Ashamed Tuilagi Makes a Break For It

First topic message reminder :

Tuilagi is apparently so ashamed of England's performance in yesterday's Qfinal exit, that he could no longer bare to be associated with his bested team mates.

The team had apparently become lost on their way to the plane, mistakenly believing they could take the Waiheke ferry to Sydney airport and avoid the British Tabloid media ruck at Auckland airport.

"I couldn't show my face amongst that idiot rabble amid another humiliating ruck-shy debacle" said the distraught young Samoan, "At the time, swimming back to Samoa seemed like a better option."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10757902

Gatts wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:England deserved to go out . we wernt good enough gatts. nice gloat by the way. All the same good luck in your semi, but you not there for getting the most gold stars- your there due to playing good rugby against the irish

it wasn't a gloat but a statement of fact pertinent to the issue at debate; England's behaviour off the pitch directly contributed to their failure on it. It totally explains their mindset at RWC; they were ill disciplined and unprofessional at best off the pitch, and in my view this contributed to their failure.

Ok i can see how that could have been the case, you have put that better. I still feel as though englands rugby feels way to disjointed and i am happy to get to grips with why we underperfomred- time for a new manager- at the end of the day, if your right, then it boils down to bad management and bad selection, if your not right and we just played poorly and deserved to get beat then again time for a change- england have alot of players to choose from.

1. Selection...10/12 Wilko Flood cost you the game. You need a gainline breaker at 12. Wilko played deep and instead of Flood playing 12 he too played a 10 role and largely distributed; by the time it got to Tuilagi the ball was 20 yards behind the gainline and England became entriely lateral. MJ hugely fecked up.
Picking JW and TF plus 5 forwards on the bench tells you all. They planned to keep it tight, bang up route 1 and kick France back. That is not what they did, they kicked 50% less metres than France.
England has an embarassment of riches and skills but squandered it because, and this surprises me, mentally you were ill prepped. Perhaps MJ doesn't have the professional distance he needs form his players? I think Eng have suffered from a 12/13 problem since greenwood left and now you have a 10 and 12 problem because JW is done, TF is inconsistent and you although you have the backs to do it, you still want to play forward orientated rugby based on setpiece and pk and drive. That should be a platform for a potent back 3.
2. Have a peek at Brand Haskell's MSN blog. The guy is a total buffoon. To me it says everything about attitude. I have toured for years and we all know that rugby tours need outlets but these are pros doing their job on the biggest stage for the biggest prize. i have often questioned the intelligence of pro rugby players - Wales have issues with it - and in my view these guys had their eyes off the goal. Gone are the days of Hill/Back/Dayglo/MJ/Dawson/Greenwood...all leadership material. Not sure who stands out in that capacity now.
3. Leadership - from MJ and LM/senior cadre - obviously inadequate as above
4. If powell and philipps can behave then anyone can.

Oh and add to this the farce that is the RFU and the SCW hiring debacle

Gatts wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:spot on rugbyfan.

Had England made it to the final, nobody would really give a shoite about what's gone on off the pitch.

You are both spectacularly missing the point.....behaving like this there is no way England were going to reach the final.

I disagree! NZ have had their problems with alcohol (Guilford & Jane) but they are still in the comp and if they lose to OZ no-one will blame a couple of nights out. In fact OZ had issues with O'Connor, but they're performing so nothing gets mentioned. The French are in a total mess, but may end up in the final, and even win it! So, off field issues DO NOT always lead to being knocked out. So you could say that 3 of the 4 semi finalists have had off field issues. Wales are the only saints!

I still fail to see much wrong with what England did off the pitch - a few drinks (after a win and in week one) and a bit of banter with a maid being the main 'offences'.

Too much is being made of some very petit issues like the gumshield incident and Tuilagi going for a swim.

rugbyfan wrote:

Gatts wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:spot on rugbyfan.

Had England made it to the final, nobody would really give a shoite about what's gone on off the pitch.

You are both spectacularly missing the point.....behaving like this there is no way England were going to reach the final.

I disagree! NZ have had their problems with alcohol (Guilford & Jane) but they are still in the comp and if they lose to OZ no-one will blame a couple of nights out. In fact OZ had issues with O'Connor, but they're performing so nothing gets mentioned. The French are in a total mess, but may end up in the final, and even win it! So, off field issues DO NOT always lead to being knocked out. So you could say that 3 of the 4 semi finalists have had off field issues. Wales are the only saints!

I still fail to see much wrong with what England did off the pitch - a few drinks (after a win and in week one) and a bit of banter with a maid being the main 'offences'.

Too much is being made of some very petit issues like the gumshield incident and Tuilagi going for a swim.

