The Anti-climax of Defeat - England RWC Exit discussion thread

[sirtidychris]

First topic message reminder :


Edit - KRD. All, I've merged several of the English exit threads into one


Martin johnson today made some very odd team selection decisions, Which for me almost singlehandley resulted in our loss to france. Here are the main ones that really a better international coach would have done differently.

1)Johny Wilkinson...An englsh hero but he has been very poor in this world cup, he stands too deep and is too predictable these days for top defenses, his strengths were always his goal kicking which were terrible this campaign, he had to be on the bench. why did he start when toby flood is much more threatening to defenses, has been in better form in hand and boot and has a great KRDunderstanding with youngs.

2) Matt stevens got smashed against the scots, anyone with half a brain cell knew that alex corbisiero is a much better specialist loosehead that had to start against one of the most destructive tightheads in the world, bizarely johnson started stevens again and he cost us 6 points and the scrum was going backwards until corbs made an entrance.

3)Louis Deacon a solid aviva premiership lock, but invisible on the international pitch, he is meant to be a good scrummager but when you select decent props you don't need to select a lock solely on his ability to push !. Simon Shaw was having an immense tournament he was everywhere when he played. Courtney Lawes also offers so much more, why these two players were behind plodding deacon i'll never know.

4) Lewis Moody and Nick Easter. These i think were the toughest calls, moody is the captain and easter the only real English number with experience. In fairness today easter was solid at the back of the scrums and moody was moody. However, easter was too slow to the breakdowns as predicted and too slow going forward...all he offered was slow crash ball and solidity at a scrum going in reverse, however the french back three were everywhere, haskell has been one of our best players all tournament, he runs all day and gets to the breakdowns and also plays in France he would have been the ideal player for this game. Moody is not the player he once was and i feel Tom wood offers so much more these days, if moody started then at least wood should have been on the bench.

5) The english midfield is a 1000 word article on its own ! but wilkinson and flood was never going to work and busting it out in a world cup 1/4 final resulted in a backline that was completely clueless in attack and defense. Hape for all his detractors knows how to play in the 12 shirt for england and would have formed a soild defensive line and great crash ball...... remember Youngs, Flood, Hape, Ashton Cueto Foden all have played together regularly as a back line including the wins over France in this years six nations and the thrashing of Australia.

Johnsons selections lost us this game, he is too faithfull to the players he used to pay with and underperforming players (remember how long it took him to ditch Borthwick !) when he brought on the subs the game changed straight away but it was too late.

[Gwlad]

Touching how this thread attracts so much concern from Welsh scribblers. Come and join us after your QF.

Enjoy watching it on your big screen

[Gwlad]

Dwarves to horses, i suppose thats progress.

But this is the key issue. Unless England recognizes this disease within its set up they will never break out of it

It went wrong long before the warm ups

1. Inconsistent selection
2. Obsession with culture not results and yet total mismanagement of their two great players, Hartley and Manu.
3. Failure to convert under pressure; just how many 6 Nations titles in the last 4 years could England have had
4. Can a coach have their son in the squad?
5. the midfield
6. New broom philosophy
7. The selection rules ref Armitage and Abendanon
8. Still not knowing what style of rugby they want to pursue.

What England needs is a big name coach proven at the top level. What they have picked, unbelievably when you look at it, is a former star on the pitch and then a schoolmaster. That is where the new

I agree with everything you say BAR this one which I'm utterly fed up with hearing.

There is no way on earth I would swap Abendanon for Brown. And if need be Watson or Nowell should replace Brown.

As for Armitage...well I'm not disputing his ability...but I honestly think we have kids who can fill that 7 spot if its decided that's what we need. So I would hold iff the rush to bring him in.

SO…..hold of the 'rush' to bring in a proven 7 (because thats where the skipper plays duh) and put a rush on Burgess(ok we know the Head Coach didn't want him but bowed under the group vote pressure, can just see Steve Hansen doing that!)

Bring in a novice 6 because of his aura, who used to play league, admits he can't play 6 and play him at 12 in a crunch RWC game after 10 months Union.

Aaah, now i see the Lancastrian Logic.

[gregortree]

Touching how this thread attracts so much concern from Welsh scribblers. Come and join us after your QF.

