Nigel Davies to take over Wales from 2015 onwards?

I am so excited to see Gatts, Edz, Howlz n Jinks go on till 2015. This Wales squad can become truly incredible.

However I think that credit has to go to Nigel Davies for creating a team from nothing. I think the Scarlets still lack depth in the forwards, but what he has done with little money and resources to turn some of these young players into international standard is amazing. You could pick a good Wales backline out of just Scarlets now and it won't be long before the forwards come through too. Ben Morgan obviously springs to mind.

If the Scarlets can start winning things them I'm sure the stobborn stick in the mud fans who won't goto Parc Y Scarlets will be replaced by more modern youthful fans anyway.

If Davies stays there for another 4 years I can see them achieving a lot and I think he could be the best possible successor to Gatland.

Ive always had a lot of respect of Davies as an attack coach, when he was with Wales we still scored tries and were dangerous in attack even if our gameplan was out of date and the camp was riven by discord with team organisation was a mess. (Yes Im looking at you Gareth Jenkins )

If he is to be coach of Wales we need a very good forwards specialist to compliment him, not McByde or a scarlets old boys reunion as was the case in 2007.

It's funny as most Scarlets fans were screaming at him 2 years ago and talking about him getting sacked being the best thing that could happen and 4 years ago he and G Jenkins were 2 of the worst coaches in Wales according to most Welsh fans last season N Davies was said to be a good coach and now he's being touted for the Wales job.

And all this while I doubt much has changed from his skill set while at Wales or his technique.

I'm not sure what this says about us fans - but it does make me careful about looking too far ahead in coach or rugby teams.

PS I do think Nige is benefiting hugely from Gareths sterling work with the Scarlets youngsters - but take nothing away from Nigels great work either.

I would like to see a Welsh coach take over from Gats but I still think we're way too parochial in Wales and whenever we have a Welsh coach all the old regional/club knives come out just as it did for Ruddock and Jenkins, with fans of clubs other than the club the coach came from dying to see them fail, whereas a Kiwi coach seems to get time and patience.

Nah, can't see it happening at this point. Davies remains haunted by the colossal black mark of the Gareth Jenkins reign during which time our attack reacted too slowly and looked the rugby equivalent of rabbits in the headlights at the most important of times (Fiji 2007 springs to mind). Just compare that to the Howley-engineered approach this year, much greater composure, ferocity and general awareness of the importance of notching up points.

Under Davies, the Scarlets, while appearing razor-sharp in attack at their best, have remained woefully inconsistant. Ultimately and cruelly for Davies fans, they have yet to threaten a major title, be it in Europe or the Pro 12 in the three attempts ND has had. For me, it's that stat that is more decisive than some would think when considering a coach fit for national duties. Hopefully Davies and the Scarlets can win silverware and prove me wrong by the end of the season.

If we want to continue on from the grounds Gatland has set out for us, Davies isn't the man for the job. I'd consider him for an assistant role but that's the very furthest I would go, Nige lacks the leadership quality for the top job.

Knowsit17 wrote:Ultimately and cruelly for Davies fans, they have yet to threaten a major title, be it in Europe or the Pro 12 in the three attempts ND has had. For me, it's that stat that is more decisive than some would think when considering a coach fit for national duties.

That's very unfair considering that when Nigel came in we were a region in a shocking mess and deeply in debt and he's overseen a huge rebuilding phase with little funds and had to rely on a very young and very small squad of players - and he's only now coming out of it.

I would have been amazed at any coach challenging the likes of the Ospreys, Leinster, Munster or Toulouse with those challenges.

I voted yes.

its 4 years away and we will see what he can do by then but I see no reason why not.

I too would like to see a Welsh coach next time and surely that has to come from the Regions, so is there anyone else really?

I would have preferred to have seen Howley just get 2 years and then bring in Nigel to work alongside Gatts after that for the following 2 years and then take over.

As Priest says, 2 years ago most Scarlet fans were hoping to get rid of ND. 4 years is a long time and by then we may be after his head again! Fans are a fickle bunch!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Ultimately and cruelly for Davies fans, they have yet to threaten a major title, be it in Europe or the Pro 12 in the three attempts ND has had. For me, it's that stat that is more decisive than some would think when considering a coach fit for national duties.

