Munster 2012/13

Thomond wrote:The fella O'Donoghue in year one is a very, very good player That Waterpark team were outstanding and he was a key player. Nice to see a fella from Cork who doesn't go to PBC or CBC get in too. Might see another one in a few years...... just remember I said that.

Thomond wrote:The fella O'Donoghue in year one is a very, very good player That Waterpark team were outstanding and he was a key player. Nice to see a fella from Cork who doesn't go to PBC or CBC get in too. Might see another one in a few years...... just remember I said that.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Thomond wrote:The fella O'Donoghue in year one is a very, very good player That Waterpark team were outstanding and he was a key player. Nice to see a fella from Cork who doesn't go to PBC or CBC get in too. Might see another one in a few years...... just remember I said that.

What position in the back row? Another 6/8 or a 7? Tell me more.

Sin é wrote:LordDowlais - Last season we were crucified with injuries and some major retirements due to injury (Fla, Leamy & Wally). Then POC being injured so much as well as Howlett & Jones being out for most of the season. Added to that most our 2nd choice backrow got injured (Ronan & Couglan), but will be back next season. Our young backrowers are still very green.

I'm look forward to getting a new coach (Rob Penney) and welcoming some decent additions to the squad - Casey Laulala, James Downey & CJ Stander from SA. Throw in that a young Munster player got short listed for Young Inter. Player of the Year, I'm very much looking forward to Munster rebuilding to be a force to be reckoned with over the next 3-5 years.

It doesn't hurt seeing Leinster dominate Europe - it would be far worse I think if we'd never done it - its like we've been there, done that, hit rock bottom and the only way is up from here on in.

profitius wrote:

Thomond wrote:The fella O'Donoghue in year one is a very, very good player That Waterpark team were outstanding and he was a key player. Nice to see a fella from Cork who doesn't go to PBC or CBC get in too. Might see another one in a few years...... just remember I said that.

Anyone in mind, Thomond?

Yeah good to see a Waterford player make it. A few posters who have seen him play have been really impress with O'Donoghue.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Thomond wrote:The fella O'Donoghue in year one is a very, very good player That Waterpark team were outstanding and he was a key player. Nice to see a fella from Cork who doesn't go to PBC or CBC get in too. Might see another one in a few years...... just remember I said that.

What position in the back row? Another 6/8 or a 7? Tell me more.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Who were the try scorers?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Thanks, I'm not really familiar with any of those guys though. Good game?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Thanks, I'm not really familiar with any of those guys though. Good game?

Thomond wrote:Sloppy from the sounds of things, I don't think many teams play well and lose by 24 points, concerning but there will be an initial dodgy patch like Leisnter with Schmidt. Expect ours to last longer though.

GERRY THORNLEY gets an insight into what makes Munster’s new head coach tick as he begins the challenge of returning his charges to the glory days

In the desire to see indigenous coaches make more of an impact, there was merit in wanting Anthony Foley to assume the role of Munster head coach in succession to Tony McGahan. Instead, the appointment of Rob Penney, along with Mark Anscombe at Ulster, means three of the Irish provinces are being coached by Kiwis.

However, bearing in mind the huge impact Joe Schmidt has had at Leinster (the groundwork having been laid by Michael Cheika), not having been a head coach of a Super 15 franchise doesn’t necessarily prevent an Irish province from striking gold when digging a little deeper.

Like Cheika and Schmidt, Penney may not be especially high-profile outside his native land, but like Schmidt especially he’s relatively experienced nonetheless, having been assistant coach with both the Crusaders’ Super 12-winning team of 2005 as well as three years as assistant coach and six years as head coach of the Canterbury provincial side. That culminated in four successive ITM Cups, or provincial titles, before this summer’s IRB Junior World Championships with the New Zealand under-20 side.

Ask around about Penney in New Zealand during Ireland’s tour in June and it’s clear that he is held in very high esteem. He has a reputation for being a very well-planned and organised coach, particularly adept at developing players, and ultra-positive in outlook. Attempts to invoke positive thoughts and goals from players at Munster team meetings were initially met with embarrassed silence but, encouraged by Penney’s patience, the players have begun to speak up.

Spend some time in his company and his positive outlook is infectious. Genuine and passionate, he comes to Munster an ambitious and hungry coach. “I do have high expectations of myself,” he admits. “Coming through Canterbury the expectations are high and that fits with me. I am driven, but my driver is seeing young blokes achieve their aims, when a young guy goes from here to here as a player; achieves something that they may not have thought was possible. Gets the green Irish jersey; makes the British and Irish Lions. That is what really dives me.

“Organisationally I’m employed to do a job for Munster obviously and the expectations and the passion that go with that are palpable, which I love. That’s just part of who I am and I really enjoy that side of it. It spins my wheels and it makes me aspire to be a better coach all the time. I don’t know it all and I’m not satisfied with where I am as a coach. I’m still trying to learn and grow and develop, so I’m excited about the opportunity here and learning to coach in a new competition. Hopefully I can add something and it can add something to me,” he says, with almost disarming candour.

He admits he would have loved to coach one of New Zealand’s Super franchises but is philosophical about that and hugely grateful for the opportunity to “hopefully create something that Munster people will be really proud of”. Penney is equally philosophical about a distinguished playing career that saw him play a century of games and captain his native Canterbury, without ever playing for New Zealand despite a few All Blacks’ trials, primarily because his career coincided with first Wayne Shelford and then Zinzan Brooke as well as backrowers such as Alan Whetton.

