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Munster Announce European Cup Squad 2011/2012

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Post by red_stag Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Munster have named John Hayes in their Heineken Cup squad for the 2011/12 season.
Because of front row injuries to Darragh Hurley and Peter Borlase, Hayes has been included for the pool stages of the competition.

Included for their first ever Heineken Cup are Munster Academy graduates wing Simon Zebo, scrum-half Conor Murray and hooker Sean Henry, along with current academy wing-forward Dave O'Callaghan.

The squad also includes new recruits Ian Keatley, BJ Botha, Will Chambers and development squad prop John Ryan.

Notable absentees are Jerry Flannery, David Wallace and Felix Jones, all front-line players ruled out through injury sustained while preparing for or participating in the Rugby World Cup.

Neither Wallace nor Jones would be available to take any part in the pool stages, while Flannery may be added at a later date.

Munster Heineken Cup Squad:

Props: Marcus Horan, Wian du Preez, John Ryan, Stephen Archer, BJ Botha, John Hayes

Hookers: Denis Fogarty, Damien Varley, Michael Sherry, Sean Henry

Second Rows: Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callaghan, Michael O'Driscoll, Ian Nagle, Donnacha Ryan

Backrows: Niall Ronan, Billy Holland, Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony, Dave O'Callaghan, Denis Leamy, James Coughlan

Scrumhalves: Tomas O'Leary, Conor Murray, Duncan Williams, Peter Stringer

Flyhalves: Ronan O'Gara, Ian Keatley

Centres: Danny Barnes, Will Chambers, Tom Gleeson, Lifeimi Mafi

Back Threes: Scott Deasy, Doug Howlett, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls

Can this squad get past Northampton, Scarlets and Castres?
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Post by rodders Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:12 am

Sin é wrote:
I'd think our weather could be a massive problem for him though.

Can't he just buy an umberella?
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Post by Sin é Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:17 am

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:
I'd think our weather could be a massive problem for him though.

Can't he just buy an umberella?

Its a cardigan he will need Very Happy He would be used to plenty of rain in Queensland!


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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:22 am

Hopefully he will be able to get you the go forward ball that you could be missing due to Wallace's injury.

I really hope he is that kind of player cos you guys are so short on ball carriers. It may afford ROG the chance to stand flatter if he is an option coming hard and straight attacking the line.

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Post by Sin é Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:45 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Hopefully he will be able to get you the go forward ball that you could be missing due to Wallace's injury.

I really hope he is that kind of player cos you guys are so short on ball carriers. It may afford ROG the chance to stand flatter if he is an option coming hard and straight attacking the line.

He is a big guy - 6'2" & about 100 Kg, so he should be able to punch a few holes.

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Post by Welshmushroom Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:35 am

We are seeing a changing of the guard slowly at Munster.

But with the Spirit at that province, I dont think the phrase "Weak Squad" exists. They play for each other and always make it though on the opposition. Until the Ospreys match they hadnt lost at Thomond in 18 months. Can't think of any other club side in Europe who can boast that kind of record. They will be a force as always. Are they good enough to win the HC? Probably is a stretch to far in my book but still favourites in this pool I reckon.

I dont think anyone is disrespecting Northampton here but from an outsiders point of view team isnt playing well at the moment and struggeling for form and confidence. The England players coming back havent been playing well either and often confidence makes a big difference in the HC. Can Northampton just turn it on like that against the best? Its not looking great if im honest. I also think a few players have been worked out a little and Malinder dosn't seem to have a plan B when its going wrong.

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:42 am

I do think it is a weak Munster squad I have to say, not too many weaknesses but not too many strengths either. Just my opinion and am basing that on previous Munster squads.

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Post by valjester Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:39 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I do think it is a weak Munster squad I have to say, not too many weaknesses but not too many strengths either. Just my opinion and am basing that on previous Munster squads.

Its definitely a weak munster squad but I think they are in a better position than they were this time last year. Granted they are missing wally but leamy is in better form, judging by the world cup warm ups, than he has been in a while and POM is really looking like he is going to step up. Botha at three should solve their scrum problem or at least lessen it.

But most importantly they have POC back and a fully fit Earls for the group stages this year. That is going to help a lot.

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Post by Morgannwg Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:50 am

Should cruise past Scarlets and Castres. Northampton will be a tough challenge though, you must be pretty fed up of playing them by now.
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Post by red_stag Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:36 pm

I'd say that Saints are probably pretty sick of getting knocked out of Europe against us Smile

I find the different views interesting. To me Im more worried about Castres (south of France is a very tough place to travel, they finished in 3rd place in France last year, this year they are currently in 2nd place) and also Scarlets.