That's very unfair considering that when Nigel came in we were a region in a shocking mess and deeply in debt and he's overseen a huge rebuilding phase with little funds and had to rely on a very young and very small squad of players - and he's only now coming out of it.

I would have been amazed at any coach challenging the likes of the Ospreys, Leinster, Munster or Toulouse with those challenges.

I don't really see how funds can be used as an excuse here, funds don't have any effect on a man's will to play once he's on the field and yet the Scarlets remain inconsistant and have fallen short on too many occasions for me to feel comfortable backing Davies. Though I'd have to agree the Scarlets' youth development seems to be flourishing under Nigel.

Still, that's only one aspect of a coach's job. As I've said, I don't think that Davies can hold a candle to people like Gatland and Edwards in terms of leadership and it's that sort of steel we need to strive to replace once they're gone. It's that leadership we lacked before they arrived and therefore appointing Davies as Wales head coach would be a step back imo. I wouldn't rule him out of an assistant role though.

Or he could have won the hc - u never know- im interestd to see where edwards and young are in 4 years

So ur suprised that a coach relying on loads of youngsters who are still developin sometimes struggles against teams chock full of internationals (such as munster and leicester)?
Its strange because their the exact teams id expect a young small squad without depth that is regularly missing its best and most experienced players to internationals to do. Not sure what u expect a bunch of teenagers/young 20 yearolds to do against hc winners

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Or he could have won the hc - u never know- im interestd to see where edwards and young are in 4 years

I like your positive thinking

Well the scarlets are the welsh powerhouses in europe... D

Smirnoffpriest wrote:So ur suprised that a coach relying on loads of youngsters who are still developin sometimes struggles against teams chock full of internationals (such as munster and leicester)?
Its strange because their the exact teams id expect a young small squad without depth that is regularly missing its best and most experienced players to internationals to do. Not sure what u expect a bunch of teenagers/young 20 yearolds to do against hc winners

Victimisation, be it of a coach or a player, loses its appeal when it's been overused or exaggerated beyond proportion. Strictly speaking, Davies hasn't done badly with what he has but there's still little evidence that he'd manage as Wales coach. He failed when Jenkins appointed him and back then he had far more experience to work with, what makes you think he'd succeed in a position that requires even more responsibility than his old role?

I'm happy for Scarlets, I really am, but their successes are too rare and their failures more common for me to give Davies my undying approval as easily as you have.

And for the third time, I don't think he has the leadership to lead any major side successfully.

Agree with you from earlier Subsbench, people are extremely fickle. One extremity or the other, either somebody's scrap or they're the best in the world, that's how we view most coaches/players

Knowsit, there is no middle ground for a Welsh rugby supporter, unfortunately we are often too quick to come to the conclusion that somebody should be dropped. When we stick with someone, coach or player, they often prove us wrong (even Huw Bennett, although I expect that to be just temporary and his normal poor performances to resume shortly!).

As previously mentioned,our tendency to parochialism would make me inclined to have a non-Welsh fella in charge.Selection and non-selection of players should be as dispassionate as possible.A non-Welsh coach hasnt got this baggage with which to deal.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:So ur suprised that a coach relying on loads of youngsters who are still developin sometimes struggles against teams chock full of internationals (such as munster and leicester)?
Its strange because their the exact teams id expect a young small squad without depth that is regularly missing its best and most experienced players to internationals to do. Not sure what u expect a bunch of teenagers/young 20 yearolds to do against hc winners

Victimisation, be it of a coach or a player, loses its appeal when it's been overused or exaggerated beyond proportion. Strictly speaking, Davies hasn't done badly with what he has but there's still little evidence that he'd manage as Wales coach. He failed when Jenkins appointed him and back then he had far more experience to work with, what makes you think he'd succeed in a position that requires even more responsibility than his old role?

I'm happy for Scarlets, I really am, but their successes are too rare and their failures more common for me to give Davies my undying approval as easily as you have.

And for the third time, I don't think he has the leadership to lead any major side successfully.

Agree with you from earlier Subsbench, people are extremely fickle. One extremity or the other, either somebody's scrap or they're the best in the world, that's how we view most coaches/players

Knowsit - you say N Davies is a poor coach and that he should be doing much better - I merely defend him and ask how much better you expect him to do while rebuilding a side on a shoe-string budget and you accuse me of over-exaggerating, victimisation and overusing exuses - but at the same time after saying Nigel is a poor coach you say he hasn't done a bad job.

