Latest IRB lunacy

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 24 Oct 2011, 4:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyWorldCup2011/France-fined-for-haka-breach-20111024

Now I really miss that facepalm emoticon.

Every New Zealander I've discussed it with loved the French haka response. So please don't blame us for this one guys.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 12:05 pm

mystiroakey wrote:the haka is a mauri thing- it means what ever they want it to at any given time- it is a war dance, or just a dance, its a welcome dance, its a dance to signify improtance. I dunno , why did we morris dance i suppose i dont get that either, why did the scotsmen wear dresses. What has happened is that now we only really associate the haka with rugby, it has nothing to do with rugby whatso ever , it is only a mauri tradition, make of it what you will.

We don't

by Davie Tue 25 Oct 2011, 12:06 pm

Wasn't there a bit in the old Kamate Haka about the brave warrior hiding beneath the skirts of an old villager woman until the danger had passed?

by mystiroakey Tue 25 Oct 2011, 12:08 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:the haka is a mauri thing- it means what ever they want it to at any given time- it is a war dance, or just a dance, its a welcome dance, its a dance to signify improtance. I dunno , why did we morris dance i suppose i dont get that either, why did the scotsmen wear dresses. What has happened is that now we only really associate the haka with rugby, it has nothing to do with rugby whatso ever , it is only a mauri tradition, make of it what you will.
We don't

lol just trying to think of things that we did that are strange today- i mentioned morris danciung as well pal- not singling you out.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 25 Oct 2011, 12:16 pm

Davie wrote:Wasn't there a bit in the old Kamate Haka about the brave warrior hiding beneath the skirts of an old villager woman until the danger had passed?

Pretty much. Te Rauparaha hid in a kumara (sweet potato) storage pit and the woman stood to conceal the top of it. That's the bit in Ka Mate about the sun going away and then returning (he couldn't see the sun and didn't think the pursuers would fall for it).

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 12:28 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:the haka is a mauri thing- it means what ever they want it to at any given time- it is a war dance, or just a dance, its a welcome dance, its a dance to signify improtance. I dunno , why did we morris dance i suppose i dont get that either, why did the scotsmen wear dresses. What has happened is that now we only really associate the haka with rugby, it has nothing to do with rugby whatso ever , it is only a mauri tradition, make of it what you will.
We don't

lol just trying to think of things that we did that are strange today- i mentioned morris danciung as well pal- not singling you out.

by The Great Aukster Tue 25 Oct 2011, 2:14 pm

Surely the title of this thread should read "Latest manifestation of NZRU protecting their brand"?

By the letter of their laws the IRB are perfectly right to fine the FFR, as if they didn't they would be undermining their own guidelines (i.e. lunacy). The French also knew they would be breaching the IRB's code on how to 'respect' the haka before challenging it, so they knew they would be fined and should therefore pay it.

If allowing a response to the haka was really so important to the NZRU why did they not get the IRB to overturn their edict when it was first sent out a few years ago? Are we expected to believe that the NZRU weren't consulted regarding appropriate/inappropriate responses to the haka before the IRB published their guidelines? I don't expect the NZRU to contribute anything towards the fine or try to embarass the IRB because they are obviously complicit in these daft guidelines from their inception. I sympathise with the honest Kiwi fans who believe the haka is more than just a gimmick to promote the AB brand, but from an outsider's perspective it seems to have been completely assimilated into the marketeer's portfolio. Nothing must be allowed to detract from it as a spectacle or ambush the market opportunity. We have all heard how strapped for cash the NZRU is and how important they are to the world game so why on earth would they allow any "response" to tarnish the supreme brand symbol?

