All Out Cricket's Discussion Of The Week – Which England Players Are Fearing The Axe?

On www.alloutcricket.com today, All Out Cricket's web editor Jo Harman discusses which England players might be fearing the axe after a dismal tour of India.

Very few have covered themselves in glory on tour but Jo's picked out three that have more reason than most to be looking over their shoulders after a disappointing series to date.

Check out the article and let us know your thoughts. Have England's selectors got it wrong? Or are we being too harsh on a group of players that are in need of a rest at the end of a long season?

The article can be viewed at All Out Cricket's website.

Evening

An interesting topic, given our recent struggles. Firstly I'll give my views on the three that Jo Harman has identified, before highlighting other possibilities. Incidentally, I agree with two of the three picks.

I'll start with Kieswetter. In my mind, he is good enough to succeed at international level, and I'd say that rather than 'show glimpses' he actually does well regularly, with the negative side being that he often gets starts and looks good before getting out. Take the 4th ODI for example, he looked fantastic but then after reaching 29 (I think) he was very unlucky to get one that kept low - nothing that can be done about that. In general though, I like Kieswetter. He provides a very attacking option in the powerplay overs, always backs himself to find the boundary or hit the big shot, and entertains too. I'd keep him and persevere with him, he is also only a young lad. Bairstow hasn't excelled with the bat at all, and at this moment doesn't look as adept to international cricket as Kieswetter does. He is a big hitter, however, so may be worth persisting with. FoF Verdict: Kieswetter stays.

Moving on to Bopara. Ravi, whilst undoubtedly being a talented batsman, just seems to have something missing at international level. Whether that be a failing in his technique, or purely mental, I'm not so sure at this moment in time. He is much the same as Kieswetter in that he is liable to get a start and then get out after looking set, however there are two reasons why I find this more acceptable for Craig. 1) He is opening the innings with the license to hit out, meaning he is likely to be more susceptible to losing his wicket. 2) Kieswetter at least scores those runs at a run a ball or greater. Ravi tends to score at a pretty slow rate, regardless of whether we are chasing or batting first. He doesn't seem to have the ability to put his foot on the gas and really accelerate at crucial moments. Dropping Ravi would mean we need to re-work the look of the side in order to find the right balance by means of a sixth bowling option, but this is something that the management are obviously paid to do. FoF Verdict: Bopara goes.

Jade Dernbach has impressed and disappointed in equal measure since making his England debut. In the T20's I have been impressed with his variations, which include a cracking slower ball (when used sparingly and wisely) and he is also gifted in that he can bowl at 90mph when he wants to. However, something hasn't quite clicked in the ODI format. For one, he seems to try and bowl too many slower balls. This has to be his surprise delivery, and at this moment the batsmen are seeing far too much of it. Also, when it goes wrong it can go badly wrong, resultig in a wide or even a six. His death bowling has also failed to impress. As previously mentioned, he certainly has the attributes to be a success at the death. Jade seems to have the wrong philosophy, however. If you look around world cricket over the last few years and pick out the finest death bowlers you will look at Brett Lee, Umar Gul and Lasith Malinga. The thing they all have in common? They all bowl 90mph+ yorkers - full, fast and straight. Invariably such deliveries are very difficult to hit for boundaries and result in wickets when batsmen are trying to hit out. Dernbach has the 90mph part in his arsenal, however he insists on bowling slower balls as his stock balls in these overs. By all means use the slower ball, but do it as a surprise in amongst the barrage of 90mph yorkers. Hopefully this will have been spotted by the coaching staff and is something that will be worked on. Dernbach is a player that I'd take out of the firing line for now, but he certainly has a future for England in ODI's if he can iron out the aforementioned inconsistencies. His confidence will likely be at an all time low after these ODI's, and I'd give him the last game but then take him out of the firing line for our next series while he works on a few things. FoF Verdict: Dernbach goes (temporarily).

