ATP 1000 Paris Bercy 2011

First topic message reminder :

Here we are again...the last tournament of the year, the second indoor 1000 event, Paris Bercy 2011.


And just like in Shanghai, it seems it won't be complete with the best players around: as things stand Djokovic Murray and Federer are all playing, but few will be surprised to see Djokovic pull out in the light of Saturday's injury.

Nadal and Del Potro are also not playing, still, a strong field with Tsonga, Monfils etc promising good fun for tennis fans.


Assuming we have now only Federer and Murray left in the draw as number 1 and 2 seeds**, and that Murray doesn't have any "freak" night injuries, we still have plenty to look forward to in terms of tennis, especially as the surface of Paris Bercy seems to have been made faster*, giving us some really good matches and all-court tennis last year.
* ouch! the surface is back to "slow". According to Andy Murray.
** double ouch! Novak IS playing

The draw:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2011/352/mds.pdf


Order of play for the final, Sunday, 13th of November 2011:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2011/352/op.pdf

With only a few spots left for World Tour Masters year end event in London, it will be interesting to see how things unfold.

Tenez wrote:Certainly! Today he does look old....or tired....both I guess.

Hmm he certainly looked a step slower than usual today, probably tiredness I'd guess. Be interesting to see if Berdy can recover for tomorrow. If so, he has a decent chance I'd say.

Tenez wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Federer playing badly by his standards, ....

Certainly! Today he does look old....or tired....both I guess.

He plays well below par, and the ageing body will understandably be feeling the strain

The younger guys should be taking advantage

Fed will be 31 next August and is probably about the oldest guy in the Paris draw (excepting maybe Ferrero and Davy (??)... both of whom exited stage left in round one ....)

Why is it that three significantly younger opponents haven't managed a single set between them in Fed's matches so far ..... ?

Just how old does he have to be before they can make an impression ...

33 I'd say.

You may be right ! Time will tell.

Meanwhile, I guess so many guys on the circuit are still in awe of him ......

Fed's 800'th win.


THE 800 CLUB

Jimmy Connors 1242 wins
Ivan Lendl 1071
Guillermo Vilas 923
John McEnroe 875
Andre Agassi 870
Stefan Edberg 806
Roger Federer 800

Jahu wrote:Fed's 800'th win.


THE 800 CLUB

Jimmy Connors 1242 wins
Ivan Lendl 1071
Guillermo Vilas 923
John McEnroe 875
Andre Agassi 870
Stefan Edberg 806
Roger Federer 800

Who cares, if it was that important, everyone'd know people in the list. There's only one that matters.

noleisthebest wrote:

Jahu wrote:Fed's 800'th win.


THE 800 CLUB

Jimmy Connors 1242 wins
Ivan Lendl 1071
Guillermo Vilas 923
John McEnroe 875
Andre Agassi 870
Stefan Edberg 806
Roger Federer 800

Who cares, if it was that important, everyone'd know people in the list. There's only one that matters.

Which one?

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Jahu wrote:Fed's 800'th win.


THE 800 CLUB

Jimmy Connors 1242 wins
Ivan Lendl 1071
Guillermo Vilas 923
John McEnroe 875
Andre Agassi 870
Stefan Edberg 806
Roger Federer 800

Who cares, if it was that important, everyone'd know people in the list. There's only one that matters.

Which one?

Not you as well Tenez ... OK, the slam count one

Order of play out for tomorrow:
Fed first at 1 PM, Tsonga at 4.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2011/352/op.pdf

noleisthebest wrote:

Jahu wrote:Fed's 800'th win.


THE 800 CLUB

Jimmy Connors 1242 wins
Ivan Lendl 1071
Guillermo Vilas 923
John McEnroe 875
Andre Agassi 870
Stefan Edberg 806
Roger Federer 800

Who cares, if it was that important, everyone'd know people in the list. There's only one that matters.

Genuine tennis fans care, and it's quite an achievement for anyone. But you being a prime example of how a Djokovic obsessed person behaves, I will add Djoko's 383 wins, in hope that you will sleep better tonight.

Jahu wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Jahu wrote:Fed's 800'th win.


THE 800 CLUB

Jimmy Connors 1242 wins
Ivan Lendl 1071
Guillermo Vilas 923
John McEnroe 875
Andre Agassi 870
Stefan Edberg 806
Roger Federer 800

Who cares, if it was that important, everyone'd know people in the list. There's only one that matters.

Genuine tennis fans care, and it's quite an achievement for anyone. But you being a prime example of how a Djokovic obsessed person behaves, I will add Djoko's 383 wins, in hope that you will sleep better tonight.