BTW what the French did wasn't a 'response' to the haka, as it was done before the haka was complete. Surely if a response is allowed, that has to happen after the conclusion of the haka? So in the interests of fairness the responding team should be afforded the exact same amount of time to make their response, and everyone could maybe get another pint in before the start of the real action.

by Glas a du Tue 25 Oct 2011, 2:27 pm

You're an ad man aren't you?

by mystiroakey Tue 25 Oct 2011, 2:38 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Surely the title of this thread should read "Latest manifestation of NZRU protecting their brand"?

By the letter of their laws the IRB are perfectly right to fine the FFR, as if they didn't they would be undermining their own guidelines (i.e. lunacy). The French also knew they would be breaching the IRB's code on how to 'respect' the haka before challenging it, so they knew they would be fined and should therefore pay it.

If allowing a response to the haka was really so important to the NZRU why did they not get the IRB to overturn their edict when it was first sent out a few years ago? Are we expected to believe that the NZRU weren't consulted regarding appropriate/inappropriate responses to the haka before the IRB published their guidelines? I don't expect the NZRU to contribute anything towards the fine or try to embarass the IRB because they are obviously complicit in these daft guidelines from their inception. I sympathise with the honest Kiwi fans who believe the haka is more than just a gimmick to promote the AB brand, but from an outsider's perspective it seems to have been completely assimilated into the marketeer's portfolio. Nothing must be allowed to detract from it as a spectacle or ambush the market opportunity. We have all heard how strapped for cash the NZRU is and how important they are to the world game so why on earth would they allow any "response" to tarnish the supreme brand symbol?

BTW what the French did wasn't a 'response' to the haka, as it was done before the haka was complete. Surely if a response is allowed, that has to happen after the conclusion of the haka? So in the interests of fairness the responding team should be afforded the exact same amount of time to make their response, and everyone could maybe get another pint in before the start of the real action.

why does it have to be after, i dont get that! its all about undermining it from the opponents point of view, not an x factor contest where everyone gets there turn

by emack2 Tue 25 Oct 2011, 2:42 pm

NZRFU said the response was inappropriate they love a response to the Haka,It`s the IRB who are getting funny about it ,what is there response to the Pacific Islands version of the haka ?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 3:32 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Surely the title of this thread should read "Latest manifestation of NZRU protecting their brand"?

By the letter of their laws the IRB are perfectly right to fine the FFR, as if they didn't they would be undermining their own guidelines (i.e. lunacy). The French also knew they would be breaching the IRB's code on how to 'respect' the haka before challenging it, so they knew they would be fined and should therefore pay it.

If allowing a response to the haka was really so important to the NZRU why did they not get the IRB to overturn their edict when it was first sent out a few years ago? Are we expected to believe that the NZRU weren't consulted regarding appropriate/inappropriate responses to the haka before the IRB published their guidelines? I don't expect the NZRU to contribute anything towards the fine or try to embarass the IRB because they are obviously complicit in these daft guidelines from their inception. I sympathise with the honest Kiwi fans who believe the haka is more than just a gimmick to promote the AB brand, but from an outsider's perspective it seems to have been completely assimilated into the marketeer's portfolio. Nothing must be allowed to detract from it as a spectacle or ambush the market opportunity. We have all heard how strapped for cash the NZRU is and how important they are to the world game so why on earth would they allow any "response" to tarnish the supreme brand symbol?

BTW what the French did wasn't a 'response' to the haka, as it was done before the haka was complete. Surely if a response is allowed, that has to happen after the conclusion of the haka? So in the interests of fairness the responding team should be afforded the exact same amount of time to make their response, and everyone could maybe get another pint in before the start of the real action.

Brilliant idea, Aukster

by english_osprey Tue 25 Oct 2011, 4:37 pm

I HATE the haka

What a piece of contrived nonsense. All it does is allow the kiwis another opportunity to wind themselves up while the opposition has to stand by and 'respect' it

Why oh why does the (NZ)IRB allow it?
Oh...I see.

by Glas a du Tue 25 Oct 2011, 4:53 pm

They have brainwashed the fans into supporting it.

