How far will these British Champions go?

Hello everyone,

Just thought i'd see how far you think the current british champions will go.

Flyweight: Paul Edwards
Super-Flyweight: Lee Haskins
Bantamweight: Stuart Hall
Super-Bantamweight: Jason Booth
Featherweight: John Simpson
Super-Featherweight: Gary Sykes
Lightweight: Gavin Rees
Light-Welterweight: Lenny Daws
Welterweight: Kell Brook
Light-Middleweight: Sam Webb
Middleweight: Darren Barker
Super-Middleweight: James DeGale
Light-Heavyweight: Nathan Cleverly
Cruiserweight: Robert Norton
Heavyweight: Derek Chisora

thanks... please be nice as it is my first topic!

Adam

Flyweight: Paul Edwards: I'd give a few in Britain a good shot at him, go to Asia and no chance.
Super-Flyweight: Lee Haskins. Could do alright, unsure on his consistency but think he has a winnable Euro fight at Fly.
Bantamweight: Stuart Hall: British level.
Super-Bantamweight: Jason Booth. Will lose to stylists but decent British level operator.
Featherweight: John Simpson. Where he is now really. Might change divisions and aim towards title as Featherweight champions are too strong.
Super-Featherweight: Gary Sykes. Lower Euro/domestic level. Never the best in Britain.
Lightweight: Gavin Rees. He's already done his best work but can get back to Euro standard.
Light-Welterweight: Lenny Daws. British title level.
Welterweight: Kell Brook. Titlist, not real champion.
Light-Middleweight: Sam Webb. Undecided.
Middleweight: Darren Barker. Couple more fights around Euro level before retirement.
Super-Middleweight: James DeGale. Good champion.
Light-Heavyweight: Nathan Cleverly. Titlist but never dominant.
Cruiserweight: Robert Norton: Never seen him.
Heavyweight: Derek Chisora. Euro level/title shot.

Should say: Depends how they are matched really, but was aiming at what sort of level rather than what belts they may win.

All depends on how good the WBO champion is.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:All depends on how good the WBO champion is.

A lot better than the nonsensical WBC these days.

Rodders

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:All depends on how good the WBO champion is.

Trussy you're just a waste of space and so predictable....

C'mon TRUSS you can do better? I know you've seen DeGale.

I see you're borrowing my lines now....

I was half serious......Fact is the WBO's meal ticket is in this Country and fact is 75% of these guys will be fighting for that title..

You're right and I acknowledged the same thing but you can judge their potential regardless of what straps they might be fighting for. I don't think 75% will get a title shot anyway. Certainly not a respected belt like the WBC diamond belt.

Out of the ones listed, I see three definite world champions; Brook, DeGale and Cleverly. I actually think that Chisora is a decent 50:50 shout to win a strap at some point, too, given that the Heavyweight division looks as if it'll be totally fragmented again within twelve months.

Seems like I'm beginning to fly the flag for him on my own, but I still maintain that Brook is the most natural talent of all the British domestic level fighters, and has the most potential of them all. The argument of 'should (insert name here) be with Warren or not?' rears its head time and again, but this is certainly one case where he'd have progressed a lot further without ol' fish eyes, in my opinion at least.

Guys like Edwards, Haskins and Daws will struggle to hold on to a British title for my money, and have done well to even get that. Booth will remain a consistent performer at European and Commonwealth level, though, as will Barker.

There are questions over Brook's committment to training. That and the fact he's fought noone yet are reasons to have him behind DeGale and Cleverly IMO. He will likely get a shot at a vacant title with very little experience and if he doesn't lose that I can't see him hanging onto his title for long. He has things you can't teach but if someone stands up to his power I think he'd be beatable.

Scottrf wrote:There are questions over Brook's committment to training. That and the fact he's fought noone yet are reasons to have him behind DeGale and Cleverly IMO. He will likely get a shot at a vacant title with very little experience and if he doesn't lose that I can't see him hanging onto his title for long. He has things you can't teach but if someone stands up to his power I think he'd be beatable.

i must admit i'm not convinced by Kell Brook as yet... i wasnt impressed with his win over Michael Jennings as i know Kell can do much better... i dont know if he has the right attitude to be a World Champion... dont get me wrong i do like him as a boxer and i do hope he does become a world champion.

