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Waiting List
1. pullthestrings
2. Bathite

Did anyone see the piece on the rugby club the other week about Sarries in which they don't actually have a first reciever it's just usually the first back to pop up in the position? Gives them so many options in attack without Barritt at 12 they struggle. Farrel may have spent his main career at 12 but this year his playing 13

I think Farrell has a huge future ahead of him but he is not ready for Int rugby. I also think he's very much a 10.

I wasnt being patronising Pooly, just that rugby is very different to watching it live than on tv as you get to see how a player positions himself and what control etc he has on a game.

I've been lucky to watch Farrell play 3x live this year and he's very good and certainly ready to play for England as we don't have any outstanding talents for the 12 shirt - he's just as ready as Barritt or JTH - just look at how he took over the 10 shirt for Sarries last year, not many 20 year olds could slot into a position he had barely played before and do it so well.

I've copied out what Hodgson has said about Farrell below - sums him up very well, got potential to play for England and I would be very surprised if he doesnt line up for England at 12 come 6Nations.

"When I came here (Saracens director of rugby) Mark McCall talked to me about passing on advice to him but the more time I have spent with him the more I have realised that he probably doesn't need to listen to me that much," Hodgson said.

"He is very mature and you can definitely see his dad in him. You can see the competitive streak in him straight away and he understands the game very well.

"He is not afraid to stand up and say what he thinks. He likes to take control of things, he is very good at feeding information to me during game time.

"He has definitely got the potential to play for England. He doesn't seem to be fazed by anything and seems to be in control of everything he is doing."

I would be very surprised if he did start at 12 for England in the 6N AS HE DOESN'T PLAY THERE FOR HIS CLUB.

I fail to see where Hodgson says he's ready to play 12 for England, just looks like he's saying Farrell has the potential to play International rugby, pretty much what I've been saying today and over the last few weeks.

You surely need to playing regular rugby in a position that your country needs you to play to be selected?!? It's like picking Lawes at 6 or Foden at 9.

I'm a big fan of picking the best player in that position to play there for his country. I think Farrell is probably in the top 4 FH's so I'd pick him in the Saxons or to train with the England squad.

We obviously have different opinions, I can't be bothered arguing anymore tbh.

606 are picking the side to play Scotland, they're usually pretty close tbh. Side so far:

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Attwood
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Easter

9. Youngs
10. Flood
11.
12.
13.
14.
15. Foden (not finished but walking it)

Pooly, it isnt the same with a 13 reverting to 12 - in rugby its probably the easiest positional change going (where as 12 reverting to13 is actually hard).

The Sarries centres don't play tradition inside / outside centre as Farrell often goes and takes the ball at 10 or 12 - this doesnt happen at many clubs at all and Sarries are so good because they are easily the most drilled team in the country (if not Europe) - take a lot of the players on paper and they wouldnt get into say Saints or Tigers first teams, but they work so well together its untrue.

Lot of credit has to go to Venter for putting this in place, such an amazing team spirit there.

Farrell could easily slide in at 12...

Manu hardly made a success of it, if Farrell can't get in at 12 for Sarries he shouldn't be playing there for England. That is my argument and yours is obviously different.

England ideally would want Robshaw to get a run at 8 for Quins and make their picks a lot easier with Croft, Wood and Robshaw in a back row.

England....................................Saxons

1. Alex Corbisero...................... 1. Joe Marler
2. Dylan Hartley (c)....................2. Joe Gray
3. Dan Cole............................... 3. Paul Doran-Jones
4. Louis Deacon........................ 4. Matt Garvey
5. Courtney Lawes................... 5. Christian Day
6. Tom Croft............................. 6. Callum Clark
7. Tom Wood............................ 7. Jamie Gibson
8. Nick Easter........................... 8. Carl Fearns
9. Ben Youngs.......................... 9. Joe Simpson
10. Toby Flood.......................... 10. Freddie Burns
11. Charlie Sharples................. 11. Christian Wade
12. Brad Barrit...........................12. Jordan Turner-Hall
13. Manu Tuilagi........................ 13. Henry Trinder
14. Chris Ashton........................ 14. Tom Biggs
15. Ben Foden........................... 15. Mike Brown (c)

16. Lee Mears............................ 16. David Paice
17. Matt Stevens........................ 17. Matt Mullan
18. Dave Attwood...................... 18. Geoff Parling
19. Chris Robshaw..................... 19. Luke Wallace
20. Lee Dickson.......................... 20. Karl Dickson
21. Owen Farrell......................... 21. Billy Twelvetrees
22. Jonny May............................. 22. George Lowe

Main squad cover (ahead of Saxons) Nick Wood, David Seymour, Danny Care, Charlie Hodgson

My explanation

Forwards - Corbs is the best loosehead currently fit and needs a chance as the first choice after impressive time last 6 Nations. Hartley and Cole pick themselves. Deacon is needed for a bit of grunt and Lawes picks himself. Croft doesn't deserve to be dropped contrary to popular opinion. Wood has been playing very well and has done before for England. Easter is the only option currently playing 8 for my money (I don't think Narraway is at the level needed but this is opinion not fact). Mears I think has the experience to be on the bench despite a lack of form. Stevens is on the bench as he is the best prop for both sides in my book, Attwood could be a good impact player and Robshaw covers all 3 positions in back row and is playing very well in the AP.