Overall, whilst it isn't something I want to consider I must admit doubts are starting to creep in about Cook as captain. His captaincy itself doesn't seem too bad, but it is the fact that he has to be picked which presents a problem. I worry that against the better attacks he just doesn't have the natural shot selection and stroke making game for the shorter formats and will often get out early trying to force the pace. I'd actually like to see Pietersen open again, where he had looked effective in the World Cup, and alongside Kieswetter this would be a very aggressive and dominating opening pair. With Trott coming in at 3 to steady the ship, it is something I'd consider. Obviously, with Cook as captain that can't happen, hence my doubts.

Another player I'd like to see in is Ian Bell. Bell is, technically, the best batsman in England. He has all the shots, the timing and these days the mentality to be a success. He hasn't set the world alight in one day cricket to date, but I'm confident he could perform. I'd probably go with Bell in Bopara's place, and one thing we should remember is that Ian is actually a very decent medium pacer, so with some practice he could fulfill the role of the extra seam option for some bits and pieces overs if necessary.

Patel is one I'm not sure about. He had a cracking knock just last week, but his bowling on the whole has been a disappointment, and to me he just smacks of a 'bits and pieces' cricketer, a utility man that doesn't really specialise in anything. Without a genuine high quality all-rounder to call upon our hand is almost forced in this case, but it is something we really could do with.

My only other concern is Bresnan, though I'd put his recent performances down to being jaded after a lot of cricket (which is why I was against this tour in the first place).

Craig Kieswetter: I am a big fan of Craig's. As a Somerset fan, I have watched him bat a lot and have taken an interest in his career as it has progressed. He is a young man with plenty of potential. His shot making ability is a beautiful sight and he has what a lot of English ODI batsman lack, which is the ability to hit a good ball for six. He started his career with a flourish with a century in his third ODI against Bangladesh in Bangladesh, which is not an easy place to start your career for a man who prefers pace on the ball. He then had his struggles against Australia and their raw pace attack which led to him being dropped from the England side. This led to questions about his ability against the very best bowling, but let us not forget this man was crucial to us winning the T20 World Cup and he was man of the match and top scored in the final, so he has got something. Since his return to ODI fold he has been solid, if unspectacular. He constantly gets to 30/40 before getting out, and whilst this is a problem, it is a problem that can be addressed. He is not getting single figure scores at least. I also feel that he has gelled with Cook and the top of the order and I feel as an opening partnership they compliment each other nicely. As for his wicketkeeping, there is no doubt that he was made some mistakes on this tour of India, but the raw athleticism is there, dare I say it he is more athletic than Prior as a keeper, and look what quality of keeper Prior has become. So with some work with Bruce French he can become a good keeper and an explosive batsman. Just needs to turn those 40's into 70's or 80's.

JD's Verdict: Kieswetter stays.




Ravi Bopara: The conundrum that is Ravi. It has been said for years that he is an incredibly gifted batsman. He has won matches, or got England damn close in the past (India in England at Old Trafford, 07 and Sri Lanka with Nixon in the WC) so he must have some ability to deal with pressure. In and out of both test and ODI side over the past few years may have dented his confidence a little though. He began to show signs of turning a corner against India in the summer, but seems to have regressed on this tour again so de we keep with him? I think yes. The other batsman we tarred with the "Most talented bat in England" was a young Ian Bell. There was debate about whether he should be in the Test side not long ago. There is no debate now. Is Ravi the ODI version of Bell? Maybe not, but I feel he deserves a bit longer to find out. This decisions is made easier by the lack of class alternatives in the wings who offer us the sixth bowler option that Ravi's cutters do.

JD's Verdict: Bopara stays for the summer, at least.