Not denying that there are certainly question marks over Brook's work ethic and attitude outside the ring; by most accounts, he's an absolute naughty naughty boy. But as I said, he's the most natural talent in Britain, at least in my eyes.

He does need to get a move on with regards to upping his level of opposition, but given that Welterweight isn't exactly going to be a sensational division once Mayweather and Pacquiao hang 'em up, there's a window there for Brook to establish himself as a capable performer at world level. I actually think he'd be capable of beating Berto if matched with him right now.

He's 24, hasn't had a real fight since September (I wont count the guy ranked outside the top 400- That's a tune up fight of a similar standard Groves/DeGale are taking) and has nothing scheduled. Didn't exactly convince against the guy who was blasted out by Cotto either IMO. I'm not sure about the Berto fight. Although I don't think he's proven yet either, I think he'd walk through Brook right now. Bundrage at LM seems more likely ATM though.

Cleverly is technically a world champion now, i'm sure he will unify or hold a full version of a title at some point. He has a decent chance against Braehmer, a fight which is scheduled to happen in the near future. Could be first on the list. Unless he starts catapulting, surely Brook can be a decent-ish name in a few years time. Bet on him to be a world champ, same for Chisora and Degale.

Booth had his chance against Molitor, not sure if he will gain another. A decent UK & euro level fight, but during his career has not quite made the top draw. Can see Sykes competing for a title, wouldn't bet on him being a world champon though. Daws has a choice of LWW and WW, they don't hand them out. Its a reasonably high standard, might get close to title elimination fights, but probably banged out by 3-7 in the division. From another perspectve we do have a decent contingent at LWW and WW, so may see a few champs or title contenders emerge.

Not convinced by the enigma that is Sam Webb, nah. Margarito and Cintron would probably be interested in title contests ahead of Webb, nevermind another 6-7 fighters

I can see Kell Brook, Cleverly and Degale all holding 'proper' World titles. A few of the rest might get shots, but I doubt they will get to hold the belt. Of the three above I can see Kell Brook being most dominate if he times his entry right with most of the top contenders in and around his weight close to retirement.
Boxing Challenges

The only one who will be a recognised world champ (best in the world) would be DeGale. Others may hold the WBO belt and make a good living defending against No Names.

I think Brook has it all and with the exception of Berto the young talent in the division isn't of a particularly high standard

imperialghosty wrote:I think Brook has it all and with the exception of Berto the young talent in the division isn't of a particularly high standard

Brook like to pose to much and look good. He tends to forget that looking good involves knocking the other guy out. I was disappointed in his fight with Jennings. When the class is upped, he didn't perform.

You don't have to knock someone out to look good, he does tend to cruise but with his ability i'd fully expect him to perform better against better opposition

imperialghosty wrote:You don't have to knock someone out to look good, he does tend to cruise but with his ability i'd fully expect him to perform better against better opposition

You look good by fighting not by posing and posteuring imo. If you can do both like Naz et al then all power to you. But he didn't. I hopes he does do better next time round and against better opposition. He'll probably get the WBO strap and defend it in Watford Leisure Centre.

Its imensely hard to say how far these guys can get. Nowadays career management is a bigger deal than ever before and talent doesnt need to be as high to get far. With so many titles and divisions to select from how you are manged, the route you take and the competition in the division will be far more of a determining factor than how actually talented you are.

If the likes of Ricky Burns and Gavin Rees can pick up world titles then I am sure with the right backing and careful management many of the other fighters on the domestic scene could find themselves getting opportunities.

I think Brook and De Gale are the biggest talents but I suspect Brook will end up a poor mans Naseem Hamed unless the division he in in is weak. By all accounts hes not fond of training and has had it pretty easy so far in the pro game. I think he has a false confidence about him. I am more impressed by De Gale who despite being also cocky, seems to have more of a fire about him to acheive and not be content facing low grade opposition.

They are the only two I see with genuine world level talent. The rest of them as I say will depend on right place, right time kind of matchmaking and a heavy dose of manufacturing.

Cleverly may be knocking on world titles at the moment but on the basis of his last couple of outings it would brutal the lessons he would recieve off even an old Hopkins.

