Jack still believes in Tiger. Do you?

Jack thinks that Tiger will break his record of 18 career professional majors. Tiger is currently stuck on 14 and not exactly playing well. Until even last year after the chevron i would have agreed with this statement but Sean Foley has totally ruined his swing. I am pretty sure his current form is all technical and nothing to do with his marriage break up. Meaning he cannot just get over it.

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,2056496,00.html


Tiger is what, 35/36, so has about 5 years to win 5 majors and trump Jacks total. So in some ways a rate of one a year should not be unrealistic for Tiger but even a true fan like me is finding it hard to predict such a thing when thinking rationally. As I said however I am a real fan and therefore it is now about faith. Dear god I am now relying on concepts that should be reserved for the irrationality of religion. Is that a sign Tiger has had it?

So should we listen to Jack, after all he knows all about winning majors?

Jack still earns about $20m a year from attendances, endoresements etc, so he and people like Greg Norman, who himself earns about the same are still really part of the PGA Tour. So I suspect they are perpetuating Finchems dream of having a winning Tiger back.

I can't see Tiger doing it until he changes Foley for someone else. Yes he'll still produce shots of sublime majesty, because talent will always be there, but he's a car crash waiting to happen at the moment

Mac, I strongly believe that this year's Masters is pretty much 'Make or Break' for Woods. It is the most likely one he could win this year imho. If he wins at Augusta, you wouldn't rule him out of winning another one in fairly quick succession (poss the US Open?) however if he fails to compete with the 'young guns' and Augusta stalwarts then I fear he will be unlikely to win one in the forseeable future

I've never been a TW fan, always found him to be a bit brash and IMO disrespectful to his opponents. I'm not into all the fist pumping and hollering when a putt goes in. I'd much rather see a smile and a touch of the cap, more Els style.
I know Jack was regarded as brash when he first appeared on tour but he quickly settled down into a true gentleman that showed respect and humiliation. Remember the conceded Ryder Cup putt and comments to Jacklin? Somehow I just don't think Woods has that type of thing in his makeup.

So, for the tradition and well being of golf, I hope he doesn't break Jack's record*

*Disclaimer: The above is purely the opinion of the author 8)

In a word - no.

In a few more - Jack would look like a total prick if he came out saying, "i don't think Tiger will do it." He has nothing to gain from saying it. Whereas if he says, "he can do it". He looks supportive of a fallen hero but really just heaps more pressure on Tiger (whether that's is his intention or not). Its a no brainer and i wouldn't read to much into it.

Lets not forget... Tiger with a chronic knee problem, an admission that he doesn't practice as much as he used to (due to seeing his kids who don't live with him), coming off a personally and professionally disruptive marriage break up, undergoing a swing change and currently playing the worst golf of his career needs to win as many majors from now on as Seve won his whole career..... I can't see it.

"Tiger with a chronic knee problem, an admission that he doesn't practice as much as he used to (due to seeing his kids who don't live with him), coming off a personally and professionally disruptive marriage break up, undergoing a swing change and currently playing the worst golf of his career needs to win as many majors from now on as Seve won his whole career"

About as good a summation of Tiger's situation as i've seen to date! Nice one

Rossa Summed up sucsinctly me thinks

Jury's out now as far as I'm concerned but what I would say is that IF he finds a way back to win 1 more he WILL win at least 5 more.

I know people saying Foley has ruined Tigers swing is a matter of opinion but if TW does get stack and Tilt to click and bags a major which I think he will, Will those same people admit. Foley didn't ruin his swing! I'm not a fan of Tiger but if he thinks there's something in Foleys teachings then surely then he is the better judge of that than us mere mortals as its not the first time he has rebuilt been through a woeful patch whilst doing it then destroyed fields when it did click.

As said I'm not a fan, I like guys like Stricker and Donald who go about it quietly and professionally but would be good to see someone break Jacks record in my lifetime

Rossa wrote:In a word - no.

In a few more - Jack would look like a total prick if he came out saying, "i don't think Tiger will do it." He has nothing to gain from saying it. Whereas if he says, "he can do it". He looks supportive of a fallen hero but really just heaps more pressure on Tiger (whether that's is his intention or not). Its a no brainer and i wouldn't read to much into it.

Lets not forget... Tiger with a chronic knee problem, an admission that he doesn't practice as much as he used to (due to seeing his kids who don't live with him), coming off a personally and professionally disruptive marriage break up, undergoing a swing change and currently playing the worst golf of his career needs to win as many majors from now on as Seve won his whole career..... I can't see it.

A big . Right on the money for me and Jack's never struck me as remotely dumb.

McLaren wrote:...but Sean Foley has totally ruined his swing...

Blah, blah, blah. Sorry to pick on your particular reference to this dead horse (you're by no means the only one) but if the many people here and elsewhere think that someone like Foley is going to 'fix' TW's swing in, what is effectively, no time at all I don't think it reflects very well on many people's knowledge of just what a complex and ingrained thing a pro's golf swing is.

If Tiger makes Foley's swing work and gets back to winning Majors with it i for one will have no problem admitting i was wrong about it.
As has been implied it may well be that the swing is a work in progress and will change. At the mo it doesn’t look right so I hope it does. Good luck to him

Even if Tiger 'gets his swing back' he may never win another major. His swing wasn't what set him apart form the rest, if thats all it took then Els woould have won 14 majors.

He need to get back that mentality, that clutch putting - these things are much less tangible and therefore hard to achieve.

When he's done that he needs dominate another generation of golfers to gain the edge he had/probably still has over Phil, Ernie etc...

I can't see him doing all of those things.