Jade Dernbach: And now for Surrey's, Jade Dernbach. When he burst on to the international scene he was lauded as a death bowling genius because he could bowl a slower ball. As a man who normally bowls at the death for his Saturday side, albeit at a much lower level than Jade, there is more to death bowling than having a slower ball. Some say variation is the key to death bowling, some say it is raw pace, others that it is having a good yorker. For me, it is none of those things although they are important. For me, the most crucial aspect is having a cricketing brain and knowing when to bowl your variations and not getting panicked by one four and knowing that your side is relying on you in a tight run chase. Dernbach has all the raw materials, he has the pace, he has the yorker and he has the slower ball he just needs to use them correctly. Go back to county cricket for a season Jade and think about your cricket some more. Learn that your stock ball should be the 90mph thundering yorker and the slower ball a change up, not the other way round. Dernbach will be England's key bowler in the next WC, but he isn't yet. Give him time and I think he will come good.

JD's Verdict: Dernbach gone for now. But he will be back better.




Other names: Let us start with some other guys, Ian Bell. He is the most naturally gifted player in the England squad, no doubt. Is he an ODI player? No, I don't think so. He has had numerous chances and never proven himself with the ability to score at over a run a ball consistently. He is a quality player of spin which may be useful in the sub continent, but he cannot be in the same top 4/5 as Cook and Trott. The run rate would just not do.

Now to the pie man (I mean his bowling, honest) Samit Patel. He has muddled through his England career never doing anything really exceptionally well or exceptionally badly. His knock the other day though was sublime and showed us that he has that string to his bow at international level. His bowling is innocuous but can be containing. Another player benefitting from the lack of a world class alternative.

And finally, young Jonny Bairstow. He has come in and showed some potential, and now he is struggling a bit. Rest him for this final game and give Jos Buttler a go please? He will be back better, I have no doubts about that, but Buttler deserves his shot.

JD's Verdict: - Bye bye Bell.
- Stay for a bit Samit.
- Just for while Jonny.

You make a good point about Kieswetter getting 30s/40s in ODI's. This isn't wholly unacceptable at all, given that it is scored at a decent rate, as if each of your top 6 did that then you'd have a pretty good platform, and you just need one to go on and get a biggie. Tests are a different matter in that it's important to go and and make it a big one, but ODI's 30-40 is fine by me, especially for someone playing with aggression and intent.

Bell would be a good pick if Cook wasn't playing, and KP and Kies opened as I mentioned, but that clearly isn't going to be the case, so we can shelve that idea!

as far as the three players highlighted

kieswetter - hes just not good enough imo. not saying hes a bad player and is fine in t20 but he just doesn't look comfortable whent heres any movement with the new ball and bear in mind hes been playing against 2 poor new ball attacks, he got dropped after being exposed by australia last summer and doesn't look to have improved. against better quality new ball attackes than sri lanka and india he will struggle again. hes only passed 50 5 times in ODIs and 2 of those were a ropey 100 against bangladesh when he could have been out 4 times before he got to 30 and a 60odd against scotland. we can do better than him opening imo and i dont see any point in persevering with him.

bopara - showed flashes of his talent in the home series but has been terribly disappointing again in inida, there just doesn't look to be any energy or intent when he comes to the wicket and a couple of good performances at home shouldn't be enough to save him when he has a poor record previously.

dernbach - has ability but has struggled at times when the pressure is on. still doesn't look to make good decisions about his variations. might be an idea to get him working with the coaches on this side of his game. he has been hard done to during his time in the england team i think tho, he came in with a reputation of being a specialist death bowler and has ended up having to try and adapt to the higher standards of international cricket whilst been asked to bowl most of the time in the pressure overs. usually you try to protect young players better when they first come into the team, he hasn't had that protection.

of the others where there are question marks. cook hasn't really shone as captain, i think hes used his bowlers poorly, hasn't really been effective in his field settings and definitely does not look to have full control of his players, cant imagine the same sort of behaviour if strauss had been around.