I also never said he should be Wales coach, particularly not at this time - I voted no and agreed with Subsbench that a huge amount can change in 4 years and we don't know if he'll stay the same become an amazingly successful coach or become terrible in that time (or even all 3 at different periods) - yet you seem to indicate that I'm putting Nige forward to become Wales coach tomorrow, when all I'm saying is that with the resources available I think he (and Gareth J) have done a decent job at PYS

TycroesOsprey wrote:Ive always had a lot of respect of Davies as an attack coach, when he was with Wales we still scored tries and were dangerous in attack even if our gameplan was out of date and the camp was riven by discord with team organisation was a mess. (Yes Im looking at you Gareth Jenkins )

If he is to be coach of Wales we need a very good forwards specialist to compliment him, not McByde or a scarlets old boys reunion as was the case in 2007.

Tycroes, I happen to find myself in agreement with everything you say today.

western osprey you are a bit of a muppet mind. Is there a bandwagon you don't jump on? Nige has shown that he is good at starting from scratch with minimal resources and building a competitve time. Yes the team has an impressive attack rate which we love in Wales. He has put faith in the ones he believed in, not many of us had faith yet look at the number of internationals now down at the Scarlets with a few more set to come through. I never thought Maule would become a European class centre after struggling to break into the Dragons team. So yes, so far, all the qualities of a good coach. But, what has he achieved yet apart from find a few gems? Yes we recognise his hard work but it is a results based arena. If Nige brings home the Heineken Cup and some other trophies in the next 4 years he will find himself coasting into the position of Wales coach.

Smirnoff, my apologies for the hostile edge to my last post.

However I'd have to disagree, I didn't actually refer to Davies as a "poor coach". I said that imo he lacks the leadership to be effective in the top job, which I'm sure you'll agree is different from calling him poor which I didn't. I also said he's done well with what he has. However, I'd rather we didn't play the waiting game and start from scratch again once Gatland's time is over, his successor should be someone who can carry on from where he leaves off. All this combined is why I'd sooner have Davies in an assistant role than as head coach...

Of course if Davies shows from now on that he can back up the supposed progression with silverware then I'll give him fair consideration. But if there's another candidate in the frame when the time comes with a more proven success rate then I'll back him instead.

No. Bugger off!

westernosprey wrote:Gatts, Edz, Howlz n Jinks

Oh dear oh dear!

Knowsit - it's ok but your posts do seem overly negative on Nigel Davies - which is the only thing I was taking umbrage - I agree that I wouldn't put Nige foward for Wales coach at this minute and like you don't think he has the leadership qualities to qwell all the big egos and player power in the Welsh camp. But I don't think you can say he def shouldn't be Wales coach in 2015 as anything could happen between now and then, he's got time to flourish into an amazing coach or crumble into an unknown who won't manage a region again.

You make a good point about him being an assistant as I think he could fulfill that role very well - though it might be preferable to employ an assistant with a view of taking over at the end of Gats reign - and I'd rather Nige continue to improve with the Scarlets.

I also think it's a bit unrealistic to expect Nige to get a team which is only know coming out of a rebuilding phase and have no major star buys, especially foreigners - to not only challenge for the title but be a failure unless he wins a trophy.

In 2 seasons then definately I will have expected them to challenge and hopefully win the Pro 12, but before then will be a bonus - we also need to regain a decent seeding in the HC to stand a chance of making decent progress - but it shows how much progress has been made in that we went 3 years without a HC win and now Nige has led us to back to back wins against L Irish who were top of the league, won away to Northampton, beaten 2 French teams at home and almost qualified twice.

Anyone want an opinion from a totally unbiased scarlets fan?

Honestly, I think Nige has done well in his coaching career overall. He always did have a good rugby brain - I liked him a lot as a player. Lots has been said about that Jenkins era with Wales. I think both coaches came in for a lot of stick unfairly. Honest opinion - Jenkins got the job 10 years too late and let his heart rule his head. Would anyone like to come in and take charge of a team that had only just mutinied against the last coach? Was never going to work from the start. Shame as he was a much better coach than that period suggests (also gave the anti-scarlet brigade a chance to crucify him).

As for Nige, he's certainly learned. He's become his own man. He's made the best of the youth policy at PYS and even in the darkest days masterminded some cracking results - L.Irish springs to mind. The Scarlets are still far from the finished product and are probably about 4 class forwards away from being a top notch team, but considering from where they came .... quite some achievement.

