Latest IRB lunacy

First topic message reminder :

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyWorldCup2011/France-fined-for-haka-breach-20111024

Now I really miss that facepalm emoticon.

Every New Zealander I've discussed it with loved the French haka response. So please don't blame us for this one guys.

Portnoy wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Have to say the Welsh one is my favourite, but the French on on Sunday morning topped it for me, was a spine tingling start to the game.

What the IRB have done here is make themselves look incredibly stupid and as if they are favouring New Zealand. What the NZRU need to do, if in fact this 10 metre ruling is nothing to do with them, is come out now and publicly say that they support France and do not feel that they should be fined and that their response to the Haka was perfectly alright.

Especially as the French waived their right to play in Blue,

arr i never understood that waving home colours thing- i kept saying whats the point, etc. Now i get it, it was all about the white arrow- good overcoming evil and stuff- the french are deep thinkers. it was all a ploy

No let them perform their "war dance" challenge and we will respond in the traditional way. We will stand to attention on the 10m line as ordered and then when Ali Williams finishes his pronstar facial contortions(sorry but he's just reduclious) we shall respond by a volley of musket fire and the unarmed natives. We've been doing that a lot longer!!

Knackeredknees wrote:... we shall respond by a volley of musket fire and the unarmed natives. We've been doing that a lot longer!!

True. There's a reason the Maori re-invented* trench warfare. They only lost the Land Wars because they were outnumbered. At the same time the Maori were shooting at the red coats from earthworks the Yanks & Confederates were shooting each other to bits on open battlefields.


*Not bad considering no-one had told them about Roman fighting methods

I wonder if the IRB are all looking for a job with the RFU...after this cr@p they would obviously ft in well


respect the haka - yes-react however you wish - yes

Best reaction - by Wales thin red line when they refused to move first

I might get slated as extreme for this but I see the IRB's stance regarding the Haka as an increasing invasion on civil rights. That a team isn't allowed to do anything other than stand stock still and watch when confronted with 22 men trying to scare the poo out of them is beyond describable, especially on as big a stage as yesterday's game.

I personally love the Haka and hope every time to see it performed with passion and ferocity but it's not as if NZ have to put up with responses often. Wasn't the French arrowhead and march the first and only time this WC? Every side to have faced the AB's is very respectful and understanding of its value and tradition and only respond when they want to get fired up to a winning capacity. NZ are allowed to do so every time, why shouldn't other sides have the same rights?

The IRB are besmirching the Haka's reputation by surrounding it with this intolerant set of rules.

huge facepalm!

speechless

LondonTiger wrote:

dummy_half wrote:Well, next time the ABs play at Twickenham, we should meet the challenge with the traditinoal response of an English rubgy player -

Who provides the dwarves, blondes and ferries?

LT
I think once Tindall's retired, he can use his Royal status to commandeer as many dwarves and blondes as needed. Ferries might be an issue, but maybe HMS Ark Royal could substitute.

you know the haka is only under scrutiny because the fecking IRB keep making a monkey out of how teams MUST react to it. As it's own entity it is rugby folklore and must not be tinkerered with, by legislating how teams react that is exactly what the IRB is doing and in this way it is empire building in the most heinous colonial way.

I can just imagine it is a tongan beach in 1792, the sun is rising and two tribes of fierce PI warriors fronting each other up in the sand, performing their pre war ritual haka to each other......just before the festivities begin and the metal meets the meat, in steps Sir Cuthbert Digby Frottage representing the IRB and interrupts proceedings:

i'm terribly sorry chaps the Queen states you must not throw spears at each other now be jolly fellows and fork off and go and learn cross stitch. Thanks awfully.

Fecking IRB wonkers

"i'm terribly sorry chaps the Queen states you must not throw spears at
each other now be jolly fellows and fork off and go and learn cross
stitch. Thanks awfully."

what the heck has the queen got to do with this?