KP still hasn't made the big scores he should be making but showed good signs imo, he was staying still better at the crease and hitting straight or through the covers rather than trying to walk across the line and hit the ball through mid wicket all the time. done enough to keep his spot imo but still not cemented it.

by not playing while we are losing it gives the ian bell fan club an excuse to say everything would be better if he was in the team, theres nothing from a performance perspective to suggest that he would actually make a difference however and if cook, trott and KP are going to be in the side long term and morgan to return from injury then i just dont see where bell fits.

rich1uk wrote:as far as the three players highlighted

kieswetter - hes just not good enough imo. not saying hes a bad player and is fine in t20 but he just doesn't look comfortable whent heres any movement with the new ball and bear in mind hes been playing against 2 poor new ball attacks, he got dropped after being exposed by australia last summer and doesn't look to have improved. against better quality new ball attackes than sri lanka and india he will struggle again. hes only passed 50 5 times in ODIs and 2 of those were a ropey 100 against bangladesh when he could have been out 4 times before he got to 30 and a 60odd against scotland. we can do better than him opening imo and i dont see any point in persevering with him.

I'd take issue with your statement that he has played against poor new ball attacks. Praveen Kumar is actually a very crafty bowler, with unerring accuracy and does plenty through the air and off the pitch. Just because he bowls 80mph doesn't take anything away from him - he makes up for it in other areas.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kieswetter. He is a young lad with a fine domestic record, an ok international record and brings something different to the side, namely six hitting. Worth persevering with, for me.

For me, Kieswetter gets one more series to prove himself, but if he doesn't, either Bairstow should get the gloves or Davies come in to open.

so because one bowler in two teams has done ok that means kieswetter has done well against the new ball

he hasn't faced anyone this summer who bowls anything more than ~80mph

my point was more how is he going to do against new ball attacks like SA, aus and even pakistan who all have guys pushing 90mph when he cant handle the kumars

tbh you just said yourself he has an ok record , well imo ok isn't good enough, hes averaging under 30 and hasn't looked like hes any better now than he was when he got dropped last year

So who would you suggest replacing Kieswetter with rich?

He spanked the 90mph all over the park in the World T20...he hardly gets castled the moment he faces a fast bowler.

The fact is he failed in England against Australia because Brett Lee was bowling out of his skin with serious pace and movement. Not many young openers could pass that test with flying colours. Even Bollinger and Harris were on form during that series.

not sure hoggy tbh

kieswetter has been outplayed by both strauss and by cook in his time opening with them tho , both in terms of average and strikerate

he is more attacking in t20 than he is in ODIs where he tries to play "properly" and hes not technically good enough to do that imo. he will also have more fielders in catching positions for longer in ODIs so wont get away with some of the edges he does in t20s

saying he only struggled coz lee bowled well is not really a defence , next summer hes gonna be facing WI, Aus and SA as well as facing pakistan this winter albeit on pitches that wont really help fast bowling

i would be tempted to just slot someone like buttler in down the order and bump everyone else up a spot. we haven't been losing games in this recent series because of a slow early strikrate, we have been losing because of early wickets and altho kieswetter hasn't been the only one, his spot has to be one the areas we need to look at if we are gonna make the team better. i'm all for continuity and giving people a chance to establish themselves but when its patently obvious that he hasn't improved since his previous spell in the team then whats the point ?

1) Kieswetter is not a good WK. period
a less than best WK is likely to cost the team dearly.

someone called him a poor man's sehwag....and sehwag himsefl averages less than 30 in ODIs.
Kiestwetter could have held on if he was a Gilchirst with the bat which he is not.....his hit and miss batting....severely limited technique.... 1 in 10 games clicks with the bat......doesn't do him any favour either.
His very inclusion is symptomatic of Eng not having figured how to play ODIs.

2) Bopara......was never ever competent against international quality bowling. Another one of those that are too Good at FirstClass plain substandard internationally.

3) Patel......his few cracking innings notwithstanding......he is a bits n pieces player....and these days ( actually for nearly 5 years now) bits n pieces players don't win you anything in ODIs.

Is Patel good enough to bowl even 5 overs in an international game against quality opponents ??........No

is he good enough to play for Eng as a specialist batsman?......in the long run no. Then what's he doing in the side ?

4) Jade Daernbach.......his recent lack of rythm notwithstanding...he is quality !!...pace ( when he wants to) and guile....such talent his rare...he must be invested in.