Colonial Lion wrote:Its imensely hard to say how far these guys can get. Nowadays career management is a bigger deal than ever before and talent doesnt need to be as high to get far. With so many titles and divisions to select from how you are manged, the route you take and the competition in the division will be far more of a determining factor than how actually talented you are.

If the likes of Ricky Burns and Gavin Rees can pick up world titles then I am sure with the right backing and careful management many of the other fighters on the domestic scene could find themselves getting opportunities.

I think Brook and De Gale are the biggest talents but I suspect Brook will end up a poor mans Naseem Hamed unless the division he in in is weak. By all accounts hes not fond of training and has had it pretty easy so far in the pro game. I think he has a false confidence about him. I am more impressed by De Gale who despite being also cocky, seems to have more of a fire about him to acheive and not be content facing low grade opposition.

They are the only two I see with genuine world level talent. The rest of them as I say will depend on right place, right time kind of matchmaking and a heavy dose of manufacturing.

Cleverly may be knocking on world titles at the moment but on the basis of his last couple of outings it would brutal the lessons he would recieve off even an old Hopkins.

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I can see Clev beating Bhop. You have to be very disciplined and stick to a very precise game plan otherwise Bhop will mess you about and steal a decision. Clev has the skill and boxing brain to stick to a game plan and not fall into the numerous traps Bhop sets.

Even at 46 Hopkins would have far too much for Cleverly judging by his showing against Pascal. I think the Clev is too inclined for a tear up and against Hopkins that's a massive mistake.

imperialghosty wrote:Even at 46 Hopkins would have far too much for Cleverly judging by his showing against Pascal. I think the Clev is too inclined for a tear up and against Hopkins that's a massive mistake.

Agreed....if Clev engages in a crowd pleasing tear up. If he boxes clever and doesn't engage close up with Bhop, then he can do it. Clev is skilled enough to beat BHop who has to grow old one day. If they fought I'd bet on Clev.

azania wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:Its imensely hard to say how far these guys can get. Nowadays career management is a bigger deal than ever before and talent doesnt need to be as high to get far. With so many titles and divisions to select from how you are manged, the route you take and the competition in the division will be far more of a determining factor than how actually talented you are.

If the likes of Ricky Burns and Gavin Rees can pick up world titles then I am sure with the right backing and careful management many of the other fighters on the domestic scene could find themselves getting opportunities.

I think Brook and De Gale are the biggest talents but I suspect Brook will end up a poor mans Naseem Hamed unless the division he in in is weak. By all accounts hes not fond of training and has had it pretty easy so far in the pro game. I think he has a false confidence about him. I am more impressed by De Gale who despite being also cocky, seems to have more of a fire about him to acheive and not be content facing low grade opposition.

They are the only two I see with genuine world level talent. The rest of them as I say will depend on right place, right time kind of matchmaking and a heavy dose of manufacturing.

Cleverly may be knocking on world titles at the moment but on the basis of his last couple of outings it would brutal the lessons he would recieve off even an old Hopkins.

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I can see Clev beating Bhop. You have to be very disciplined and stick to a very precise game plan otherwise Bhop will mess you about and steal a decision. Clev has the skill and boxing brain to stick to a game plan and not fall into the numerous traps Bhop sets.

What would you be basing this on old chap? Cleverly may be a maths whizz but hes looked far from a genuis in the ring and against an old master like Hopkins I think he would be in the deep end and drowning.

If anything, I would suggest Cleverly has looked vulnerable at trying to stick to a gameplan against the better opponents he has faced. Against Murat, he made it a war, left his chin hanging out there and relied purely on brawn over brain. This is highly inadviseable if going in against some of the better light heavyweights.

Against Mohammedi, he was bamboozled by an opponent who was not inclined to engage in a slug fest. If he thought that guy was awkward then Hopkins would be a nightmare for him.

It may be he catches Hopkins when hes 55 years old or something and if thats the case I might reconsider but if we are talking about the Hopkins that was unceremoniously robbed in Canada then I think we are very much talking in master and pupil terms.