Mind you, we have our own thriving pantomime tradition which also defies logic...

by greybeard Tue 25 Oct 2011, 5:29 pm

english_osprey wrote:I HATE the haka

How do you feel about the Cibi, Siva Tau and the Kailao?

by mystiroakey Tue 25 Oct 2011, 5:34 pm

greybeard wrote:
english_osprey wrote:I HATE the haka

How do you feel about the Cibi, Siva Tau and the Kailao?

I dont think he cares- he probally doesnt know what they are, because those dances are not promoted, but then neither is morris dancing, so who gives a hoot.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 25 Oct 2011, 5:45 pm

I like the Haka. What I hate is the IRB dictating to everyone else how they may or may not respond to it.

by Michaels, Sean Tue 25 Oct 2011, 5:57 pm

How can IRB fine France? Why do NZ always have to take a psychological advantage into a game? Look at nonu, picked his man and went for him. Why was the SA ref so one sided? Were the IRB desperate for NZ to win the WC?

NZ with Carter are by far the best side in the world. They have been for 18 of the last 24 years. England 2003 side and Oz 1991 side probably the only exceptions. They don't need help or sentiment.

Fantastic performances from Harinordoquay and Dusautoir. True warriors and while not as good as NZ, France deserved it on Sunday for me.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 25 Oct 2011, 6:03 pm

Footage on rugbydump.com: both sets of players advance within the IRB no-man zone, and Nonu makes the throat-slitting gesture warning

by tigerleghorn Tue 25 Oct 2011, 6:44 pm

I dont blame the Kiwis for this mess but it appears that the IRB are doing their best to remove this spine tingling spectacle.

What should the opposition do? Perhaps just lube up and bend over?

Btw, whats happened to GG? Kinda miss the balanced analysis he would no doubt bring to this topic. Has he been sent to the naughty room again?

by tigerleghorn Tue 25 Oct 2011, 7:37 pm

just another thought, didnt the french win the toss to decide "Home" team and sportingly elected to play in white so the Kiwis could play in Black?......No wonder they sometimes complain of an Anglo-Saxon conspiracy is it?

by Hood83 Tue 25 Oct 2011, 7:50 pm

tigerleghorn wrote:I dont blame the Kiwis for this mess but it appears that the IRB are doing their best to remove this spine tingling spectacle.

What should the opposition do? Perhaps just lube up and bend over?

Btw, whats happened to GG? Kinda miss the balanced analysis he would no doubt bring to this topic. Has he been sent to the naughty room again?

Allow me to speculate, he's either:

a) Imploded in a flaming ball of self-aggrandisement, smugness and self-satisfaction
b) Killed himself at the thought he can no longer pretend the WC doesn't matter to him
c) Experiencing a week long celebratory binge

I'm hoping the latter but expecting the former

by Gatts Tue 25 Oct 2011, 7:51 pm

thegreyghost has been all over Tom Fordyce's BBC blog

by english_osprey Tue 25 Oct 2011, 7:57 pm

'I dont think he cares- he probally doesnt know what they are, because those dances are not promoted'

how do you come to that conclusion my patronising friend? Have we met somewhere without my knowledge?

Anything that gives one team an advantage over another can't be right. At least those doing the islander dances are authentic. Is the haka a maori challenge? Are all the kiwis maori now? I thought they were scottish. The points made by other posters are true. The haka is both a device to promote brand all-black and to give them a psychological advantage.

by Davie Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:12 pm

GG got a permanent ban I think. Not sure why

by Guest Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:44 pm

Davie wrote:GG got a permanent ban I think. Not sure why

I think we need a 'banned list' with reasons for bannings. It could be a bit like the 'heads on poles' custom to warn off potential house rule transgressors.

by greybeard Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:45 pm

Gatts wrote:thegreyghost has been all over Tom Fordyce's BBC blog

I hope they were able to clean it up afterwards.

by Guest Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:48 pm

greybeard wrote:
Gatts wrote:thegreyghost has been all over Tom Fordyce's BBC blog

I hope they were able to clean it up afterwards.