I remember all the whinning about Nige - most of it came from non-Scarlet fans as I recall. Most of the Scarlet fans I know of said give him time, giving the squad the broom and bringing through the youth is a long term plan and not a bad idea. It was tough ... Nige himself got pretty peed off after some matches (some interesting TV!) but he's given places to hungry hard working lads and in true scarlet tradition, brought out the best in them and forged a team (remember that Spencer John, Emyr Lewis, Gwyn Jones?).

Whatever you think about Nige being the next welsh coach (I abstained as I honestly think we need to see what happens by 2015) it is seriously shortsighted/ignorant/biased to slate a guy who has been part of some of the best regional rugby to come out of Wales off the back of a rebellious bunch of prima donnas who ended up looking like a bunch of chumps (funny how Gipo always gets the blame and never the players who told him to go rotate) when the chips were down.

I know not all fans are that dull, but I've seen so much horse manure bandied about by some folks in Wales it's unreal.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Anyone want an opinion from a totally unbiased scarlets fan?

Honestly, I think Nige has done well in his coaching career overall. He always did have a good rugby brain - I liked him a lot as a player. Lots has been said about that Jenkins era with Wales. I think both coaches came in for a lot of stick unfairly. Honest opinion - Jenkins got the job 10 years too late and let his heart rule his head. Would anyone like to come in and take charge of a team that had only just mutinied against the last coach? Was never going to work from the start. Shame as he was a much better coach than that period suggests (also gave the anti-scarlet brigade a chance to crucify him).

As for Nige, he's certainly learned. He's become his own man. He's made the best of the youth policy at PYS and even in the darkest days masterminded some cracking results - L.Irish springs to mind. The Scarlets are still far from the finished product and are probably about 4 class forwards away from being a top notch team, but considering from where they came .... quite some achievement.

I remember all the whinning about Nige - most of it came from non-Scarlet fans as I recall. Most of the Scarlet fans I know of said give him time, giving the squad the broom and bringing through the youth is a long term plan and not a bad idea. It was tough ... Nige himself got pretty peed off after some matches (some interesting TV!) but he's given places to hungry hard working lads and in true scarlet tradition, brought out the best in them and forged a team (remember that Spencer John, Emyr Lewis, Gwyn Jones?).

Whatever you think about Nige being the next welsh coach (I abstained as I honestly think we need to see what happens by 2015) it is seriously shortsighted/ignorant/biased to slate a guy who has been part of some of the best regional rugby to come out of Wales off the back of a rebellious bunch of prima donnas who ended up looking like a bunch of chumps (funny how Gipo always gets the blame and never the players who told him to go rotate) when the chips were down.

I know not all fans are that dull, but I've seen so much horse manure bandied about by some folks in Wales it's unreal.

I agree.

I have been unsurprisingly impressed with how Nigel Davies has performed as a coach. He was a talented and thoughtful player, always looked like he would make a good coach.

With another four years learning at the Scarlets he could be the right man.

No. He hasn't got the voice for it. He's not a main man, he's a talented assistant. Now if you wanted Lyn Jones as head coach with Nigel as backs coach and Feek as a forwards coach, I'd snap your hand off.

Glas a du wrote:No. He hasn't got the voice for it. He's not a main man, he's a talented assistant. Now if you wanted Lyn Jones as head coach with Nigel as backs coach and Feek as a forwards coach, I'd snap your hand off.

Lyn Jones ? Really...? He is possibly the worst suggestion as a comparison to what you just said about Davies above... Might as well get Lyns protege Sean Holly involved?

Glas a du wrote:No. He hasn't got the voice for it. He's not a main man, he's a talented assistant. Now if you wanted Lyn Jones as head coach with Nigel as backs coach and Feek as a forwards coach, I'd snap your hand off.

I would love that as a coaching lineup but the WRU will never go for Lyn.

On TBS spirited defence of Jenkins, yes the players were a mutnous bunch in 06-07 but Jenkins made mistakes in selection, planning, gameplan that was out of date, inexperienced coaches esp defence (Although I think Phillips is coming good as a coach again). His media management was naive, his team preperation was substandard, performances were inept. That led to a winning percentage of 30% whilst Gippo was in charge.