You would lose your money then without doubt, if your basing your opinion on Hopkins getting old over night then it isn't really beating Hopkins if you catch my drift. Cleverly hasn't beaten anyone of note, looked poor in his last fight and never sticks to a set gameplan, sooner or later in his fights he just tries to overwhelm his opposition and he hasn't got the skills of a Calzaghe to successfully do that against Hopkins.

imperialghosty wrote:You would lose your money then without doubt, if your basing your opinion on Hopkins getting old over night then it isn't really beating Hopkins if you catch my drift. Cleverly hasn't beaten anyone of note, looked poor in his last fight and never sticks to a set gameplan, sooner or later in his fights he just tries to overwhelm his opposition and he hasn't got the skills of a Calzaghe to successfully do that against Hopkins.

One thing about boxing is that there is always doubt. One punch ends all. Bhop should win, he is better, more skilled etc etc etc. But he has to get old and in the Pascal fight, there were times his body didn't follow his brain. I believe he is ripe for the taking.....if you dont play his game.

Colonial Lion wrote:

azania wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:Its imensely hard to say how far these guys can get. Nowadays career management is a bigger deal than ever before and talent doesnt need to be as high to get far. With so many titles and divisions to select from how you are manged, the route you take and the competition in the division will be far more of a determining factor than how actually talented you are.

If the likes of Ricky Burns and Gavin Rees can pick up world titles then I am sure with the right backing and careful management many of the other fighters on the domestic scene could find themselves getting opportunities.

I think Brook and De Gale are the biggest talents but I suspect Brook will end up a poor mans Naseem Hamed unless the division he in in is weak. By all accounts hes not fond of training and has had it pretty easy so far in the pro game. I think he has a false confidence about him. I am more impressed by De Gale who despite being also cocky, seems to have more of a fire about him to acheive and not be content facing low grade opposition.

They are the only two I see with genuine world level talent. The rest of them as I say will depend on right place, right time kind of matchmaking and a heavy dose of manufacturing.

Cleverly may be knocking on world titles at the moment but on the basis of his last couple of outings it would brutal the lessons he would recieve off even an old Hopkins.

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I can see Clev beating Bhop. You have to be very disciplined and stick to a very precise game plan otherwise Bhop will mess you about and steal a decision. Clev has the skill and boxing brain to stick to a game plan and not fall into the numerous traps Bhop sets.

What would you be basing this on old chap? Cleverly may be a maths whizz but hes looked far from a genuis in the ring and against an old master like Hopkins I think he would be in the deep end and drowning.

If anything, I would suggest Cleverly has looked vulnerable at trying to stick to a gameplan against the better opponents he has faced. Against Murat, he made it a war, left his chin hanging out there and relied purely on brawn over brain. This is highly inadviseable if going in against some of the better light heavyweights.

Against Mohammedi, he was bamboozled by an opponent who was not inclined to engage in a slug fest. If he thought that guy was awkward then Hopkins would be a nightmare for him.

It may be he catches Hopkins when hes 55 years old or something and if thats the case I might reconsider but if we are talking about the Hopkins that was unceremoniously robbed in Canada then I think we are very much talking in master and pupil terms.

Hop would be a nightmare for anyone except for father time who I believe is fast catching up....at last.

I just don't see Cleverly being that man, he doesn't have the power to trouble Hopkins in that sense and to be honest he makes far too many elementary mistakes that would get punished severely. He's a decent prospect but dare I say it much of that comes from him being Welsh.

imperialghosty wrote:I just don't see Cleverly being that man, he doesn't have the power to trouble Hopkins in that sense and to be honest he makes far too many elementary mistakes that would get punished severely. He's a decent prospect but dare I say it much of that comes from him being Welsh.

LOL. From what I've seen of him he has very good fundermental skills with fast hands and decent power to worry Bhop. As I said, if he cuts out the cr@p which he often engages in, he stands a very good chance of winning. That is if Bhop ages slightly more. The man cant go on forever.

Your bringing too many ifs and buts into it, you said he has decent power and Hopkins has never been bothered by decent power in his career. He does have good fundamentals but he also makes too many mistakes, i'm not going to overlook that because he might cut them out.

And please don't use 'lol' or things like that, it's so cringy

imperialghosty wrote:Your bringing too many ifs and buts into it, you said he has decent power and Hopkins has never been bothered by decent power in his career. He does have good fundamentals but he also makes too many mistakes, i'm not going to overlook that because he might cut them out.

And please don't use 'lol' or things like that, it's so cringy

Bhop never had problems with decent power when he was a middleweight. LHW is an entirely different story as he found against Pascal. Yes my argument is based around many ifs. Bhop is good, but I've never been too impressed by him. Perhaps because his style simply annoys me.

