Edinburgh v Leinster

First topic message reminder :

Big yawn, bit of a stretch, vigorously shake yourself like a dog getting out of a lake and brace yourself, we're back on track. RWC all done and dusted for another 4 years, lets get league-y.

Edinburgh, ah, what can we say about you? Some good results so far, some... not so good. A very good LBP in Ospreylia, a loss in Aironi and then a very comfortable win over Munster. It's all very negative. And by that I mean it's like a negative of a photo, everything's inverted and the wrong way 'round. Michael Bradley is like a knight in the life of Brian with no arms and a smile that said "tis but a scratch", all very head scratch-y.

Speaking of which, Leinster! A real Jekyll and Hyde season if ever there was one. The last two games have featured awful first half results and then a comfortable win. Not good enough. The young 'uns that have seen us this far will still be much needed for the rest of the league season as the internationals are slowly drip fed in their cryonic chambers that will only be opened during HEC weekends and Munster matches.

Form would suggest a home win, but form would also suggest neither have form.

As always, I'll update as teams are announced.

The beard stroking verdict: I dunno.

Referee: Leighton Hodges (WRU, 9th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Archie McInally (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner : John Kirk (SRU)
TMO: Iain Heard (SRU)

Live on BBC Alba

Why is Íosa nowhere to be seen!?!?

Isa has played most of the games so far this season. He is being given a rest before we head into a key 3 game part of the season.

You make a cromulent point sir.

I see that they have figured out that Mike Ross performs at a consistent (though somewhat slow moving) pace and that while he needs a good run of games to get up to match speed, once he has reached that level of performance, he is a perpetual motion machine.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:who do we reckon has the stronger bench guys?

I'd say Edinburgh, but more out of ignorance as to who the guys on the Leinster bench are (other than Strauss).

Gilchrist and Talei will bring impact off the bench for the Edinburgh forwards, and obviously Mike Blair and Jim Thompson in the backs.

FES-

Strauss is obviously a good player our two props less so.

Sykes is still unproven.

Ruddock is class but hasn't been playing as well as he can for the last month may now with a more solid tight 5.

Cooney is a weakness

Madigan is really stepping out of Sexton's shadow and his performances are improving a lot, the fact the tight 5 has been improved will only help him improve further

Carr has been playing pretty well and is lightening but not the greatest defender

funnyExiledScot wrote:That's not quite the team I was expecting.

I thought Ross Rennie would have come back in at 7 and that Talei would start in place of McInally, and as you say, surely Lee Jones is injured. If not Bradley should be sacked on the spot.

I'm disappointed that Paterson has come straight back in at 15. I'd have liked Thompson to play and for CP to have to earn his way back into the side. Thompson has played some decent stuff so far this season.

Leonard at 10 will be extremely interesting. Leonard at 10 and Scott at 12 is exactly what Scottish rugby needs to see - two young players in the key playmaking positions. Fingers crossed they come through in credit - nothing would please me more.

NDL back at 13 is also good. Now a wise old head for the youngsters to learn from.

Shame I won't get to see this live. In the new year I am revoking my "exiled" status though, so will hopefully get to more games.

Meant to ask, what happened to your 'funny' status?!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:who do we reckon has the stronger bench guys?

I'd say Edinburgh, but more out of ignorance as to who the guys on the Leinster bench are (other than Strauss).

Gilchrist and Talei will bring impact off the bench for the Edinburgh forwards, and obviously Mike Blair and Jim Thompson in the backs.

You could be right;

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Richardt Strauss (proven HC level performer)
17: Jack McGrath (a solid youngster from the academy, will hold his own but not an impact sub)
18: Nathan White (think he was captain of the losing NPC side in NZ end of last season - still only settling in)
19: Steven Sykes (badly damaged his knee in a preseason game against Saints I think - only getting back up to full speed, but S15 experience)
20: Rhys Ruddock (default captain when Cullen/Jenno/Heaslip ain't around - IMPACT player, great potential and still developing. I would think of him as a kind of younger Nathan Hines in tight quarters with a yard of pace ala Heaslip when needed)
21: John Cooney (too early to say -- but early enough for me to be disappointed so far)
22: Ian Madigan (good boot, bit small but good tackling technique usually, decent step and has some pace - can replace Sexton with 20-25 minutes to go)
23: Fionn Carr (speedster -- always near the top try scorer stats when he was with Connacht, starting to gel with the Leinster backline)

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Meant to ask, what happened to your 'funny' status?!