Saints faced pitiful opposition in Europe last year usually reliant on home advantage. You can only beat whats in front of you and they did that. However its a tougher pool this year IMO. Far from dominating the league they came in 4th place and are 9th this year. Munster have faced them in Europe in two seasons and sent them home twice. Sky Sports has over hyped them as they have young English players.
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:45 pm

red_stag wrote:I'd say that Saints are probably pretty sick of getting knocked out of Europe against us Smile

I find the different views interesting. To me Im more worried about Castres (south of France is a very tough place to travel, they finished in 3rd place in France last year, this year they are currently in 2nd place) and also Scarlets.

Saints faced pitiful opposition in Europe last year usually reliant on home advantage. You can only beat whats in front of you and they did that. However its a tougher pool this year IMO. Far from dominating the league they came in 4th place and are 9th this year. Munster have faced them in Europe in two seasons and sent them home twice. Sky Sports has over hyped them as they have young English players.
Naughty!! Laugh

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Post by red_stag Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:54 pm

The truth is a bitter pill to swallow.
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Post by Morgannwg Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:24 am

Interesting view red_stag, and probably an accurate one. Castres are re-entering the competition I believe so I don't see them as contenders. Scarets are good in attack but weak up front and in defence. Munster usually squeeze the life out of them so their backs can't run whilst being capable of some devistating attacks themselves.

Saints were over-hyped a bit and their biggest pool rivals, the Blues, were very poor all that season. If anything they were reliant on some in-correct reffing decisions that went against their opposition. I still think they were worthy finalists and full credit to them is due for being un-defeated up until that final in Cardiff. That said, I believe Munster still have what it takes to send them packing for a third time.
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Post by Sin é Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:53 pm

The heir to David Wallace's throne?

Emerging red giant has 'mccaw-like' quality
Wednesday October 26 2011

PETER O'MAHONY'S club coach believes he has a "Richie McCaw-like" quality and should be played regularly in the No 7 role, WRITES HUGH FARRELLY.

Brian Walsh coached O'Mahony straight out of school with Cork Constitution in the All-Ireland League and has not been surprised with the youngster's rapid development which saw him made Munster captain on this 22nd birthday last month.

"Peter is developing that all the time and he brings a Richie McCaw-like approach in his size, athleticism, aggression and the way he plays the breakdown," said Walsh.

"He is an extremely athletic player, a very good line-out option and a very physical player, he is seen as the next Alan Quinlan for Munster -- although he has a way to go to reach Quinlan's cuteness.

"There is a raw edge to his game which has got him quite a few yellow cards -- in his first two games for us, he was carded in both. We had a chat with him after that. We didn't want him to lose that edge, just to control it a bit better.

"It was very clever and a very progressive move by Munster management to make him captain," added Walsh. "He has a history of captaincy and is comfortable in that role and I would say one of his strongest qualities is his work ethic, which sets a good example.

"I definitely think it would be a very important part of Peter's development to play at 7 at a higher level. There is a role for the hybrid No 7 where, as you saw with McCaw at the World Cup, you can marry ball-carrying with breakdown skills."

Irish Independent
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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:49 pm

Sin é wrote:The heir to David Wallace's throne?

Emerging red giant has 'mccaw-like' quality
Wednesday October 26 2011

PETER O'MAHONY'S club coach believes he has a "Richie McCaw-like" quality and should be played regularly in the No 7 role, WRITES HUGH FARRELLY.

Brian Walsh coached O'Mahony straight out of school with Cork Constitution in the All-Ireland League and has not been surprised with the youngster's rapid development which saw him made Munster captain on this 22nd birthday last month.

"Peter is developing that all the time and he brings a Richie McCaw-like approach in his size, athleticism, aggression and the way he plays the breakdown," said Walsh.

"He is an extremely athletic player, a very good line-out option and a very physical player, he is seen as the next Alan Quinlan for Munster -- although he has a way to go to reach Quinlan's cuteness.

"There is a raw edge to his game which has got him quite a few yellow cards -- in his first two games for us, he was carded in both. We had a chat with him after that. We didn't want him to lose that edge, just to control it a bit better.

"It was very clever and a very progressive move by Munster management to make him captain," added Walsh. "He has a history of captaincy and is comfortable in that role and I would say one of his strongest qualities is his work ethic, which sets a good example.

"I definitely think it would be a very important part of Peter's development to play at 7 at a higher level. There is a role for the hybrid No 7 where, as you saw with McCaw at the World Cup, you can marry ball-carrying with breakdown skills."

Irish Independent

I like this a lot.

I think it will be him or Ryan at 7 and SOB will either take the place of Ferris or Heaslip right now I'd say take the place of Heaslip

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Post by BlueMuff Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:43 am

Might be covered all ready but anybody know when Felix Jones is back?

