree. After 6 rounds I had Barker up, but with his work rate not being too high, I thought he's got enough in the tank now to push on and have a chance , but then he seemed to have died over the next rounds.

I think someone like Pirog beats him based on that performance but don't see Macklin beating him. I think Macklin is made for Sergio.

Could have just been an off night, we'll all have to wait and see.

If you seriously saw 42% of power punches landing then I suggest you re-watch the fight. Not a chance that volume of shots landed.

Its like D4 with the Pacqioua misses because he is more accurate argument.

After 6 rounds I had Barker up

How? Landed noticeably less and was throwing less... Had him always behind save for 3 or so i gave him

Lumbering_Jack wrote:If you seriously saw 42% of power punches landing then I suggest you re-watch the fight. Not a chance that volume of shots landed.

Its like D4 with the Pacqioua misses because he is more accurate argument.

I saw 41% actually

I did see him miss with jabs and struggled to an extent to find a way through. But as my above post said i did see him start to break him down around the 7th or so when he was landing with alot more than he was in the first few.

General consensus was Barker got broken down with his high guard and then taken out. The stats, as i've said above so please stop twisting my words to suit your arguement, although not gospel back up my arguement and the general consensus. Martinez didn't exactly find one magic punch having missed with every punch for the entire fight, did he?

General consensus is that those stats are nonsense and that Martinez always looked like winning, but didn't impress in doing so.

Had the fight even after 6. Might just be an off night but I am really not sold on Martinez.

There are lies, damned lies and statistics - Benjamin Disraeli

Who would you want to see him fight to be sold on him? He's already disposed of a top 5 P4P (twice in a fair few peoples eyes) fighter who nobody wanted to fight..

I refuse to accept Williams as a top 5 fighter, not a chance.

Its a tough one because he has no real quality around his weight. The point I am making is that he has done nothing to justify his lofty position in the p4p rankings... I mean above Donaire, really?

needs to dominate fighters like Barker before most will consider him truly elite.

Martinez is arguably ranked number three p4p in the world yet they couldn't shift 5,000 tickets for Saturday's fight. I doubt the ppv figures will be earth-shattering either. You can argue that Barker was an unknown quantity but the truth is that the top guys will shift units whoever they face.

Cotto's argument that fighting Martinez won't get him $5 mil is a bit of a cop out when it's arguable that despite his lower world ranking, Cotto would be the main attraction in that fight.

If Manny faces Martinez then they sell out the new Cowboys stadium with ease, same with Mayweather facing Martinez. Truth is that whilst Martinez doesn't shift tickets, the guys he wants to face WILL, so there should be no argument about the lack of money available. The only thing lacking will be the cojones to face him.

As for Barker, I think he aquitted himself well and showed that he does deserve to be amongst the top tier guys. I just hope he gets another chance sooner rather than later. Maybe a shot against Sturm if Murray fails and Macklin doesn't want the rematch.

Was anyone else annoyed at slagging of Martinez by Woodhall and Oliver?

"Martinez did only got a draw against Cintron.."
- Yer after knocking him out in the 6th only to be overturned. Getting a point deducted in the 12th and the decision was still a majority draw!

"Martinez did get beat be by Williams also.."
- Think the odd were unfairly stacked against him after the shamful 119-110 score one of the judges posted. I had him winning 115-113.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Was anyone else annoyed at slagging of Martinez but Woodhall and Oliver?

"Martinez did only got a draw against Cintron.."
- Yer after knocking him out in the 6th only to be overturned. Getting a point deducted in the 12th and the decision was still a majority draw!

"Martinez did get beat be by Williams also.."
- Think the odd were unfairly stacked against him after the shamful 119-110 score one of the judges posted. I had him winning 115-113.

I'm not sure anyone on Sky had seen Martinez before.

"He should stop disrespecting Barker with his hands down." No, that's how he fights. Was embarrassing. Macklin was the only one who seemed to know what he was talking about.

coxy0001 wrote:

After 6 rounds I had Barker up

How? Landed noticeably less and was throwing less... Had him always behind save for 3 or so i gave him

By landing effective eye catching clean blows which did visable damage, rather then shots which seem to hitting his Barkers guard. I had it 58 -57

Take it Martinez is a touchy subject haha.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

After 6 rounds I had Barker up

How? Landed noticeably less and was throwing less... Had him always behind save for 3 or so i gave him

By landing effective eye catching clean blows which did visable damage, rather then shots which seem to hitting his Barkers guard. I had it 58 -57

Take it Martinez is a touchy subject haha.

Not especially, and you're more than welcome to your opinion but Martinez was always in control of the fight. I haven't read or heard from anyone with sense that Barker was at any point threatening an upset, most people seem to be complaining Barker didn't come to fight. Find it a bit bizarre you had him winning when 98% of people saw it differently. But again, you're free to voice your opinion and be in that 2% i guess.

... clearly compubox consider hitting the gloves to have landed.

It's true that its hard to break down a guy defending with earmuffs...well not that hard if you're prepared to work the body rather than glory pot shot all night. To be fair you could see it as barker presenting a problem and martinez taking a while to work it out, but doing so eventually. Personally, i saw it more as him never really working it out, and barker just gassed like he has in every other fight. But that's just opinions.

I had it level after 6 with martinez pulling away thereafter as barker stopped throwing punches.

Martinez, very good fighter, but not the demi god, some would have us believe imo. I'd say close inspection of his record, suggests a bad early set back, followed by years of fighting nobodies and some good wins late in his career.

Really though pavlik and williams are the standout wins... and you can argue both had already been found out to some degree. I'd agree he was unlucky with the decision against cintron, but thought williams 1 was close but fair enough. Wins against barker and dzinziruk whose records both read better on paper than really reflective of their abilities are the least you'd expect.

You can pick anyone's record apart, i'm only doing this for perspective, he's proved himself the best at the weight, he's a quality fighter, but he's not the second coming. p4p 3 not reflective imo.

Was a little disappointed that Martinez didn't try to the body more often because when he did, he had success.