Frank Hadden happened, that's what.

Good luck with the move FES. Gutted I missed you chaps for the last drinking session. Hopefully there'll be another before you go and we get into mental December.

Can't blooming wait to see Leonard at 10. I had him down as a 12 but more than happy to see him at 10.

Not looking fwd to getting back to the Alba coverage again though.

Is the wee red button an option?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Meant to ask, what happened to your 'funny' status?!

Frank Hadden happened, that's what.

HAAaaaaa....

Any of the Edinuburgh lads able to give us a bit of a heads up on your new 10, what's the fella like as a player?

Pete, 19yrs old, former captain of Scotland U18, played for U20s in last season's 6Ns, spent 3 months in Christchurch in NZ on a scholarship from Apr-Jul, about 6'1" and 15stones, very highly thought of, etc. His partnership with 20yrd old matt Scott will be really interesting to watch, not because we're expecting them to blow everyone away, but it's not too difficult to imagine a 10-12-13 for Scotland in 5 yrs time of Leonard-Scott-Bennett - all exciting attacking players, big strong lads too

Edinburgh team:
15 Chris Paterson
14 Simon Webster
13 Nick de Luca
12 Matt Scott
11 Tim Visser
10 Harry Leonard
9 Greig Laidlaw
1 Allan Jacobsen
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Esteban Lozada
5 Steve Turnbull
6 Dave Denton
7 Roddy Grant
8 Stuart McInally
Substitutes
16 Steven Lawrie
17 Kyle Traynor
18 Lewis Niven
19 Grant Gilchrist
20 Netani Talei
21 Mike Blair
22 Jim Thompson
23 Tom Brown


How far removed from Edinburgh's Heineken Cup line up is this? Who else would be likely to come into the side and at the expense of who?

Thanks Aslong As,

What kinda player is he, is he a kicking 10 or a running 10 or somewhere in between? Good defence?

Pete, Let me post the alternatives alongside the team and then make a few comments:

15 Chris Paterson/Jim Thompson - horse for courses
14 Simon Webster/Lee Jones - LJ prob edges is for HC
13 Nick de Luca
12 Matt Scott/John Houston/James King - MS the most skilled of the 3
11 Tim Visser
10 Harry Leonard/Phil (good)Godman/Gregor Hunter/Greig Laidlaw - I would imagine that P(g)G would get the nod for HC, altho you could be tempted by Laidlaw
9 Greig Laidlaw/Mike Blair - much of a muchness imo
1 Allan Jacobsen
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Esteban Lozada/Grant Gilchrist - EL prob gets nod over youngster GG
5 Steve Turnbull
6 Dave Denton/Alan MacDonald/Sean Cox - I'd probably have DD at 8, which means AM plays blindside
7 Roddy Grant/Ross Rennie - RR every time
8 Stuart McInally/Dave Denton/Netani Talei - DD = future Scotland 8

My Embra Heino team in bold

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Thanks Aslong As,

What kinda player is he, is he a kicking 10 or a running 10 or somewhere in between? Good defence?

All round talent, Pete, just very raw

That last point is such a big plus as well. It's all too well being an exciting player that likes to run with ball in hand, but international rugby is a powerful old business and you need to be physical (something I suspect has counted heavily against Ben Cairns).

I just hope that Bradley has been doing the right things with Leonard and Scott this week. I hope their haven't been too scripted. I want to see them enjoy themselves, taking risks and having a real go at the Leinster defence. It would be very Scottish to ask an instinctively attacking player to adopt a conservative approach to the game. The reason Townsend was so good was that he consistently ignored his coaches.

cheers As, I shall watch intently tonight against Leinster and will be sending a report to mssrs Booth and Catt over the weekend!

Cheers guys very informative altogether.

Love playing the Scots and Scottish team, you guys are all so nice!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Cheers guys very informative altogether.

Love playing the Scots and Scottish team, you guys are all so nice!

That's Coz we are used to losing. Once again. A chilly night to be watching the burgh. Hip flask is full of laphroaig to keep me warm!