I care about the quality, not quantity.

Ah! ok! I thought you meant Connor's 1242.

Tenez wrote:Ah! ok! I thought you meant Connor's 1242.

hey, check this photo out (latest ATP World Tour Finals add), I couldn't stop laughing, aren't they all so tough, I'm going to have nightmares....

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02046/atp-players_2046753c.jpg

Isnerrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Waahahahaha the weaponless one bites the dust

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Isnerrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Waahahahaha the weaponless one bites the dust

well, I hope he ends up in Nole's half next week

I still cannot believe we are deprived of a Federer Murray match tomorrow, I simply can't believe it I was so looking forward to it...

A weird semi-final line-up, I must say...

Strange one, I reckon Fed fans will be secretly pleased should he lose tomorrow allowing him to focus on defending his pts at the main one..

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:Ah! ok! I thought you meant Connor's 1242.

hey, check this photo out (latest ATP World Tour Finals add), I couldn't stop laughing, aren't they all so tough, I'm going to have nightmares....

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02046/atp-players_2046753c.jpg

Yep. looks like they are about to meet the Hackney gang around the corner.

Tennis is getting ever closer to wrestling! A big commercial show!

noleisthebest wrote:I still cannot believe we are deprived of a Federer Murray match tomorrow, I simply can't believe it I was so looking forward to it...

A weird semi-final line-up, I must say...

I would have too but seeing the poor form of Fed today I am glad they are not meeting. Federer woudl have lost that one. He has more chance versus a tired Berdych in my view. But Tsonga has a great chance to get his second Parisian TMS.

noleisthebest wrote:I still cannot believe we are deprived of a Federer Murray match tomorrow, I simply can't believe it I was so looking forward to it...

A weird semi-final line-up, I must say...

As is often the case at this tournament.

The O2 draw will be interesting. Some match-ups seem overdue, some have cropped up a lot. Groups could end up lopsided if Ferrer and a half-fit Fish are in the same one.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Strange one, I reckon Fed fans will be secretly pleased should he lose tomorrow allowing him to focus on defending his pts at the main one..

I am quite shared between having Fed win Paris or London. London probably cause it woudl place him in the unique seat of having won 6 masters. But I really want him to win Paris too. And this year is a great possibility.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:I still cannot believe we are deprived of a Federer Murray match tomorrow, I simply can't believe it I was so looking forward to it...

A weird semi-final line-up, I must say...

I would have too but seeing the poor form of Fed today I am glad they are not meeting. Federer woudl have lost that one. He has more chance versus a tired Berdych in my view. But Tsonga has a great chance to get his second Parisian TMS.

Fed looked almost disinterested, the match was so flat...Pico defintely plays a lot better on clay....

The thing is the courts are dead slow and It feels like every shot has to be whacked. That is bound to give Berdych a good chance.

Tenez wrote:The thing is the courts are dead slow and It feels like every shot has to be whacked. That is bound to give Berdych a good chance.

you're right, the ball almost sticks to it, I wonder what made them change the surface so dramatically, it can't be to make it compatible with O2, because O2 surface is faster and lighter.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is the courts are dead slow and It feels like every shot has to be whacked. That is bound to give Berdych a good chance.

you're right, the ball almost sticks to it, I wonder what made them change the surface so dramatically, it can't be to make it compatible with O2, because O2 surface is faster and lighter.

Yes it plays pretty well last year though it was not as fast as some were saying.
I actually think the O2 is probably the reason for slowing it down. I thought it was pretty slow last year too. But it's difficult to say as teh camera angle can be deceptive.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is the courts are dead slow and It feels like every shot has to be whacked. That is bound to give Berdych a good chance.

you're right, the ball almost sticks to it, I wonder what made them change the surface so dramatically, it can't be to make it compatible with O2, because O2 surface is faster and lighter.

Yes it plays pretty well last year though it was not as fast as some were saying.
I actually think the O2 is probably the reason for slowing it down. I thought it was pretty slow last year too. But it's difficult to say as teh camera angle can be deceptive.

It looked particularly slow in Federer's match, Monaco had all the time in the world in the 2nd set which was a bit weird. I think Federer was saving himself a bit, the only thing with Federer is it's getting more difficult to control the 3rd gear now that players are trying their luck against him.
I kind of look forward to WTF and not, I really hope they don't mess up the court there, too.

Isner will take out Tsonga too. He has dsplayed some fine form off late. Slower courts means more injuries.