5) Bairstow..a much cleaner and technically organized hitter than Kieswetter....haven't seen his wkt-keeping....but as a batsman he is miles ahead of Kesiwetter.

If I was selecting the Eng side...

--I would put Bell as an opener ( unbelievable he is not even in the 11) and let Bairstow keep wkts ( can't do worse than Keiswetter)

--not even consdier moving Swann out of the side. He is clever and a fighter

--bring back Daernbach....instead of that new kid who was also impressive in the last game

I don't understand how people can suggest that Bairstow stays in the side and keeps wicket? Kieswetter has done so much more with the bat in his international career than what Bairstow has, as young Jonny has had an awful tour in India bar his ton in the warm up game against an awful attack.

Absolutely agree, jdizzle.

Also, people question Kieswetter's keeping but Bairstow is hardly a faultless keeper himself. Kieswetter is the best of our wicket-keeper/batsmen at this moment in time (Davies is of similar ability but maybe not quite as destructive), obviously not including Prior who is the undisputed best in Tests.

Craig Kieswetter-As Rich said he hasnt improved at all and he has looked thoroughly out of depth against two medium paced swing bowlers (with due respect to Praveen) IN CONDITIONS THAT DONT HELP SWING BOWLING.So I cant even imagine how would it be against Lee,Bollinger,Steyn,Morkel,Gul,Riaz,Junaid,Roach,Rampaul in conditions that suit fast bowling(except against Pakistan this winter).No point persevering with him I am afraid.

Shanks' Verdict: Kieswetter goes

Ravi Bopara Sorry but this guy just doesnt cut it.He is a more gifted player than someone like Trott who is an immensely successful international batsman.So its frustrating to see Ravi not able to perform at international level.He has serious natural talent which is why he has got so many chances which other players would not have got.But there has to come a point where "enough is enough".Ravi impressed with a couple of really good knocks in the summer but that shouldnt be good enough to keep a player who has failed so many times.He needed to sustain that level of performance in India but it looks like normal service has resumed again.And given how little he has bowled for us in ODIs his bowling cant be too big a consideration particularly given his dodgy fielding.

Shanks' Verdict:Ravi goes


Jade Dernbach:He is a bowler who was picked to fill a specific void in England's bowling attackAnd whilst he hasnt exactly set the wordl alight he has shown glimpses of potential.He has got all the skills that you expect form a bowler in ODI cricket.The only thing is judgement.As has been said innumerous times,he must have a proper judgement of when to use his variations.He has got a 90 mph stock ball and he has a very good 90 mph yorker.These are the deliveries that should be used more often with the odd slower delivery thrown in as a surprise weapon.He has got skills for all surfaces,just needs to use them properly.i personally think he will learn far more from being around the England squad than in County Cricket.I personally would give him some more time in the England squad working with David Saker.

Shanks' Verdict:Dernbach stays/b]

Tim Bresnan:This might be a bit controversial but please respect my views guys.Everyone talks about Bell's poor ODI record compared to his Test record but no one talks about Bresnan.His ODI bowling record ia very disappointing IMO and he has played 56 ODIs.He has been given a fair chance.But he hasnt shown enough improvement.After the Ashes,I thought he had cracked it but whilst he was splendid in the Tests against India his ODI form during the same time has been inconsistent.Finn has done all the right things in his ODI career(even when his figures werent great he was brilliant).Bresnan's batting is a consideration but given how poor we have been at defending totals I would take the better bowler which IMO is Finn.
Some may Bresnan's economy rate is high because he bowls in the PPs and I agree with that but doesnt that give him a better chance of taking wickets but his S/R is appalling for a 50 over game.We dont have a credible fifth bowling option.So our first 4 bowlers have to be wicket takers.So I would take Finn over Bresnan.Its upto the batsmen to score the runs and ould be harsh to drop Finn because of Bresnan's batting particularly when you have Swann and Broad at 8 and 9.