Enjoy watching it on your big screen

Must be frustrating that your favourite juju doll is out so soon. Still you can always keep sticking pins in the corpse, even though that is not quite so satisfying. You'll keep doing it even after Wales are out. My cats play with long dead mice, an unpleasant behaviour trait but they can't help themselves.

[Gwlad]

Touching how this thread attracts so much concern from Welsh scribblers. Come and join us after your QF.

Enjoy watching it on your big screen

Must be frustrating that your favourite juju doll is out so soon. Still you can always keep sticking pins in the corpse, even though that is not quite so satisfying. You'll keep doing it even after Wales are out. My cats play with long dead mice, an unpleasant behaviour trait but they can't help themselves.

Not having a team in your own RWC I guess you don't really have anywhere else to go but to suggest that do you.

The single most unpleasant behavior trait is not learning from your mistakes as this 4 year old RWC 2011 England management issues thread quite clearly demonstrates.

[fa0019]

Touching how this thread attracts so much concern from Welsh scribblers. Come and join us after your QF.

Enjoy watching it on your big screen

Must be frustrating that your favourite juju doll is out so soon. Still you can always keep sticking pins in the corpse, even though that is not quite so satisfying. You'll keep doing it even after Wales are out. My cats play with long dead mice, an unpleasant behaviour trait but they can't help themselves.

Not having a team in your own RWC I guess you don't really have anywhere else to go but to suggest that do you.

The single most unpleasant behavior trait is not learning from your mistakes as this 4 year old RWC 2011 England management issues thread quite clearly demonstrates.

Is this a similar trait Warren has everytime he plays Australia?

[LondonTiger]

People very rarely learn from other people's mistakes.

[majesticimperialman]

Just read on the bbc thread that Rob Andrew in rugby director of England.
But England so not have a director of Rugby.

I thought they was the same thing. but apparently they are not the same.

So who should take over as director of Rugby?

Do England need a director of Rugby? and what difference would it be too what Rob Andrew is doing right now?

Could some one please explain to me the difference here.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Squeaky, I believe has development as his main job. He does not have a day to day say ion the running of the international side. having said that he was part of the management team that put SL in charge, nor sure about the extension of his contract.

Although I have reservations about him, you cannot deny that he has been superb in bringing on young talent via the academies. Most of the current squad and those challenging have come through under his reign.

Teflon he may be, but he does have some talents, probably a bit like me, a better organiser and strategist than a hands on doer, at least I know it and work accordingly. I am not sure he knows his limitations.

[LondonTiger]

Through a slightly strange quirk of fate, Squeaky is my baby brother's god father.

The tales that could be told

[gregortree]

You're always welcome on our thread Gwald if you miss England so much.

[yappysnap]

Through a slightly strange quirk of fate, Squeaky is my baby brother's god father.

The tales that could be told

When are you writing your biography LT????

[Gwlad]

Touching how this thread attracts so much concern from Welsh scribblers. Come and join us after your QF.

Enjoy watching it on your big screen

Must be frustrating that your favourite juju doll is out so soon. Still you can always keep sticking pins in the corpse, even though that is not quite so satisfying. You'll keep doing it even after Wales are out. My cats play with long dead mice, an unpleasant behaviour trait but they can't help themselves.

Not having a team in your own RWC I guess you don't really have anywhere else to go but to suggest that do you.

The single most unpleasant behavior trait is not learning from your mistakes as this 4 year old RWC 2011 England management issues thread quite clearly demonstrates.

Is this a similar trait Warren has everytime he plays Australia?

This is a thread about England and i'd say you have bigger things to worry about!

But, nice to see some fight from an Englishman. Shame the team had none.

[SimonofSurrey]

Whatkind of a sad individual fishes through four year old threads about other countries, anyway? Sheesh. Yes, it was a pity a moderate England under performed generally and lost to those two countries in our pool ranked above us, but at least we didn't lose at home, for example, to a team representing a part of Pacific island.

Good luck to all eight quarter finalists. At different times, they've all lit up this tournament in a way that few of those now out did: honourable mentions however to Japan & Romania, as well as those heavily defeated developing nations who never gave up, even when several scores adrift.