" IRB is doing and in this way it is empire building in the most heinous colonial way."

again what are you on about- colonial??

your confusing

gatts just to be clear the irb are protecting there prize asset from being even slightly ridiculed. thats it

The legion of things that confuse you about rugby and it's history, it's significance to the PI nations and the meaning of the haka and the role of the IRB would take me an eternity to explain.

I don't have either the time or inclination, by all means remain confused.

no gatts the subject isnt confusing- you are.

the irb are not a version of the monarchy from years ago. they are there own doing and protect the kiwis whenever they can. Alkl you have done since you came on tonight is talk about england in every post- Its confusing to me why you are so interested in england and why you need to be so dramatic.

The traditional Welsh response, the two fingered salute. Although originally used against French Knights (these are the two fingers I will use to kill you) I think it's culturally valid as a historical pre hostility challenge. Also I think you'll find that it was the Scotts that bared their arses in similar circumstances.

Seriously the "throat slitting" has to go, has to. There is no room for that in modern sport.

Bring back Campese

Trench warfare invented by Maori's er? no, i really don't think so !!

Romans had this style of fighting, as did the Muslim followers of Muhammed in the7th century, so, interesting but not correct!!

Ozzy3213 wrote:Have to say the Welsh one is my favourite, but the French on on Sunday morning topped it for me, was a spine tingling start to the game.

What the IRB have done here is make themselves look incredibly stupid and as if they are favouring New Zealand. What the NZRU need to do, if in fact this 10 metre ruling is nothing to do with them, is come out now and publicly say that they support France and do not feel that they should be fined and that their response to the Haka was perfectly alright.

I was about to type pretty much the same thing.

The Haka of any specific PI nation is a unique tradition allowed in the sport, it's not allowed in the many other sports NZ competes in.

It was always something the kiwis did when touring, until the first world cup.

When they toured, the had to be invited to perform a haka, they did not have any rights to do it.

Of course we all want to see it, but it is a challenge and should be met as such.

The IRB are off the planet, far out of touch with the fans.

I loved the way Wales refused to move after the haka in Cardiff, because as Ryan jones said to the ref, "you tell them to move, it's our pitch!"..! Or Bryan terfyl singing Cwm Rhondda On the pitch after the haka...

I loved Richard cockeril getting up in the kiwis faces during a haka at twickenham. I thought the French response was magnificent.

That makes it an occasion.

The ffr should refuse to pay...!

english warrior wrote:Trench warfare invented by Maori's er? no, i really don't think so !!

Romans had this style of fighting, as did the Muslim followers of Muhammed in the7th century, so, interesting but not correct!!

If you'd read my post correctly, I said "re-invented" and specifically mentioned the Romans. Don't let your dislike of NZ lower the blinkers too far.

That really is silly by the IRB. The money isnt a big deal, but maybe the NZRU could offer to pay the fines as a gesture that they didn't expect the French to stand still and scratch their dates.

The Aussie Women's team were fined at the women's RWC last year for getting closer than ten meters to the kiwis haka...!

maestegmafia wrote:The Aussie Women's team were fined at the women's RWC last year for getting closer than ten meters to the kiwis haka...!

nooo, dont tell me the women do a haka- the shame.

Just further proof that NZ get special treatment in the world of rugby. Is it any surprise Joubert reffed France out of the final.

Also Aparently NZ advanced further than the agreed distance too. Will they be fined?

I think fining the French for adding a little something to the match is senseless. I have always enjoyed the traditional Haka. Still gets me the same way it did when I was a kid. Grand tradition. Fantastic. And when a team actually responds, its a great bonus. My personal favourite was the Welsh one. The IRB, or whomever, should simply stay out of this.

But, as I have said before, the only proper response to the throat slashing one is to walk straight up and punch them square in the nose.

Report them for assault.

Should nonu get fined for doing the.throat slitting move as well as that is banned.

Portnoy wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:What the NZRU need to do, if in fact this 10 metre ruling is nothing to do with them, is come out now and publicly say that they support France and do not feel that they should be fined and that their response to the Haka was perfectly alright.

Especially as the French waived their right to play in Blue,

I agree with that.