Backs

Youngs and Flood get a nod as a combo but Youngs needs to get back to how he was playing for England when he first came onto the seen. Flood will be under massive pressure for his position over the next year or two but is the best candidate atm. 12 is a problem position but Barritt is playing well at the moment but I wouldn't want him long term. Manu picks himself as do Ashton and Foden. Sharples also the best man for the other wing. Gives us two very dangerous wingers. Dickson off the bench offers control and something different to Youngs (doesn't need to be brought on if Youngs doing the job). Owen Farrell can cover 10 and 13 and Jonny May will cover 12, and the back three.

Saxons - the best of the rest mixed with the brightest young talents. Saxons looks very strong.

Pooly, Farrell covers 12 in each game for Sarries, it's their set up and the way they play, he interchanges at 10, 12, 13 - its really clever how they do it and how he works so well with Hodgson and Barritt. He's a natural 12, it is where he has played all his life and his rugby brain is very good for someone so young - I'd want England to try and replicate what Sarries do with Farrell and Tuilagi, Barritt for me doesnt bring as much to the international level.

Tuilagi has played the last two weeks as a 12 for Tigers, the first after a 7 week injury lay off where he showed his rustiness, the second he outplayed Wesley Forfan (whatever his name is), who is arguably the most exciting young centre in Europe. Cant really say he hasnt made a success of it after two games there lol.

Steve would agree with a lot of your choices and can see Lancaster picking pretty much exactly what you have said for the England first team - I'm never sure about Deacon though, there must be a better lock than him around?

Farrell doesn't play 12 for his club so would be against him playing there for England.

Like that team Steve

I would take out Croft for Robshaw, apart from that Steve I like it.
Not convinced by Deacon but not sure if Garvey should be thrown in just yet.

Jonny Wilkinson wasnt playing for Falcons at 12 when England selected him to play there at the start of his international career - that panned out pretty well apparently.

But he did play 10.....not 13.

Removing Croft weakens the lineout too much for me. Wood is decent in the line but after that there isn't another really good jumper without Croft.

Deacon leads the lineout well at Tigers when Parling is out. You definatley need a lineout leader as Lawes doesn't do this although he's becoming a decent option and Woods is exceptional there. Robshaw is a good option as is Easter at the tail, would be a strong lineout.

But he played 12 for England when he started...I dont follow your reasoning? If Farrell is good enough (like Wilko was) then he could easily slot into the 12 shirt for England.

Farrell is comfortable at 10, 12 and now obviously 13 - he takes on first and second receiver a lot for Sarries, he may wear the 13 shirt but he doesnt play 13 in a conventional way, he moves all over their backline slotting in where he wants. Its amazing how vocal he is and he bosses Hodgson all over the place, incredible really for someone who has been a pro rugby player for 2 years.

Steven I agree with you about Croft, even though he isnt in great form he is vital part of the England lineout - think Robshaw will start on the bench as he wont drop Wood.

An interesting view I read in Rugby World was whether Wood could be converted to a no8?

Farrell looks a huge prospect but is behind Hodgson & Barritt at his club at 10/12. Why would he be good enough for England here if he isn't at his club?

Farrell plays 13 so I wouldn't look at playing him 12 for England.

think we've discussed Farrell enough today!

You're telling me! Let's leave it eh, I think he needs nurturing and you want him to start.

I've zero interest in your opinion and you have the same with mine, let's agree to disagree.

Steven_Sharks wrote:England....................................Saxons

1. Alex Corbisero...................... 1. Joe Marler
2. Dylan Hartley (c)....................2. Joe Gray
3. Dan Cole............................... 3. Paul Doran-Jones
4. Louis Deacon........................ 4. Matt Garvey
5. Courtney Lawes................... 5. Christian Day
6. Tom Croft............................. 6. Callum Clark
7. Tom Wood............................ 7. Jamie Gibson
8. Nick Easter........................... 8. Carl Fearns
9. Ben Youngs.......................... 9. Joe Simpson
10. Toby Flood.......................... 10. Freddie Burns
11. Charlie Sharples................. 11. Christian Wade
12. Brad Barrit...........................12. Jordan Turner-Hall
13. Manu Tuilagi........................ 13. Henry Trinder
14. Chris Ashton........................ 14. Tom Biggs
15. Ben Foden........................... 15. Mike Brown (c)

16. Lee Mears............................ 16. David Paice
17. Matt Stevens........................ 17. Matt Mullan
18. Dave Attwood...................... 18. Geoff Parling
19. Chris Robshaw..................... 19. Luke Wallace
20. Lee Dickson.......................... 20. Karl Dickson
21. Owen Farrell......................... 21. Billy Twelvetrees
22. Jonny May............................. 22. George Lowe

Main squad cover (ahead of Saxons) Nick Wood, David Seymour, Danny Care, Charlie Hodgson

My explanation

Forwards - Corbs is the best loosehead currently fit and needs a chance as the first choice after impressive time last 6 Nations. Hartley and Cole pick themselves. Deacon is needed for a bit of grunt and Lawes picks himself. Croft doesn't deserve to be dropped contrary to popular opinion. Wood has been playing very well and has done before for England. Easter is the only option currently playing 8 for my money (I don't think Narraway is at the level needed but this is opinion not fact). Mears I think has the experience to be on the bench despite a lack of form. Stevens is on the bench as he is the best prop for both sides in my book, Attwood could be a good impact player and Robshaw covers all 3 positions in back row and is playing very well in the AP.