606v2's loss is BBC's gain. Hang on, that's not right. Or is it? Headscratch

by Hood83 Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:53 pm

Ha, yes, here he is. Amazingly he STILL has not got over 2007 it seems. Haha

27.At 11:09 24th Oct 2011, thegreyghost wrote:
Woodcock, Mealamu, Franks, Thorn, Whitelock, Kaino, Read, McCaw, Weepu, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Kahui, Jane, Dagg.

Referee of the tournament: Joubert.

Worst Referee of the tournament: Wayne Barnes.

Pundit of the Tournmanet: Pienaar.

Worst Pundit of the Tourny: Laurence Dayglo for his incessant anti-NZ commentary during the final.

by mystiroakey Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:55 pm

Hood83 wrote:Ha, yes, here he is. Amazingly he STILL has not got over 2007 it seems. Haha

27.At 11:09 24th Oct 2011, thegreyghost wrote:
Woodcock, Mealamu, Franks, Thorn, Whitelock, Kaino, Read, McCaw, Weepu, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Kahui, Jane, Dagg.

Referee of the tournament: Joubert.

Worst Referee of the tournament: Wayne Barnes.

Pundit of the Tournmanet: Pienaar.

Worst Pundit of the Tourny: Laurence Dayglo for his incessant anti-NZ commentary during the final.

lol mods let him back in- go on

by greybeard Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:55 pm

Well, let's show him how it's done and move on from him, eh?

by Guest Tue 25 Oct 2011, 8:58 pm

He's probably reading this right now.

In fact he's probably right behind you ghost

by Hood83 Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:02 pm

Hahahaha, i've just read on. GG slags off all the NH teams, including France (gracious in victory as expected) and then says:

"Overall, the world cup has turned up a refereeing star in Craig Joubert. Consistent. Composed. Communicates well, without the Nigel Owens style continuous commentary and pseudo coaching. I know there are a lot of very bitter, disappointed British fans out there who are upset than NZ proved them wrong on their "choking" cliche. But finally you see what NZ are capable of when we're not shackled by poor referees like Wayne Barnes."

He really does have a victim complex. If he was kicked off, i invite you to check out the blog. He really only has himself to blame.

Back on the IRB - A proposal to pay half would be a classy NZRU move and go down well, particularly given the class France in insisting the ABs wore black.

by Hood83 Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:03 pm

greybeard wrote:Well, let's show him how it's done and move on from him, eh?

Sorry, fair point!

by Gatts Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:09 pm

greybeard wrote:Well, let's show him how it's done and move on from him, eh?

nope, gg was the gift that kept on giving, quality wum, knows his topic, often incisive and always somehwat amusing

by Guest Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:11 pm

Gatts wrote:
greybeard wrote:Well, let's show him how it's done and move on from him, eh?

nope, gg was the gift that kept on giving, quality wum, knows his topic, often incisive and always somehwat amusing

Thing is, he's probably a nice chap. Just never should have been taught how to use a computer.

by PJHolybloke Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:17 pm

Well I miss him Very Happy

TGG is just an arch wum and if you ever let him see a chink in your armour, you're having both barrels.

He's probably got the most deadpan delivery of dry mischievious humour I've ever come across, shame really.....

OK, I'm over it now.

by Portnoy Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:28 pm

I have PMed Hobo re:GG's current status.

If I go into WHS I can chose to buy the Star or Daily Sport or The Telegraph or The Beano or Private Eye.

But I still have the overwhelming choice not to buy.

Plenty of people have chosen not to engage with me - and that is perfectly reasonable.

So what makes GG a special case - you treat his posts seriously (and sometimes they have a great validity) or you dismiss them.

by unebrindille Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:39 pm

Back to the subjet.