The IRB must fine France there was an edict issued advising the teams what the permitted parameters were and france ignored them.
Or Then again they could show France the same understanding and leniency that they showed the players that wore OPRO mouthguards.

maestegmafia wrote:I loved the way Wales refused to move after the haka in Cardiff, because as Ryan jones said to the ref, "you tell them to move, it's our pitch!"..! Or Bryan terfyl singing Cwm Rhondda On the pitch after the haka...

You've got to love Bryan Terfyl, the famous castrato and brother of Bryn Terfel.

So the French got a 10 000 pound fine.

If I were them I would not pay it.

If I were the NZRU, I would offer to pay half, this way NZRU can make a powerful statement about how they feel the IRB is overreacting.

Bext time let the NZRU make a complaint if they wish to do so.

What the IRB is doing here by all accounts is to decide for the NZRU what is acceptable response and what not.

Ultimately it is only New Zealand's image that is being dmamaged by the IRB.

Biltong
We paid Tuilagi's for the mouthguard...What do you think we're made of money?

Laurie, I am only suggesting it. The IRB is only embarressing NZ, every time there is a citing about how a team responded to the Haka, it is the new zealanders that cop the negative reaction.


The only way this will be solved is for NZRU to make a statement, and I can't think of any better way than publically humiliating the IRB by offering to pay half the fine.

By the way, NZ economy made a good amount on this RWC, I understand it was roughly 750 million dollars, and a long term effect of about 2 billion dollars.

biltongbek wrote:
By the way, NZ economy made a good amount on this RWC, I understand it was roughly 750 million dollars, and a long term effect of about 2 billion dollars.

Hadn't seen that figure before Biltong, interesting. I must drop some former colleagues a line, they probably used the tourism economic impact model I created 10 years ago to crunch the numbers. Annual tourism to NZ provides (from memory) ~ $7bn directly (excluding the long-term benefits) to the economy, so a 10% boots on that isn't bad.

yes good call Biltong,
If the situation wasnt so crazy,as in the IRB being so far out of touch with their core market,then it would be funny.
What I was getting at (above) was the IRB dug a hole for them selves by being so big and tough over fining the guys for wearing the unauthorised mouthguards that they left them selves with no room to manoeauvre when this issue came along.

Not sure if this makes the IRB look like bumbling idiots making a mockery of the game or an authoritarian dictatorship pandering to the perceived wishes of NZ, I say perceived as I suspect that most NZ'ers will have no problem with what France did.

The Haka is a challenge and if NZ are allowed to put down the challenge then the other team should be allowed to meet that challenge be it by advancing, refusing to move or God help us by having a fat bloke who cant even sing very well advancing towards the All Blacks singing and wearing a Rugby shirt two sizes too small for him. That showed em that did!

aucklandlaurie wrote: yes good call Biltong,
If the situation wasnt so crazy,as in the IRB being so far out of touch with their core market,then it would be funny.
What I was getting at (above) was the IRB dug a hole for them selves by being so big and tough over fining the guys for wearing the unauthorised mouthguards that they left them selves with no room to manoeauvre when this issue came along.

Nonsense, pure nonsense. If you don't realise that the problem is they lurch from one ad hoc decision to the next, trying to micromanage everything, you're as mad as they are!

Can someone please explain why NZ aren't getting fined too as they also advanced past the agreed distance (not just in this game) or why the throat slitters aren't going to be fined.

Can anyone explain why Joubert was completely biased towards NZ?

I can NZRU has too much influence on world rugby. The rugby world owes NZ a big debt of gratitude is a very common theme in rugby. Even playing field please.

AB's team manager Darren Shand has criticised the French fine http://www.rugbyweek.com/news/article.asp?id=32609&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

LB, if you could explain how a relatively poor nation with just 2 votes on the IRB (the same number as Ireland) manages to have such a major influence the conspiracy theory might be a bit more plausible.

kiwi,

I think its all a load of horse (well you know what) but when the Blacks clearly advanced within the prescribed distance as well you can see where the hostility is coming from.