He was out of his depth right from the start and it showed. My god we lost to fiji in the world cup and it shattered our confidence. It was as bad as the darkest days of Ron Waldrons Wales and whilst the players must bear some responsibility for their behaviour look how quickly they came good with a bit of discipline, a couple of players dropped and Alfie retired.

Jenkins is a rugby man through and through and Im not suprised he is identifying real talent for the turks its the kind of job suited to his skills. As Wales coach he was a disaster who created even more cliques in the team with his amatuer standards. We had a set of very very good players in 05-08 a team that won two grand slams, in between we had Gareth Jenkins.

maestegmafia wrote:

Glas a du wrote:No. He hasn't got the voice for it. He's not a main man, he's a talented assistant. Now if you wanted Lyn Jones as head coach with Nigel as backs coach and Feek as a forwards coach, I'd snap your hand off.

Lyn Jones ? Really...? He is possibly the worst suggestion as a comparison to what you just said about Davies above... Might as well get Lyns protege Sean Holly involved?

Lyns assassin dont you mean?

Honestly Lyn would be an excellent choice as a welsh head coach and I actually think with Davies alongside him it would be a team that complimented each other.(If they got on)

Look at Lyns impact when he went to the dragons for a few months as a consultant to help out there was a dramatic increase in their forwards effectivness.

But he is a bit of a loose canon and the WRU would never give him the chance.

Coaches come in and out of favour. When their team is winning they are gods, when it is losing they are scum of the earth. Add in to this teh fact that sports fans are at times manic depressives swinging wildly between blind optimism to a deep dark pessimism it is a surprise any international coach lasts beyond one major tournament.

In this last 4 year cycle we saw:

Half NZ fans demanding Henry and team be sacked post 2007
Marc Lieveremont hailed as visionary when France won the 2010 GS
Non Munster Irish fans calling for Kidney's head when 6N and pre world cup warm ups.
Welsh fans and press demanding Gatlands resignation and deriding the "typewriter" attacking plan of Robert Howley
Andy Robinson veering between the messiah who led Scotland to wins in a~rgentina and over Aus/SA and a ***** English ****** wno has ruined Scottish rugby.

Hell even Martin Johnson was being parised by most english fans and press for about 9 months or so.

About the only constant has been the derision aimed at PdV.

2015 is a long way away, so who knows who the front runners will be for the Wales job come then - certainly Nigel Davies is a contender.


Actually scrub that - apparently Sean Holley has signed a pre-contract with the WRU.

LT...!

Sean Holley would likely be mobbed and hung in the Streets of Cardiff should he get that close to a WRU contract...!

maestegmafia wrote:LT...!

Sean Holley would likely be mobbed and hung in the Streets of Cardiff should he get that close to a WRU contract...!

Maybe it would be a good idea to offer the contract to him - make sure he can't do no more damage!

TycroesOsprey wrote:On TBS spirited defence of Jenkins, yes the players were a mutnous bunch in 06-07 but Jenkins made mistakes in selection, planning, gameplan that was out of date, inexperienced coaches esp defence (Although I think Phillips is coming good as a coach again). His media management was naive, his team preperation was substandard, performances were inept. That led to a winning percentage of 30% whilst Gippo was in charge.

He was out of his depth right from the start and it showed. My god we lost to fiji in the world cup and it shattered our confidence. It was as bad as the darkest days of Ron Waldrons Wales and whilst the players must bear some responsibility for their behaviour look how quickly they came good with a bit of discipline, a couple of players dropped and Alfie retired.

Jenkins is a rugby man through and through and Im not suprised he is identifying real talent for the turks its the kind of job suited to his skills. As Wales coach he was a disaster who created even more cliques in the team with his amatuer standards. We had a set of very very good players in 05-08 a team that won two grand slams, in between we had Gareth Jenkins.

Sorry, but it was never as bad as the Waldron days. I lived through that and that was the lowest we ever went (remember the Oz tour?).

Isn't it funny that Gipo gets pinged by fans on things like selection, tactics and so on but look at our current encumbent. Gareth "Hobbit" Williams, Gareth Cooper, endless up and unders, two seasons with a 30% win rate. One belated epiphany on giving youth it's head (Jenkins and Davies well ahead of you there Warren) later and we come withing one shameful referee of a world cup final and Gatland is the best thing since sliced bread.