Did anyone else think that Tuilagi has a very big fat guts for a modern professional sportsman?

aucklandlaurie wrote: Did anyone else think that Tuilagi has a very big fat guts for a modern professional sportsman?

nope . there are alot of fat rugby players but he is ripped

England's unprofessional and ill disciplined behaviour off the pitch is the best indicator of their performance on it; the results rather speak for themselves. Take each individual incident and you may not believe it amounts to much - aside form the chambermaid incident I am inclined to agree - but taken as a reflection of the management, leadership and attitude of the squad, I think it speaks for itself

gatts it may have well made a difference- it may have well caused a split- the point though is simple everyone else does this as well. so lets not be hypocrites just because our press are

Defamation is a legal term with a precise meaning. Don't bandy it about unless you know what it means. post is not defamatory as it contains an element of truth and the rest is so obviously satirical.

mystiroakey wrote:gatts it may have well made a difference- it may have well caused a split- the point though is simple everyone else does this as well. so lets not be hypocrites just because our press are

you think what you want, i will think what i want. England are out, if you are narrow minded enough to not think the off pitch distractions did not factor in then that is your prerogative. Don't accuse me of hypocrisy for expressing my opinion.

mountains out of mole hills!

it's not like players missed traning, got arrested, refused to come off the subs bench or anything serious. if Tindall wasn't married to who he is then the whole dwarfgate thing would hardly have had a mention. And a bit of banter with a maid hardly shows squad indiscipline or lack of respect for MJ. Even the bans that came from on field issues were considered to be fairly harsh by many neutrals.


These things happen to lots of teams, it's just that if you play like crap (or happen to be married to royality!!!) then it gets thrown back in your face!

if wales win the world cup and George North jumps off a ferry, do you think anyone will call him illdisciplined?!! Win and you get away with lots, lose and you don't have an inch to move.

The players couldn't care less about Jonno. Their off field antics show a huge lack of respect for him. Don't blame the players, sack Jonno. It is obvious now.

Gatts wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:gatts it may have well made a difference- it may have well caused a split- the point though is simple everyone else does this as well. so lets not be hypocrites just because our press are

you think what you want, i will think what i want. England are out, if you are narrow minded enough to not think the off pitch distractions did not factor in then that is your prerogative. Don't accuse me of hypocrisy for expressing my opinion.

OH HERE WE GO - GATTS IS BACK

Pointless debating with you, you insist on missing the point with such spectacular confidence that trying to explain why their behaviour contributed to their downfall is futile.

Their behaviour and their failure are two sides of the same coin. Both show Jonno is not respected and he must go. Send him to coach Scotland with Robinson as his second in command.

mystiroakey wrote:

Gatts wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:gatts it may have well made a difference- it may have well caused a split- the point though is simple everyone else does this as well. so lets not be hypocrites just because our press are

you think what you want, i will think what i want. England are out, if you are narrow minded enough to not think the off pitch distractions did not factor in then that is your prerogative. Don't accuse me of hypocrisy for expressing my opinion.

OH HERE WE GO - GATTS IS BACK

Gatts - how you you argue that ill discpiline ruined England's chances but the same (or worse) ill discipline has not ruined Oz, NZ or France's?

Im sure its just a cultural misunderstanding GG, no doubt the lad will be oin twitter when he gets in, and has had a chance to relax with a few beers, to explain it.

But didn't you all say he was English? How can an Englishman misunderstand English culture? I mean he's been overstaying there since he was a young lad, and once his visa issue had been fiddled with the help of powerful RFU lawyers, surely he's as limey as St George himself?

Think you'll find St. George was a syrian. So, yes, Tuilagi is about as limey as the patron saint.

TheGreyGhost wrote:But didn't you all say he was English? How can an Englishman misunderstand English culture? I mean he's been overstaying there since he was a young lad, and once his visa issue had been fiddled with the help of powerful RFU lawyers, surely he's as limey as St George himself?

When does your visa run out?????

I'm English and i would struggle to explain English culture as its been watered down and made PC so no-one gets upset, its lost most of its meaning

To be fair England have pretty much always had a culture of being a bit rubbish at rugby.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:To be fair England have pretty much always had a culture of being a bit rubbish at rugby.

I'm not going to bite at that one...........

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:To be fair England have pretty much always had a culture of being a bit rubbish at rugby.

There you go again, welsh nutters just shooting their mouths off

Knackeredknees wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:But didn't you all say he was English? How can an Englishman misunderstand English culture? I mean he's been overstaying there since he was a young lad, and once his visa issue had been fiddled with the help of powerful RFU lawyers, surely he's as limey as St George himself?

When does your visa run out?????

I'm English and i would struggle to explain English culture as its been watered down and made PC so no-one gets upset, its lost most of its meaning

A similar analogy applies to English rugby I suppose. The traditional strengths have been watered down until the forward pack are frightened to say boo to their opposite numbers and in it's place a rag tag selection of foreigners with no team spirit or cohesion.

RubyGuby wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:To be fair England have pretty much always had a culture of being a bit rubbish at rugby.

There you go again, welsh nutters just shooting their mouths off

Isn't biscuit English? I saw the recent change to his location, but am not reading too much into that

Glas a du wrote:The players couldn't care less about Jonno. Their off field antics show a huge lack of respect for him. Don't blame the players, sack Jonno. It is obvious now.

Hm dunno bout respect, I think I would be just plain scared ****less if that hulk of a man snarled at me and said .. behave or else...

lol!!