As I said previously, I love the Haka and if it was banned then it would be a huge loss IMO BUT stuff like this only adds fuel to the 'ban it, gives them an advantage' brigade who want to see it gone.

Just stop the Haka. It's getting in the way of the rugby anyway.

Adidas might get upset and not sell as many shirts but it's about time this absurd marketing dance was removed from the pre-match time.

Kiwireddevil wrote:AB's team manager Darren Shand has criticised the French fine http://www.rugbyweek.com/news/article.asp?id=32609&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

LB, if you could explain how a relatively poor nation with just 2 votes on the IRB (the same number as Ireland) manages to have such a major influence the conspiracy theory might be a bit more plausible.

Brave Darren Shand

Bravo Monsieur

I loved the haka response. Though France should have linked arms straight away instead of holding hands. Looked pretty girly for half a second.

No contact but do what you want. That'd be my rule.

I think the Haka is fantastic and I loved the French response. It showed b*lls, class and respect.

The IRB need to get a grip. They should be paying France's expenses for wasting their time by turning up to a match were the officials were only ever going to allow one outcome.

Darren Shand, I salute you

disneychilly wrote:I loved the haka response. Though France should have linked arms straight away instead of holding hands. Looked pretty girly for half a second.

No contact but do what you want. That'd be my rule.

That is what made it so cool and unexpected. Only the french would hold hands.

If that was the Boks (thanks Bruce), they would be holding their privates.

[quote="biltongbek"]

disneychilly wrote:If that was the Boks (thanks Bruce), they would be holding their privates.

Each other's privates?!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

biltongbek wrote:If that was the Boks (thanks Bruce), they would be holding their privates.

Each other's privates?!

Ag, sies man.

Graham Henry has that much in his pocket.

NZRU should pay this on behalf of France if they loved the gesture so much.

Can any New Zealanders tell me whether the haka is actually a war dance? This seems to be the general view (and wikipedia says so) of what it is, but I remember reading somewhere that it isn't strictly true.

I only ask, because I was thinking about France's fine for approaching it, and thought "if it actually is a war dance, why on earth should any respect be shown to it at all?" Surely that's not an aspect of society we want to be celebrating...

tomathy wrote:Can any New Zealanders tell me whether the haka is actually a war dance? This seems to be the general view (and wikipedia says so) of what it is, but I remember reading somewhere that it isn't strictly true.

I only ask, because I was thinking about France's fine for approaching it, and thought "if it actually is a war dance, why on earth should any respect be shown to it at all?" Surely that's not an aspect of society we want to be celebrating...

It's a challenge. It can be used before battle, or as a greeting when members of another tribe visit one's village. Basically something like "We're here, we're ready for you be you friend or foe".

The words to Ka Mate are a poem written by the 19th century chief Te Rauparaha (at one point he controlled most of the lower North Island and much of the South) describing his escape from enemies.

While Kapa o pango translates as

"Kapa o Pango" Kapa o Pango kia whakawhenua au i ahau! All Blacks, let me become one with the land
Hī aue, hī!
Ko Aotearoa e ngunguru nei! This is our land that rumbles
Au, au, aue hā! It’s my time! It’s my moment!
Ko Kapa o Pango e ngunguru nei! This defines us as the All Blacks
Au, au, aue hā! It’s my time! It’s my moment!
I āhahā!
Ka tū te ihiihi Our dominance
Ka tū te wanawana Our supremacy will triumph
Ki runga ki te rangi e tū iho nei, tū iho nei, hī! And be placed on high
Ponga rā! Silver fern!
Kapa o Pango, aue hī! All Blacks!
Ponga rā! Silver fern!
Kapa o Pango, aue hī, hā! All Blacks!

the haka is a mauri thing- it means what ever they want it to at any given time- it is a war dance, or just a dance, its a welcome dance, its a dance to signify improtance. I dunno , why did we morris dance i suppose i dont get that either, why did the scotsmen wear dresses. What has happened is that now we only really associate the haka with rugby, it has nothing to do with rugby whatso ever , it is only a mauri tradition, make of it what you will.