[b]Shanks' Verdict:Bresnan in the squad but not in the XI

i dont understand how anyone who has ever watched kieswetter open and seen how uncomfortable he looks as soon as there is any movement and has an average of 28 and only 3 scores over 50 in his last 23 innings, could think he is good enough to open for england in international cricket

his career record is worse than KPs during the recent poor spell where he has been considered to be a liability, so KP at his worst is still better than kieswetter

Shanky - Kieswetter hasn't looked uncomfortable at all on this tour, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. He has got a lucky one that kept low in the last match, and a couple of others when he has been trying to force the pace...these things happen. He certainly hasn't failed in his technique though.

Rich - I see what you're saying, but maybe comparing him to KP is a bit unfair. KP is one of the greatest batsmen England have ever had, and is truly world class, so it is difficult to compare a young lad with not a huge amount of experience to him. We do need more runs from Kieswetter, but at least he is going about his role in the right way, playing shots, not playing for his averages and keeping a high strike rate in general.

i was a fan of kieswetter when he first came into the team and after his performances in the t20 side thought he should get an extended run in the ODI team however if you go look at his innings by innings record and breakdowns against the different teams it tells you all you need to know imo

against the best attack he has faced, the australia side we played last summer, he was horribly exposed by the new ball and scored 69 runs in 5 innings at an average of 13.8 and a sr of 70

against india in this reecent home and away series hes averaging 23 i think and with all respect the new ball bowling in this indian team is below par for an international side, before the series people were saying they maybe worried how he would do against spin , but he hasn't lasted long enough at the crease for the spinners to come on

the only century he made was away to bangladesh in his 3rd game and if you saw that innings you will remember he should have been out about 4 times before he even got to 30

so for me based both on a breakdown of his stats AND watching him bat, i think i have seen every innings he has played live on TV, he just doesn't make the grade as an international standard opener

Craig Kieswetter: Its a difficult on with kieswetter. He is in the side to be a pinch hitter and get us off to a flyer, and he isnt doing that. He is trying to play as a quality top order batsman and he isnt doing that. An average of 28 is poor to be honest. He seems to get starts but cant push on, and with the amount of wicket keepers around he could struggle to retain his place for the next series: CF'S VERDICT: kIESWETTER GOES (Bairstow to keep, buttler/Hales to come into the side)

Ravi Bopara: Ravi has had so many chances for england, and its apparent that he always seems nervous when he goes out to bat. Its apparent that he feels like he needs a score every game, but you have to play for the team (as an essex fan it pains me to critcise him lol) He only averages 29 with the bat, which is awful for a international batsman, and his bowling isnt good enough, for him to be classed as an allrounder. He is in the side to score runs, and wickets are a bonus. He isnt doing either of them on a regular basis:CF'S VERDICT: RAVI GOES

Jade Dernbach: I feel that the cricism of Dernbach is harsh, but im probably the only one who feels that. He has just come into the side, and was very good in england, and it was always gonna be a tough test for him in india. I must admit i thought he would be better in india, with his yorkers and slowerball varations proving very good. But he hasnt delivered. However i feel he should be given time, he is a young bowler, just settling into this side, and i feel he needs to be given a long run, to fully prove himself
CF VERDICT: DERNBACH STAYS

40 is seen as a good Test average, what then, is wrong with an average of 30 in ODI's? I'm not saying that is what we should be aiming for, but you have to remember these aren't Test matches and the same rules don't really apply.

Surprised in a lot of people saying Dernbach should stay. He is one for the future, but definitely needs to work on a few things (namely fast yorkers) away from the pressure of international cricket.

40 is seen as a bare minmum average in tests and 30 the same in ODIs imo

if you are below 30 then thats not good enough

and as i said before this is not just about stats, its about how he looks opening and looking at his weaknesses which will only be exposed more severely by teams with better new ball attacks

if there were signs he was improving then i would have no issue but there is nothing to suggest he is any better now than he was when he got dropped last year or that would give me hope of him being successful against the teams we are going to be playing over the next 12 months

He hit a pretty impressive 70-something the other week, did he not? That looked like improvement to my eyes.