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Post by Irish Curry Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:00 am

Not sure I had a quick look on google to see if there was anything but I didn't find anything. That said it was just a quick glance at the results.
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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:57 am

I have to disagree about POM at 7. From what I have seen, he is our perfect heir to number 8. He is very aggressive, a great ball carrier, great tackler and a hard working player. An all around monster basically. The aggression especially is what we have missed from Heaslip, so I do see him taking over fairly soon if Heaslip doesn't get his act together.

Wanting to play him at 7 just seems to me a desperate attempt to create an answer to having an openside, or our own Richie McCaw (I don't understand the resemblance one bit).

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Post by valjester Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:22 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I have to disagree about POM at 7. From what I have seen, he is our perfect heir to number 8. He is very aggressive, a great ball carrier, great tackler and a hard working player. An all around monster basically. The aggression especially is what we have missed from Heaslip, so I do see him taking over fairly soon if Heaslip doesn't get his act together.

Wanting to play him at 7 just seems to me a desperate attempt to create an answer to having an openside, or our own Richie McCaw (I don't understand the resemblance one bit).

He will eventually move to 8 but he has the ability to be a very good 7 while he bides his time. The player he most resembles in playing style is harinordoquy, who has played well at flanker a lot in his career.

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Post by MBTGOG Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:39 am

I can see him playing at 7 for a year or two. Remember that Coughlan has been one of our stand out players for the past two seasons.


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Post by valjester Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:01 am

MBTGOG wrote:I can see him playing at 7 for a year or two. Remember that Coughlan has been one of our stand out players for the past two seasons.



It comes down to whether leamy-pom-coughlan is stronger than leamy-ronan-pom and the former is definitely better.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:39 am

But when Wallace returns (I think he will for a few seasons more) POM won't be playing 7.. Coughlan I agree has been playing very well though I think POM should definitely be challenging him for the 8 shirt instead of just moving to 7 to keep both in the team. I don't think he is like Harinordoquy myself.. I would say POM is much more aggressive and robust.

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Post by valjester Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:02 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:But when Wallace returns (I think he will for a few seasons more) POM won't be playing 7.. Coughlan I agree has been playing very well though I think POM should definitely be challenging him for the 8 shirt instead of just moving to 7 to keep both in the team. I don't think he is like Harinordoquy myself.. I would say POM is much more aggressive and robust.

Yes but whilst wally is injured it is the best use of resources. POM is very like harinordoquy, maybe slightly more robust and aggresive, but they are both superb lineout operators, they both have good hands and don't seek contact but if they are forced into contact the take it on their own terms. They share a lot of similarities in the way they go about their game. I agree that 8 is probably POM best position but I think he can be very effective at 7 and is Munster's best choice until wally is back.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:18 am

Don't agree about the Harinorduquy comparison, who I think Heaslip is more comparable with but yeah I hope he is developed as a future 8 for Ireland.

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Post by valjester Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:48 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Don't agree about the Harinorduquy comparison, who I think Heaslip is more comparable with but yeah I hope he is developed as a future 8 for Ireland.

Heaslip is a similar build to harinorduquy but a different type of player in many ways.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:40 am

Once again I have to disagree :P Heaslip is what you described above, the dynamic style of number 8 that Harinordoquy is. POM to me is more like Kieran Read or Parisse. But yeah, we just have different opinions I think!

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Post by valjester Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:10 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Once again I have to disagree :P Heaslip is what you described above, the dynamic style of number 8 that Harinordoquy is. POM to me is more like Kieran Read or Parisse. But yeah, we just have different opinions I think!

I wouldn't describe Heaslip as dynamic, and read is a complete 8 who can do everything which Heaslip is when he wants to be. POM best attributes are his ability in the lineout, his handling and his ruck play which imo is more like Hari, but he is improving at the other aspects of his game and at only 22 he will improve. Heaslip is similar to hari in ways but pom is similar to heaslip in ways. But the point of the whole debate is that I feel POM will be equally at home as a flanker or number 8 in much the same way hari is and the others mentioned aren't.

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Post by MBTGOG Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:17 am

I think the Harinordiquy comparison is a very good one but the difference is he's a bit more of a firebrand than Hari.


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Post by Sin é Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:38 pm

This is what our HCup team could look like (with the reintroduction of Keatley to the bench).

Everyone thrilled that D Ryan is in the 2nd Row & POM is in the backrow?

It will be interesting to see how Chambers gets on:

Munster (v Aironi Rugby) RaboDirect PRO12 League, Friday (8.30pm) Musgrave Park.
J Murphy; D Howlett, W Chambers, D Barnes, K Earls; R O'Gara, C Murray; W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D Ryan, P O'Connell capt ; D Leamy, P O'Mahony, J Coughlan. Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, N Ronan, T O'Leary, S Deasy, L Mafi.

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Post by red_stag Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:01 pm

Im glad its Barnes and not Mafi who has been kept with Chambers. I agree with Sin, looks like our HEC team.
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