[Hood83]

Perfect thread, even if it comes from a rather pathetic place. If there is one thing good for me from this horrible England performance its that I get to say...told you so...sorry, bad form.

Total BS PR talk about culture means zip compared to a track record...of any kind. I cannot quite believe that anyone is still saying Lancaster has us in a better position than post 2011. What's incredible is that Lancaster made almost identical mistakes in some areas, with a squad I'd argue are far more talented. Wood for Haskell, when Moody failed last time is a good example.

The only difference is Lancaster has had significantly longer. Our breakdown work is at least as bad as 2011, our scrum and lineout is now worse, as is our use of first phase ball, incredibly. Even our dicipline is as bad. We decelerated into our own world cup while everyone else did the opposite.

How Lancaster could stay on is beyond me, unless a whole range of coaches decides they want to give us a bodyswerve

[Gwlad]

Whatkind of a sad individual fishes through four year old threads about other countries, anyway? Sheesh. Yes, it was a pity a moderate England under performed generally and lost to those two countries in our pool ranked above us, but at least we didn't lose at home, for example, to a team representing a part of Pacific island.

Good luck to all eight quarter finalists. At different times, they've all lit up this tournament in a way that few of those now out did: honourable mentions however to Japan & Romania, as well as those heavily defeated developing nations who never gave up, even when several scores adrift.

You're welcome and it perfectly illustrates why i did so. Cant see what it has to do with Wales performance though?

Perhaps if your management and Union learnt something from looking at their history instead of taking the attitude you have, then you could be as proud of your team as i am of mine.

Seems you'd rather not though so thats fine.

4 More years i'll hook it out again see where you're at then.

[SimonofSurrey]

I'm not quite sure why my paying others compliments offends you but I don't understand your post anyway. I'm sitting here several time zones to the west of the UK but why you're wittering on about all this at 3am is one for you and your conscience. Get some sleep please and I'll ignore you in the morning. Silly sad goose, you

[gregortree]

I'm not quite sure why my paying others compliments offends you but I don't understand your post anyway. I'm sitting here several time zones to the west of the UK but why you're wittering on about all this at 3am is one for you and your conscience. Get some sleep please and I'll ignore you in the morning. Silly sad goose, you

Gwlad is a lonely Welsh lad. Often rocks up on England threads looking for company and a chat with the English.

[LondonTiger]

Gwlad is a lonely Welsh lad. Often rocks up on England threads looking for company and  a chat with the English.

So desperate for english company it seems he is willing to consider Scottish South Africans as English

[Fanster]

Touching how this thread attracts so much concern from Welsh scribblers. Come and join us after your QF.

Enjoy watching it on your big screen

Must be frustrating that your favourite juju doll is out so soon. Still you can always keep sticking pins in the corpse, even though that is not quite so satisfying. You'll keep doing it even after Wales are out. My cats play with long dead mice, an unpleasant behaviour trait but they can't help themselves.

Not having a team in your own RWC I guess you don't really have anywhere else to go but to suggest that do you.

The single most unpleasant behavior trait is not learning from your mistakes as this 4 year old RWC 2011 England management issues thread quite clearly demonstrates.

Is this a similar trait Warren has everytime he plays Australia?

This is a thread about England and i'd say you have bigger things to worry about!

But, nice to see some fight from an Englishman. Shame the team had none.

I don't understand why you guys return anything to this boobie, let alone attack Welsh rugby as a response.

I think everyone who is represented here needs to grow up a touch!


RE England, I have to feel for a few players, Robshaw has been slated, Xavier Rush claimed he wasn't fit to play for any top 6/7 ranked team, I disagree so much. I think he'd start at 6 for all top 6/7 teams.

Similarly Brown has become a pantomime villain, and although he hasn't helped hisself, he is typical of this England team IMO, all passion and effort, but not a lot of qualtiy or idea of how to turn things around.

[No 7&1/2]

If you think brown has no quality there's not much hope for you.

[Gooseberry]

Silly sad goose, you

Honk

[Gooseberry]

and what difference would it be too what Rob Andrew is doing right now?

Could some one please explain to me the difference here.

http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/blog/english-mistakes/to-too-two/

This explains the difference

[Sponsored content]