Glaws v Sarries

Teams are up for tomorrow evening’s game. Weather is scheduled to be dry and not too windy.

Glaws welcome back the final contingent of their World Cup players in the form of the rather notorious Tindall and Fuimaono-Sapolu. We also have just about the 2 fastest players in the Jeff on either wing, so the challenge is going to be stopping Burger, brown and Joubert and getting some quick ball to this back 3. I definitely feel Sarries will win the battle of the lineout as Glaws are sorely missing Brown’s technical nous, but on the other hand we now have a bulky boiler room in the form of James and Hamilton.

There is always a special atmosphere under the lights at Kingsholm and we’ll be wanting to put right the wrong of last week and from the semis last season, but Sarries are simply a very good side. They do the basics extremely well, but this time Glaws have Morgan back to handle the high ball! So I’m going for a Glaws win, but by less than a score (in fact on SportsGuru I’ve gone by 1 point!)

GLAWS
Olly Morgan; Charlie Sharples, Henry Trinder, Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu, Jonny May; Freddie Burns, Rory Lawson; Nick Wood, Darren Dawidiuk, Rupert Harden; Will James, Jim Hamilton; Alasdair Strokosch, Akapusi Qera, Luke Narraway (C)

Replacements:
Scott Lawson, Dan Murphy, Dario Chistolini, Tom Savage, Peter Buxton, Dave Lewis, Tim Taylor, Mike Tindall


SARRIES
Alex Goode; David Strettle, Owen Farrell, Brad Barritt, James Short; Charlie Hodgson, Neil de Kock; Rhys Gill, Schalk Brits, Carlos Nieto; Steve Borthwick (C), Mouritz Botha; Kelly Brown, Jacques Burger, Ernst Joubert

Replacements:
Jamie George, Deon Carstens, Matt Stevens, Hayden Smith, Andy Saull, Ben Spencer, Chris Wyles, Joe Maddock

Glaws certainly set up to run at pace through the backs HKC. I have embedded a link to this thread on the round 7 thread mate, hope that's ok with you?

Good idea Ozzy

Set the Sky Box to record! This should be a cracker.

Is this on SS or ESPN?

Sky

Excellent, I cancelled the ESPN subscription, so Sky was the answer I was most definitely looking for.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Excellent, I cancelled the ESPN subscription, so Sky was the answer I was most definitely looking for.

I've done the exact opposite, so maybe I was wrong!!

I've kept both as Tigers are on most weeks and I am normally playing whilst they are on the tv. ESPN coverage is far better but Sky have the HEC action.

What was the final score, the score was 11-9 to glaws when i had to go out. How did tindall go on?

Firstly, well played Sarries. That was an excellent performance. I've heard/read others complaining about Sarries cynical play, but I have a certain level of admiration for it and rather than call it cynical I'd call it clinical.

Secondly, Glaws are clearly incapable of taking a drop goal. That is the 2nd time we've lost to Sarries in 6 months where we were in a very good position to take a drop goal, yet were intent on running the ball.

Finally, I thought that was about as poor a refereeing display that I've seen. After that performance Wigglesworth will replace Spreadbury in our affections

The ref did make a couple of odd calls and the touch judges didn't seem particularly helpful. Didn't appear to really favour one side or the other but I did think the try looked like a knock on from Barritt, he seemed to lose the ball forward in contact.

Why was Burns taken off? He was playing well.

DaveM wrote:Why was Burns taken off? He was playing well.

He was injured. It looked like a calf strain, but I've not ehard how bad it is.

Couldn't understand why Trinder was taken off either, he had Farrell under pressure and was finding space with his pace. Tindall offered no such threat ball in hand though was a more meaty presence in defence.

what did Farrell do to cause Eliotas latest twitter rant?

Not clear from the newspaper article I saw, basically seems that he is annoyed by Farrell's cheap shot on Trinder and him gobbing off in the game. There was quite a lot of niggle in the game (understatement) and I saw Farrell and some of the Gloucester boys (not sure which ones) exchanging verbals in the second half so somewhere along the line EFS has got rubbed up the wrong way.

EFS clearly felt the need to vent about Farrell's attitude.

I heard that during a bit of verbals Farrell asked EFS if he would be tweeting about it later (although with stronger language clearly), nothing particularly unusual. Frankly if he was upset by that level of banter then I would hate to think he would have said if the likes of Regan had a go at him!