I thought Paris was meant to be the fastest court of the season

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:The thing is the courts are dead slow and It feels like every shot has to be whacked. That is bound to give Berdych a good chance.

you're right, the ball almost sticks to it, I wonder what made them change the surface so dramatically, it can't be to make it compatible with O2, because O2 surface is faster and lighter.

Yes it plays pretty well last year though it was not as fast as some were saying.
I actually think the O2 is probably the reason for slowing it down. I thought it was pretty slow last year too. But it's difficult to say as teh camera angle can be deceptive.

O2 was very very slow last year. I can remember everyone (bar Nadal fans) was complaining about it. But what was crucial for Federers' performance: the low bounce. Not sure if that was because of the ball or the wooden layer beneath the concrete.

On todays performances: i thought Berdych was hitting the ball really well. He was yet again intimidated with Murrays retrieving skills so that's why he missed quite a few shots. But he was outhitting Murray from start to finish.
It could get really tricky for Federer tomorrow if Berdych finds a way to push Federer away form the baseline. But much will depend on how determined Federer will be. Today he just wasn't focussed and to his surprise (and regret) it got quite physical in the second set. And immediately we saw his vulnerability again.
I expect he'll pull many BH slices and many dropshots tomorrow. Berdych moves well from side to side but doesn't like to be forced to move forwards, like most tall players.

gallery play wrote:
O2 was very very slow last year. I can remember everyone (bar Nadal fans) was complaining about it. But what was crucial for Federers' performance: the low bounce. Not sure if that was because of the ball or the wooden layer beneath the concrete.

Yep

On todays performances: i thought Berdych was hitting the ball really well. He was yet again intimidated with Murrays retrieving skills so that's why he missed quite a few shots. But he was outhitting Murray from start to finish.
It could get really tricky for Federer tomorrow if Berdych finds a way to push Federer away form the baseline. But much will depend on how determined Federer will be. Today he just wasn't focussed and to his surprise (and regret) it got quite physical in the second set. And immediately we saw his vulnerability again.
I expect he'll pull many BH slices and many dropshots tomorrow. Berdych moves well from side to side but doesn't like to be forced to move forwards, like most tall players.

Spot on! To me his vulnerability is to have to play matches in a row....especially after a week like Basel.

The problem for Federer is that on those slow courts he'll have problems hitting through Berdych but Berdych has enough firepower to hit through a tired Federer.

laverfan wrote:

lydian wrote:Thanks laverfan, if on boards it should play pretty quick, much quicker than Paris.

This is strange. From the Paris draw -

2011 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2011/352/mds.pdf - Hard, Acrylic on Wood.
2010 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2010/352/mds.pdf - Hard, Greenset on Boards - same as Basel 2011.

So Basel 2011 is the same as Paris 2010, WTF 2011.

Edit: I agree Lydian, it should be pretty quick. Why did Paris change it's surface?

Acrylic on Wood is the current surface.

From past draws....

There is some confusion on what the exact ITF ratings are, but 2010 surface was faster than 2011 surface. 2005-2009 seems to have been category 4 (medium-fast) or category 5 (fast) depending on the specific surface resin application.

Acrylic on Wood - 2011 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2011/352/mds.pdf
Hard, Greenset on Boards - 2010 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2010/352/mds.pdf
Hard, Gerflor - 2009 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2009/352/mds.pdf
Hard - 2008 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2008/352/mds.pdf
Hard - 2007 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2007/352/mds.pdf
Hard, Teraflex - 2006 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2006/352/mds.pdf
Gerflor - 2005 - http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2005/352/mds.pdf

https://www.606v2.com/t17988-wtf-surface-choice

http://tennis.com/articles/templates/ticker.aspx?articleid=15082&zoneid=6

References - http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=228797

Berdych-Murray - shows just how well Berdych can play but will he have much left for the semi?
The 800th career win. Not be underrated and a terrific achievement. Obviously Edberg's total will be passed but can anyone else in the list be caught? Who would people predict to also reach 800 - the present top three perhaps , with Rafa having an excellent chance, but probably nobody else at the moment.

laverfan wrote:
There is some confusion on what the exact ITF ratings are, but 2010 surface was faster than 2011 surface.

Which lunatic decided to make it slower than 2010?
There has to come an end to this nonsense.

sirfredperry wrote:Berdych-Murray - shows just how well Berdych can play but will he have much left for the semi?
The 800th career win. Not be underrated and a terrific achievement. Obviously Edberg's total will be passed but can anyone else in the list be caught? Who would people predict to also reach 800 - the present top three perhaps , with Rafa having an excellent chance, but probably nobody else at the moment.