Backs

Youngs and Flood get a nod as a combo but Youngs needs to get back to how he was playing for England when he first came onto the seen. Flood will be under massive pressure for his position over the next year or two but is the best candidate atm. 12 is a problem position but Barritt is playing well at the moment but I wouldn't want him long term. Manu picks himself as do Ashton and Foden. Sharples also the best man for the other wing. Gives us two very dangerous wingers. Dickson off the bench offers control and something different to Youngs (doesn't need to be brought on if Youngs doing the job). Owen Farrell can cover 10 and 13 and Jonny May will cover 12, and the back three.

Saxons - the best of the rest mixed with the brightest young talents. Saxons looks very strong.

No robson ?????? Also mullan should be in Saxons

Just spotted mullan?!

I forgot about Robson. I'd have him swapped with Attwood but Attwood still in the Main squad rather than Saxons.

We
Have
Better players
Than Biggs but a good lineup Steve. Burns millions of miles away unfortunately. I believe in him but he is dreadful currently. Hope he gets back to form
And develops

We
Have
Better players
Than Biggs but a good lineup Steve. Burns millions of miles away unfortunately. I believe in him but he is dreadful currently. Hope he gets back to form
And develops

I really like Biggs, is a very natural finisher and I think he should get a chance at least as I don't remember him getting a chance before.

how old is Biggs and in a full strength Bath team is he a first team starter as imagine their best midfield is Donald, Barkley, Hipkiss with Banahan on one wing and Abendenan at 15 - would Carraro be starting if fit?

For good reason I think.....

Ojo, Benjamin, Short, Strettle, Monye....

Forgot about Short. I don't think Strettle and Monye have an England future at the present time. Form can change things but I'd be surprised. Just a value judgement on Ojo, Biggs and Benjamin for me.

I've been impressed with Benjamin this season hes a serious unit, great defence and Monye is looking back to good nick (big fan too). Think Ojo is streets ahead of Biggs myself but fair point.

Carraro one of best backs in prem. serious talent

You had a go at me for saying Dowson had class then say Matt Carraro is one of the best backs in the prem! Shame on you Matt! (Thought he was Aus?)

He is Aussie just very very good. Wish he was a glos player. Top top player

Casson has looked steady for you, got a good all round game, solid defence. Reminds me a little of Eves except Eves seems to have traded all of his god born talent for some beans or something, no idea what's happened to him over the years.

I signed carraro and no one rates him but think he is top. Casson good but I have too Many centres. Fancy Fofana in foreigns also

Yea must admit I don't think Carraro is anything special, decent AP player. Wrong team for any back to shine at really they've been dire.

Been injured most season but last year was excellent. Like salvi Australia a moved away. Salvi top player also

salvi is a good player but a penalty machine
carraro decent nothing special

benjamin is very strong and good defender, would score more tries in a better side.

Nick both glos and Irish would be better with salvi

Benjamin ok no kIcking game and not an instinctive attacker. Good club player

Rumours Benjamin going to Tigers along with Mullen. Both would be great there

not denying that matt but he gives away so many penalties.
would have steff back over him in a second.

benjamin is a strong runner but similar to varndell in some respects, just a better defender

Benjamin is built like an outhouse, huge boot on him. Tigers would really bring him on to next level, not Int quality yet but pretty young.

Mullen similar, class act

Well
Said nick varndell and benjamin very similar. Not naturals but have a lot
To offer. Benjamin had a huge boot where
It goes is the issue.

Good defender one on one is Benjamin. Mullan is looking really tasty and in terms of
Looking forward would have him
In England side despite nick wood being best loose head I'm
England on form.

Mullan looks more likely that corbs for me
As long term. England job so appealing we have talent to burn. Loosehead corbs, wood , lahiff, mullan, stevens imolek etc etc

Should have said mullan in squad not team

Loosehead has suddenly became a great position, you forgot Waller! I'm a big Mullen fan, think he could overtake Corbs during WC, solid scrummager and great in loose.

Lahiff & Waller look cracking prospects too

i think lahiff could be better than corbs in a couple of years.
think wood deserves a chance now though. corbs does better for england than irish.

Marler?

Waller looks good will take him a while as he is 3rd choice at saints but looks good left out Marler as well who I think is a legend on making.

Currently would have corbs, wood , Marler but a position of depth

Marler so
Exciting and have tried to buy him from Steve a million times