He has had the starts, so facing the new ball isn't the issue, it's the going on to score a few more runs which is. He isn't in this team to be a regular century maker remember, he is just there to give us a bit of a flying start. If he then falls at 30 or 40 then he has done his job, in my view.

Agreed FoF, although (in the matches the matches they've played together) his strike rate is only marginally better than Cook's. Perception is a funny thing...

gotta disagree

making a quick 30 or 40 wins you nothing and just passes the buck onto the rest of the batsmen

he made that 72 against sri lanka 4 months ago when he had zero pressure on him after we bowled them out for 174, he was also outbatted by cook that day who comfortably outscored him

theres a big difference between looking comfortable against a new ball attack bowling at around 80mph to the prospect of facing steyn and morkel next year

Well it depends who you have to replace them , doesn't it?

None of the three have advanced their cause on this trip, that's for sure , but who takes their spots?
Dernbach won't stay in when Broad and Anderson are back , at least not as a regular.
But I think the jury is still out on Kieswetter and he'll have another home series to make or break him.
Bopara is tricky: yes he can indeed be said to have had enough chances and not really nailed them ,but the want of a serious sixth bowling option may save him for now. Short of recalling Collingwood I don't see an alternative...

Surely Anderson's ODI career is over? He's technically been 'rested', but can't see a route back into the side for him if they're looking to build for the next World Cup.

Rich, didn't he make a 70 something on this tour? Maybe I'm thinking of one of the warm-up games, in which case that doesn't count for a great lot.

AOC, I really don't know. Anderson has been expensive in the past in ODI's abroad, but when you look at the bare bones of it he is one of our most experienced bowlers, has great accuracy (though he would need to change his length from what he bowls in Tests) and is a genuine wicket taker to boot. Surely those are the ingredients we are looking for? Maybe he is worth another try.

Very much doubt they would discard Anderson...he can win ODIs as well as Tests , certainly in England.
He had to be rested for this tour but I'd be astonished if he isn't back for the ODIs next summer.
Though I expect a measure of rotation amongst all the bowlers in ODIs.

alfie, you say he had to be rested, but this is one of England's lightest international winters for years. As it is, Jimmy will be kicking his heels for three months. His ODI stats are solid, but not spectacular and he will be 33 in 2015. That's not to say he's not good enough to still be playing ODIs for England, but the signs are that England are easing him out.

I'd expect to see him back, too. Too good a bowler not to be in the side.

AOC, don't say things like Jimmy will be 33, it scares me to think of an England attack without Jimmy Anderson opening the bowling, he is so so vital to the side, haha.

Would be sad to see him go, but we reckon it's more down to others' performances than his own. If Dernbach and/or Meaker had made a mark in this series, we could have seen the last of Jimmy. As alfie says, we'll probably see him again next summer, but we reckon that England are looking to move on... as for AOC, we'll sit on the fence!

For my money, he is first pick when an ODI series is being played in England. He is an absolute master in his own conditions, doing things with the ball that 99.9% of bowlers could only dream of doing. I do agree that he is more suited to Test matches, but that isn't to say that he can't be successful in the shorter format.

Can totally understand the love for Jimmy, but his recent Test performances far outweigh his ODI achievements - in the last year, he's played 18 matches, taking 25 wickets at a shade under 35. Okay stats, but nothing eye-catching. 9 of these games were in England.

Anyway, we're going to open this up to AOC masses on Facebook... they'll almost certainly agree with you!

Resting Anderson was the right thing. he bowled all the way through the summer in England and the last WC showed us just how poor he can be when he's knackered. As it is, he'll be fresh for this winter's tough tours, which can only be a good thing. 25 wickets at a shad under 35 are pretty decent stats nowadays anyway, and I'd certainly have him in my first choice ODI line-up.

My first choice team
Cook
Kieswetter
Trott
KP
Morgan
two of Bopara/Stokes/Bairstow/Patel (probably Bairstow and Patel at the moment)
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn

Well, after a few minutes of monitoring Twitter and Facebook responses, it appears that the majority of our fans agree with the prevailing wind on this thread - Jimmy is a dead cert to start next summer (and probably during the winter)... watch this space!