This was another very clinical win by Sarries, they do the have the knack of winning depsite not playing well, you certainly wouldnt bet against them making the final again.

Trinder did have a good game, but Tindall did have a good defensive game. The only disappointment is that we lost the game due to poor decisions in the last 10 minutes - this is where Tinds should have come to the fore. He only signed a 1 year deal last season and with Trinder and May doing fine jobs and Molenaar set to return I can see this being Tindall's last year with us. I would love for him to stay in a coaching capacity as there is no doubt he has a huge positive influence on the team.

On a completely seperate note, the match did show the humour of rugby supporters. It may not have been picked up on TV, but when Zara was on camera a chant sprung up of "you don't know what he's doing!" - classic!

Apparently, Farrell said "F*** off, tweet that you b****" - in fairness that's a pretty funny comment and in fairness to EFS, his response was that he did tweet about it! I think the comment and subsequent tweets are harmless.

I agree Trinder had a good game - he's maturing into a fine player. Tindall was a defensive substitution which didn't work, and I wonder how long before Trinder is 1st choice.

I didn't think he gave Farrell a hard time though, more Barritt who looked very exposed when he defended at 13 against pace. I'm impressed with Farrell, he's a better player than last year and, injury permitting, I think he's going to become a very fine player indeed. He's got some decent pace too.

It's a shame that Burns has broken again - he does pick up lots of injuries. I have a lot of time for Clegg (excellent basics for a FH), but I think Burns just has something more about him. He also has the size that Ford will never have.

Sam you really don't like Farrell do you?

The way I see it : EFS is a gobby fool who is arguably bringing the game of rugby into disrepute. Can't someone at least ban him from tweeting if nothing else.

I have met Farrell - he is a mild mannered chap,quite shy, nice bloke. To evidently wind him up like EFS has takes some doing! Plus after a heated match it was no surprise tempers were high.

Remember EFS started this by gobbing off about Farrell after last season's AP semi. I know it's the whole school boy excuse - "he started it!". The problem is EFS simply cannot stop tweeting rubbish!

He comes off as a really bad loser and genuinely unpleasant person. Maybe he isn't but it's the image he gives off!

Kong kong cherry I wish you (Gloucester) the best of luck in the AP and in the HC.

Actually I wish all English sides the best of luck in the HC too.

There are niggles because most of the Saracens-Gloucester recent encounters have been tense and close affairs.

Sam you really don't like Farrell do you?

Not fussed, if he can learn to get a backline moving I'd happily have him in the England team, until then I'd rather the media stopped hyping him as the saviour of English rugby. Then again I'm fed up with the media (namely Sky pundits) complaining about Ford not getting more game time off of the bench. Young players tend to have flaws. For the verbals it's a bit of a none starter, the niggle made it an interesting game to watch.

What was your take on the shoulder charge?

Didn't see the game as I was on holiday but heard it was late. He got a penalty didn't he?Maybe deserved a yellow can't say as I didn't see it.

I am sure that more serious incidents in numerous rugby matches have been not picked up upon though.

If I was the Saracens management I would probably tell Farrell to not tackle so much on the edge.

No player should be overhyped but Farrell should be in the 6 nations squad. He is only 20. He has been a shining light for Saracens. Is he the finished article? Of course not.

To be honest he'd have got away with the hit if he'd used his arms. The problem was that it was such and obvious shoulder charge he was always going to be pinged. It's a silly mistake to make especially from a clearing kick where the penalty will take effect from where the ball lands, basically gives the opposition a penalty in your half.

Can't agree with Farrell being selected for the 6N. Where do you play him? He's simply not good enough to play 10 at international level and there are better 12s and 13s. If Barritt and Twelvetrees were to be injured he might be a shout for 12, as Allen is out until January and JTH would be the only other option. As for 13 he really is well down the pecking order. If he could get the Sarries backs moving like Hodgson has and regain the Sarries 10 shirt then things would be different but currently I'd leave him in the Saxons. Hopefully Short and Barritt well get call ups.

Sam was it a yellow card offence?

I feel you are always overly harsh on him.

you are writing Farrell off too early. How many tries does he need to set up and score? How many kicks and tackles must he make?

He could easily be back up FH to Flood and back up inside centre to Barritt.

I don't really rate Twelvetrees. Owen Farrell has done a lot more for his team.