It's perhaps conceivable that Agassi and Mac could also be caught

As for the others, their records seem very safe. The Connors total is undoubtedly admirable but also something of an oddity. He was still playing on the main tour well into his late thirties and managed to maintain a top 20 ranking for an unfeasibly long time. The physical demands (and great strength-in-depth) of today's game would make anything close to his tally or career path an utter impossibility. And I can't imagine anyone else having the appetite for continuing that long anyway.

Connors always said that he just loved being on a tennis court - but that involved suffering countless defeats to the sort of guys who in times past wouldn't have taken more than a couple of games off him ; and very few players have the interest/motivation to put themselves through that ; especially those who have accumulated more cash than they can spend........

Yes, the Connors record is safe. Jimmy once said you had to be a bit mad to be a top player. "Well what about you, Jimmy?" he was asked. He replied: Me, I was as mad as a hatter."
And that was back in the old days when you could probably have something of a life and still play well. Now it's a weird world of ultra fitness, special diets, endless hotel rooms, countless long-haul flights and, of course, pots of money. But you wouldn't want to do it for too long.

Although not great against Juan Monaco yesterday, I feel Roger Federer is in prime position now to win the Paris Masters. Berdych today will surely feel the effects of his marathon match yesterday and I'd say Rog would fancy his chances against whoever he plays in the final.

3 of the 4 wins Berdych has over Federer come from their last 4 matches.

Will he be able to move Berdych around?

Yes Tenez but I believe Berdych may just find that the task of beating two of the top four players in the world in back-to-back matches is just one step too far. Fed will be fresher as well so I am pretty confident that Roger will win.

It's a tricky call.

My instinct would be to say that Fed's vast experience on the big stages gives him the better chance today, but that list of the '800 Club' members above is a timely reminder of just how many matches his body has been through (of course that doesn't include around 180 or so losses), and realistically the machinery can't be expected to perform as effectively as it once used to.

I actually don't think the week's exits/withdrawals have had that much effect on Fed's prospects here and to get through today's semi and then a final still presents quite a challenge .......

I agree Lags.

Fed will likely have to beat two of his toughest recent opponents in Berdy and JWT to win the title.

I think he is 2-5 against them combined in the last seven matches.

However, I expect Fed to be focused and up for this match.

Unfortunately the slow conditions will make it very tough for Fed to through Berdy. He'll have to play with a lot variety, use his slice to move Berdy around.

Yep Berdy and JWT are two of the toughest guys around at the moment and - when on song - they can't be bullied or pushed around easily ..... The JWT serve has become quite a point scorer at its best

Fed looks up for this, Berdy looking very slow, I think this will be very easy for Fed

Wow, Fed looking razor sharp early on.

Truly amazing how well Federer plays. Up to this point (5-4 in the first) the best i've seen this year. Yes, that includes RG..

What about this stat:
average groundstroke speed:
Fed 121 km/ph
Berdy 116 km/ph
Mind you, Fed plays much more slow slices than Berdy! And this is Berdy folks, one of the biggest hitters on the tour.

Last week in Basel there was another amazing stat: Federer's average hitting point was 2 feet inside the baseline. Average!

So yes, i'm very impressed with his indoor season so far.

6-4 Federer. 20 winners!

Berdy's playing very well too btw

gallery play wrote:Truly amazing how well Federer plays. Up to this point (5-4 in the first) the best i've seen this year. Yes, that includes RG..

What about this stat:
average groundstroke speed:
Fed 121 km/ph
Berdy 116 km/ph
Mind you, Fed plays much more slow slices than Berdy! And this is Berdy folks, one of the biggest hitters on the tour.

Last week in Basel there was another amazing stat: Federer's average hitting point was 2 feet inside the baseline. Average!

So yes, i'm very impressed with his indoor season so far.

So Federer keeps improving GP?

I do think he looks more lethargic than in the past but besides a few off days like yesterday, his timing in general is better than ever to me.

This has all the ingredients for a 3 setter ...

err ......

Tenez wrote:

So Federer keeps improving GP?

I do think he looks more lethargic than in the past but besides a few off days like yesterday, his timing in general is better than ever to me.

i like what i see T, as much as you

He's definitely playing better than in 2007-2009, but he can't stay in this zone for long these days. That's why i think he was better in 2006.

Even today, his defense is top notch (or i prefer to say his reach) but you can tell the serve is getting weary already

That BH winner...another youtube hit?