YES France will pay.... because French heads of rugby are no better than IRB pundits (we call them : les pardessus - the cloaks) but high suggestions amongst French fan to organize a "hakathon", get the money and pay 3 or 4 times the fine as a down payment for next times

Spoiler:

by PJHolybloke Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:42 pm

unebrindille wrote:Back to the subjet.

YES France will pay.... because French heads of rugby are no better than IRB pundits (we call them : les pardessus - the cloaks) but high suggestions amongst French fan to organize a "hakathon", get the money and pay 3 or 4 times the fine as a down payment for next times.
Spoiler:

Love the emoticon - where can I get one?

by Gatts Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:44 pm

OMG why the feck don't we have one of these

by mystiroakey Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:45 pm

like the moonie lol

by unebrindille Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:49 pm

Sorry mates. The forum does not allow me to give you the link.

by greybeard Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:50 pm

Portnoy wrote:I have PMed Hobo re:GG's current status.

If I go into WHS I can chose to buy the Star or Daily Sport or The Telegraph or The Beano or Private Eye.

But I still have the overwhelming choice not to buy.

Plenty of people have chosen not to engage with me - and that is perfectly reasonable.

So what makes GG a special case - you treat his posts seriously (and sometimes they have a great validity) or you dismiss them.

Maybe his knowledge that repeatedly breaking the house rules would get him banned, yet he still did it?

Only himself to blame.

by PJHolybloke Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:53 pm

Portnoy wrote:I have PMed Hobo re:GG's current status.

If I go into WHS I can chose to buy the Star or Daily Sport or The Telegraph or The Beano or Private Eye.

But I still have the overwhelming choice not to buy.

Plenty of people have chosen not to engage with me - and that is perfectly reasonable.

So what makes GG a special case - you treat his posts seriously (and sometimes they have a great validity) or you dismiss them.

I'm with you Portnoy (Beano everytime BTW), it's supposed to be an exchange of personal opinion and an opportunity to question, challenge and stimulate debate, there's no obligation to get involved with anyone on here if you don't want to, if you choose to - you gets what's coming.

If TGG has been banned for repeated personal abuse it would be fair enough, but I've only ever "experienced" that once off TGG and it really wasn't worth fussing over, if he's been banned for repeatedly challenging behaviour it's a different matter, the world needs unreasonable and challenging people in it (even if they're a little repetetive) otherwise we'd never change anything.

by PJHolybloke Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:55 pm

unebrindille wrote:Sorry mates. The forum does not allow me to give you the link.

Storm the forum!!!

Rise up brothers, down with eating cake - I want a moonie emoticon and I want it now. Follow me! Run

by PJHolybloke Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:56 pm

Hobo's bigger than he looks - maybe we should negotiate?

by Gatts Tue 25 Oct 2011, 9:57 pm

OCCUPY 606V2

I will do the FB page

We are here to stay you ethernet commie bastuds

give us our butt!

by PJHolybloke Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:11 pm

Yeah! Solidarity brother Gatts - we want butt! Shocked

by Portnoy Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:14 pm

My PM stubbornly remains in my outbox. It reads:

RU: Grey Ghost

From Portnoy To Adam D (Hobo), Today at 9:10 pm
Is it true that he's been permanently banned? And if so, is there a published explanation?

Portnoy

Perhaps someone could forward it to another Founder/Admin/Mod for confirmation

by PJHolybloke Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:16 pm

Portnoy wrote:My PM stubbornly remains in my outbox. It reads:

RU: Grey Ghost

From Portnoy To Adam D (Hobo), Today at 9:10 pm
Is it true that he's been permanently banned? And if so, is there a published explanation?

Portnoy

Perhaps someone could forward it to another Creator?/Admin/Mod for confirmation

On it.

by Gatts Tue 25 Oct 2011, 10:18 pm

PJHolybloke wrote:Yeah! Solidarity brother Gatts - we want butt!

yours must be quite damp

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