I think you need to look at what Cleverly has done so far, in particular as his opponents have improved in quality as the primary context and treat the potential if and buts as secondary at the moment.

We can say with reasonable authority that Cleverly is above the domestic level based on what he has done there. This isnt neccessarily as hugely relevant as it seems when looking at Cleverly in world level. Solid fundementals against an opponet of limited ability is not the same as against a world level operator.

I would consider his last two opponents as Euro level. He displayed a solid chin but things like gameplan and ability to disect an opponent that wont simply stand in front of you and so forth were not really evident, at least not to the degree you would need to beat the top lightheavyweights. Its supposing too mch to say "if he does this" or "if he cuts out that". Until he does at the level hes at then you have to assume he hasnt.

Im not saying he cant beat a top light heavyweight, but on evidence so far it looks like he would struggle.

Colonial Lion wrote:I think you need to look at what Cleverly has done so far, in particular as his opponents have improved in quality as the primary context and treat the potential if and buts as secondary at the moment.

We can say with reasonable authority that Cleverly is above the domestic level based on what he has done there. This isnt neccessarily as hugely relevant as it seems when looking at Cleverly in world level. Solid fundementals against an opponet of limited ability is not the same as against a world level operator.

I would consider his last two opponents as Euro level. He displayed a solid chin but things like gameplan and ability to disect an opponent that wont simply stand in front of you and so forth were not really evident, at least not to the degree you would need to beat the top lightheavyweights. Its supposing too mch to say "if he does this" or "if he cuts out that". Until he does at the level hes at then you have to assume he hasnt.

Im not saying he cant beat a top light heavyweight, but on evidence so far it looks like he would struggle.

You're probably right. But his last opponent was a late sub and that causes all sorts of problems. I rate Clev highly. Not saying that he's a world beater but I reckon Bhop is declining to the extent that he is ripe for the taking.

azania wrote:

imperialghosty wrote:Your bringing too many ifs and buts into it, you said he has decent power and Hopkins has never been bothered by decent power in his career. He does have good fundamentals but he also makes too many mistakes, i'm not going to overlook that because he might cut them out.

And please don't use 'lol' or things like that, it's so cringy

Bhop never had problems with decent power when he was a middleweight. LHW is an entirely different story as he found against Pascal. Yes my argument is based around many ifs. Bhop is good, but I've never been too impressed by him. Perhaps because his style simply annoys me.

His style for me is what makes him so effective Azania, he likes to spoil, use some dirty boxing and is always overly cautious. Prefering to counter punch unless he has his man going. It's certainly not the best to watch but i feel it's what has allowed him to continue at the top level for so long.

I feel Cleverly would be best to stay away from Hopkins for the time being but like you say fathertime is catching up quick and although he would stand a chance would be better to wait another year or so. Many of the recent champions such as Pavlik/Pascal have struggled with him and don't feel it's a good matchup for any prospect.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:

imperialghosty wrote:Your bringing too many ifs and buts into it, you said he has decent power and Hopkins has never been bothered by decent power in his career. He does have good fundamentals but he also makes too many mistakes, i'm not going to overlook that because he might cut them out.

And please don't use 'lol' or things like that, it's so cringy

Bhop never had problems with decent power when he was a middleweight. LHW is an entirely different story as he found against Pascal. Yes my argument is based around many ifs. Bhop is good, but I've never been too impressed by him. Perhaps because his style simply annoys me.

His style for me is what makes him so effective Azania, he likes to spoil, use some dirty boxing and is always overly cautious. Prefering to counter punch unless he has his man going. It's certainly not the best to watch but i feel it's what has allowed him to continue at the top level for so long.

I feel Cleverly would be best to stay away from Hopkins for the time being but like you say fathertime is catching up quick and although he would stand a chance would be better to wait another year or so. Many of the recent champions such as Pavlik/Pascal have struggled with him and don't feel it's a good matchup for any prospect.

His style is winning ugly. Effective though. Win or lose, if the fight were offered to Clev he should jump at it. The type of experience Bhop brings to the ring cannot be bought irrespective of the amount of nutritional aid and modern technique you employ. If Clev adopts a hit and move style, give Hop angles and dont stay still, he can win. Big if though as you say, he loves a tear up and that plays right into Hops style.