Farrell in my opinion is simply too good to leave out.

You could ask me what has Farrell done and I can give numerous examples.

His kicking and tackling are good enough but he doesn't move the ball in attack. Last season in the AP final he did nothing but kick and in the opening games of the AP season when he was at 10 the Sarries attack looked nothing like the machine that it is now with Hodgson at 10. I'd rather have Hodgson on the bench as cover and Farrell playing and learning at Sarries during the 6N. I'm not harsh I just expect a play maker to be able to create opportunities in attack.

I'd have said it was a yellow card, it was marginally late and there was no attempt to use the arms. If he'd attempted to use the arms it would have been fine but there wasn't even a token arm movement. Borthwick somehow managed to talk the refs hand out of his pocket which was a nifty feat we didn't see the like of when he was England captain.

Borthwick is an excellent club player and captain. He is in his comfort zone and he revels in it.

Farrell creates tries. He just isn't as obvious or as attacking minded as Hodgson. After all didn't he set up the winning try vs Gloucester?

He helps us win games. Of course he can improve but in terms of kicking he has nerves of steel. He tackles very well too.

As I said his kicking is good enough but if he is playing 10 the option to stand flat and move the ball is never taken. The grubber was opportunistic and a clever touch but you are only agreeing with the strenghts I've pointed out above. At Sarries he has a team that can change it's tactics to suit him (great kick chase and is able to force penalties). For England he will be in a team that isn't going to be based around his talents and much like the JWC he will find himself out of his depth at 10. That isn't unusual as stand off is a difficult position at the highest level.

Farrell might have been worth a run out at 12 (in a similar style to Flood at that age) but with Barritt on the scene that option isn't the best one for an English midfield that needs Barritt's go forward more than it needs Farrell's kicking and tackling.

I'd have Farrel on the bench for the 6N's no problems.

Perfect cover for 10 and 12 and the Eng coaching team should be able to help his attacking skills. As Beshocked points out he's not a poor attacker but he's not Hodgeson either. But then nore is Flood or any other 10 going.

At 10 for England with Youngs or Care at 9 and Barrit + Manu outside he'll have loads of attacking options around him.

As to the shoulder charge. usually i'd have said penalty only, but looking at the crap yellow now given out for Lawes late challenge he was lucky.

beshocked wrote:Borthwick is an excellent club player and captain. He is in his comfort zone and he revels in it.

.

One thing I will give Borthwick is that he is definitely an excellent club captain. If you look at the game when he and Narraway went to speak to the ref, the ref's reaction was quite different. He waved Narraway away, but talkted to Borthwick. I'm not suggesting the in the slightest the ref is bias, but that clearly Borthwick was able to influence him where Narraway couldn't. Rugby is a game of interpretations and to be able to get the ref to see your way is a huge asset.

On the EFS front, he is actually an incredibly nice person but you are quire right his twitter persona does not neccessarily portray this. Personally, all I care about is his performances on the pitch.

On Farrell it is amazing how he has progressed. On the old 606 I commented about him as I got to see some of his early performances against us last year when we played Sarries twice in the space of a few weeks. I was not terribly impressed with him on either occassion, but he is unrecognisable from that player. I don't think he is at international standard yet, buthe needs to be brought into the EPS to gain that exposure.

You don't always want your back up FH to be the same as your starter, it's probably more likely to be a tactical substitution than due to injury. I'd happily have Farrell in the squad as one of three 10s, and select him on the bench if I suspected we might need someone to play tight and kick to finish a match off.

At 10 for England with Youngs or Care at 9 and Barrit + Manu outside he'll have loads of attacking options around him.

Where as at Sarries he has Barritt, Short, Strettle and Goode? Back threes don't get much more attacking than that and Barritt is a great out ball to a flat standing IC yet they are barely if ever used with Farrell at 10. Putting him into a situation with even more pressure will not see him start passing it around. I'd say any the only way his selection would be advantageous to England in the short term is if Gustard is given the defence coach job (which he really should be) and can orchastrate the Sarries style kick chase with England. Give Farrell that weapon and England could use him to close out games quite nicely. Currently England's defence doesn't have the organisation to make the most of the bombs Farrell will put up there.

I think we need to judge Farrell as a 10 after a few months of playing and training with Hodgson in a squad which is now more attack minded.