“I had a lot of satisfaction. I wasn’t the most gifted individual and I suppose I’ve got a bit of a blue-collar attitude to life. I don’t mind at all mucking in and getting my hands dirty, and that’s sort of the way I played. And I played in some great eras. Probably the All Black team of that time was the best in history.”

Of his 100-plus games for Canterbury, he recalls a 1994 tour to the UK where they came through nine games in 21 days unbeaten. “The amateur days had some special components to them; relationships were built and life-long friendships. I’m not saying the professional doesn’t but it’s just slightly different.”

The game has changed, he concedes: “There’s a great quote: ‘People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care’. And I think there was a transition when the game went pro, that you had to become a machine, but it’s still a game for kids, a game that if you don’t love it, you shouldn’t be playing it, because it’s tough, it’s f**king tough. And that’s one of the things I used to love about it, I used to love the physical nature of the game, smashing people and getting smashed.

“Because it goes pro that doesn’t change, and your ability to manage your players to maximise their output, to help their growth and development in a game where they’re going through the equivalent of a small car crash every weekend, is challenging. But if they know you care about them, and they know you generally want their growth and development, I think the benefits and the spin-offs in terms of your relationship are far greater. They’re professional athletes but they still have some of the same vulnerabilities about their self-belief and abilities, and just because you get a pay check doesn’t change that. It’s still a game and you’ve still got to love it.”

Ask him who the biggest influences have been on his career and he says it was more the players he’s coached than the coaches who coached him, although he also describes one of his former coaches Wayne Smith, assistant coach to the All Blacks’ World Cup winners who has since guided the Chiefs to their first Super title, as outstanding.

“He is one of the greatest coaches – he probably won’t be fully appreciated how good he was until he’s finished. And I worked with Ozzie McClane and then I worked with Tabai Matson who’s a young, developing coach but exceptional quality. I’ve been fortunate to work with a lot of good rugby brains.”

If, in rugby terms, Munster were twinned with any New Zealand province/Super franchise, it would assuredly be Canterbury – and vice versa. That cultural fit sits well with Penney. “In both Canterbury and Munster there is a blue-ish tinge to the collar, and the Munster people keep telling me they’ve got chips on their shoulders and they like it that way. If I came in to work in a polka-dot tie and a pink shirt that’s probably not Munster, and if I was coming into an organisation that had that philosophy it probably would be difficult for me to transition. As I said, I’m a blue-collar worker.”

This manifests itself in a desire to be a hands-on, training-ground coach in a tracksuit more than a director of rugby, per se, in a suit. This is more what Munster need anyway. Very much the driving force in Irish rugby at the turn of the millennium, Munster are not the force of old and while Penney may well benefit from some of the transitional work undertaken by Tony McGahan, there’s little doubt they’re still going through their most difficult transitional phase of the professional era. The main caveat to all this is that, being Munster, they’re not allowed go through a transitional phase. Hence, despite reaching the knock-out stages of both the Heineken Cup and the Pro12, last season was generally regarded as a failure. Again though, being a Kiwi from Canterbury has readied him.

“That expectation sparks me up. It doesn’t intimidate me. It fuels the fire. The team has gone through massive transition. A lot of world-class players, a lot of intellectual property moved away from the playing staff and you can’t replace that overnight. All I want this group to do without adding more pressure than we’ve got, is to play as well as they can and represent the jersey with the pride and passion that those gentlemen who left did. And if we do that then we’ll be on the right track, and let’s see if we can grow together. But the expectations of the public need to be appeased as well, and that’s by performance.” The challenge of, like most Kiwis, uprooting home, won’t faze him. Before launching his career with Canterbury, as a 21-year-old he spent a year with Lyon, in 1984-1985, who were then in the ProD2. “It was a long time ago. It was total immersion and there was no internet. It took up to 12 days to get from New Zealand to France and vice versa, so it was a rude awakening for a young Kiwi boy. It was a great experience though.”

He also played for a year with Treviso.

This latest venture has meant uprooting home with Erin and their three sons. “Her grandfather was born in Derry, so she has an Irish connection, and we have three sons. Josh (20) is doing an apprenticeship in New Zealand, while Alex (16) and Cameron (14) are attending Christian Brothers on Monday,” he smiles with evident pride.

Coaching is not exactly replete with security, and wouldn’t be possible without an understanding family. “It’s a lifestyle, it’s not a job. You’ve got to put your heart and soul into it and be totally committed, and my family is amazing. My wife has been with me well before I started. We met when we were 15 and we’ve sort of been together ever since. She’s been through my playing career and coaching stints, and the rollercoaster that represents. And for the boys to uproot themselves at their age and come into a foreign environment, I just admire their courage so much.”

He hopes it will be a great experience for them also, that it will help set them on a pathway for life. He is sure that will be the case for himself. “It will be. I’ll make it successful. Obviously we’ll be trying to achieve things, but success is measurable in a number of different ways. And I already know that this is going to be successful.”

red_stag wrote:For me the biggest call is the inclusion of JJ Hanrahan over Scott Deasy.

SecretFly wrote:O'Gara = USA

Ok, ok...only being affectedly pedantic. Carry on.

Golden wrote:Is Howlett off at the end of the season then?

When he played schools rugby I really thought this guy was going to be huge, he has been very disappointing in his pro career thus far. So if he can unlock a shred of his potential then it will be a good deal.