Sorry but Gipo gets slated and I've seen fans completely rubbish him and as far as I'm concerned those fans are rugby idiots. We fans do not know what exactly goes on behind closed doors and I am not about to defend his record as welsh coach, which to be fair was very poor. However I can't stand by when people completely slate him. He wasn't everyone's cup of tea but he had great success with Llanelli and the Scarlets and doesn't deserve the mindless derision thrown at him by various "fans."

Best of all though and this is the most satisfying part. These so called fans can only dream of achieving what Jenkins has in his career. So if anyone wants to write him off completely, come back to speak to me when you've been in a team that beat the all blacks, coached your club to victory over the world champions and taken your team to a few european semi finals. Right now he's part of a scouting setup that's unearthed some of the best talent we've seen in wales in many a year.

What precisely have you naysayers done in rugby?

well said TBS

Im not knocking what he did for the scarlets or continues to do, but I think his record as Wales coach speaks for itself really doesnt it? Im not pinning all the blame on him for the failures of his tenure but his failure was the single most important factor.

We didnt get hammered 62-5 by England under waldron, but I take your point they were awful times. Even so Jenkins record in charge is the worst of any coach in the modern era for Wales. What he did with teh scarlets is immaterial when its the welsh job were discussing and there he failed badly.

Jenkins' reign as Welsh coach is up there among the darkest periods Wales has had to suffer. You could try and sugar-coat it with all your might and yet the ghost of the feeling of utter embarrassment, shame and disbelief we had to live with under Jenkins looms on and will forever ensure my gratitude that he'll never again be associated with a top position within the national side. He isn't of that quality, simple as. If the depths we plummeted to at the time don't convince you of that, I don't know what will.

Just to quickly sum up the extent of the damage Chumpkins as head coach caused:

-Lowest IRB ranking in Welsh Rugby history (10th)
-Biggest ever defeat to England (62-5)
-Defeats to Scotland and Italy coupled with worst Six Nations since 2003 (5th with one win, barely avoiding the Wooden Spoon)
-First and only defeat to Fiji
-Stubborn insistance on retaining Stephen Jones as skipper despite not a single win with the latter sporting the armband
-Delusional philosophy of performance over result, basically sending out the message that it didn't matter whether Wales won or lost as long as they played pretty rugby
-Some truly senseless selections at crucial times, namely the ordinary likes of Will James being called up for the RWC and resting 14-16 first choice players for the summer tour and opening RWC warm-up (you guessed it, 62-5 at Twickenham as a result)

As demonstrated by the total lack of direction in the squad at the time, Jenkins does not have the leadership to coach a successful int'l side, imo he shouldn't have been allowed into the frame to begin with due to his unremarkable record with the Scarlets beforehand. This is why I doubt Davies has it in him to make it to anything higher than assistant coach as he's much the same type as Jenkins. Poor decision-making along with a regime that, while hailed as good, does not resemble high ambition and has yet to be proven as producing any successful long term results...

To be honest it would be good to see a Welshman as coach 2015 onwards. And i'd much prefer to see Nigel Davies there instead of Dai Young. Other welsh coaches doing quite well; Darren Edwards at the Dragons and Kingsley Jones now Russian head coach could be there abouts

Where did you get your name from GoWales?

Sorry who is Nigel Davies? What has he won? Can anyone summarise who he is and what he has achieved?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/4858748.stm

This is the Welsh record of all your coaches. Mike Ruddock did well.

Why WUM besocked?

Smirnoff I am not. I genuinely don't know who he is.I always like to find out more information. I am interested to know why some Welsh fans want him as Welsh coach.

I know he is Scarlets Coach but that's it. My Celtic League knowledge and knowledge of Nigel Davies himself is not great. If you can give me a bit of background of his career I would appreciate it. Why he would make a good candidate? What has he done?

He's been caretaker coach of Wales before beshocked (after the fuss of sacking Gareth Jenkins). But other then that he's learnt his trade through the Scarlets, and we're finally starting to see the benefits of his hard work.

I think 2015 would be too soon for him, personally, but he's not the worst candidate around.

Apologies beshocked but I thought you might have heard about him during the Jenkins Wales reign, and he has more experience than a few international coaches - not least Johnson.

He also had a pretty good Welsh career and was a good centre for the Scarlets - and was a fellow Stradey boy as well, which I didn't know (that's a Welsh school by Stradey Park beshocked)

Ok smirnoff I did a little research.