If he can go into the ring and stick to a game plan then i do believe Cleverly has a great chance. It's not going to be long before Bernard turns up to the ring and it's all gone. Surely?

Yes if Hopkins becomes over the hill then Cleverly may stand a chance of winning.

Its not really proving anything though is it? I mean essentially what people are saying is Cleverly can beat a washed up Hopkins.

It doesnt really prove Cleverly is world level in that event though.

I still think he has plenty to learn and as the last fight showed (albeit it was short notice) he looks like hes going to struggle with classier fighters who arent just going to stand in front of him (Dawson for instance)

Or fighters who are willing to stand in front of him but are far superior to the likes of Murat (Pascal).

If he wants a test to see if he can box to instructions and pass a test somebody like Johnson might be a good shout to test himself after the Super 6 because if he does try his brawn over brain tactics in that he will find out quick that he needs to adapt and actually try and outbox an opponent every so often.

Well Hopkins with the exception of two Pascal punches has not struggled with the power up at Light Heavyweight, his chin is as solid as anyones. Pascal is also a lot more heavy handed than Cleverly who doesn't have the one punch power to trouble someone like Hopkins, a Hopkins in any sort of form wouldn't be hit enough for any cumulative effects either.

imperialghosty wrote:Well Hopkins with the exception of two Pascal punches has not struggled with the power up at Light Heavyweight, his chin is as solid as anyones. Pascal is also a lot more heavy handed than Cleverly who doesn't have the one punch power to trouble someone like Hopkins, a Hopkins in any sort of form wouldn't be hit enough for any cumulative effects either.

You cant say with the exception of two punches. The point is he got floored. Froch took Pascal's best without going down. Bhop rarely gets hit clean yet went down. I dont know how hard Pascal hits but I imagine Clev hits just as hard.

Your being ridiculous if you think Cleverly hits anywhere near as hard as Pascal, don't think that the Clev has genuinely knocked anyone out thus far so to say he has the power to hurt Hopkins is a bit far fetched.

Who has Pas KO'd then? When he stepped up the KO percentage reduced (as with most boxers)

Knocking people out isn't the only way to show you have power, he's been able to keep highly ranked fighters off him like Dawson and Diaconu because of his power. Cleverly hasn't mixed it with anyone of that standard.

imperialghosty wrote:Knocking people out isn't the only way to show you have power, he's been able to keep highly ranked fighters off him like Dawson and Diaconu because of his power. Cleverly hasn't mixed it with anyone of that standard.

Shifting the goalposts. You were the one who said Clev hadn't genuinely KO'd anyone out. When I mention that neither has Pas, you make up another reason.

Where do I say that Pascal has knocked people out, I simply said he has more power

You question Clev's ability to KO people. I questioned Pascal's ability to do the same. Thenyou shialposts by saying Kos are not theonly way to show power. If that is the case, why raise the issue of KO in relation to Clev?

Despite facing inferior opposition he still can't KO them yet i'm meant to believe one punch from him could change a fight with Hopkins

imperialghosty wrote:Despite facing inferior opposition he still can't KO them yet i'm meant to believe one punch from him could change a fight with Hopkins

What I am saying is that Clev has a very good chance if he sticks to a game plan. And as you know, in boxing, one punch can change everything. That's the beauty of the sport we love. Bhop has to age soon. He will be favourite and rightly so.

One punch can't everything in every fight and it's a simplistic view to suggest it can. I'm looking at the here and now and Cleverly can't stick to a gameplan and Hopkins performed very well against Pascal, i'm not going to be drawn into ifs and buts.

imperialghosty wrote:One punch can't everything in every fight and it's a simplistic view to suggest it can. I'm looking at the here and now and Cleverly can't stick to a gameplan and Hopkins performed very well against Pascal, i'm not going to be drawn into ifs and buts.

One punch cant change everything? Are you being serious? Boxing is always ifs and buts before a fight. There are no guarantees whatsoever. Ask Big John Tate if one punch cant change everything. Ask Jermaine Taylor against Froch if one punch cant change everything.

You never read what I say, your far too quick to defend your sometimes atrocious views. I said it isn't possible for one punch to change things in every fight