He may pick up another major or two but five? Not for me...

not that he's going to disappear. he's got a lifetime exemption on the PGA tour

Navy

Why are you such a stack and tilt fan, tiger and badds must be the only ones left using what seems to have been a catastrophe for all. I am not sure tiger is strictly stack and tilt but it might be worse if he is stuck between his old swing and stack and tilt.

If you are trying to sell dvd's then I might understand.

McLaren wrote:Navy

Why are you such a stack and tilt fan, tiger and badds must be the only ones left using what seems to have been a catastrophe for all. I am not sure tiger is strictly stack and tilt but it might be worse if he is stuck between his old swing and stack and tilt.

If you are trying to sell dvd's then I might understand.

Bads doesn't use stack and tilt! He did switch to it, but after a period of inconsistency he ditched it about 2 years ago and went back to his old coach and removed stack and tilt from his game and got back to his more natural swing, even quoted as saying that after his win at riviera.

That said Tiger isn't the only one wielding S&T though, other guys in the Foley school of long game or stack and tilt as he is being deemed a teacher of Hunter Mahan, Justin Rose (both 2x Winner last year) and Sean O'Hair to name but 3. All good players making a good career. So not just Tiger.

There's nothing wrong with stack and tilt, or any other teaching of the swing as long as it works for the individual using the swing the important factor is to commit to what ever your learning and believe that once its fully ingrained you will come out the other side better for it, unlike Mike Weir! He went stack and tild, felt he liked it from 7iron down but didn't commit to it in his long game and tried ditching it halfway through the transition of swing and its that which has wrecked his game on top of illness

Mav

Can you really condone stack and Tilt. Hogan or moe norman would probably puke if they saw it. Not to mention what old tom would think.

McLaren wrote:Mav

Can you really condone stack and Tilt. Hogan or moe norman would probably puke if they saw it. Not to mention what old tom would think.

Of course I can condone it, we don't live in the time of hogan and norman life and golfs moved on from then. Yes there is still a lot can be learnt from hogans swing but its not the only way of swinging a club.

A swing doesn't have to be graceful or a thing of beauty it has to be functional and repetitive Furyk and Gainey have unique swings that cannot be taught or coached.

But for those learning the game or seeking improvement their are many types of swing that can be taught there's the leadbetter school of thought, Harmon and his one piece takeaway, Haneys flatter swing plane where things look a little laid off, kuch and his one plane swing, Foley with stack and tilt

I can condone any swing that works for any individual, there's not just one play to play this game. There's no right and wrong there's just the objective lowest number wins and the swing is irrelevant in its design just its execution that is repeated to best use.

There's the old saying its not how its how many. So if Mahan, Woods, Rose etc want to use stack and tilt fairplay if others want Hogans methond then so be it if it works what does it matter

Maverick wrote:

McLaren wrote:Navy

Why are you such a stack and tilt fan, tiger and badds must be the only ones left using what seems to have been a catastrophe for all. I am not sure tiger is strictly stack and tilt but it might be worse if he is stuck between his old swing and stack and tilt.

If you are trying to sell dvd's then I might understand.

Bads doesn't use stack and tilt! He did switch to it, but after a period of inconsistency he ditched it about 2 years ago and went back to his old coach and removed stack and tilt from his game and got back to his more natural swing, even quoted as saying that after his win at riviera.

That said Tiger isn't the only one wielding S&T though, other guys in the Foley school of long game or stack and tilt as he is being deemed a teacher of Hunter Mahan, Justin Rose (both 2x Winner last year) and Sean O'Hair to name but 3. All good players making a good career. So not just Tiger.

There's nothing wrong with stack and tilt, or any other teaching of the swing as long as it works for the individual using the swing the important factor is to commit to what ever your learning and believe that once its fully ingrained you will come out the other side better for it, unlike Mike Weir! He went stack and tild, felt he liked it from 7iron down but didn't commit to it in his long game and tried ditching it halfway through the transition of swing and its that which has wrecked his game on top of illness

Thanks for making it unnecessary for me to re-iterate that Badds isn't S&T anymore. That said though, he may well have gone back to another coach and 'ditched' S&T but he can't just forget what he learnt from Bennett and Plummer.

McLaren wrote:Mav

Can you really condone stack and Tilt. Hogan or moe norman would probably puke if they saw it. Not to mention what old tom would think.

Moe Norman may well have puked but I don't see many people aping Moe's swing do you??? Hogan used so much that's now part of S&T it's ridiculous. I think Mr. Hogan would think much of it is very sensible advice.

Oh and I'm not selling S&T DVDs. I'm not a S&T fan in the sense that I would say I use it. I just dislike people trashing something they haven't bothered to find out about.

Back to the topic: Westwood went from no. 4 or 5 in the world to 250 - and back to no.1.
At least Tiger is still lingering (no missed cuts) and it seems like he "just" needs to straigthen his driver and work on the mental part of his game. Somehow you have the feeling he can pull off a victory anytime.
Whether he will win 5 or 6 more majors, we will see - but I agree that if he just wins one more you can't write him off for another 4 or 5.

Pedro

That is a good point about westwood. However, I wonder if there are more examples of players not regaining form?

I can think of Els, Seve, Baker Finch, Ty Tryon (although did he ever have any) and no doubt there are more.

Even though I must also remember that even Els and Seve were not in Tiger league, so maybe there is no worthwhile comparison.

Tiger has class, would not worry to much about his swing changes just yet, as I am sure he can fix it himself.
Will he win more Majors, Absolutely yes, how many is more trickier, as he gets closer to jack's record then they become harder for him to win