Radge - you're supposed to at least wait until the final whistle before drowning your sorrows!!

Nah he was right to get the sorrows drowned early. less pain

Are there any links around for this match?

Score?

Morgannwg wrote:Score?

Finished 28-36 to leinster

It was the experienced guys that lost that for edinburgh - poor discipline from Ford and talei. I thought our back row was immense though, especially denton. Young guys did very well too - assured game from Leonard and Scott. De Luca wad good too!

And what can you say about visser? Superb tries.

Fair play to leinster though - very professional win.

Need to improve discipline edinburgh!

What a brilliant game that was.

Leinster goodies to give away - https://www.606v2.com/t17177-canterbury-competition-exclusive-to-606v2

Agreed thought Denton looked v good for Embra and the youngsters at 10 & 12 looked very comfortable playing at this level.

Tim Visser is the best winger in the PRO12. FACT. He will light Scotland up.
TOP Celtic League try-scorer last 2 years running. Looks like he will do it again this season.
Een sterke, supersnelle, krachtige kerel. Oh ja.

Hope Ewmbra can hang on to him. The wolves will be circling

Gibson wrote:Tim Visser is the best winger in the PRO12. FACT. He will light Scotland up.
TOP Celtic League try-scorer last 2 years running. Looks like he will do it again this season.
Een sterke, supersnelle, krachtige kerel. Oh ja.

Hope Ewmbra can hang on to him. The wolves will be circling

There can be questions over his defence but sometimes you have to overlook weaknesses in a players game because his try scoring record is sensational. Scotland have a real attacking weapon there, does he qualify in time for the six nations or is it the summer?

val, think it's next summer

June 2012.

I thought this was an unreal game really exciting! Visser is somethig else, so hard to bring down doesn't look fast but really tears It up deceptively quick and deceptively stong.

Ford was poor. Thought laidlaw was pretty good and ur 10 showed up ok.

Leinster perspective: should have scored a few more tries wth the chances and breaks we made. Sexton was good, boss was very poor. Thought toner, Ryan and Fitzgerald played well for the most part, McFadden was good in defence but quiet in attack. Cronin has had better games as too Cullen and O'Malley

Pete, it seems to go one of two ways with returning internationalists - either they raise the game of those around them or they drop down several gears from what they are capable (didn't think Chunk was up to much either) and thought young Matty Scott was quiet at 12. Congrats on the result btw

Cheers man, murrayfield has been tough for us for the last 10yrs or so.

Is there any smaller stadium u cud use tho it's ridiculous using a not even half full murrayfield?

They're actively looking into it once again - this new crowd at the SRU recognised it as a significant problem, but no easy solution that;s for sure

Is Hibs ground - Easter Road, an option for Edinburgh? Cap 20,000. Firhill works well for Warriors. Scheduling, when sharing with a soccer club, can be a pain, but London Irish manage it at the Madjeski(Reading FC). Just takes serious planning and the will to do it. Something around the 10,000 capacity mark would make it so much better. But where? It must be easily accessible from the City.

It would make for a far better, or at least some - atmosphere. Let's be honest, going to Edinburgh for a PRO12 or HC game, is a major letdown. For Edinburgh especially.

Been over this time and time again - Easter road is even smaller pitch than firhill so is not an option. Plus it is in leith...

Murrayfield really is the only option until something new is built, which won't happen for a while.

To repeat a well discussed topic on these boards - I think temporary stands on the back pitches of murrayfield are the best option.

This has been discussed to death numerous times though!

Any ideas though RDW? Is there not an athletics ground (7/8k capacity) - near Edinburgh? Skuse ignorance, but just asking man.

BTW, that idea of the back pitches would work. Plenty of space and it is pretty much what Leinster did, in moving from a 7k cap. and limited Donnybrook to the RDS. They built 3 x temp stands. Cap. now 18.500. And will stretch to 20,000 when and as required.

Yes. That's the answer. It can be modified/upgraded. As long as the fans get up off their arses and go that is.

So why don't they do it?

Why? Incompetence. That and money!

Edinburgh used to play at meadowbank (used for commonwralth games in 86) and the place literally hasn't been updated since then and is literally falling apart. There is also a running track between the stand and pitch.

Decent venue but would need significant investment to get it back up to standard.