So, who bowls with him? Finn? Broad? Bresnan? Swann? Talking of Swann, have you been surprised to see him struggle during this tour?

No, I think Swann is burnt out to be honest, and there were signs of it at the end of the English summer, too.

He is heavily relied upon in all forms for England, hence why this tour was horrendously timed for some of our more over-worked players.

I'd start Jimmy, Finn and Broad in both tests and ODIs. Think Finn has done enough on this tour to force his way into the team, and with his pace and height offers something a bit different. Not fussed about Swann, like FoF says, looks burnt out, hence why England gave Borthwick a go in the third ODI.

I do think Bairstow has shown he's not quite ready yet for this level, needs to hire a brain first...

I'm all for Finn playing in Tests, especially given that he has now added a yard of pace and seemingly learnt to control his accuracy. We would maybe miss Bresnan's lower order batting, though.

not really, Broad ans Swann at 8 and 9 is fine (it's what we do when Bres isn't playing) and Anderson and Finn can both hold the bat the right way up...

Is it bad that based on this series we should probably axe 8-9 players from our ODI side?

Gregers, that's a bit of over-kill mate, haha.

MFC, you make a fair point, Broad and Swann at 8 and 9 is more than acceptable, for some reason I had it in mind that they'd be 7 and 8!

lol im suprised no one has argued about my comment/post.

Performances of England players in the ODI series:

Batsmen:
Trott - avg 50, sr 80
KP - avg 42, sr 82
Kieswetter - avg 27, sr 101
Cook - avg 27, sr 85
Bopara - avg 16, sr 63
Bairstow - avg 12, sr 60
Bell - played only one match

Bowlers:
Finn - 8/253, avg 32, er 5.3
Swann - 2/191, avg 95, er 5.3
Bresnan - 5/245, avg 49, er 5.6
Meaker - 2/110, avg 55, er 5.8
S Patel - 4/182, avg 45, er 6.0
Bopara - 0/87, er 6.2
Dernbach - 1/168, er 6.5

It was collective failure, barring the two standouts - Finn & Trott.

All Out Cricket wrote:Surely Anderson's ODI career is over? He's technically been 'rested', but can't see a route back into the side for him if they're looking to build for the next World Cup.

Here's his figures in Australia.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;host=2;spanmin1=1+Jan+2000;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=bowling

He's at 12th in the ODI rankings ahead of Broad (27) and Bresnan (29).

This summer
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=bowling_average;spanmax1=20+Sep+2011;spanmin1=20+Jun+2011;spanval1=span;team=1;template=results;type=bowling

So, does anyone have any more they'd like to see replaced after another abject performance yesterday?

obviously dont think he should be replaced but very glad for swann that he now has a 10 week break before the next series starts

cant understand why bresnan didn't bowl the last over as well , wouldn't have made much difference but hes usually bowled at the end and had the best economy rate of all our bowlers yesterday

9 out of the 10 wickets gone to spin , and its not as if the ball was even spinning much. dont know if gooch was with the squad but whoever is the batting coach needs to address this.

rich1uk wrote:obviously dont think he should be replaced but very glad for swann that he now has a 10 week break before the next series starts

cant understand why bresnan didn't bowl the last over as well , wouldn't have made much difference but hes usually bowled at the end and had the best economy rate of all our bowlers yesterday

9 out of the 10 wickets gone to spin , and its not as if the ball was even spinning much. dont know if gooch was with the squad but whoever is the batting coach needs to address this.

Actually,2nd best in the end
Before that last over his economy was 3rd best(Patel was 2nd).
But I do agree that it was a no brainer that he should have been given the final over.Cook is such a genius isnt he

nope he bowled 9 overs for 36 that was the best economy rate yesterday

rich1uk wrote:nope he bowled 9 overs for 36 that was the best economy rate yesterday

I thought he went for 45.