Looks like Nigel Davies has some experience as assistant coach of Wales when Gareth Jenkins was in charge.

He has been Scarlets coach since 2008.

Has helped with the development of North,Priestland,Stoddart and Morgan. With the first two having an excellent rugby world cup with Wales.

A fair summary?

He might have experience but I personally feel that he needs to notch up a trophy before being a candidate to the Welsh job in my opinion. Even the LV will do. Scarlets have some good youngsters but you can't rush someone in before they are ready. Same reason I don't want Mallinder for England yet till he wins a trophy of true value.

I feel in general the best coaches to take Wales forward are foreign. Probably the same with England too.

Any good potential Welsh coaches in the pipeline who might throw their hat in the ring?

Oh and another reason why foreign coaches can be generally seen as better is that they have no inbuilt bias or history with the rugby union in question.

Always nice to get a fresh approach.

beshocked wrote:Oh and another reason why foreign coaches can be generally seen as better is that they have no inbuilt bias or history with the rugby union in question.

Always nice to get a fresh approach.

Couldn't agree more with that - I think it's been one of Wales' biggest problems.

Also agree that Nigel would need to continue to improve a lot by 2015 to even be considered - but like you say would more than likely need a trophy. The problem being Dai Young won a trophy and 2 years later isn't even talked about and is seen as terrible - you could say that winning a trophy isn't everything, but I suppose you could say Nige is currently basking in the reflected success of the Scarlets Welsh Int youngsters - namely Priestland and North, with some help from JD2, Stoddart & S Williams - who knows what will happen by 2015 or even next year.

But I'm hopeful that the Scarlets will finish somewhere between 3rd and 7th this season and will improve next season, and as long as they can continue to grow the crowds then the team should get better and better - though Nigel would prob be better waiting till whoever takes over from Gats has quit before chucking his name in the hat

Also apologies for being short with you - just been reading a lot of Welsh/English wumming on a few other threads (from both sides) and it gets tired very fast - so I must have unconciously decided to jump at the 1st (unwarrented/innocent) target that presented itself.

To be fair smirnoffpriest I do occasionally wind up people. I think everyone can occasionally get on each other's nerves.

I have an interest in various topics.

To be fair to Dai Young he did well with Cardiff Blues particularly in two seasons - once when they reached the semis of the HC and got agonisingly close to the final and winning the Amlin against Toulon in France. It's tailed off a bit.

We'll see how good he is if he can turn Wasps around.

Scarlets ideally need to reach at least the quarters in the HC IMO and target the playoffs of the Celtic League.

I'm really hopeful that Dai Young can do well for Wasps - 1. Because we need as many Welsh coaches doing well in the game as possible (especially outside the goldfish bowl of Welsh rugby) and 2. It seems strange that Wasps aren't competing at the top of English rugby.

To be fair to Nige and the Scarlets they/we have been rebuilding for the last 2 years and were in a big mess before that - we went 3(?) seasons without winning a HEC game - which considering we'd got to 2 semi's in recent time before that is bad, and we have turned it around to have just missed out on qualification and got some decent scalps in the last 2 years - but the testing time for Nige will be the next 3 seasons, if he can consistently get into the Play-offs from next season and if he can continue to improve our seeding in Europe to get a better group and qualify, and hopefully this season or next do a Blues in the Amlin...

TycroesOsprey wrote:Im not knocking what he did for the scarlets or continues to do, but I think his record as Wales coach speaks for itself really doesnt it? Im not pinning all the blame on him for the failures of his tenure but his failure was the single most important factor.

We didnt get hammered 62-5 by England under waldron, but I take your point they were awful times. Even so Jenkins record in charge is the worst of any coach in the modern era for Wales. What he did with teh scarlets is immaterial when its the welsh job were discussing and there he failed badly.

Fair comment, no complaints on that Tycroes, I can only add in mitigation that the players didn't play well either and must take some of the blame. Like I've said before, I've been a critic of Jenkins but I do insist on fair play.

Knowsit - if you think his record as Llanelli/Scarlets coach is unremarkable then you're either blind, deaf or a recent alien visitor to the planet.



Right, that's all I have to say about Gipo, back to Nige - yup, I agree with what most people are saying. He's got a lot to prove in the next 4 years if he's to be considered, but there are worse choices ... indeed!