I'm not sure how much I buy the link between off field incidents and onfield performances, although like most I would rather see the England team behave in a more professional manner. It's interesting to note, however, that some of the players who've been most criticised for their off-field antics have been the best performers on it, obviously I'm thinking mainly of Haskel and Manu, but you could also make a case for Ashton. The real problem might be the destabalising effect it's had on those who find the resultant media attention uncomfortable, Wilkinson for example has looked thoroughly uncomfortable in a couple of interviews I've seen. What's needed is for the whole squad to buy into one culture, preferably not at the Haskel end of the scale, but also not total social recluses. Wales seem to have got the balance quite spot on and seem a happy, unified and accessible squad without making fools out of themselves.

Thinking about it, part of the problem is the difference in media attention. Welsh players are used to being the centre of attention with Rugby being the national sport and I think it was Gatland that said it was nice to get out of the Welsh 'fishbowl'. England on the other hand are used to the footballers hogging the lime light, often for the wrong reasons, and their discretions are often over looked. Obviously in rugby-mad NZ the media focus is much more squarely on them and they're no longer getting away with things.

Frankly the only thing that's been shameful is the conduct of the WAGs. The Queen´s granddaughter came out and not even the slightest bit of newsworthy gossip. Disgraceful.

And such a waste of money to fly all that way, just to get an early return flight.

Man(u) Overboard!

AlynDavies wrote:Man(u) Overboard!

lol good one- why didnt i think of that

England are out because they have no game plan simple as,
they relied on teams making mistakes and the English forwards got seriously humbled in the France and Scotland game,
if the Scotish could score tries England would have had an even harder day at the office.

Anyway's its over now,yes the RFU look stupid after the comments in the spring on how they expect to be in the final but every nation goes to the RWC hoping to win it,just that 99% of the nations aren't arrogant enough to say it.

Agreed. Typical arrogance from the RFU.

2 finals on the spin allows you to reach for that again- its certainly not arogant to have that goal again or mention it

Yes it is1
South Africa didn't say it and they are the current champs,just sheer arrogance.

The real arrogance comes from the RFU" insuring"/betting on themselves to lift the 2011 world cup to cover players bonuses

That's what the kids these days call an EPIC-FAIL

viewtothegym wrote:Yes it is1
South Africa didn't say it and they are the current champs,just sheer arrogance.

didnt they lol.. you really need to get out of your bubble pal

viewtothegym wrote:The real arrogance comes from the RFU" insuring"/betting on themselves to lift the 2011 world cup to cover players bonuses

That's what the kids these days call an EPIC-FAIL

lol its called prudence you nut. its very good accountancy practise- Every team should do it, obviously the less likely you are to win the cheaper it is. If anyone is laughing about this 'business' decsion but comes from a poorer union then you really need to 'GO FIGURE'

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/interviews/article-23895911-england-wont-win-rugby-world-cup-next-year-says-rfus-new-chief.do

lol i think that answers both your concerns..

here is a snipet

"England won't win Rugby World Cup next year, says RFU's new chief

England may struggle to beat the All Blacks on the pitch but, when it comes to making money, it is Twickenham that is the master and New Zealand very much the struggling pupil.

The Rugby Football Union's results for 2009-10 show an income of £112million and profits of £25.8m. In contrast, the world's best team — Saturday was their ninth successive Test win over England since a Martin Johnson-led victory in 2003 — earned £46m last year yet made losses of £7.5m.

John Steele, the new chief executive of the RFU, has inherited the money- making empire that Francis Barron built during his 12 years in charge. It is hard to miss. As I arrive at Twickenham, I am escorted into a gleaming modernised stadium, with a Marriott-managed hotel, a megastore and hospitality boxes sponsored by household names."

Even more of a travesty with those financial resources that England can't develop a starting 15 within England, and foreign mercenaries they've paid for couldn't get past a 1/4 final. In the long term organisations are evaluated on their successes, and I feel that the RFU stocks have hit an all time low with one of their worst world cups ever, you remember world cups, "The Big Stage" that England were supposed masters of? "sacrificing" all of those "unimportant" games, so they could "peak at the right time"?

gg it was almost prdictable that you would come on here mentioning that lol

We know business, we are good at it-BUT we need to sort out our coaching and soon, but in fairness to the RFU - it was allways about 2015, lets see what happens shall we.

what was all about 2015?

well obviously its ridiculas to suggest that we should prepare for a future world cup ahead of another world cup. But we will be at home and it is obviously a massive priority to have a good home world cup

Hopefully us dumping out in the quarters will make the RFU wake up and sort us out- If england had played ugly rugby but got to a final it may have been the worst thing for us(take note of 2007)

mystiroakey wrote:gg it was almost prdictable that you would come on here mentioning that lol

We know business, we are good at it-BUT we need to sort out our coaching and soon, but in fairness to the RFU - it was allways about 2015, lets see what happens shall we.

"It was always about 2015".

Sure it was mate. Keep telling yourself that.

well you may not even be there !!!!!

but in fairness we all now it was just idle threats