Other options, football grounds - pitches far too small plus they night not want to pour money down the drain to a football club while murrayfield is empty.

Then there's the club rugby grounds - largest capacity of around 2500, most of which is standing only. Also needing investment to get up to standard. Inverleith or goldenacre could possibly have an additional stand built though. Problem is that they are private school grounds which are used for school athletics in the spring.

So there really is no obvious option. The most likely would require significant investment, which the sru can't afford on their own!

So I may sound negative but, when you look at the facts, its the unfortunate truth!

RDW, It has to be Meadowbank, can't see any other option - Glasgow have set the trend with a move to Scotstoun, time for Edinburgh to follow. Get govt involved, multi-purpose stadium, scrap the ridiculous tram (what's the running total now and still nothing running?!)

Aslongas - its all so simple isn't it!

I really don't like the running track though - you'll be miles away in the stand.

Nah, its never simple, as we both know, but equally there's no cost to dreaming! Running track - further away, but hopefully better atmosphere for the numbers involved, shared cost, etc. - has to be an option?

Visser is already (joint) top of the current Robocop try scoring tables in this campaign with 5.

As our colleague Gibson points out, if he finishes top scorer again this season, then that'll be three seasons in a row. Has anyone ever come close to doing that before?

Although that won't stop half of the Jeff posters here questioning if he's even any good.

George Carlin wrote:Visser is already (joint) top of the current Robocop try scoring tables in this campaign with 5.

As our colleague Gibson points out, if he finishes top scorer again this season, then that'll be three seasons in a row. Has anyone ever come close to doing that before?

Although that won't stop half of the Jeff posters here questioning if he's even any good.

Well Visser did score 2 for the baa baas....

What saddens me most is the fact that only 3500 people saw that game live on Friday night. Granted it has been my 1st trip to Murrayfield since the new season started but living across the water from Edinburgh it's 35 quid for my train and ticket before I have even bought a Pint. The Irish provincial system is completely differant from the Scottish system. I seriously doubt Leinster or Munster would get as many fans if they were simply called Cork or Dublin. Because these regions encompass a wide area with many differant towns and citys to draw support from it's no surprise that they get bigger crowds.

I Support Edinburgh however I have no ties to the city whatsoever. I'm a Fifer (sadly) and only follow/Support Edinburgh rugby by default. Although many fans are not like that and have loyalty to their local club only. Hence why the Borders pro team failed. Rugby die hards followed the likes of Gala, Kelso, Melrose and Hawick.

A change in name to east of Scotland might help but I doubt it.

As for Stadiums.

Tynecastle : To small, the Jambos have to use Murrayfield when they play in Europe because their stadium is too small for UEFA football standards let alone rugby.

Easter Road : Too small and besides the pitch is terrible, it can barely survive a football season without turning into a dust bowl.

Meadow Bank : Acceptable in the 80s, A bit like Calvin Harris.

So Murrayfield is the only viable option. Stands out the back would be a good shout but I can understand where the SRU blazers are coming from. Why spend all that money on stands when you have an international class stadium lying there vaccant. Murmerings in the past have been to rennovate Meadowbank just like Glasgow did with Scotstoun. Allow people to sit in the Stand and if they are not close enough allow them to stand pitchside. Job done.

Proper post about the match now. Cracking game that either side could have won. Some simple defencive lapses cost Edinburgh the game. Although that is to be expected with a brand new midfield selection. In truth it was the normally reliable forwards that let the side down. Chunk, Ford and Cross although decent in the scrums did not get through their usual work in the loose. Perhaps a little still from the world cup. Scott had a quietish game at 12 but Leonard had a very good game as did Visser. Full credit to Leinster, they contributed to one of the best games I have seen in years.

I just think it's a horrible atmosphere tbh, and I'm sure it must translate to the players. Must be a ta demoralising. How much can temp stands cost? Works in the rds like a dream.

From a Leinster perspective I was prett pleased with most of it bu there was a lot that worried me.

Fringe defence was poor at times (concentration)
We made so many try scoring opportunities we just didn't finish (should of had 4tries or so)
Lineouts were dodge so many of Cronins throws were not straight
Our defence wasn't it's usual watertight self either.

That being said we created a lot of chances, some players really stood up and did well, our scrum wasn't great but was ok.
Plenty of positive foundations laid down